MAX

Excellent passage. Yes, this is how we should all be thinking; constantly meditating, constantly reflecting. The line between miri and piri is a thin one, indeed...and it must be walked with the greatest of care and the utmost scrutiny. Questioning oneself is the hardest thing to do. But like all the most difficult endeavours in life, its rewards are the greatest.

Can't we use mace spray instead? It's cheaper, non-lethal, easier to use...and comes in nifty pocket-size shapes Ah, a fellow fan of 'The Way Of The Intercepting Mace' Yes, I think you've definitely got the right idea, and your clarity of thought and maintainence of discipline under pressure is admirable and down-right exemplary. Good on ya :TH: P.S. - I love all the pictures...and a kid that cute has got to be illegal

POST OF THE DAY!!

Thanks for the link, dude. Just to quote the thing about the kirpan: "Those who never depart his/her arms, they are the Khalsa with excellent rehats." (Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh ji, p.148) Okay, I think there's a difference between "never" and "never". Assuming that a Khalsa in 17th century India, where he nor she was ever truly safe (we were commanding guerilla-type warfare at the time) was the environment in which they were living is sightly different from today. It was designed as a mode of security and a form of honourable living. But removing a kirpan temporarily whilst in the sky - where the safety and peace of mind of every passenger is supposed to be the number one priority (there are security personnel travelling in disguise on flights) - I'm sure that Guru-ji would know that there would be nothing wrong with this. I don't think that international commercial airliners were even a dream 300 years ago, were they? Hm. For a God that is supposed to have no correlation to human interested linked with fear and emnity and is One with everything including us (ref Mool Mantra, of course), there's an awful lot of 'asking' and a willingness to be 'protected' going on, isn't there? Yeah. What page of the Dassam Granth was that line on again...? :mellow: Yeah. I have "faith that Maharaj will take care of everything", and that he has given me a mind to allow me to ensure that this is precisely what happens :TH:

The seduction of attachment, the opiate of ego and the deceitful weapon of rage are three of the Five Thieves that has the power to turn the Khalsa from an Army For Humanity into an Army Against Humanity. Such is the power of dogma, it is a sword that can be used for great good or tremendous evil. May the Khalsa Panth be endowed with the spirit of God to overcome these temptations of maya; illusions that become more sophisticated to battle their enemies of sincerity and virtue.

This situation is too complicated to be sorted out with the lack of understanding and brutality that comes with wielding a sword or baseball bat. Not to mention the fact that it would be okay to attack Muslims is implied in your sentiments. The ignorant do not understand what a Khalsa is, perceiving him or her as a threat. They do not understand that it is the duty of the Khalsa to protect them. Due to their own lack of knowledge, they misunderstand who the Khalsa are, confusing the people who should be their saviours for the people who are a threat to them and their families. Instead of countering hooliganism and barbarism with...more hooliganism and barbarism, perhaps we should consider educating those who do not understand. Sikkh authorities can encourage the governments of Western countries to educate school children about such things. The sword is only just to be used when all other means have been extinguished. In an age where the reign of democracy, the power of the ballot, and the ideology of secularism and globalisation are the dominant underpinnings of society, we must realise that this is the dream state - the 'Khalistan' - that the Gurus would have wanted. Our duty is to nourish it. And the fact that this state now exists means that the use of the sword can finally hope to be relegated to a position where it may never need to be used again.

I don't wish to comment on the topic at hand (I'm sure we can all do with one less opinion in this beehive of potentially volatile self-expression... ), but I will say that these types of reflective and insightfuly posts that are made with open minds and pure hearts are what gives me inner encouragement that the philosophy of Guru Nanak Dev Ji is on the verge of being rediscovered and reborn in a way that is more pure and untainted than it has been in almost three centuries; a way that will allow it to fit into and accomodate the modern world in the perfect unison that it deserves to. Rock on.

Um...okay. And what purpose does dong ardaas serve?

Haha...no, you're absolutely right The idea that butane lighters are still allowed to go on board, etc due to not wanting to tarnish relations with tobacco companies @ But this is a very awkward situation, unless of course we can find a way to edicate everyone in the Western world about precisely what a Khalsa is? We can't blame them if they are scared out of their wits at seeing what they believe to be a theratening person. They're ignorant - of course they are. But we should be doing something to remedy that situation instead of stomping our feet going "no, no, it's not fair!". Until the other 99% of passengers on board can feel safe (and we all know what 9/11 has done for peoples' paranoia about safety in the air...), I think that the Khalsa have a responsibility to ensure that the human beings whom they are supposed to protect actually feel safe. Bottle? Sword? Which one do you think people would feel more threatened by? Ah, okay, thanks for the chronology :TH: I was wondering if there were passages in the Dassam Granth you could point me towards concerning the 5Ks? Much appreciated. P.S. I'm sure that Guru Gobind Singh Ji - a very, very practical and reasonable man - would not deprive his Sikkhs of such facilities in today's world over something like temporarily placing down a weapon. Either we make an effor to educate people about this or we stop complaining that people shouldn't feel threatened when seeing a man or a woman carrying a weapon on their waste who - to them - looks just like an Islamic terrorist.

Dude, you just made my day

We are responsible for both miri and piri. One without the other is to live an unbalanced life. Work, duty, and politics are a part of the world of miri. But politics without ethics is dangerous. No man or woman can enter the political arena and think that they can serve their duty when fuelled by the Five Thieves or lacking in the Five Virtues.

Like you said; it's the "Nirmala story". Of course, I don't think that their insistence on turning it into a completely new sect was the right choice (people will follow almost anything, won't they? ), but the moral behind the story of understanding that humility and respect are not beyond anyone; least of all the Khalsa who are supposed to have suppressed the demon of ego and embrace the virtue of being humble. Being a Sikkh isn't supposed to make me closed minded and bound by illogical dogma; it is supposed to set me free and allow me to think with clarity and insight. And doing this does not somehow make me "anti-kirpan". Calling me that is just...rude ---- AIRPORT DUDE Uh...I'm sorry sir, but blades aren't allowed on board. PASSANGER Oh no, it's okay. You see, I'm a Sikkh. AIRPORT DUDE (flicks through regulations) Ah, okay, yeah. You're a Sikkh, huh? Yeah, you can come on board. PASSENGER Hehehe...what a gullible <banned word filter activated>. He actually bought that "I'm a Sikkh" line. Now to have some fun... ---- I'm sure I don't have to make the security loophole any more evident. "Guru sahib forgives it with ardaas"? What are we; Chrisitans who believe that murder is cool as long as you go to confessions? No such magic is promoted in Gurbani, I'm afraid. Virtue comes from what you do...not what you wear. To idolise these fabrics and metals of maya in such a way is to forget the central concept of 'Ek Onkar'. Sikkhism was not designed as an excuse to trade one form of dogma for another :TH:

I have met so many people - so...many...people - who claim to know 'the truth'. Everywhere you go, there is someone offering you 'the truth'. Or their version of the truth. Of course, the truth has no 'versions'. There is only ever one truth. And yet there exist people who will swear on the graves of their ancestors that their truth is the right one. It isn't necessarily rooted in logic. Heck, if we get enough people together, we can start believing in castles in the sky So, in this mad dash in the search for existentialism, one must ask the question; not "what is the Truth?" but more importantly "what is my Truth?" That is why I am neither for nor against the wearing of Bana; but rather ensuring that I act with virtue and nobility through my journey of life. Whether my moral guidance comes from the Granth, from Vedic passages, or from God's whispers in my own heart, I have set my goal simply as being a virtuous human being. That, in itself, is a challenge that is worthy enough of my time. That is my Truth.

What's all this about "an animal you can't drink milk from"? This is just a Hinduistic vaim, isn't it?

Guru Gobind Singh Ji once sent two of his Khalsa to a renowned Hindu center of learning in order to be educated and to bring back copies of specific scriptures (the Guru translated a number of Hindu texts including the Upanishads). These two Khalsa made there way to the Hindu temple and came back empty handed. The Guru asked why this was. The two Khalsa said "Guru-ji; the Pandits at the temple would not allow us to use their texts due to our appearance". The Guru replied by saying: "You are walking into a territory where a certain code of conduct is required. You cannot march into someone else's world and make demands. You must relinquish your ego and show these men the respect that they deserve for the service they will provide you." And so, the two Khalsa wore their hair down like the Pandits and made their way back to the Hindu temple. They did the rituals that they required and showed the proper respect. They returned with the information and scriptures. The country of France has its own domestic policy. They attempted to prevent anti-religious attacks in public places (a noble goal) by ensuring that no-one displayed any signs that were evident of their faith (a little naive, unfortunately). Clothing has never been an issue on planes; with all the different and varied cultures from Asia to Africa to South America, everyone is allowed to wear what they wish. But you must understand the practical difference between wearing a turban...and carrying a weapon. Unlike a glass bottle, the blade was designed to be a weapon of combat with the ability to kill. Sometimes, a little common sense can go a long way.

Indeed. As long as we remain burdened by the demons of the past and those of our parents, progress and peace will remain a dream. Let us practice the virtues of contentment, charity, kindness, positive attitude and humility and build a better future for all of humanity.

Focus less on making mistakes, and instead allow yourself to admit the mistakes you have made / are making and rectify them through virtuous actions to the best of your ability. If virtue and nobility is your goal, God will be only too happy to help. The world is the Khalsa's homeland. The Khalsa has no reason to exist if not to protect humanity. The Khalsa who fortifies himself and pusues only inward, selfish desires is not a Khalsa. He is a man who wears the symbols of humanity's Army, but who practices the vices of cowardice. The true Khalsa walks through the world, free under the protection of the Lord, home only in the House of the Lord, and offers his/her service to all who might require it.

Awesome passage, dude.

Assuming from the way you talk and your promotion of the installation of a 'Khalistan', I assume that you fall under the category of a "baptised Sikkh"? Although I am sure that you are a noble and morally steadfast amirdhari, I do find that assuming that the wearing of Bana by automatically makes one a 'good person' by default can be a potentially dangerous train of thought. But those who wear the Bana and use it as a tool to pursue a virtuous life of service, humility and humanity (like some of the members I have met here), then I believe that the Bana truly serves its purpose as a symbol that is representative of what it means to be a good human being. Yes, I have heard many people from many religions claim the same thing :TH: I would have thought that they were one and the same; one term being an Anglicised version of the original? Guru Nanak has said things that I think are very right. As long as one keeps perspectival and level-headed about it, any time can be "a good time" Oh, guys...? I was wondering from where I can get a good English translation of the Dassam Granth? A little help? (P.S. - Don't you often find that, due to the inexperience of the translator in one of the two languages, that sometimes the poetic images of the texts are sacrificed for literal translations? It's kind of left to you to fill in the metaphorical meanings, which can be a bit of a pain, eh? )

Your heart and mind are in the right place. You have a mind that is willing to solve the situations of real life with dilligence and intelligence. You are a man of virtue, duty and humble service. In such ways, you are a true Khalsa.

Hey there :TH: Yeah, that was my point. By "they" I was referring to deeds, not people. No-one is entirely evil or entirely virtuous - such labels are one-dimensional charactatures that hold little truth. I was born into a Punjabi Sikkh family I don't know if I necessarily "follow" any religion - I have a personal belief that Sikkhi is more than simply another 'religion' since its movement seems to have been motivated by a deviation away from the prison of institutionalised religion ("na koi Hindu, na koi Musalaman") - but I certainly agree with and admire much of what Guru Nanak has to say on the nature of God and the principles of morality. Nice to meet you, by the way

I don' think there are any "types of Sikkh". Only human beings and their deeds exist. They are either virtuous or evil. But all are ultimately under God.

It all comes down to one thing: choice. There is nothing inherently wrong with casual sex relationships. Much has changed in the last six hundred years, and the social norms for which Guru Nanak was writing are alien to the ones that we are living in today. But the fundamental principles still apply. "All men are alike in nature. It is their habits that divide them." ~ Confucius Personally? I stay away from casual sex relationships because you always run the risk of becoming more emotionally involved than you might want to (I'm a very emotional person). If you decide to go ahead with this, you must do so with the knowledge that this could potentially come back and bite you in the arse at some point if you don't handle it well. As long as you are both of legal age and as long as this relationship is of mutual consent and if you are both happy to do this then I see no real reason why not. Of course, having an affair is just unforgiveable, but if you're both single, horny and smart, you can do this and be fine. Like I say, it's no guarantee. Hence it comes down to your own choice.