dallysingh101

No one has had it as rough as Sikhi coming up. But still it survives. With all of those powerful factors working against us too (till this day). It's like a tough kid that keeps getting knocked down but then keeps getting up on its feet. Wait till it grows up. Do you not see critical thinking happening here in front of your own eyes? If wasps took a century and killed our leaders and removed us from true administrative skills, the above is no surprise, but again the situation is NOT permanent. The problem we have with including outsiders into any theoretical Sikh administration is we've been burnt by the last time we did that under M. Ranjit Singh. Sikhs would be retarded not to note and learn from that. If we're going to 'open up the books' for the panth, we need to do it carefully, lest we get infiltrated by malicious forces. Panj Kakaar was always worn by Amritdharis, they just didn't have that name. What the british did though was remove some items from the hathiaars Singhs normally wore and reduced it down to a 'symbolic' non-functional kirpan in their colonialist dimilitarisation drive. Kesh was there, Kashera was there, Kirpan or talwar as part of panj hathiars. Kanga goes with kesh. And there are early european references to kara, as well as wearing some form of sarbloh (which was considered sacred) which kara probably comes from.

I'm glad you're pointing this out. For some bizarre reason a lot of apnay seem keen to (wrongly) dump all of this on mirpuri shoulders. Right now, a lot of communities are involved in targeting apneean. This includes pak-punjabis but also afghans/pathaans, arab groups and even eastern europeans gangs. These guys swap girls between their 'stables'. Now that there has been so much publicity given to white victims of grooming (and a right wing reaction), the perpetrators will increase their focus on apneean, as the state/media has sent out the message that they are fair game.

I don't even dispute a lot of what you've said here. Mainly (imho) it's down to certain 'cultural' traits pervading the panth over Sikh matt. The difference between us is that I don't think this situation is necessarily permanent. Whereas over time, we, the panth have a good chance of realigning our moorings to our roots, look where India's going - straight into some western adharmic mimicking, with no sense of confidence or self in their own identity. They've completely lost their identity.

I feel jealous bro! I wish Sikhs were top of the list. Those Irish gypsies are tasty, wild mfs! I think they scare all of us.

What, cos your great grandpa sucked off english lunh? lol

You do gather that some of us Sikhs actually believe this tisar panth supersedes all the other dharmic panths before it, don't you?

Have you noticed that female peer groups have certain predictable features? There's always (at least) one pretty one. An ugly one who is like a gate keeper (I call them the bulldog), these ones seem to use the pretty ones as bait and pounce on any unsuspecting blokes who happens to come through the vicinity, usually after the pretty ones. The 'slag' - who'd corrupt a nunnery! The 'nice' one with no self-esteem who everyone else props up. Occasionally you get a really 'successful' one who graces the group with their presence in a most condescending, haughty way, which the poor women don't even grasp. lol

Talking to and treating them like a bunch of low lives, which certain apnay do, pretty much guarantees them to behave like this in my opinion.

Someone should send that Srishti bird this text.

F**k these mfs! Apnay being armed goes way back! From Twarikh Guru Khalsa - Giani Gian Singh ਪਿੱਛੇ ਦਿਖਾਏ ਇਲਮਾਂ, ਹੁਨਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਬਨਾਵਟ ਸਮਝਣ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਅਸੀਂ ਅਪਣੇ ਨੇਤ੍ਰੀ ਦੇਖੀ ਵਾਰਤਾ ਦੱਸਦੇ ਹਾਂ।ਇਲਮ ਤੀਰੰਦਾਜ਼ੀ ਤੇ ਲੱਕੜੀ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਦਾ ਥੋੜ੍ਹੇ ਹੀ ਬਰਸ ਹੋਏ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵਿਚਅਜੇਹਾ ਚਰਚਾ ਸੀ ਕਿ ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਸੁਣਕੇ ਅਨੇਕ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਪੜ੍ਹੇ ਹੋਏ ਗੱਭਰੂ ਅਚਰਜ ਮਨਣਗੇ। ਸਰਦਾਰ ਅਮਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਮਜੀਠੀਆ, ਬੁੱਧ ਸਿੰਘ, ਵਸਾਵਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਸੰਧਾ ਵਾਲੀਏ ਵਗ਼ੈਰਾ ਅਨੇਕ ਸਰਦਾਰ ਕੜਾਹੇ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਦੀ ਤੀਰ ਨਿਕਾਲ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਸਨ ਤੇ ਜਿੱਥੇ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਓਥੇ ਹੀ ਬਾਣ ਮਾਰਦੇ। ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦਾ ਸਕਾ ਭਤੀਜਾ ਏਸ ਤਵਾਰੀਖ ਦੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਦਾ ਬਾਬਾ ਭਾਈ ਦਰਗਾਹਾਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ‘ਸ਼ਬਦ ਬੇਧ’ ਅਰਥਾਤ ਅੰਧੇਰੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਜਿੱਥੋਂ ਆਵਾਜ਼ ਆਂਵਦੀ ਉਸ ਦੇ ਮੂੰਹ ਯਾ ਦੇਹ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਚੂਕ ਤੀਰ ਮਾਰਦਾ। ਏਹ ਬਾਤ ਕਨਖਲ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਨੇਕ ਆਦਮੀ ਸੁਣੀ ਹੋਈ ਸੁਣਾਯਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਓਹ ਓਥੇ ਹੀ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਸਨ। ਡੇਰਾ ਭੀ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦਾ ਓਥੇ ਮਸ਼ਹੂਰ ਹੈ। ਅਨੇਕ ਦਰੱਖਤਾਂ ਦੇ ਵਿੱਚੋਂ ਓਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੇ ਤੀਰ ਕੱਢੇ ਸਨ ਅਤੇ ਲੱਕੜੀ ਬਾਜ਼ੀ ਵਾਲੇ ਅਸਾਂ ਏਥੋਂ ਤੱਕ ਦੇਖੇ ਹਨ ਜੋ ਮੰਜੇ ਹੇਠੋਂ ਕਾਂਉ ਨੂੰ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਾ ਜਾਣ ਦੇਣਾ। ਬਾਕੀ ਜੰਗ ਦਾ ਸਾਮਾਨ ਫੁਲਾਦੀ ਸੰਜੋਆਂ ਪੇਟੀ ਚਿਰਾਨੇ ਟੋਪ ਇਤਨੇਭਾਰੇ ਅਸਾਂ ਦੇਖੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੁਣ ਦੇ ਗੱਭਰੂ ਮਸਾਂ ਚੁੱਕਣ ਤੇ ਓਹ ਸਿੰਘ ਓਦੂੰ ਦੂਣੇ ਭਾਰੇ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸੰਜੋਆਂ ਪਹਿਨ ਕੇ ਜੰਗ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਜਾਂ ਭਾਂਜ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਤਾਂ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਸੰਜੋਆਂ ਸਮੇਤ ਬੀਸ-ਬੀਸਕੋਹ ਨੱਠੇ ਚਲੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ। ਬਾਕੀ ਜੇ ਲੁੱਟ ਦਾ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਮਣ ਦੋ ਮਣ ਮਿਲ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਤਾਂ ਚਾਲੀ-ਚਾਲੀ ਕੋਹ ਪਹੁੰਚ ਕੇ ਦਮ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਸਨ। For those who consider the previously described skills and knowledge to be fictitious, I’ll now give an account of what I have witnessed with my very own eyes. It’s only been a few years since the arts of archery and stick fighting were discussed in such a way that should [today's] young British-educated men have heard it, they would've considered it astounding. Sardars like Amar Singh Majittia, Buddh Singh, Wasava Singh Sandawalia and many other chieftains could shoot arrows straight through [metal] cauldrons; their arrows striking whichever targets they desired. Bhai Mani Singh ji’s nephew, [who was] the author of this historical document's forefather [called] Baba Dargaha Singh ji could 'pierce the word' meaning that even in the dark, they could accurately shoot an arrow into the mouth or body of anyone who made a sound. In the town of Kankhal these matters are spoken of by many men and they will inform you of as much because they [the previously mentioned sardars] used to go there. Even their camp is well known at that place. There, they shot arrows straight through many trees and I have seen stick fighters who have reached a point where they can keep a crow trapped underneath a bed. I’ve seen other materials of war like steel chainmail, belts, body armour and helmets that were so heavy that the strapping youth of today would just about be able to pick them up and those Singhs would go to war wielding and wearing weaponry and chainmail that was twice as heavy or they would undergo forced marches of approximately 50 kilometres (20 koh) with such weaponry and armour. They would only stop to rest after reaching destinations roughly 100 kilometres away and that too carrying any looted materials that came to hand. ਭਰੋਸਾ ਹੈ ਹੁਣ ਦੇ ਜਵਾਨ ਏਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਤਾਕਤਾਂ ਤੇ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਵਿੱਦਿਆ ਨੂੰ ਭੀ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਹੀ ਸੱਚ ਮੰਨਣ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਏਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਓਹ ਕਮਾਣਾਂ ਦੇਖੀਆਂ ਭੀ ਨਹੀਂ । ਚਿੱਲੇ ਕੀ ਚੜ੍ਹਾਉਣ? ਏਸੇ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਇਲਮ ਤੇ ਹੁਨਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਸਮੇਂ ਸਿਰ ਉਨੱਤੀ ਪਰ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਮਿਟ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ । ਸੰਮਤ ੧੯੧੪ ਬਿਕ੍ਰਮੀ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਤੀਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਦੇ ਭੱਥੇ ਭਰੇ ਹੋਏ ਕਮਾਨਾਂ, ਬੰਦੂਕਾਂ ਤੋੜੇਦਾਰਾਂਤੇ ਪੱਥਰ ਕਲਾਂ ਤਲਵਾਰਾਂ, ਨੇਜ਼ੇ, ਬਰਛੀਆਂ, ਸਾਂਗਾਂ, ਕਟਾਰ ਪੇਸ਼ਕਬਜ਼, ਤਮੰਚੇ, ਪਸਤੌਲ ਢਾਲਾਂ ਆਦਿਕ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸੰਜੋਇ ਆਦਿਕ ਬਖਤਰ ਘਰ ਘਰ ਹੁੰਦੇ ਸੇ । ਸਭ ਲੋਕ ਸ਼ਸਤ੍ਰਵਿੱਦ੍ਯਾ ਸਿੱਖਦੇ ਸਿਖਾਂਵਦੇ ਘਰ ਬੈਠੇ ਹੀ ਪੱਕੇ ਸਿਪਾਹੀ ਬਣੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਸੇ ।I I believe that the young, strapping lads of today may have trouble accepting such strength and martial skills to be a reality because they haven't even seen those bows, let alone string one. In this fashion, many arts and skills - after reaching a highly developed stage become extinct at the hands of time. Prior to 1914 Bikram there were quivers packed with many varieties of arrows, guns, matchlocks, stone-cutting sabres, javelins, spears and pikes. Coats of mail and armoury, as well as weaponry such as punch daggers, Afghani stilettos, revolvers, pistols, shields and so forth were kept in each and every home. All the people would be learning or teaching the art of weaponry, and even whilst seated within their own homes they remained as true soldiers.

I tell you what. You've got a bigger chance of some apna in a criminal gang fighting for the panth if things got wild than any fudhoo in the angreezi military.

Yeah but look, they've (brits) been feeding our girls to the sullay and covering up for them.

I think you're right. They are very hawkish like that. They will wait for the right time, and will even form convenient 'alliances' like sullay did with Sikhs when facing skinheads, if required. But as soon as they feel its safe for them, they start to try and attack and demoralize minorities. This is done systemically and the targeting maybe especially zones in on children. It's a psychological thing to make them have deep rooted fear and hopelessness from childhood I believe - sunnis are like that. Don't know about shias?

Exactly - same with the english, look at how they did us and our lot still fought for them etc. That's made them think we are docile fudhoos they can do anything too till this day!

I've got a young relative who is mixed race. I don't think he'd mind marrying back in. But because of his coconut, closet-atheist dad's influence, he didn't learn to speak Panjabi and isn't remotely into his dharam. He's been on some 'dates' and even online ones like is common these days, I think the apneean are interested because he is good looking but then get put off from lack of Sikh knowledge and/or Panjabi traits? Also, he told me that when asked, the apneean have told him that their families wouldn't mind them marrying out...

And even when the grown up kids want to marry back into Sikhs, there can be issues because they've been so coconutised.

Don't forget kinj as well.

I'm laughing because it's absurd yet so very plausible......

My nani said if you have to kill a pig/boar you have to stab it straight in the heart (?? Kaalja?)

Problem with juts or jaats is that they seem to be low IQ? Hence them going to western countries to be mistris/tarkhans which according to pendu jut subeachaar is 'low caste'? But them having all advantages in their homeland???? Bwaaaahh, pareeepaaa! They need to leave their skirt wearing, anti-intellectual, scarcely concealed homo-culture behind and become a little more sophisticated - maybe?

It's good Premi made screenshots. Otherwise we'd probably still have hordes of dimwitted apneean denying that such attitudes exist.

Yeah that interchangeable thing is very interesting. My nani was frequently called biji by my mom and masi? What I've realised from reading previous posts is that in one generation a families lexicon can easily change. My mom was reasonably educated (for her time) and knew how to write basic English, Hindi as well as Panjabi/Gurmukhi (I'd say nana ji was quite progressive in that respect given the time). I realise now that the Panjabi used by my nani (who was completely illiterate) was much purer than my moms. Presumably down to mom being basically educated? I think Hindi words creep in? Nani would use nanh for eyes, mom aakh. Delhlay was also used for eyes. Kaalja for heart, whilst mom would use dil. There were a few other things like that. It could flip though: Nani would use piaaz (which I presume is Farsi?) for onions whilst we would say guttay. Also I think that there is a lot of crossover between regions, because some of the words people say are from outside of Malwa were used at home. 'ehkaanh' seems to be a true Malwa word too. As in: "Ehkaanh na kar!"

It's interesting to note how long before being called Guru Nanak Dev ji, they were called Baba Nanak - like in puratan Janam Sakhis.

I think 'baba' is a turkish loan word that meant 'father' in the original language but means other things in Panjabi now.

What's bebe actually meant to mean? My dadhi was called this?