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DTF

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Everything posted by DTF

  1. D = Poodna, I might be wrong but it seemed a sincere post to me, argued from a Gurbani perspective. If Uzi was a Muslim i'm sure he would challenged me on the blatant facts I presented about Islam and the logical reasons why Sikh women cannot marrying practising Muslim males who consider them as inferior sex slaves. D = Preeet who's to say that the guy is a Muslim? My reading of it is that the guy is clearly a West Indian (who merely has an Arab slave name for a first name but that should not be held against him if he has clearly accepted Sikhi by bowing down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj). Do we want the couple's children to be an active part of the Sikh Panth and feeling part of the Gurdwara community that their parents married in or do you want their future generations driven away from Sikhi so that the Sikh population becomes smaller year by year? D = Point 1 is fine in theory mrggg123 but we have to recognise that Sikhs are 1.7% minority in India and 1% minority in Canada and the UK where we are next most populous. So we need to realise that those with two Sikh parents won't always marry others whose both parents are also Sikh. The key is how do we engage such couples to grow their bonds with and understanding of Sikhi and ensure that the children of such marriages feel and believe themselves to be 100% Sikh. That way our population can flourish in the Diaspora. The route you are advocating will lead to demographic oblivion for the Sikh community in the Diaspora within a couple of generations. D = Agreed, there is no restriction on Sikh guys marrying women whose parents are Muslims. If a Pakistani girl marries in a Gurdwara bowing down before Maharaj she is from that point onwards a Sikh. It's only our community that comes up with the ludicrous claim (contrary to Gurmat) that a Sikh man cannot marry a woman from a certain erstwhile family background. One community says convert others by deception for financial reward. The other says that even if the girl is willing to marry in a Gurdwara and bow down before Maharaj and raise her children as Sikhs enjoying full gender equality in marriage ... that this is somehow wrong. It's obvious to me which community will succeed if we don't discard the urban myth relating to Maharajah Ranjit Singh. He was punished for sexual relations outside of marriage with a Muslim woman (as there is simply nothing wrong with a Sikh man marrying a woman of Muslim parentage). Don't forget that Bhai Mardana Ji was the first Sikh and Muslim girls are desperate to escape the male tyranny and gender inferiority they suffer in Islam and enjoy the gender equality that only Sikhi provides. D = 1. Jagsaw, i might be wrong but I don't think Uzi is a Muslim. My personal thinking is that if we take off the blinkers far more women born to Muslim parents would prefer to marry Sikh men than vice versa as Sikhi is the only faith that enshrines gender equality and unlike Islam does not permit wife beating, having a harem of four wives, marital rape, sexual enslavement etc, etc D = 2. Do you logically think that Guru Sahib would say to Sikhs that 20% of the female population of the world are off limits to Sikh men? And that even if the girl in question is willing to marry in a Gurdwara, bow down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Ji Maharaj (thereby accepting Sikhi by that very action) and raise her children as Sikhs that there is anything wrong with that? What are you going to say to me and other posters like sukhi077 who are descendents of erstwhile Muslim raised women? According to your definitions, presumably I should not be a Sikh today had your likes stopped Anand Karaj's that took place during the Singh Sabha era when the population of the Sikh Panth grew fast. D = Is that a comment that any Sikh guy should make about someone else's daughter or sister? How would you feel is someone said that about your daughter? I hope you will have the decency to retract it? D = 1. Agreed, he's clearly a West Indian non-Muslim who had the misfortune of being given an Arab slave first name. D = 2. You might try to claim you were joking but the racism inherent in your denigration of the couple is all too transparent. How would you like it if someone made that comment about your own children? D = Exactly, Sikh guys are not restricted from any woman on the planet so long as the children from such unions are raised as Sikhs. D = cool water I agree that there is nothing wrong with Sikh guys marrying women of Muslim parentage and that instead of being frowned upon as a taboo it should be encouraged like it was during the Singh Sabha era when the Sikh population rose rapidly. However, one thing we have to remember is that excluding mixed couples (where the spouse is not a Muslim man - for the reasons outlined in my initial post on the topic) is a recipe from guaranteed population decline amongst Sikhs as year after year future generations of future Sikhs will be cut off from the Sikh Panth. Our focus in all such marriages should be to ensure that the children of such marriages fully feel themselves to be 100% Sikhs. That will only happen through love, support and interaction from Sangat rather than alienation meaning that such couples cut all links of them and their children and future generations away from Sikhi permanently. D = I'm disgusted by what you say above. Why would any West Indian man who would easily see the truth in Sikhi if only we bothered to explain it with humility and love (with Sikhi's total opposition to the slavery of black Africans that those like Prophet Muhammad famously practiced) reading your comments be encouraged to learn more about Sikhi? If a West Indian man is willing to marry in a Gurdwara, bow down before Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj and raise his children as Sikhs we should embrace him as a new member of the Sikh Panth. I give the girl in question respect for not being a racist and that we should build upon the fact that Sikhi is the only faith which emphasises that "manas ki jaat sabhe ek hi pehchan bo" ("recognise the whole human race as one" - Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj) D = Well said StarStriker Ji and you're 100% correct that the key thing is ensuring the children and future generations of such marriages are part of the Sikh Panth.
  2. A very good post overall brother but I would add the disclaimer that it is obviously imperative that the Jamil in question fully accepts Sikhi by confirming a change of surname to Singh and accept that things which Islam and the Quran promote such as wife-beating, the inferiority of women, the permission for a man to keep four wives, the permission for a Muslim man to keep non-Muslim sex slaves, the permission for a Muslim man to rape non-Muslim women are all renounced via repudiation of Islam before Sangat. I agree with what you are saying above in respect of Hindu's, Buddhists and Jains and others of a secular mindset. When 99% of the population are non-Sikhs it's inevitable that year after year these types of marriages will increase. The question is how do we turn something that could be a demographic time bomb for the community into something that links more and more ordinary people to Sikhi through this. Such marriages are increasing year after year which is an unstoppable reality that can't be ignored by blocking the odd marriage or two and the couples in all cases then severing all links with Sikhi for their future children (who should not be denied Sikhi regardless of what we might think of the parents). The consequences of exclusion would be that the Sikh Diaspora population would be less than half its current size within a generation. Hundreds of thousands of new Sikhs came into Sikhi during the Singh Sabha era as a result of free Anand Karaj sewa that was free from the discrimination of so-called self-styled "high caste" Muslim Qureshi caste Qazi's and Brahmin Hindu Pandits. Those were the days when the Sikh population was rising sharply. We need to get to grips with reality that a 1% minority will always have members marrying those of other backgrounds. It's all ultimately about ensuring that the children of such marriages have strong links to their Gurdwara and feel an integral part of the Sikh Panth. This is exactly what happened a hundred years ago when even both spouses comprising non-Sikh couples were given the blessing of Anand Karaj at local Akali Singh Sabha Lehar Gurdwara's and I'm Sikh today as a direct result of this historical reality.
  3. If I can ask you please, why don't you actually have any objections to the gangbanger lifestyle or crime? Isn't it our duty as Sikhs to oppose crime and drug dealing and murders tooth and nail?
  4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsVGsBx2QmI Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji always squarely hits the nail on the head.
  5. It seems to me that there is every possibility there won't even be a single Sikh MP in England on the 7th May 2015. Though I believe Rob Marris from Labour to be a much better advocate for Sikhs than Paul Uppal of the Tories (who did nothing to lobby for recompense to Sikhs currently suffering in Punjab as a result of the UK's role in the Genocide of Sikhs by Congress which the Conservatives actively supported alongside with support for Indira and Rajiv coming in various forms from the Soviets, the USA, Canada and Israel as well). Contrast to the Muslims (overwhelmingy Pakistani) who had ten MP's at even the last election in 2010. Given the Sikh population in England there should be at least 5 Sikh MP's at the Houses of Parliament. For every ten Pakistani's in the UK there are at least five Sikhs in the UK.
  6. Agreed Bhai Sahib and this was another relevant video relating to the topic at hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2g3aSnQ0WA
  7. Akalifauj Ji i overwhelmingly agree with the points you make about Jesus. Jesus means nothing to me personally. Sikhi is the only Truth. But I think that sincere fellow Amritdhari's like Singh123456777 and Harsharan000 Khalsa Ji can actually be a positive benefit for our Panth in potentially bringing Punjabi Christians or indeed others towards the Sikh Panth (if they utilise their obvious reverence for Jesus that way). And I strongly believe the same to be the case in relation to our more Sanatani leaning Sikhs too, such as the Sri Chand Puja Taksali's and N30Singh Khalsa Ji as they can actually do a better job than perhaps myself or others in attracting Hindu's to the path of Sikhi. In other words, sure let's all advocate the type of Sikhi we sincerely believe Guru Sahib Ji Maharaj have laid out for the Panth. But we don't need to think of others as non-Sikhs just because they hold different views which admittedly i might also feel are tangential to the pristine Truth of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. The key is how do we collectively grow the size of the Sikh Panth in order that there be a greater number of additional new Khalsa Panth members tomorrow to do seva for Sarbat da Bhala as in the case of Nepal, for example, where it is the duty of the Khalsa Panth to be at the forefront of relief efforts. So long as we are busy defining people out of Sikhi (rather than looking at ways to include within the Panth) we the Sikh Panth will remain marginal players globally when it comes to helping those less fortunate. Nepal Earthquake Donations via UNICEF: http://www.supportunicef.org/site/c.dvKUI9OWInJ6H/b.9274583/k.FBFF/Help_Children_in_Nepal_Donate_for_earthquake_response.htm
  8. Bhaji it's all about using the democratic lobbying influence of Sikhs abroad (in order to affect White House policy) which may in turn (if onwardly communicated by US Embassy officials in Delhi) influence those in power in Delhi to see the light on releasing innocent political prisoners who had long ago completed their falsely created (by Congress-Indira) initial prison sentences for crimes they did not commit. Their only crime in the eyes of Congress-Indira being to be Gursikh!
  9. With respect Bhaji, i don't think you can deny the clear self-evident truth of pro-Gurmat parcharaks associated with Gurmat Gian Missionary College Ludhiana's active and ongoing support for Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji in these video's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDB9gxNKsdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgCz-3PXL7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv0vORXc-Ak So Bhaji why are you at odds with Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji (skip to 8:58) who himself has credited Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji's efforts both this year and last. Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji alongside Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji even yesterday! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv0vORXc-Ak Exactly Bhaji, the level of divisional baqwaas spouted at the very point we need Unity in support of Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji is disappointing. I think many are threatened by the fact that Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji and Bhai Sararbjit Singh Khalsa (Dhunda) are two of the Panth's leading pro-Gurmat parcharaks and tell it how it is in respect of injustice, infanticide, illiteracy, poverty, biraderi and so on. Sikh Sangat AMRITSAR SAHIB, Punjab (January 2, 2015)—Led by noted Sikh preacher Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa, more than five dozens leading religious, social and political Sikh organizations and large numbers of Sikh sangat assembled at Sri Akal Takht Sahib to take up the sensitive issues of termination of section 25 (2) (b) of the Indian Constitution and the release of Sikh political prisoners permanently with its appointed Jathedar Giani Gurbachan Singh. Representatives of Sikh Sangat submitting memorandum to Akal Takht Sahib Jathedar Giani Gurbachan Singh The unprecedented gathering was mainly attended by Panthik Talmel Committee patron Giani Kewal Singh, Akhand Kirtani Jatha UK chief Bhai Bakhshish Singh, Akhand Kirtani Jatha (International) chief Giani Baldev Singh, ‘Sikh Fulwari’ monthly editor Harjit Singh, ‘Missionary Sedhan’ monthly editor Avtar Singh, Bhai Kuldeep Singh Live Sikh World, Bhai Satnam Singh Chandar, Sikh preacher, Bhai Baljit Singh Burj Naklian, Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar) Senior vice president and former MP Bhai Dhian Singh Mand, general secretary Jaskaran Singh Kahan Singh Wala, Prof. Mohinder Pal Singh, Media incharge Iqbal Singh Tiwana, Jarnail Singh Sakhira, Harbir Singh Sandhu, Akali Dal (Panch Pardhani) leaders Baba Hardeep Singh Mehraj, Baldev Singh Sirsa, Sikh preacher Sarabjit Singh Dhunda, Sikh scholar Dr. Sukhpreet Singh Udoke, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Satkar Committee Haryana chief Bhai Sukhwinder Singh, Damdami Taksal (Ajnala) chief Bhai Amrik Singh Ajanala, Akhand Kirtani Jatha leader Bhai RP Singh, ‘Akal Purakh Ki Fauj’ director Advocate Jaswinder Singh, Principal Baljinder Singh, Baba Anoop Singh Akal Bunga etc. It is pertinent to mention that the entire Sikh sangat were listening to Panthik speakers with keen concentration even without any mic. All speakers including Bhai Panthpreet Singh jointly said the Punjab legislative assembly should pass a resolution to get section 25 (2) (b) of the India Constitution amended. In respect of release of Sikh political prisoners, Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa addressing Sikh Sangat they appealed Akal Takht Jathedar to lead the nation so that a mass movement could be launched in order to ensure the release of Sikh prisoners languishing in various jails of India. Sanagat gave their approval to these points by raising the slogan of ‘Sat Sri Akal’. The speakers also showed concern about the health condition of Bhai Gurbaksh Signh Khalsa which is deteriorating very critically. The Sikh assembly also said that the so called Saints or cultists who did not follow the Panth Parvanit Sikh Rehat Maryada (Sikh code of conduct accepted by community) of Akal Takht Sahib had no right to oppose the Nanakshahi Calender nor to appeal to Akal Takht. A memorandum in this regard was submitted to Giani Gurbachan Singh. After getting the memorandum, Akal Takht Sikh Leaders Jathedar discussed the matter with representatives of the Sikh sangat for an hour. Talking to media persons, Bhai Panthpreet Singh said they had made the Jathedar aware of the aspirations of the Sikh sangat. He said the Jathedar has asked all the Sikh bodies to come to the fore for termination of section 25 (2) (b). As far as the Nanakshahi calendar, the Jathedar reportedly said that the final decision would be taken in the meeting of Panj Singh Sahiban (highest presidium of Sikhs), but he assured that the decision would be taken as per aspirations of Sikh sangat. Kirpal Singh Bathinda, Prof. Gurpreet Singh Guru Gobind Study Circle, Karam Singh Bhoian SAD (A), Amrik Singh Nangal, Parminderpal Singh Khalsa Internation Sikh welfare society, Dalbir Singh Dastar Federation of India, Bhai Makhan Singh from Jammu and Sikh leaders from Haryana and Rajasthan were present on the occasion. Gathering Sikh Sangat giving their approval to resolutions
  10. I think this is a truly pitiful thread raised by an OP who supports the caste system.
  11. Hopefully this momentum building up towards January 7th, as instructed by Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji, can mean the requisite number of signatures are exceeded earlier than the deadline if all of us Sangat unite towards achieving this as a small step we can do in solidarity with Bhai Sahib in the West.
  12. I think it's a time for the whole Panth to stand United in support of Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji rather than worry about the massive support for Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji's objectives generated by Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji and Bhai Sarabjit Singh Dhunda as seen at Sri Akal Takht today. Because Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji and Bhai Sarabjit Singh Dhunda have been at the forefront of parchar against drugs, in support of the release of innocent political prisoners, against female foeticide and vehemently against biraderi divisions it's highly wrong for them to be falsely labelled as atheists or being with such and such due to the commendable number of erstwhile non-Sikhs they have encouraged through their parchar into the Khalsa Panth. Today shows to diaspora youth that the so-called atheists actually command the support of majority of the Sangat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDB9gxNKsdc Factionalism has no place in the Sikh Panth's war against injustice, drugs, illiteracy, infanticide, poverty and biraderi. United we stand ... Divided we Fall
  13. It's heartening to see increasing pressure applied to Jathedar Gurbachan Singh by such a massive gathering of Sangat today in support of Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji's pro-Panthic objectives led by Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa Ji. I thought January 1st was make or break regarding the release of innocent political prisoners but it looks like Bhai Sahib is gaining momentum towards January 7th and every sincere member of the Panth must drop all factionalism and show solidarity with the cause regardless of theological leaning. Bhai Gurbaksh Singh Khalsa Ji was absolutely inspirational in their address to Sangat yesterday. AMRITSAR SAHIB, Punjab (January 2, 2015)—Led by noted Sikh preacher Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa, more than five dozens leading religious, social and political Sikh organizations and large numbers of Sikh sangat assembled at Sri Akal Takht Sahib to take up the sensitive issues of termination of section 25 (2) (b) of the Indian Constitution and the release of Sikh political prisoners permanently with its appointed Jathedar Giani Gurbachan Singh. Representatives of Sikh Sangat submitting memorandum to Akal Takht Sahib Jathedar Giani Gurbachan Singh The unprecedented gathering was mainly attended by Panthik Talmel Committee patron Giani Kewal Singh, Akhand Kirtani Jatha UK chief Bhai Bakhshish Singh, Akhand Kirtani Jatha (International) chief Giani Baldev Singh, ‘Sikh Fulwari’ monthly editor Harjit Singh, ‘Missionary Sedhan’ monthly editor Avtar Singh, Bhai Kuldeep Singh Live Sikh World, Bhai Satnam Singh Chandar, Sikh preacher, Bhai Baljit Singh Burj Naklian, Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar) Senior vice president and former MP Bhai Dhian Singh Mand, general secretary Jaskaran Singh Kahan Singh Wala, Prof. Mohinder Pal Singh, Media incharge Iqbal Singh Tiwana, Jarnail Singh Sakhira, Harbir Singh Sandhu, Akali Dal (Panch Pardhani) leaders Baba Hardeep Singh Mehraj, Baldev Singh Sirsa, Sikh preacher Sarabjit Singh Dhunda, Sikh scholar Dr. Sukhpreet Singh Udoke, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Satkar Committee Haryana chief Bhai Sukhwinder Singh, Damdami Taksal (Ajnala) chief Bhai Amrik Singh Ajanala, Akhand Kirtani Jatha leader Bhai RP Singh, ‘Akal Purakh Ki Fauj’ director Advocate Jaswinder Singh, Principal Baljinder Singh, Baba Anoop Singh Akal Bunga etc. It is pertinent to mention that the entire Sikh sangat were listening to Panthik speakers with keen concentration even without any mic. All speakers including Bhai Panthpreet Singh jointly said the Punjab legislative assembly should pass a resolution to get section 25 (2) (b) of the India Constitution amended. In respect of release of Sikh political prisoners, Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa addressing Sikh Sangat they appealed Akal Takht Jathedar to lead the nation so that a mass movement could be launched in order to ensure the release of Sikh prisoners languishing in various jails of India. Sangat gave their approval to these points by raising the slogan of ‘Sat Sri Akal’. The speakers also showed concern about the health condition of Bhai Gurbaksh Signh Khalsa which is deteriorating very critically. Sikhs in large numbers were seen displaying a banner in support of the orginal Nanakshahi Calender. The Sikh assembly also said that the so called Saints or cultists who did not follow the Panth Parvanit Sikh Rehat Maryada (Sikh code of conduct accepted by community) of Akal Takht Sahib had no right to oppose the Nanakshahi Calender nor to appeal to Akal Takht. A memorandum in this regard was submitted to Giani Gurbachan Singh. After getting the memorandum, Akal Takht Sikh Leaders Jathedar discussed the matter with representatives of the Sikh sangat for an hour. Talking to media persons, Bhai Panthpreet Singh said they had made the Jathedar aware of the aspirations of the Sikh sangat. He said the Jathedar has asked all the Sikh bodies to come to the fore for termination of section 25 (2) (b). As far as the Nanakshahi calendar, the Jathedar reportedly said that the final decision would be taken in the meeting of Panj Singh Sahiban (highest presidium of Sikhs), but he assured that the decision would be taken as per aspirations of Sikh sangat. Kirpal Singh Bathinda, Prof. Gurpreet Singh Guru Gobind Study Circle, Karam Singh Bhoian SAD (A), Amrik Singh Nangal, Parminderpal Singh Khalsa Internation Sikh welfare society, Dalbir Singh Dastar Federation of India, Bhai Makhan Singh from Jammu and Sikh leaders from Haryana and Rajasthan were present on the occasion. Gathering Sikh Sangat giving their approval to resolutions
  14. Bhenji please remember that Bhai Mardana Ji was Guru Sahib's foremost childhood friend from the same village so I passionately believe from extensively reading Sikh history that Bhai Mardana Ji was clearly the first Sikh in history. Of course, I wholly respect your right to believe otherwise and in truth this is no argument as both Bhai Mardana Ji and Bebe Nanaki Ji were equally both amongst the highest of the high elevated souls within the Sikh Panth.
  15. JKV Bhenji there are different schools of thought; some regard Bebe Nanaki Ji to be the first Sikh, whilst others believe Bhai Mardana Ji to be the first Sikh. The fact is both were great Gurmukhs of equal stature who stood alongside Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj every step of the way. Bhenji you're absolutely correct to point out that Bhai Mardana Ji never cut their kes as the first recorded Sikh in history. And StarStiker Paji you're absoluely right that all humans are Sikh by default and its only societal and parental conditioning that can direct certain people away from the Truth of Sikhi, though overall Sikhi must be believed in (via conviction and actions towards Sarbat Da Bhalla) rather than considered a birthright.
  16. No human being can stop a sehajdhari Sikh who attends Gurdwara from considering himself or herself a part of the Sikh Panth. The Dharmic faiths - Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhi - are all Sanatan faiths, however, you have to ask your conscience as to which is the Truth and which faith truly seeks to usher in a just society for all of justice and equality and service to humanity, whereas Hinduism as we all know is built upon the edifice of caste discrimination scripturually and Hindutva's motto is divide and rule. Sanatani's by their very definition are Sikhs. As of the above four Sanatan (Dharmic) ideologies I believe only Sikhi to be the Truth though I do have full respect for Buddhism and Jainism. I simply cannot take Hinduism seriously and view it more as a collection of various indigenous and pagan faiths that have survived amidst illiteracy via support from the Hindutva elite but ought not to in the face of education. If you don't believe in the caste system, you attend Gurdwara, you don't worship stone idols ... it all translates to me that your heart and soul is naturally aligned with Sikhi ... so no point in even calling yourself Sanatani ... call yourself a (sehajdhari) Sikh ... encourage others to do the same ... and remember no one can take Sikhi away from you. If you allow some Pakistani trolls to sabotage your faith in Sikhi it would be a crying shame. Think of even StarStriker as your brother and how unitedly we can all play a part in fighting to make the World a better place for all those billions that are currently suffering (irrespective of their beliefs).
  17. JKV Bhenji, i couldn't have put it better myself. Dhan Dhan Baba Kabir Ji Maharaj, Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj, Dhan Dhan Bhagat Namdev Ji Maharaj, Dhan Dhan Baba Farid Ji Maharaj all had kes and full dhari just like Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj and totally rejected Hinduism and Islam. The lie that these blessed souls that are part of Maharaj were Hindu's + Muslims is a lie we must always counter.
  18. JKV Bhenji, if I may clarify, I do respect your shardha to observe this and that you follow the advice you have received. However, so long as our young brother is clear that there are different schools of thought that can co-exist within the Panth he should be fine :-)
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