>Bikramjit Singh<

The contents look like the article will be well researched and having read Amritpal Singh's other articles I know that he will put a lot of hard work into it.

Your post sounds suspiciously like my ol' mate Neo. I see that your vocabularly as well as debating skills still haven't improved

It must be just me but I find it hard to respect anyone let alone be friends with someone who tries to convert me to their religion. To those that think they can be friends with Muslims, you guys need to understand what the teachings of Islam are with regard to non-Muslims. They are told not to be your friends unless they are able to convert you or get an advantage for their faith. Is that really friendship? I think that you can only get real friendship with a non practicising Muslim. To the person who said they can understand the 'anger' of Muslims at Iraq. Did you ever ask these angry Muslims what they were doing when Saddam was in power. He killed lakhs of Muslims but you didn't see Muslims going on jihad against him. It's naive to think that Muslims are only angry over certain issues. Do you think that if the west leaves Iraq the violence will stop. Then they'll want Israel to be destroyed, if that happens then it'll be Kashmir, Chechnya. If those issues are resolved then it's the aim that all land that has ever been under Muslim rule needs to be restored to Muslims. That's India, Spain, Balkans etc. If they ever get that then it's their belief that all the earth belongs to allah and hence all other non-Muslim governments are illegal and need to be brought down!

As NaamRas said, it's a throwback to when the females of the boys family couldn't go to the wedding. In the old days the weddings used to take 3-4 days and the wedding party used to stay at the girls village during that time.

Harrassed? Oh you mean that gora whose Sikhi is at such a high level that he couldn't take criticism of his 'learning' and had to resort to swearing and saying in a silly accent 'You're not even a Sikh!' I think the other thing he couldn't handle was someone posting his photo on this forum. Nah that was the funniest lecture I had been to. Too bad that the lecturer could only read from a well prepared script and was unable to answer any probing questions. All in all it was a good Thursday Night One question, why hasn't that lectures and the Q&A sessions been put online, it's been nearly a year now and the organisers said it was going to be put online soon after.

Nihang is just a soldier? I thought the Khalsa was supposed to be a Sant Sipahi. Oh yeah there are always exceptions, having debated UK Nihangism with them before it's always a make it up as we go on type of cult. Previously it was that only Nihangs gave 'true' Amrit, then it was Nirmalas can give Amrit as well and finally the Damdami Taksal can give Amrit as well. Then there were only 4 Sampardhayas and then 5 to include Damdami Taksal and then back to 4 again! So and so person in history was a Nihang..oh wait actually he was also a scholar so that makes him a Nirmala.. ok then he must have been a Nihang and a Nirmala..lol All 4 Sampardhayas get on with each other only AKJ, SGPC, DDT Sikhs are haters and fanatics..oh wait didn't the Nihangs at one time massacre Nirmalas at Hazur Sahib!!

I've just been on the 'phone with a Nihang of the Budha Dal and this is what he told me. 1. Nihangs offer the blood of a goat to their Shastars and a small tilak of blood is also placed on the Nishan Sahib. On very rare occasions 2. A Nihang can cut himself, he stated only to draw a few drops of blood which is then put on his Shastars in a tilak. A Nihang would never CUT HIMSELF and place his blood on the Nishan Sahib. From what some members who PM'd me say that these cuts were not small cuts and one of the Nihang had cuts all over his arms. What those UK Nihangs did was NOT Budha Dal maryada.

Thanks for the quick reply. Just to make this clear. Do the Nihang Dals in India also CUT THEMSELVES to get the blood or is the blood from an animal that has been slaughtered using Jhatka blow?

Can someone who has been to the camp confirm whether this happened or not. Otherwise we are just discussing a rumour. Not really relevant to this discussion but since you brought up the Samurai, don't they also commit suicide rather than take dishonour? Does that mean that Nihangs should also start committing suicide as well. Each warrior group/nation has it's own maryada. Just because you say the Samurai annoint their swords with blood it does not folow that it is ok for Nihangs to also do this. Under what maryada have the Nihangs started to cut themselves and what is most dispicable of all it seems smear their blood onto the Nishan Sahib?

We are discussing what happened at Sikh Student Camp and not trying to justify the behaviour of some people in Nihang bana cutting themselves by saying unsavoury things happened at other camps. If the things you stated happened at these camps then perhaps some of the members who went to these camps could enlighten us about these incidents and then we can discuss that further. The point at hand is the self harm that some people did at the Sikh Student Camp. From you post it appears that these things did happen and you seem to imply that there is justification for it according to Nihang maryada. So enlighten us, which Nihang maryada, the Buddha Dal or the UK Nihangs? Another important issue here is whether this incident had the support of the organisers and if it did not then what actions did they take against these people and what actions will they take to ensure these incidents do not re-occur next year. I am sure that the parents of the campers would be concerned about such incidents.

Why don't you explain it here? I'm sure the other members would want to know, so rather than everyone having to PM you wouldn' it be better if you just post what happened and the reasons behind it

I doubt that guy is an Amritdhari. Seems more like some Hindu who gets pleasure chiding Sikhs who want Khalistan. If he is a Sikh then he belongs to one of the Sikh families who did well out of 80's. Someone whose parents are in Punjabi govt or Central govt. As with all oppressed nations, the oppressors always need some quislings to do their dirty work. Most Amritdharis i have met in India are either pro-Khalistan or are just stay away from politics and just say they want to live spiritual lives. Whether you agree with them or not but that is their choice. I have yet to meet an Amritdhari in India who supports the Indian govt or is proud of what India has achieved.

vaheguru ji ka khalsa..vaheguru ji ki fateh Dont judge the camp if you havnt been there... stop being a twat and grow up...if u heard from someelse then fair enough keep it too your self...if you belive that person then why you posting on here about it...if you dont then come to the camp and find out for your self.... vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh 118336[/snapback] Typical response. If you were there either confirm that it happened or deny it.. end of story. Sall just posted what he heard and from what some of the other posters are saying something like this happened. So what's wrong with him posting what he did. Seems like you're the one who needs to grow up and understand what a forum is. Lets have a civil discussion and not resort to calling people Twats and Maggots. I've never been to that camp and from what I've heard from friends it is fast getting a bad reputation. That's unfortunate because any camp that brings youth closer to Sikhi should get our full support. There might be a lesson for the organisers here, if you allow people dressed in Nihang bana cutting themselves and from what I have heard make a general nuisance of themselves then don't expect your camp's reputation not to be damaged Totally agree with AK47. Those guys who were cutting themselves might want to get professional help and counselling from the National Self Harm Network http://www.nshn.co.uk/

Yes it does because God cannot discriminate, what reason does God have to say that He himself does not belive in Ram Rahim, Puran and Koran? I thought the Divine was beyond religion and is complete in himself? 118141[/snapback] This is more your concept of God that has to believe that all ways towards him are acceptable rather than what the Gurus taught us. So if we follow Pheenamat rather than Gurmat then where Gurbani criticises idol worship then those verses cannot be from Waheguru? 118153[/snapback] Veer ji slow down, How is this "my" concept of God? Is Akaal Purak beyond the lable of Religions or is he biased? Is he not Complete or Pooran in himself? Does he Discriminate? Doesn't his Grace fall upon all? My question remains, why does God need to say that? Gurbani critisize Idols for the same reason Gurbani critisizes empty rituals. I am sure you have heard the story of Dhanna Bhagat. 118172[/snapback] The belief that Waheguru is beyond religions and labels can be stretched to means that Waheguru is beyond Gurbani. You may say that Gurbani does not equal Sikhi, so it could be that in your view Waheguru is beyond Sikhi. The argument then is that you need to be just spiritual and a good person and you automaticaly have Waheguru's grace. You asked whether Waheguru's grace doesn't fall in all. Neither you or I have ay idea on who grace will fall. Just as we cannot second guess where Waheguru's grace is to fall then we cannot also try and ask questions such as 'Why would Waheguru say not to believe in Ram/Rahim' Gurbani tells us that only those who are equal to Him can truely know Him. You have approached Gurbani with preconceived notions. The main one being that Gurbani criticises empty rituals and idol worship but supports the underlying beliefs such as the belief in Ram/Rahim. Therefore when you come across a Gurbani verse which has traditionally always been understood to criticise Ram/Rahim then you feel the need to re-interpret in in order to bring it into line with your preconceived notions. The question I would ask is, Is it possible to believe in say Rahim and Koran and still not indulge in many of the things Gurbani criticises. Gurbani criticises fasting but fasting is one of five main ways that worshipppers of Rahim worship Him.

Yes it does because God cannot discriminate, what reason does God have to say that He himself does not belive in Ram Rahim, Puran and Koran? I thought the Divine was beyond religion and is complete in himself? 118141[/snapback] This is more your concept of God that has to believe that all ways towards him are acceptable rather than what the Gurus taught us. So if we follow Pheenamat rather than Gurmat then where Gurbani criticises idol worship then those verses cannot be from Waheguru?

Nice article and about time the mainstream media reported on the backlash against Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists as well as Indian Christians. Also about time the MSM found out that there are more categories of people other than just Muslim and Asian. I don't agree with Amar Singh the Eastern Eye editor that tha Asian identity has been reinforced since 7/7. If anything its the exact opposite, those few among non-Muslims who were still trying to keep together a collective Asian identity are probably having second thought by now. But then again I think Eastern Eye being an Asian newspaper has an interest in keeping alive the noew defunct Asian identity. Tariq Modood seems to think that non-Muslims are selfish for distinquishing themselves from the Muslims, I wonder if it was Sikhs or Hindus who had just blown up 52 innocent people n London whether he would be harping on about Asian unity and asking Muslims not to distance themselves from non-Muslims. All in all a very good article. Just one question, why is that writer writing under a pseudonym?

Wow, I've read Ambrosia Bhainji's posts and they are always such a great read. It's great to read that she's taken Amrit :wub:

what's SGPC panthic rehat maryada without all the sampardava's and jatha's approval?? Nada :wub: 117841[/snapback] SGPC Rehat isn't called Panth Pravanit for nothing. Where were these Jathay and Sampardavan when the Akalis were taking back the Gurdwaras for the Panth? Don't confuse the SGPC as it is now with the SGPC when the Panth Pranvit Rehat Maryada was formulated. The new fangled Sant Samajes have only got a following due to weakness in SGPC. DDT only owes its popularity due to the Shaheedi of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, before that only a small minority knew about DDT or even supported it.

Does it surprise you that Waheguru is saying through the Guru that Ram Rahim, Puran, Koran are not to be believed in?

I think what we need to understand is that all the morchas that the Sikhs took part in where all started from the Harmandir Sahib, Akali Morcha, Punjabi Suba Morcha, anti-Emergency Morcha and finally Dharam Yudh Morcha. In between there were the minor Morchas such as morcha against the govt ban on using the slogan 'Punjabi Suba Zindabad'. So if we understand that all Morchas started from Harmandir Sahib then you can understand the reason why Santji was there. Santji was initially staying in the Guru Nanak Niwas yatri hostel and only moved to Akal Takht after an attempt was made on his life. I have come across some UK Nangs who think they know better military tactics and say that Santji should have left the Harmandir Sahib and gone to some other place to continue the fight. Such people don't know that for the previous three years the Harmandir Sahib had been cordoned off and any attempt to leave would have resulted in a fake encounter by the police. In the end if Santji had just stayed in Guru Nanak Niwas they would have said, 'why did he stay there and not go elsewhere' if he went to Chowk Mehta they would have said the same thing.

http://www.khalis.net/SikhAwareness/Audio/Choapai.mp3 Perhaps a bit different interepetation to that quote. Listen to the whole audio, its 8:44 mins long and 8meg file. 117495[/snapback] Pheena There's nothing wrong in interpretation but when the interpretation totally inverts the traditional understanding of the shabad then it needs to be treated with caution. Unfortunately we have many Kathakars and Viakhiakars who try to give a new and sometimes totally different translation. This appears to be the case here. Anyone with a good understanding of Punjabi/Hindi can understand what the Shabad says and the whole import of the Shabad. Read any good translation of Dasam Granth and this inverted and distorted meaning given y this female viakhiakar to it is not found there.

So how did everyone do in their Uni results?

Agreed. Communism doesn't work

I don't know about that Veerji but as far as I know only a few of the Kharkoos were ex-communists. Although during the 1970's most of the active Sikh students were involved in communist agitations. It was only when Bhai Amrik Singh became President of the All India Sikh Students Federation in early 1980's that he was able to wean most of the Sikh youth away from the communists. Since then the communists were always hostile to the Sikh cause

Happy Birthday Sis :wub: have a great day