JagsawSingh

I mean seriously can you still not understand how the millionaiire £70,000 Audi driving Afghan Sikhs of Southall and Hayes are the sons, daughters, nephews and neices of those left behind in afghanistan ?

You do realise that Afghan Sikhs in England are the kith and kin....i,e the brothers, cousins and nephews of those Afghan sikhs left behind in afghanistan, right? I mean you do realise the vampire community sucking the blood of the established working class sikh community of west London right now are the people that arrived as political refugees 10-15 years ago and are the the nephews, neices, cousins, sons and daughetrs of the Sikhs in Afghanistan suffering right now? I mean you do realise that don't you I mean you do realise, don't you, that you should be asking them why they are marrying their first cousns out of habit, living the life of millionaiires, keeping kesh whilst the wife is booted and shooted out of a beauty parlour like a Jersey mobster's moll, dressing themselves in expensive armani jeans modelled on michael jackson videos while their left behind poorer uncle and aunties suffer back home ? No ? Do you not think you should be asking them this? Or is it smply a case of you not knowing who they are......how they got here a few years ago.....how they make up the majority of cases at Islewortth Crown Court with their endemic money making illegal and immoral scams.... how they hve made all of west london look upon Sikhs as greedy money making criminals with scams.......and thus you are surplus to this conversation?

Its not as simple as that. For a religion to survive it must have a code of conduct and if a follower of that faith has a internal spiritual wish to be part of the faith he must abide. Otherwise there is chaos. Right now in our Sikh qoum we have chaos. Thats why we are the only major religion on earth without a homeland. Exactly. I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gave some moments ago. Brother. In that one sentence you broke down my problem in its entirety. I WANT to share a plate with the poor. My heart desires it. I didn't always want to. In fact I used to want to set fire to the homeless and kick them while they burn. It was by learning about the way my 10 Gurus lived their lives that I changed me way of thinking. It was by learning that my Gurus would break bread with the poor man rather than the rich kings and emporers that my Sikhi was born. I don't know. I'm not a doctor. I am a human being though. Therefore, I don't approach his food with the mindset that he is one of the 0000.0% that spits in his food.

Yes. WE must help the Afghan Sikh community. The 30,000 Afghan Sikh community of west london around Southall and Hayes is way too busy polishing their $100,000 cars and paying lawyers to keep them out of jail for their multi-million dollar counterfieit commodities arrests the local west london newspapers have been regularly full of the last few years. As if they haven't got enough to spend on lawyers and designer clothes lets not forget they have $20 million to spend on the brand new 'Afghan' gurdwara exactly opposite....exactly 100 yards the already too big....already too expensive...$35 million gurdwara in Southall. No. Lets not expect these people to help. Lets ask our ordinary hard-working, factory working, working class Sikhs of London, Toronto and Vancouver to dig deep even in hard times.

Yes. All parcharaks are 'professional Sikhs' in that they do sikhi for a living (a damn fine living) while the plebs like you and me struggle for spiritualness.

I thought Jugraj Singh's (of Basics of Sikhi fame) white wife makes her living writing books for Sikh children 5 -- 15 ? No ?

As some of you may already know I am a bit of a film buff. Am absolutely in love with celluloid. The one movie I would recommend for all Sikhs because of its profound deeper message is the Kazakh/Mongolian epic blockbuster 'Myn Bala'. It's story resonates so well with us Sikhs. Imagine for one moment Braveheart, but with a much higher budget, much more action, much better acting. The result is Myn Bala. A truly epic movie. Like we Sikhs the 'minority' were persecuted and so had to live in the forests with a price on their head. Like we Sikhs, they used that time to learn the art of warfare and become masters of the horse. They then emerged from the mountains and forests and not only took back their lands but became masters of their nation. The answers that the OP of this thread craves are in that film, even though it is in fact the descendants of the Mongolians who are the villians and the Kazhaks the heroes of the film. I know the Russian made epic 'Mongol' gets all the acclaim (and rightly so because it is awesome) but guys, take it from me, one who knows his movies. This one stands alongside epic Kurosawa movies such as Ran and Kagemusha. Like I said at the beginning, imagine Braveheart but with a much much bigger budget and much much better acting. The result...is Mynn Bala. One of the greatest action movies ever made and every bit of it resonates with us Sikhs.

Very nice. Although they're not actually on the great wall of china are they ? The great wall of china is about a half mile behind them.

Your dirty filthy mind sees things in a dirty filthy way because it will do and say anything to convince yourself you are right in believing the urban Sikhs are good and the rural Sikhs are backward. The foundation of your pathetic thought process is 'Casteism' itself and yet you have the nerve to call the rural folk 'casteist'. Lets break this down plain and simple: What has generated from the pends is a hard-working Sikh ethic. A work ethic that includes females. A work ethic that the whole world knows as the 'Sikh Work Ethic'. What has originated in the towns and cities of Punjab is a Sikhism that is mixed up with Hinduism. A Sikhism where the Sikhs celebrated Hindu rituals...do things like puja to photographs of dead relatives....prefer to talk Hindi rather than Punjabi etc. And yet here you are calling the rural folk 'backward' ? As for 'drugs'. Do ou actually know anything about Punjab ? The cities and towns are where the Heroin and Cocaine problem is at its worst. Your enthusiam for blaming all ills on the rural folk is what gives you away as the resident muppet on this forum dallysingh101.

Hope the filthy scum get raped in jail. Perphaps they can spend their time in jail thinking about who God truly is because up until now their true god was clearly money.

Sorry guys if I'm about to write something a little bit off-topic but everytime I log on to Sikhsangat.com I see an advert on the top about baby safety and I think this is the most apt thread because its more a question for all Sikh women. The advert lists 3 golden rules for baby safety and rule number 1 says 'Baby MUST sleep alone'. Just wandering what the thoughts of Sikh women are on this because when my children were born the nurses said the baby should sleep alone and both me and the wife told them to get lost. For us, and our culture, forcing a baby to sleep on its own away from its mother is exactly the same as putting it outside on the doorstep at night like people do with cats. I know its not just a Sikh thing because virtually every single human group on planet earth except white northern Europeans (and their off-spring in north america and australia) keep baby with mother for sleep. The advert itself is from the New York health authority but 100% of the health authority in all the 'white' countries of the world say the same. When the nurse at the hospital my first chld was born in suggested it to us I thought I'd do some research. Basic research found that babies in 'white' countries that sleep with mother have a higher chance of dying in bed. And thats why they say 'Baby MUST sleep alone'. Further, advanced research revealed the reason for that is because white new born mothers are 1000% more likely to 'enjoy' a glass of wine or beer before retiring to bed with baby so lose that common sense natural motherly instinct in bed that mothers in non-white countries have. So, on the subject of Sikh women, just wandering whether, while maintaining Sikhi, some Sikh women born in the west have lost that natural god given maternal instinct and put baby on its own at night ?

Think back Carinder. In this busy world we live in it is sometimes difficult to remember everything. But do try. Try and remember if you are the President of a major Gurdwara. If you are, think back and see if you can remember going to Wembley to meet the Prime Minster of India last week. If the memories are all flooding back then yes......this thread is about you. If not then no......this thread is not about you.

No it doesn't. To those of us who's families come from a pend the word 'pendu' means another person who is also from that same village, as in 'ah bandha mera pendu ah'. It is only people who come from urban backgrounds who have hijacked the word and use it to describe anyone 'they see' as 'backward'. They use that word because that way they don't need to insult themselves and their own families. I ssed the words 'they see' because what they see is not neccesarily the truth. Someone looking at it with different eyes could quite easily conclude that the people from the towns and cities, who mix their Sikhism up with Hinduism, think Sikhism is just for males, do pooja to photographs and would rather talk Hindi than Punjabi are the real backward ones.

With the 'oldies' and their general ignorance you can maybe forgive them, but the inaction of the young is unforgivable and, as I said, testament to the general low standard of education among UK born Sikhs. I mean sure, alot of them have degrees and decent jobs, but they don't really possess genuine intellectual enough to understand a wide range of things. Also, given how Jugraj Singh and the Basics of Sikhi lot were also intimidated and bullied by the Southall Singh sabha hired thugs during election time one begins to understand the sheer level of intimidation directed towards the oldies for their votes. As I said previously though, the Gurdwara is a registered charity so our generation don't need to sit idly by and just hope the oldies come to their senses, We should be using our education and know-how to force change. Next time there's an election we need to get the charity commission involved and put a stop to this monkey business.

The 'difference' we're talking about is the difference between you and everyone else here. The fact that you possess a childlike innocence about how the Southall Singh Sabha elections are conducted. Its difficult to imagine how a 'Sikh' on a 'Sikh' forum living in the UK could have grown up so sheltered and unaware of things like this. Thus, given how you know so little it was valid to simply query where you're from. You seem to know so little and when that fact is pointed out you get so worked up....despite the fact that you like to tell others on the 'swearing thread' to stop getting so worked up. All in all, very childlike qualities......if not 'fake-like' qualities. You dumbness is reaching new (low) levels Dallsingh101. Firstly, I am from Hounslow so my family are not even members of Southall sngh sabha. Secondly, every Sikh on planet earth except you knew how the southall singh sabha elections are conducted and yet, given how pathetic that makes you look, you say everyone but YOU is a 'pendu' ??? I swear, you are without a doubt the most useless poster on this forum. People need to look back at every thread you rear your ugly head and see what you always do there. You always ddo what you did on this one. This one had united Sikhs....united in intellectual thought...no argument. But, as usual, for no reason whatsoever, you absolutely love to rush and change the course of discussion with one of your trademark 'pendus' type messages. 'Pendus' this.....'pendus' that. Just look at the discussion on this thread has completely lost its shape and form the very second you came on to the scene. You are highly toxic dalsingh. You do this same thing on every thread you visit. Everywhere you go you try and ruin a discussion by deliberately using sinister tactics to disparage Sikhs from rural backgrounds (i.e jatts) in an underhand way. Thats all you're here for and this thread is testament to that. Either that or you really are so pathetic and childlike that you didn't know the obvious about southall singh sabha. Either way, you're not looking too clever here.

You sound like a Norwegian or Dane that has not got the slightest bit of experience or inkiling about Sikh / Punjabi attitudes towards elections, i.e how they are conducted in Punjab, Southall, Surrey or Toronto. Just out of interest, what is your background and which area of the UK are you from ?

You'd be surprised mrggg123. There's a great deal of difference between perception and reality. What I mean by that is that we shouldn't be viewing the Taliban Afganistan's view about women and education as the norm among Muslims. It is anything but. The reality is that they place an incredibly high value in the sciences and that is very much reflected in the extremely high number of hijabi young girls qualifying as doctors etc. The study of things like science etc is very much part of their religious traditions. It should be part of ours too. Our Gurus took us out of the darkness and since then men have taken us back into it. Just to give you an example our religious leaders who wrote the rehat maryada before this current one was written and approved somewhere between 1920 and 1950, had ordered in that previous maryada that it is against the Sikh religion for any Sikh to study foreign languages especially Farsi. Now think about that for a moment. We are supposed to follow in our Guru's footsteps and our Guru studied and mastered the beautiful language of Farsi and yet up until fairly recently our parcharaks were telling us its a sin to study it and our official code of conduct was telling us we would be sinners if we did. This is what I mean by how man is taking us back into the darkness our Gurus got us out from. Our parcharks today are doing exactly the same thing because they regard success as being able to make the highest number of people possible become amritdhari. All of them know nothing about education because all of them dropped out of education at a young age and went to religious school under the tutilage of a previous parcharak master or, especially in the case of the homegrown UK parcharks, bunked off school regularly to spend their time in the Gurdwara learning baja and shabads. Education in the traditional sense means nothing to them and they care not one bit about the long term damage that will be done to the Sikhs when we have a whole generation of poorly educated people. All the parcharaks say is important is becoming amritdhari, learning to pronounce Gurbani correctly and doing path. Don't kid yourself my friend. We Sikhs in the UK are extremely badly educated and we're getting worse. Thats why we take 100,000 on our human rights marches every year and achieve nothing but the Hindus and Muslims are educated enough to understand that all it takes is getting an extra 7 to 10 extra local members in the local political party and you then have direct access to political power. Thats why right wing Hindu MPs represent our Sikh constituencies. Thats why Pakistanis have become MPs in their dozens and even cabinet minsters and that why the capital city of the earth is about to get a Pakistani Mayor. Our level of education in comparison is already terrible and its about to get alot worse in the next ten years.

I've said it time and again, our problems are our own making because we really are extremely poorly educated compared to the Hindus and Muslims. And I'm deliberately mentioining Muslims there because as any doctor or hospital worker in the UK knows our hospitals are choc a block full of hijab wearing muslim girls who have become doctors. The Pakistanis really do value the sciences alot. We though, have a very serious problem on our hands and though its showing now its gonna become even more clearer within the next 15-20 yers because so many Sikh youngsters are getting into Sikhi because of popular parcharaks but those popular parcharaks actually blatantly tell the youngsters that the only importnt thing is to learn to do path etc. They actively tell the youngsters that education is just an afterthought that doesn't really matter that much in the bigger scheme of things. We've seriously got big problems coming our way. And its all relevant to the issue about Malhi and Southall Singh Sabha Gurdwara because the problem there stems directly from a lack of education....lack of political know-how etc. I'll tell you what I mean: Any of you who live in west London will know how the Southall Singh Sabha elections operate in the exact same way the elections in Punjab operate, i.e through mob rule, intimidation and corruption. Total mayhem at election time. Our dads and uncles are forced, intimidated, co-erced and driven to the elections. It is total madness. Lack of education by the young because the young could, if they knew how, understand that the Gurdwara is a registered charity and such voting tactics need to be reported to the charity commission for investigation and ultimate sanction. So yes, our leaders, such as Malhi are exrement. But thats only because we're exrement too. A people get the leaders they deserve.

. A very very silly name if you don't mind me saying. It would have made more sense to call yourself 'Middlesex Chronicle'. She has taken chola.

An absolute disgrace ? Yes, definately. Drugged out ? Yes, definately. He's famous for being addicted to opiates. But 'pedo' ? umm...not sure about this one. Do you know something we don't ?

If you're gonna wake up from death, India is probably the last place you wanna wake up to. All things considered, you're probably better off dead.

Daily Filth. My first inkiling is to draw your attention to how your 'news' ? paper yesterday thought it captured the public mood following the Paris atrocities by paying its resident cartoonist to draw a caartoon depicting brown men and women crossing into Europe followed by rats. The most interesting fact there is that your paper (Daily Mail) commissioned and published an identical cartoon in the early 1900's about Jews coming into Europe and that cartoon also articulated its point by showing rats right behind them. Pause for thought. But, Daily Filth, thank you for apreciation of me. You mentioned how long I've been here and that made me think why I am actually still at the same stage I was back then. My wife and relatively tiny children have been ready to shak amrit for a while now. They say it is me that is holding them back. They say its me they are waiting for to catch up. "caatch up" though, is difficult to define. Sometimes I wish I could become blind, shut my intellect, shut my eyes and follow blindly to what the parcharaks say but.........I just can't. After much analysis the biggest hurdle........the reason I still haven't become amritdhari.......is 'jhoot' bibek. My own spiritual development has been spawned by my Gurus' love for all mankind reardless of status, regardless of religion, regardless of whether or not they have a roof over thier heads. I want to break bread with them. My heart desires to sit and eat with the poor man. My heart desires to sit and eat the food that the poor, homeless HIV sufferer has prepared with his own hands out of love for me as a fellow man. But...............here I am. Still where i was before. Nothing ever changes. Men that are good at talking will still become parcharaks regardless of whether there is actually anything good in their hearts. Men with public speaking skills will go on making a forune while ordinary men like you and me will go on struggling with our heart and conscience.

Is that '50-70' the age group they're looking for ? Or do they need 50-70 bearded bandeh ?

See that is exactly where we're straying from the path. Nowhere did I say Dhadrianwale is this or that. I didn't say he's an agent and neither did he say he's a saint. What I said is that we, as a community, need to urgently snap out of this personality worship bollox. He, is a man. Nothing more nothing less. Man...just like me and you....is inherently flawed. No man should be put on a pedestal and all men should be viewed with a certain amount of cynicism. Look at things from the other side of the coin. The other side of the coin is the way our people in Punjab have been ruined because they follow this baba or that baba and do so to such an extent that they are blinded by them. Blinded in the sense that not only can they not see that their 'baba' is not what he says he is but they refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings of that baba when we, the Sikhs, try and point them out. Reason, goes out of the window. Now, just because a particular 'baba' is on the side of Sikhi rather than one of the deras, it does not mean we should also abandon reason. We have a living Guru to guide us and that is Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Everyone else is as mortal as us and has the same shortcomings as us. Every one of us people...including the babas....should be viewed with a very healthy dose of cynicism. Otherwise we are no better than the folk in Punjab that follow babas and visit deras. Otherwise this cult of personality will be the death of us. We need to wake up and realise that there is a world of difference between being good at talking and being genuine. 90% of our parcharaks are parcharaks because they have the gift of the gab. Underneath that oratory gift there is actually very little substance.

Finally. Thank god. Up until now....the latter part of this thread was becoming a continuation of the same old jatt beating. Same old blame the jatts for everything. Hell, blame the jatts for the Paris attacks while we're at it. Fact is. In the last 20 years, a very large proportion of rural jatts have gone to university and go themselves degrees and double-degrees. But....90% of them hve not found jobs. The reason for that is twofold: The private sector is controlled by Hindus and urban Sikh groups who only give jobs to their own kind. The public sector jobs are officially reserved through government quotas for the so called 'backward castes'. But hell. Lets not let realities like the above get in our way. Lets blame the evil jatts for everything. Lets sit in foreign lands and ignore his 90% unemployment statistic and criticise his desire to come to foreign lands. Lets sit in urban foreign lands and pretend we're the experts in rural ways and give him lectures about how he should be farming.