MisterrSingh

"The first kirtaniya going home tonight is..." *unnecessarily long and drawn out pause to exaggerate suspense for dramatic affect* "...Sukhjit Singh! Oh, didn't he do well? It was so close, but your vaja was out of tune."

I suppose he was being modest and self-effacing when HE said this about himself in a conversation with the Mughal administrator responsible for his capture... actually, no, I'm not going to bother correcting you. I'm not interested in putting in the legwork and correcting laziness. I'll just ignore your posts from now on. No loss.

Baba Banda Singh was the first to admit he took things further than was needed, which is a remarkable act of frankness considering the savagery of the Mughal administration of the time. He acknowledged the fact that God was going to rein him in for his excesses, and that any punishment - be it temporal or in the hereafter - was entirely justified. I find it interesting how certain sections of our people either can't reconcile themselves with the fact that morally questionable acts are committed during times of conflict (YES, even the "good guys" get their hands dirty; it's called fighting darkness with darkness), or flat out castigate Baba Ji as un-Sikh. I tell you, if I was around at the time and seeing Sikh babies torn from limb to limb and placed around their mother's throats as necklaces, I'd have been praying for someone like Baba Ji to emerge. Hindsight is great isn't it?

Also, this is classic internet taqqiah in action. On places like Reddit, etc., i.e. on huge internet forums that attract millions of predominantly white, middle-class users, even they've wisened up to these tactics. The "I'm an ex-Muslim / Atheist / Agnostic with Muslim roots" is an incredibly common method of disarming and nullifying any opposition and potential criticism before launching into the crux and reason for creating whatever topic was made. Be smart, people. Don't show yourselves up by falling for the bait, and getting yourself drawn into a one-sided conversation that's put you on the back foot before it's even begun. And, yes, I agree, admins should be on topics like these like a shot. If they're busy or aren't browsing the site, then perhaps the site needs to be closed until they're able to moderate the forum in an effective manner like every other forum out there.

Happy New Year to all. Be good, make the most of your life, never waste a moment.

I hope nobody starts disparaging this rasam as anti-gurmat and hollow ritual. Not everything that isn't explicitly stated in Gurbani is worthless. I can see the cogs turning in OP's brain, lol, just kidding.

You sound like you have your head screwed on straight. That's more than half the battle won. It's a shame you're having to experience this kind of turbulence. Keep your wits about you, bhenji. I hope you reach a situation that's to your liking in this particular regard. The deck is stacked against your favour, but keep the faith. It's worth much more than people would have you believe.

The dad on the committee needs to be having words with. Can't have people gossiping about his daughter's situation, can we, lest his standing in the community is affected? What a disgrace. To the OP bhenji: Under no circumstances must you have any children with this man. You'll be going from a very tough yet salvageable situation (if you decide to cut your losses and end it) to an impossible, lifelong struggle full of bleakness. A child will not reform your wayward husband; the responsibility will not change him. Yet, try to approach your husband in a conciliatory way if possible. Is he capable of being won over? From my observations, when a Punjabi man is kicking off in this way, he usually has someone else lined up; he wants you to leave so the blame can be pinned on you for ending the marriage, smoothing the way for his new wife. The decision is ultimately yours, but if you're expecting support from your parents, I think it may end up costing you your life. They've made their stance clear. Their "standing" amongst their people is more important than the welfare and safety of their child. That's a fact you will have to accept honestly and without delusion.

Yes! Oliver Twist put me off Dickens until I forced myself to read ACC. I don't know why Twist has gained the reputation it has. I find it to be quite embarrassingly cloying at times. That's probably the style he was going for, but still it's a bit much. Even something as apparently preachy as ACC doesn't lay it on as thick as I'd anticipated, which was a good thing. I'll be going through those two titles you mentioned. I don't think i have them in my collection, so I may have to pick them up. I do have Great Expectations (unread), but as I said after reading Twist I was put off from reading anything from Dickens, lol.

I read it for the first time a few days ago, and I must say it's surprisingly spiritual from a dharmic perspective. The many, many film and TV adaptations have failed to capture the heart of that story, instead defaulting to the standard Christian perspective (which isn't bad or inaccurate per se, but not exactly as the writer presents the story imo). Apparently, Dickens was heavily into the spiritualism movement of the Victorian era, and supposedly knew of concepts such as multiple lives, rebirth, spiritual guides, etc., so I guess that informed some of ACC. Probably the first Dickens story I've actually enjoyed. I read Oliver Twist a while ago and it was torture, lol.

Although education and wealth (and status) aren't mutually exclusive, there's katha out there which discusses how Man finds himself completely entangled in the accumulation of money once he starts upon that road. Many say, "I'll be different. I'll know when to stop. I'll use my money for the betterment of my fellow man." And it never happens. Even when he or she is sleeping their soul is lost in how much must be made, or worried about not losing what they have. When you listen to something like that from a Gurmat perspective it hits you what a burden excessive wealth can be. Heck, even Charles Dickens did an admirable job of broaching a similar subject in A Christmas Carol. Definitely worth a read. Of course, education and wealth, as I said, aren't always the best of bedfellows. Education for self betterment is one of the best things a person can do for themselves.

You recognise there's a problem. That's a very good thing. Most of our people go through life without attaining such a realisation.

"I want your pajama, your chaplaa, and your Hero Honda."

I know where you're coming from and I'm inclined to agree with you on principle. We can't detach ourselves from the world by eschewing education that leads to fields where we should be functioning in order to help the faith to grow, because that would be a death sentence for our future as a people. Yet our predisposition towards materialism is what I think you're alluding to, in terms of how our people view education as a means to reach a certain status and the financial rewards it brings, whilst neglecting other important yet intangible avenues of interest. I think it's a balancing act, brother. Find the sweet spot that works for you and keep at it. Don't renounce the world and its mundanities like a sanyasi. It seems cool when you're young, but without even a basic education things will be tough. Unfortunately, people don't see the soul within most of the time.

You aren't the first to have this thought and you certainly won't be the last. From my experience this "realisation" occurs to young people who can't be bothered to put in the effort to get stuff done anymore. They think if they give some vague, spiritually "enlightened" justification as to why education is futile, they'll somehow appear to be special beings who've transcended the norms of the grind of daily life; the kind of grind that the kaljugi rabble are just too foolish and unblessed to relinquish. Great stuff if you're looking to see out your years unmarried and genuinely devoted to Sikhi and seva and related things until your dying day; not so great if mummy and daddy expect a respectable career, a married partner, and a few kids from their offspring.

I roll my eyes at some of the ways we feel we must disparage ourselves - even in an apparent endearing, self-deprecating manner - in order to get in the good graces of mainstream society. It's pathetic and incredibly weak. "Turbanator." Yeah, no.

I was listening to a Punjabi radio discussion on this subject a few years back. In short you had the UK born Sikh going up against the recent arrival from the Punjab, and the Punjabi guy was lording it over the "foreigners" about how they've lost touch with their roots, etc., what with putting their elders into homes, and how that never happens back home. He seemed to be giving off quite a resentful tone in general towards NRIs. The UK born Sikh killed the debate with one stroke by saying that Punjab resident individuals were obsessed with land ownership, and if they weren't in line to inherit acres of zameen from their elders, they'd slit the oldies' throats at the first sign of trouble and dump their bodies in the nearest khoo, lol. The "roti pani" given to Punjab resident elders by their sons wasn't an inherent act of selfless kindness because it was the right and just thing to do for one's parents. Hardly a peep from the other guy after that.

Was it Jagsaw that observed the quite insidious connection between the Muslim ownership of the major Punjabi music labels (in the UK) holding sway over our youth, whilst the Muslims themselves adhere to a strict culture that supposedly views such music and associated lifestyles as godless and haram? So they're basically corrupting our people (apologies for the oversimplification) whilst they shield their own from its affects? It seems they've learned something of the old western divide and conquer tactics. We sit here and bicker amongst ourselves, trying to pin the blame on one caste or another whilst the orchestrators of the divisions get rich. Wow.

All true, brother. My particular issue is with good, decent parents who've been neglected, and those who seek to enable and explain away such behaviour as a symptom of living in a developed country, which only further proves my theory that no matter how successful our people become we are still inherently unable to shake off the slave mentality, I.e. "whites leave their elders to fend for themselves, so must we."

You'll be accused of being a momma's / daddy's boy with talk like that. Apparently, most of these oldies deserve being kicked to the curb in their old age, even those who did nothing to warrant such treatment.

If you have access to their internal communication, then you can complain to them directly, surely?

Lol, that sounds about right. Some are still sozzled from the night before. In recent times most "Sikh" families don't bother turning up to the Anand Karaj... y'know, the actual ceremony that's meant to be the foundation for the whole thing? The reception is where it's at apparently.

Never had you down as a champion of gay rights. Good for you. I really don't have the energy to get involved in your games. You may have the time to get into these little name calling matches, but I don't. You're welcome to continue being the loser you've always been. I warned you at the very beginning a few years ago not to bring my mother into matters, but it seems you've forgotten. You're a disgusting little man who hasn't been raised properly. Your parents have absolutely failed in raising a well-adjusted, sane human being. Your posts drip with barely concealed frustration, anger, and resentment. You're a schizophrenic fraud of a Sikh who espouses scripture at certain moments, yet with his next breath will say some of the most disgustingly degenerate things that reveal your true nature. You are the epitome of the fake Sikhs we've been warned about. You're a failure as a human being, and you are destined to be angry and unhappy, and blame the world and its people for your deficiencies and failures. You are a nothing person. I bid you and this forum adieu.

Lmao. Please continue. It's cheaper than therapy I suppose. And you do need a LOT of therapy... perhaps a bit more than I need a dictionary. I've sent you a PM. Don't clutter the forums with your usual nonsense.