Akalifauj

23 hours ago, BhForce said:

I believe there doesn't need to be any such rule. The questions of the sort that @Big_Tera has asked (not all, but some) are not ones that he alone asks.

They are the sort that plenty of Sikhs ask.

It's good to have the questions here so that people can come and read the answers.

You might think that it's pointless because you already know all the answers, but the fact is, all of us can benefit from each other's perspectives on such tricky questions.

And then we are better prepared for when someone asks us such a question in real life (which happens often).

It's not about if someone else ask the questions that insult the Guru in the process.  But why are they phrased in a way that insults the Guru and gives a conclusion that the poster already believes.   So hes already come to a conclusion, why even ask the question?  Hence I brought up the example of a muslim asking in this manner and the Muslim would be banned. 

An honest Sikh who loves his Guru will not ask a question that already draws a conclusion that says the Guru were not above death and died from a disease.  

You did not understand my post.  Read it again.  It is addressing the insults directed at the Guru and the slanderous conclusion that was drawn from the question.  Do you get this key point or are going to keep ignoring it because it doesn't  help your argument?  To be honest the way you responded to my post is how cunning muslims respond when they don't like people being critical of their ways and methods.

And the truth comes out.  You have a personal issue with me.  I didn't say I had all the answers.  I said don't insult the Guru when asking a question.  This personal issue you have with me must be deep rooted because the insult of the Guru went right over your head.  So, by any means you are not a person at all to address my post without bias because you already have dislike toward me.  I precisely say in my post, I'm all for discussion but that went over your head as well because it does not fit into the framework of having a go at me.  Keep those blinders on.  

The way to be prepared for questions is to read Gurbani.  Gurbani answers this question and repeatedly I ask for Gurbaninto be presented.   But you and@Big_Tera like having discussion that start by insulting the Guru.  Tell me this, you or @Big_Tera will never last a second face to face with Gursikhs because they would tell both of you to go beat it because as Sikhs both of you don't have enough integrity and faith in the Guru to ask a question without insulting the Guru.  What kind of mor*n will start a question by insulting their father?  I will tell you, those that have no respect or faith in their father.  

The question could have been phrased without insulting the Guru and there would have been no issue.  Many people have asked how did Sri Guru Har krishan ji got a disease and then the Guru left the physical form.  And these people have received a response.  Well I hope the good karma you and @Big_Tera collected from the support of insulting the Guru and insulting the Guru was worth it.  Sukhmani Sahib paath is the truth and insults of the Guru will not go away.

@S1ngh @ADMIN @MOD

I honestly believe there needs to be a new rule around asking questions like @Big_Tera has on this topic.  Let's replace for a second that this person is a Sikh and say a Muslim asked this direct question where directly the person is saying Sri Guru Har krishan ji  has died because of his disease and then pose a question why couldn't Sri Guru Har krishan ji save himself?  The topic would be deleted and most likely the muslim poster would be banned.  So why is it acceptable for a Sikh to ask in a manner where he is already giving the answer to his question that says our Guru died? @Big_Tera presents no Gurbani to support his claims.  I believe when such questions are asked here, the poster must present Gurbani to support his claims and the full shabad must be presented.  If a random shabad is presented just to meet the minimum requirements then the post must be deleted.   I believe in discussion but this is a bait topic.  Also in another thread poster @Big_Tera said there is no benefit to doing paath.  This shows this guy does not even read Gurbani.  Also not to long ago this poster was on here asking how to be a bhangra singer.  I believe this post was created by @Big_Tera  to be malicious and cause hurt to Sikhs.  

7 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

They were above humans. 

Guru Har Krishan could have made the disease go away completely but that would be "The job is done." The Gurus performed duties, not jobs. 

Now you are playing with words, "job" "duty".  There is no difference.  There is no job or duty to be completed or performed.  Vaheguru sets the stage and came down as Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.  Hukam is the force behind everything and the Gurus performed according to hukam.  So does everyone do according to hukam of Vaheguru. No one is above hukam or outside.  Vaheguru is the hukam so no, hukam is not greater than Vaheguru.   

It was Akaal Purakh's Hukam to have disease spread. Guru Har Krishan took that disease upon Themselves. This way the command of the disease is still there, only the direction has changed, instead of disease being eradicated completely and change Akaal Purakh's Hukam. Ability to change God's command is an infringement to Hukam.

Yes it was hukam for disease to spread. Guru Har krishan ji did not take the disease upon himself as a being in a human form, which is limited to this world and is subject to this world. The human body will perish at its end.  What he did was, as Vaheguru, his hukam was at play and the disease came upon himself.  I agree with you but am explaining it further.

Where I disagree with you is the comment about the direction of the disease changing.  This cannot be explained other than understanding what happened.  Akal Purakh himself left the form of Sri Guru Har Krishan ji as the body is in hukam and the disease took over the body.  The eternal Guru is not effected by disease, sorrow or happiness.   This world is not to be won like the Christian or muslims or any other people want to win.  The Guru doesnt need to win or pay back for taking disease away from others.  The Guru injected himself into his play (world) and became an actor without being attached to his play.  There are worlds upon worlds and many performances happening all at once.  The sakhi of Sri Guru Har krishan ji is to be understood so we better our lives by being compassionate to the level of if we lose our human life we don't  cry or curse Vaheguru or a very rare response be happy.   We accept it and keep remembering Vaheguru no matter what.  This type of compassion is easily spoken of but it is very hard to do.

On 1/2/2020 at 5:45 AM, DSG said:

LOL !! I am not trying to protect anyone , again you make false judgement very dangerous thing to do , very anti Sikhi . Just focus on putting your views across on the topic and don't get personal.

The initial post was about banning NKJ and Ranjit Singh from doing Katha in all UK Gurudawaras. If NKJ has sexually abused a minor then that's a civil case and as already mentioned the Victim should seek professional advice and get justice. I am just outing across my opinion  about having a process in place re banning( Read the thread again ) . Anyway just going round in circles, enough said. Thanks 

Not a personal attack.  Here I will show you how you are nothing more than a fan boy aka cheerleader.   You say this topic is about banning NKJ from doing katha.  Doesn't his actions of possible sexual harassment/assault have anything to do with the banning his katha from religious venues?  No rational person would separate the katha he did from his wrongful act. Its antisikh to look at them separately.  Now sexual harassment/assault is a criminal case. You don't want to say the word criminal because it gives your boy...peepee slapper a bad name.  Well, he likes slapping little boys peepees.  He had a position of authority over children and he abused it for his sexual pleasure.  Do you not see how that is directly connected to him being banned from doing katha?  If not I know of a ocean coast you can bury your head further into.

Let @Big_Tera actually present Gurbani to back up his claims.  Why is everyone hoping on this bait topic.  He is baiting you into this topic and he thinks he has thought provoking questions.  He doesn't even in the slightest way.  

@DSG you are trying very hard to protect NKJ leader from his sexual misconduct.   Obviously you believe he is not guilty of the acts he has been accused for by another. If you thought otherwise  you would not have mentioned the courts have not charged him.  Many times the police will look at the evidence presented.  Talk to the accused and they can come to a general conclusion that the accused has committed sexual harassment/assault but there is not enough evidence to charge or prosecute.  The criminal justice system is not able to correct a wrong in every case.  This is one of those cases.  Listening to the tapes provided and NKJ leader behavior shows, hes covering up his sexual harassment/assault.   Many people around the world independently after reviewing the tapes have come  to this conclusion.   Yet, you want stand beside NKJ leader without rational reasoning.   For this reason you are nothing more than a fan boy aka a cheerleader.   All the Gurdwara in uk getting together to ban this guy is not some conspiracy theory or they were all out to get him.  

Nkj leader has been asked many times to sit down and discuss but he doesn't.  Why is that?  When darshan ragi was facing excommunication from the Panth, he refused to sit down and have a discussion.   Why is it, when panthic groups or individuals want to discuss the accused refuses?  I have seen it first hand.  When these preachers can't answer a question or face the truth, they run or dodge ever answering to their actions.  A innocent person doesn't run.  Hypothetically what does NKJ leader have to gain from a discussion?  Nothing because he will not gain any new followers after the listener hears the critical questions being asked and the guilty answers being given by NKJ leader.   So it's best for NKJ leader to cut his losses and continue on the road with the followers who are blindly following him.  And by him not discussing this matter he won't bring up anything new by mistake that his followers have not heard.  Any lawyer would have advised him not to speak of the sexual harassment/assault incident further because new evidence can mean him being charged.  Only guilty people think in this way and act like this.  

You want a proper process then go run along and ask NKJ leader to sit down with panthic Singhs.  Otherwise stop blowing smoking.  

4 hours ago, samarinder said:

Moreover, nobody is a born Sikh. One becomes a Sikh by following the teachings of a Guru. So there could be different type of Sikhs in this world since they could be following different teachings.

Now think about some Christians, Muslims, Budhists, and Jains. Are they following the teachings of their Gurus? If yes then they are Sikhs of their Gurus. So Sikhs have been around on this planet for a long time. So it is very hard to decide who became the first Sikh.

Yes, no one is born a Sikh.  It's by Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji blessing a person becomes a Sikh of the Guru.  Anand Sahib says, come Sikhs and sing the Guru's Bani.  So the definition of a Sikh according to Gurbani is  a person who follows Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Your definition of a Sikh, a  person who follows a Guru, is not according to Gurbani because we are told to become Sikhs of Sri  Guru Granth Sahib ji. I know you won't accept this reality, but it's the truth.  So as sikhs of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji we don't accept your definition.  You sound like you belong to some ashram where there is no absolute truth given by your human Guru.   It seems he is conflating words to give an ambiguous explanation so he cannot carry on without answering to anyone.  It's a fast cash grab business. This technique may work in a room full of ignorant, "yes pita ji" follwers.   But this is a forum where your human Guru ideas will be challenged and put to the test of Gurbani by people around the world.   Think of that for a second.  There is no bodyguard or extremist follower of your human Guru to stare down anyone when a critical point is put across or a critical question is asked.  You may want to be a cyber troll, if such actions are taken by you, then proper protections are in place for you to face consequences.  I think it's best you take the sound advice provided here free of charge and go on your way.  Or stick around and read some Gurbani so you can clear up truth from falsehood.  Enjoy your time free from ashram oppression.

On 12/28/2019 at 4:54 AM, 1Anonymous1 said:

About a few months before pahul my nitnem was chardikala Panj granthi added and other baniyan maharaj kirpa. 
 

after Amrit and drirr I could really feel the difference, Saas Saas simran was happening a couple days after and I would wake up in the middle of the night and just automatically doing simran. 
 

well I had the flipping cold and just a couple of days after Amrit sanchar (last Saturday, got the flu on Monday) I was just such a Manmukh that I stopped doing the Hukam of 2 hours simran and cut it down to 45 mins and cut my nitnem down to 5 baniyan. 
 

now my flu has gone but I can’t concentrate for even 10 mins without looking at my phone to see what time it is. My Saas Saas simran has gone and kaam has kicked in. I was so depressed and frustrated with this morning simran that I just couldn’t concentrate. I’ve lost the little experiences I would have after a couple of days from sanchar and drirr. 
 

kaam dreams have kicked in after simran, my mind won’t concentrate. This morning I did around 40 mins of simran (20 mins was focused the rest was just mind wondering) then I did my nitnem that I used to do before. 
 

it seems like I’ve lost that chardikala with naam, please help me get it back!!!!!   

Keep doing paath.  There is nothing more beneficial than doing paath.  @Big_Tera is an atheist.  Had he read Gurbani he would know compassion comes from Naam.  Human suffering exist because there is lack of Naam in there lives.  Charity gives atheist like @Big_Tera Hankar.  If he had compassion, he would understand how important simran of Vaheguru is.   To help with your problem.  Do more paath in isolation and contemplate over the paath.  Stop watching tv/social media and even going out.  Sit in a room and do paath.  Do your regular chores like school/work, helping around the house etc and speak very little.  Keep your focus on the shabads you are reading throughout the day.   Seva is only accepted if the mind is focused on Vaheguru.   There is no good in telling others paath is less beneficial than charity.  Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji begins by describing and praising God and then says jup/remember.   Had @Big_Terathe atheist, read Jap ji Sahib he would not speak against remembering Vaheguru.   

49 minutes ago, Akal Warrior said:

Nothing should be celebrated in December? What on earth are you talking about? There is a Shaheedi divas on every day of the calendar year (Bhai Mati Das Bhai Sati Das, 5th and 9th Guru Sahibs, Bhai Taru Singh, Baba Deep Singh, 1984, Saka Nankana, Banda Singh Bahadur, the list goes on and on) Are you seriously saying that at any time a Sikh was Shaheed, people can't celebrate anything, even if it happened over 300 years ago? That doesn't make any sense, and is actually the exact opposite of Chardi Kala. Think about it. 

Neither does chardikala mean to celebrate.  So think about it.

2 hours ago, DSG said:

 4. They have a lot of followers , have we ever thought they could be gems in the sangat who have joined sikhi because of them and this could break their beliefs , not just turning against them but they abandon Sikhi altogether.

The fact you say their followers shows how lost you are.  They are his followers then they have been already lost.  Which means their is no gem in the sangat.  Gurbani says be the follower of the Guru.  Many people have stopped attending any divan nkj hold because the leader was locking lips with a teen and slapping guys with a stick in their private area.

If you were honestly wanting a corrective action done by NKJ,  you would have the stand for them to openly accept their mistakes and not to repeat them.  The otherside you speak of having an ego is pathetic.   Would this so called ego exist if NKJ had not locked lips with a teenager?    Wanting NKJ to answer for such a huge mistake is not ego.  You see it that way because you are a fan boy.  No different than a cheerleader.  We already have many of these in the panth and on this forum.  Drop the act, you are not fooling anyone.

3 hours ago, Harditsingh said:

Look it's mostly jatts who brag about fighting the Brits wars tho or being part of the ww2. N it was the dogras tht colluded most with Brits. Rajput culture is different from other Sikhs as we still practice gender segregation even among families which jatts don't do. I notice jatts r way more liberal n try to prove how assimilatef they r. Even here in Canada most of the girls who give Sikhs a bad rep come from jatt background you guys r also encouraged to date by your parents well we still do arranged marriages 2 generations in. 

Did some poor jatt take your rajput girlfriend or fiancee?  There are substantially less rajput families in Canada than jatt.  So you will notice more jatts misbehaving.   But that doesn't mean rajput girls dont get down and dirty in the open.  It's not like they are wearing their rajput colors on their foreheads when they are at the clubs making their brother Harditsingh proud or when they are in the men's bathroom with who knows what caste or race or eye color.  How do you tell the jatt girls apart from the rajput.  Jatt girls are light skinned and rajput resemble your African ancestors?  

Go away no one care about your puppy love heart being broken by a jatt hustler.  But guess what,  we going to do it again....BRAAAUUUHH

18 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

 The meat issue you can take up with Hazooris  and Nihang in person. Which you won't. 

What makes you think they haven't been left speechless. Only thing they say is, its tradition.   Also, you have provided nothing of value to this discussion.   None of your antics worked so your last resort is to try intimidation.  This wont work either.  You are a coward.  Let me rephrase it,  you are a white privileged coward.  No nihang, no hazuri can harm any Gursikh. Their leader Santa sinh died in pain for his evil act. Here is a history lesson.  Bhagat prahlad ji was up against a tryannt like the nihang Singhs and Hazuri Singhs have become today.  Vaheguru himself came to destroy the tryannt that wanted to hurt his bhagat. Killing innocent goats for blood is an evil act.  Bhagat kabir ji says, who will cut a throat to have meat with their bread/roti.  Meaning who would hurt another in the process of obtaining a meal.  The nihangs kill the innocent goat to obtain its blood primarily. It's done because its a customary ritual, a dishonest ritual. They physically cut the throat of an innocent animal.  For such a crime there is great punishment. 

7 hours ago, Akal Warrior said:

So, back in the day, if someone asked Guru Ji, "Why should we keep our hair?", how do you think Guru Ji would answer this? Do you really think their answer would be:  "Because I said so". 

Do you have any Gurbani to support your thought process? If not, then you are using your manmat to think for what the Guru would say.  When a Sikh gives his head.  That means leaving personal feelings,  opinions and views behind.  

On 12/11/2019 at 6:09 PM, BhForce said:

Probably for the same reason that Guru ji felt the need to "justify to a Muslim" or "justify to a Hindu". When the Muslims engaged in dialogue with Guru ji, Guru Sahib didn't just give "Because Guru Nanak said so". That would be ridiculous.

Guru ji said that it was the "form of God." (Sabat surat rabb ki).

Exactly what you seem to detest for whatever weird reason.

Can you provide the ang number and which shabad.   

17 hours ago, BhForce said:

True. But merely refraining from adultery won't make you a saint, either.

Refraining from tobacco and drugs won't make you a saint, either.

Refraining from robbery won't make you a saint, either. (The vast majority of  people aren't robbers. That doesn't make them saints.)

 

So, what exactly are you saying? Is there anything that a Sikh is supposed to do? Please share.

He doesn't answer difficult questions.  You need to ask a different set of questions.  Maybe level 1 questions.  Like what color will you dye your hair this weekend?

20 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I hear wasps are recruiting for their condemnation department, and in fact hiring a lead position for their cut it up outta context division. You guys should apply. You'll love it. 

It's clear you have nothing of value to add to this discussion.  Anyone can see through your immature behavior here.  You're not fooling anyone.  Your white privilege isn't going to work and you realized it.  But like a whiny little child you cry.

On 12/9/2019 at 3:33 PM, ipledgeblue said:

Also to badmouth Nihang Singhs of Budha Dal And Tarna Dal, when the Guru jis also hunted from Guru Hargobind jee jis was regular practise. 

The Guru hunted?  Does Dasam Granth Sahib ji say for what reason?  Nope.  It simply says Guru Sahib hunted.  So a faithful Sikh will accept this truth but will not add and reason to why the Guru hunted because that would be adding your own opinion,  which is classified as manmat in Gurbani and it is wrong.  Again your babas tell many romantic stories that fail the test of Gurbani.  I have heard them and they are actually pathetic.   A Sikh who reads Gurbani can easily pick up on how its man made stories.  These fairytales provide the meat consumer a level of self reassurance to continue with the manmat behavior.  It's all about feeling good when committing wrongs.  Criminals think in this way.

On 12/9/2019 at 3:33 PM, ipledgeblue said:

bani is not against meat and even makes the argument foolish.

Is Gurbani for meat?  There are shabads that say meat is not good.  Meat is compared in the similar light has a woman is on her period becUse it's not clean.  Yet your babas prevent the women from certain seva or all together and joyfully eat meat.  It's a double standard and it's no different than how the pandits behaved.

Also to badmouth Nihang Singhs of Budha Dal And Tarna Dal, when the Guru jis also hunted from Guru Hargobind jee jis was regular practise.

The practice of killing an innocent goat for its blood and meat is not badmouthing nihangs.  Again weapons dont need the blood of an innocent animal or need any type of blood.  Weapons are used for defense by the Khalsa which the nihangs have abandoned.  There is no difference between Hindus throwing water at the sun hoping their ancestors would receive the water and what the nihangs do in this above described aspect.  You call it badmouthing because your feelings are hurt.  You are attached to a worldly group.   

8 hours ago, Premi5 said:

I am NOT an atheist!

I just asked a simple question, maybe could have phrased it differently 

 

And you have not provided info to say there should have been more or less Gurus.  What you provided was atheist views.  So you were seen and continue to be seen as one because you refuse to recognize and accept Gurbani and Gurus for who they are.  No one is an atheist for asking questions,  it's the views you expressed here that make you one.

On 12/4/2019 at 5:41 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

No dude makes perfect sense. You can all climb off your "You're going to hell" box now. It is 100% waspy and in poor form, especially when y'all get all happy about it. Like cut out the heavy mouth breathing. Even IF you were right, which you're not, you don't need to be so damn happy with damnation. 

I never mentioned anything about hell.  So, I'm go talk to a wall because it will understand more than you.

9 hours ago, BarBarBabaJi said:

If you go to barbarbabaji dot com and click on more and then on mural, you will view a video of a living representation of all the referrals in the Guru Granth to the Guru, Name, Truth and Crossing over the terrifying world ocean.  

I'm sure there are some members of the Sikh religion that wonder about the Book being the Guru, when historically, a living, breathing individual held the Naam in trust.  I don't think, after watching the above video you can deny that a living, breathing individual is still holding the Naam in trust, because he is depicted as being both the Boatman and the Boat, and his Name Bar Bar means those very things in the language of the muralist Apitatan, namely BARquo boat and BARquero boatman, and Bar Bar is indeed ferrying the soul Simarana across the terrifying world ocean.  All made clear to the viewer via the grace of that very Name, the Naam, itself, as only the perfect Shabad Naam can.

This is spam.

On 12/3/2019 at 6:17 AM, Guest said:

 Oh right, they're going to hell bc they were born there. You sound like an evangelical Christian, I'm done with this forum.

Only logical thing in this sentence is that you are done with this forum.  Clearly you don't know how to use reason.  

On 12/3/2019 at 6:17 AM, Guest said:

What does diet have to do with your morals?

Then you are the person who eats human flesh?  I can tell from your post you dont read Gurbani.  Neither have you studied philosophy or reasoning.   

Go to a Inuit (Northern Canadian) and tell them that Guru JI explicitly said that they cannot eat meat, we'll see how long they survive. Oh wait, their whole diet consists of fish, what are they to do?

Do you live in the territories?  No logic in your argument. 

The current groups that are promoting meat, like nihang Singhs have no right eating animals.  They have become greedy and ritualistic like anointing weapons with goats blood after killing the innocent animal. Weapons were given to the Khalsa for defense of the poor, weak, and innocent and not because the weapons NEED blood.  These rituals are no different than throwing water at the sun hoping your dead ancestors would receive it.  Same goes for the Sikhs that eat meat from anywhere and think its permissible.   If you want to say meat is formed from water just like vegetables.   Than your dead relative should not be cremated or buried.   His flesh is no different than an animal.  The soul has left the body and the body is only flesh. Extreme example??? No at all.  You think its extreme because you are emotionally attached to the dead relative.   Even though hes dead, you still will not let anyone harm the carcass.   You see the good the carcass did when God had kept the carcass alive.  It served a purpose that you valued.  That same life exists in the animal you have killed for food.  But you don't value that life for the same reason you will not hesitate to take from someone you don't know or care about. 

On 11/29/2019 at 11:36 AM, kidsama said:

Sikhi nowadays has just become an identity for most people. They feel proud they are sikh, which is good, but that's really where their sikhi ends. They drink alcohol, eat meat, practice in lust, and still call themselves a sikh. You maybe a "sikh" but not a sikh of the gurus. 

There are many reasons to NOT eat meat but I will list the most important one; because our gurus said so, and it's in SGGS, over and over again. "Sikhs" who say it's okay to eat meat, even the ones keeping dari kesh, are ones who don't even read SGGS.

“You keep your fasts to please Allah, while you murder other beings for pleasure. You look after your own interests, and so not see the interests of others. What good is your word? O Qazi, the One Lord is within you, but you do not think or contemplation on Him. You do not care for others, you are mad about religion, this is why your life is wasting away.” (Kabir, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 483) 

That's what sikhi is becoming today. People are focused on the religion side than the spiritual side, what really matters.. Katha people, instead of doing actual katha are saying stuff like,  "ladies should do kirtan in Harmandir Sahib" or "Stop using milk to clean the gold in Harmandir Sahib and use chemical sprays." And people listen to these guys, cuz they seem to be "modern" and just add on to their ego. I am straying a bit off topic, but this is important, we must not forget our roots. We are sikhs. And a sikh simply does what the guru says. Don't listen to these manmukhs. Read Gurbani yourself.

“Living by neglect and greed, the world eats dead carcasses. Like a goblin or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. Control your urges, or else you will be thrown into the tortures of hell.” (Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 723).

You should read prof. Sahib Singh teeka. Don't rely on English translation of Gurbani.   They mislead the reader.  Muslims say certain things are haram/forbidden to eat according to Islam Law.  Yet the real thing that is forbidden,  greed.  Is being eaten by the world and they due this by forgetting the whole world is perishable.