singh1986

^ I apologise for the harshness... Obviously devout Muslims don't get drunk or harass women! But I have devout Muslim friends and to me it seems the attitude that Ramadan is the holiest month is a prevalent thought and then they relax more in their rehit/devotion after Eid. I believe that is because in the long run keeping the rehit of ramadan is not practical and its difficult to live a gristi jeevan! I work with devout muslims and they could never continue the fast for long after ramadan even if they wanted too. Not taking any liquids is very difficult... food is another matter. I personally dont eat anything all day out of laziness/ and available time and do so with ease, No water however is hard. I just think instead of wasting your time and effort could be better spent doing Seva rather than starving/dehydrating yourself on purpose.

Also I think it is very important to remain clean and not unpleasant with your odours... during ramadan I find muslims fall asleep after eating before sunrise or something must happen because they always have really bad morning breath during the month! Also Muslims themselves tell me they put on weight during the month because they fast all day and when they break fast.. all hell breaks loose and they eat anything and everything! Fried food etc... So all this talk about feeling the suffering of the poor etc is nonsensical for the majority of Muslims who state this... I know plenty of people who don't eat anything all day and have a normal standard meal in the evening. However, no liquids is hard!!! On a positive... I find muslims are extra nice to people during Ramadan... I was told this was because if they hurt anyones feelings during this month that sin stays with them etc... So during the month its actually nice to be around muslims (excluding the bad breath and moaning about fasting). Funny thing is it all lasts only a month! As soon as Eid hits you see drunken brawls in town and back to the same old holier then thou attitude with cars rolling up and down the street honking at anything in a skirt! So dasguruka.. I would advise if you want to fast or practice the "Dukh daru Sukh Rog bhaya" concept do so beyond ramadan, practice it beyond a month!... do so without fasting as for most Muslims its an excuse to get fatter and gorge on food in the evening and then have a massive hedonistic party at the end to celebrate Eid...

I think people are being too harsh... Firstly, I'd like to point out that those people that hark back to the days of "malkit singh" etc should remember these people never ever came out in support of sant ji or spoke about the issues in Punjab even though they were worse during the 80's! In fact Malkit literally ran the other direction when he saw the professor Bhullar protestors at Downing Street during Vaisakhi time... go ask the people who were there! Secondly, just because Tigerstyle or Jazzy B are khalistan supports or respect the bachan of Sant ji doesnt mean they cant preform in India or declare love for Indian culture/music! What your asking for is outright hate... thats wrong... India deserves to exist and flourish as does Khalistan deserve to exist and flourish! Jazzy B and Tigerstyle have taken the movement further into the mainstream with music.... I mean sure they havent got hate for everything to do with India or Indians... but if anyone does thats what you would call extremists! I like eating Gujji food and declare my love for the food that comes from different parts of India.. does that make me anti-Khalistani!? Isnt Khalsa without hate!? and lastly, Jazzy B associates and makes music with hard kaur... does that automatically mean he endorses her views or actions? Surely his actions and words should be judged on his own merits! Remember this was an artist that was willing to answer critics in the media including our own Nihal on Sant Ji and 84 etc... how many other punjabi artists would be willing to stand up for those principles?!... well defoo not malkit singh anyway!

In response to Isingh1699... I have heard the arguments you posted before whereby Jatts are tribes and not castes even heard race! And yet it has been proven several times that "Jatts" are not a separate tribe or race by testing genes... should there ever have been a Jatt tribe/race it don't exist now as genetically you could not differentiate between a Chamar/Jatt/Ramgharia or whatever! Unless I see some proper scientific study otherwise that argument in bogus. In addition, just because the name Jatt exists only in North West India doesn't mean its a tribe... otherwise Mochi people in Gujarat or Maher people in Sindh or any other smaller castes could claim the same... which is precisely why research into caste by any academic always mentions Jatt as a caste not as a tribe or a race... this has certainly been the case for the past 500+ years... should you provide any published research to the contrary I would be interested to read it.

Erm okeyy... so welcome to the forum Harkirat Kaur Khalsa, I take it your from Leicester? Never heard of your name or heard of anyone who is so in touch with Gurbani through this Baba that they would come out in such vocal support!? But hey... Im just being cynical... perhaps some of the other Leicester sangat on here who visit the local Gurdwaray have come across you?! As for the original video of your Baba, It was all plain to see... for someone who claims he can channel Devtay/Devis and Bhagat Fareed was it? Something about Islam thrown in? Makes me wonder why you went for Sikhism!? Why become Khalsa when your Baba is mona? Is your baba so special that he doesn't need to keep kesh? Sure you claim there was dubbing... did they "dub" his face and his frantic movements as well? If your baba isnt a fake why was he touching peoples head - to bless them?! As for the video you posted... erm I dont even know where to start... but well done for "exposing" black magic!

There is 100% support from the gypsy lane Gurdwara... GTBG however is a different matter and there is split amongst the community... without going into too much detail as things are still progressing it seems Gypsy Lane Gurdwara lost CCTV footage of Naujawaan involved whilst GTBG not only handed it over but helped identify people... In addition, there was an uproar that Bhai Mohan Singh and SAS were given a platform at GTBG by some committee individuals.... contact Bhai Mohan Singh for details.... As for the post by LSA on facebook condemning the Singhs that took action... that quicky came down when they received so much negative backlash from Leicester sangat. However one just needs to sit in their "inter-faith meetings" to find out what their agenda is... However, to be fair I haven't personally attending any such meeting. I am hesitant to say any more!!

Unfortunately now it seems that our own Sikh community and committee in this Gurghar talk against Bhai Mohan Singh and those involved in the Mughal Darbar incident and are working with the Police to get Naujawaan arrested that took action! I never thought this would happen in Leicester whereby our own elders and organisations such as Leicester Sikh Alliance -- who should hang their heads in shame after the posting they made on facebook calling youth involved as thugs!!!! and from what I understand are pushing for people like Bhai sahib to stopped for "hate" speech! I am so angry that as a community even those that do something our committees and organisations have completely stabbed those that take action in the back!!!

Doesn't have to be Cow faeces... even Chicken poo can create gases which can be made into electricity. On a side note I always find it interesting how Muslims especially mock Hindus for consuming cow urine and yet their prophet drank Camel urine for "medicinal" purposes! Drinking urine full stop is not good and unhygienic!!!

The stuff that regularly happens in southall is beyond a joke... and yet when elections happen nothing changes?! Is there seriously no support for a truely panthic and decent committee in Southall?

I think its really important that everyone makes a strong effort to attend! I always hear people moaning about attending but at the end of the day it puts diplomatic pressure on India and makes things uncomfortable for them! Its better than sitting at home watching TV all day or not doing anything... This rally is the right opportunity for all Sikhs, non-sikhs Jathay and organisations etc to come together and voice their anger at Indian Govt... no point sitting at home or saying its pointless when we know for a fact Indian Govt cant stomach this rally! They all mention it from KPS Gill to General Brar so people please attend... you might find it pointless but its making heads turn and as numbers increase the media exposure will increase...What we need is the number of people attending to increase every year!!! Attend and have yourself counted!!!! This is especially an important year for the sake of Professor Bhullar who could be hanged at any time!!!

I have been thinking about this for a while and wanted to gage sangats opinion and understanding of whether evolution theory and Darwinism fits into Sikhi? The reason being I attended a presentation attended by 100+ post grad academics at GNG Leicester where at the museum the presenter launched into a tirade against evolution theory and how it was against Sikhism. I have never really heard a learned Sikh (I am presuming he is one considering GNG employee him) speak so strongly against a theory that is generally accepted in the scientific world. However - the individual did go on to speak against Nihang Singhs rehit etc and seemed to be disregarding the different groups and practices Sikhs follow... which lost the audience as most people in the room knew there were different rehits/Jathay... Nevertheless, his views against evolution in Sikhism where particularly strong.. Was he correct in enforcing such a view so strongly? Is evolution and sikhi completely incompatible?

BUMP! Still not been done!... Another petition needed? ...as this one has closed!

I have always thought 3HO was okey, just a little quirky BUT... when they start raving to Gurbani... its just so wrong!!! I've seen videos where they shake their booty more than beyonce and that was whilst singing Jap Ji sahib... some of y'all might call it "lost in masti" ... whilst I think they've lost the plot! Could you imagine Punjabi Sikhs busting out full out Bhangra moves to Jap Ji Sahib? (Tho Im pretty sure 3HO have probably done this already) Just because they are white and bringing "new" people into Sikhi we seem to accept such behaviour. .

I really do think Sarbat people and gay sikhs (there are loads... y'all will be surprised!) are pushing it with the anand karaj. There is no need for gay Sikhs to get married or to indulge in this khaami lifestyle... what you should be doing is focusing on controlling it... accepting your gay is one thing but you should not be acting on it... it is ultimately an unhealthy practice to engage in homosexual coitus... There are other methods out there which gay Sikhs should look to explore before engaging in such activities. BUT I agree with earlier posts that it is wrong to believe that homosexuality is deviate and we should shun gay people as abnormal is going too far... We should accept Gay Sikhs but NOT those that act upon it sexually... There is this gay dude that does sooo much seva at my local Gurdwara everyday and its distressing to see sangat mock him and avoid him even though the amount of seva and obvious humility he has... On side note I wish people would not pick and choose the edicts of the Akal Takhat and the direction of Jathedar Gurbachan Singh... Either accept the Hukams that come out the Akal Takhat or dont...

I have had a similar discussion with a few people before from a range of religious backgrounds including a doctor.... and I am still unsure, it is normal for your average regular guy to have lustful thoughts, from a Sikhi perspective it is important to have control over your vices such as Kaam but it exists and you need it to a certain extent to procreate right!? BUT it is equally unhealthy to subdue sexual energy which is something Catholics do and look at what their priests are known to do!?! In addition, Sikhs especially in some Jathay think of sexual energy as something absolutely disgusting and something that should be shunned at all costs except for procreation... and yet these Jathay who suppress such thoughts are the ones that are hit with the most scandals... Sexual repression never works... and if you ask a young guy to repress their thoughts and not give them a safe outlet... this is not good! Which is a reason why in bible belt areas in America and Amish people get married at 16+ ... I think British protestant views towards masturbation and all things sexual have influenced the prevalent suppression of anything sexual hence the staunch objection to such matters in the Dasam Granth?! And so is masturbation as a kaami outlet wrong? Yes. But is shouting in anger as a khroodi outlet wrong? Yes. Is bragging about your new car or job as a hankaari outlet wrong? Yes.... These are vices, we accept them and fight them everyday and reduce their outlet?! Most health professionals see masturbation as a healthy practice in moderation. It is known to boost immune system, reduce stress and fight depression. It is known to reduce your sexual libido-desire and thus helps to fight kaam in your day to day life! surely thats a good thing?! Just my thoughts...

^Well I think this will cause a lot of Sikh employers who are Castist to be wary... mocking an employee for their Caste or calling them by their caste name might be enough grounds for them to sue... I think its needed. Even the younger generation... I've seen a guy in DJ Roadshow business get mocked and verbally abused because of his caste... But mostly I've seen it in factories where a large amount of older punjabi people work where the pack mentality kicks in... It seems most people on here disagree, but unfortunately it happens amongst Sikhs aswell.

Maybe Im more conservative than I thought... looked like the type of event where alcohol would be drunk, meat served etc... Also I'm not used too seeing an awards ceromony for Sikhs without the presence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji... kinda feel our Guru has been excluded from an event thats supposed to about Sikhs. I felt uncomfortable by the fact people sitting in audience without head covered whilst bani is being sung/ Lastly I am not used to seeing an awards given to Sikhs that's sikhi related where people clap (western concept)... I expected Jaikaray... lol I used to think I was quite liberal/moderate... maybe not if no one else finds this strange at the very least

Just seen this clip... a little disturbed. Especially to see GNNSJ and Baba Fateh Singh Gatka Akhara there amongst this lot.

Well the top comment is from an individual who works at Sikhnet... says it all what their stance is. I think Sikhnet and 3HO are the biggest hippy Sikhs I have ever encountered!!! Along with mixed faith marriages I've seen them marry homosexual couples and the top comment mentions Muslim-sikhs.... WTH is that?

Everybody use the on-line contact form and make a complaint to the BBC! We have got to start doing this otherwise this will not stop and get worse! For some of the more learned Singh's please could you complain and list all the mis-truths given that Nihal often pushes through as facts... its https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/complaints/forms/?reset=#anchor

I used to remember going on the website whilst at uni finding out about events, camps etc. Especially the London/Midlands Uni's were really active on there...this website was important for Sikhs going to uni living independently, discovering Sangat and Sikhi etc but now it looks like the latest update for a camp was in 2011. Does the organisation even exist any more? I remember there being a British Sikh Student Federation that was separate from BOSS... what happened to that? Is there no Umbrella organisation functioning any more for UK Sikh Societies like the National Hindu Students' Forum (NHSF) !?!

Having monitored EDL forums and white supremacist forums such as stormfront it is apparent the majority of the people who attend EDL/SDL rallies and its die hard supporters are and were NF people, Combat 18, Casuals etc.... this same ideology and people often mock Sikhi and do not differentiate between Muslim/Sikh and neither do they wish to, they retell stories of how they battered Sikhs in the 80/90s... we are all "mudbloods", "ragheads" etc... I have seen people that attend these demos post things on fcbk mocking Sikhis and Sikhi... I have observed 2 EDL rallies from afar and got targeted with abuse. I also found their chanting full of hate and racism ..."Who the f*** is Allah!" - I'm sure Gurbani tells us who Allah is... and yet from a Sikh perspective am I supposed to find these chants acceptable? As a Sikh am I supposed to support an org whose core members attack Sikhs just because they hate Muslims? As a punjabi Sikhi should I join forces with a white supremacist? As a Sikh am I supposed to hate all Muslims? As Guramit Singh said is the Quran barbaric and all true muslims extremists? - What does Gurbani say about this? To put it into a sort of historical context... did we as Sikhs ever join forces with the Mughals to get rid of the invading Afghans? Just some questions Id like to ask the EDL supporting/non-supporting Sikhs.

WSL "Jatts beat the crap out of some poor "choora" like its some sport back in the day" --Highlighted the bit you obviously missed. Obviously I have blinkers on and making up stuff when even youtube clips show how Jatts treat non Jatts... and even if I was to post the names of Jatt Gurdwaray that discriminate non-Jatts you would think I was making it up...o come on are you now even denying Jatt/Lubana power struggles that have been publicised. Once again you seriously think there is no Jatt Gurdwaray you live in bloomin West London!!!! Why do you think Ramgharia, Chamars etc opened up thier own Gurdwaray?! Did the Jatt Gurdwara welcome them with open arms?!? How about read some independent research... Sikhs in Europe by Knut Jacobsen 2011 that will highlight several Jatt Gurdwaray that discriminable other castes... or are they just making it up as well?

Till this day I have to sit in family functions where I have to hear how Jatts are the best and Chamars are low and have an inhuman lifestyle and are just dirty and immoral people. For years I have had to listen to aunties and uncles trash other castes and make them feel uncomfortable entering "our" Gurdwaray... Its never going to stop! Even as I watch the other Castes progress and leave these Jatts behind economically and intellectually I now have to hear this bakwass that now Jatts are the hard done by community!? I have listened to countless stories of how the Jatts beat the crap out of some poor "choora" like its some sport back in the day or taught some other chamar a lesson... in your average pinds I visit now is a drugged up alcoholic mess dreaming of going Canada/UK... I come from a Jatt family and can admit we have an unjustified superiority complex. Always have and probably always will have! P.S at Jatt Gurdwara^^^ lol you serious? You never heard of Jatt Gurdwara... I know of Chamar familes that got turned away from Jatt Gurdwaray to get married in! I have seen sangat with my own eyes hound a tarkhan woman to go back to her own gurdwara! and West London Singh did you not see that youtube clip posted?! Jatts are the worse when it comes to behaviour in Gurdwaray... atleast other castes treat you nicely... Jatts implement separate entrances etc

It will be handbags if anything... a few scuffles and it will be over. A few soldiers max will die and both countries will use this as propaganda for years to come. At the very least BJP will try and spin something to get a few more votes. From the Pakistan side everyone knows there is no central control. The govt of pak doesn't even know what ISI are doing let alone Army so India cant hold them responsible for this..., India knows this and by having a war with Pakistan they will destabilise the country even further. This could result in a Taliban style govt coming to power.... Indias worse nightmare... so they wont risk it! I often chuckle about the Indo-Chinese War where they had an argument over a megaphone for a few hours! :blink2: