AK-47

We were lucky enough to hear the story from bhai sahibs mouth directly a few years ago. Even when telling us what happened he had so much nimrata. He just kept telling us to do as much mool mantar as we could, i think he daily did 32 mala's of mool mantar as a minimum - and that was when he started!

Hang on, nobody actually knows who is responsible yet do they, so why are we throwing mud around already! And its weird that on one hand we say its ok for bal etc to eat meat in the uk and that the akal thakat can sort it out, but we all get so angry when people in india kill an animal to eat as well!! Weird. Anyway lets see what the police find out hey!

Dhan dhan Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji! Please can you post more sakhi's from guru jis time brother. Another sakhi i remember was when Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji was young and he wouldnt play and would just sit there and do gurbani. His mother asked Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji why her son remained so serious and not interested in playing games with the other children. Guru Sahib said that he is preapring for the future. When mata ji asked if this was because her son would be a great warrior, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji said that, your son will be a warrior, but your grandson will be the greatest warrior the world has seen, your son here will be the one to make the greatest sacrifice the world has seen!

I dunno, maybe im not seeing it the same as everyone else, but erm whats wrong with it? Iv heard jakareh that are much much more violent then that, and if you listen to dhadhi varan although they describe it differenly, they pretty much say the same thing! I.e. if you want to have trouble with the khalsa, then bring it on but were going to send you back in body bags! Varaan about singhs fighting with talwars and slicing each other in half, using ak47's and grenades etc is all just as violent and in fact is worse then using a J20 bottle! Remember patta patta singha da vari? I.e. even the leaves are the enemies of the singhs, ie singhs are being persucted by everyone. Even dasam bani where guru gobind singh ji is extremely descriptive of battle scenes, the way the blood spurts out, the way the arrows are flying through the sky like snakes, the way cut off limbs arms legs are lying all over the battlefield, the way injured soldiers are falling around like drunks, the way they shout KILL KILL and LAUGH at each other as they smash each others skulls etc. This is all very gruesome stuff. I guess its not for everyone, but there we go. You have quoted sant jarnail singh ji, but sant also said bring it on as well! He said we are not wearing bangles, if you want to come here then ajoh we'll show you what we got waiting for you! Now for some people this will get them saying hai hai whats sant saying, for many others they will just say vah guru da singh ne dushman nu lalkarea he! We all grow in different situations and live in diff areas, and most will never understand what the artist is talking about. Lets just say that this is a true and real reality, and one which most of us will never have to deal with. He aint said anything against sikhi or encouraged people to attack innocents, just said if people want to attack him, then he's more then ready to respond. So from what you have quoted nothing wrong in my simplistic view.

Whats that got to do with diddly squat?! What does mata bhag kaur jis actions have to do with the seva of panj pyareh? Or are you just picking her name out of some magic hat? Do you know whether mata ji did any seva in panj pyareh? If not then why not? What she did was more then many guys in HER DAY could have done as well, but she still didnt do panja di seva, so its pointless bringing her into arguements 300 years later! And to the person that said 'say to mata ji'. ermm as others have said, YOU do the bhagti and YOU ask her yourself. Personally i think she'd probably give you a thapar for questioning the rehat of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the Panj Pyareh. Simple fact is for centuries this was NOT as issue. In recent times certain people and jathabandis have stirred this issue up to bring conflict and confusion in the panth and to promote their own self interests. Funny thing is I would venture 99% of these people themselves took amrit from panj singhs who would also have believed in panj singhs but now for some reason they find a problem with it ... lol Vast majority of the panth accepts Guru Sahibs maryada, and only 1 or 2 very small jathebandia are pushing this angle. Lets at least have some faith that our ancestors where able to at least keep the basics of the true maryada of the amrit sanchar alive. But no sorry i forgot, all things modern, western etc etc are better then the old. we obviously all know better because we have done so much bhagti. Oh and i forgot that despite countless mahapursh saying the same thing and despite them having done the bhagti, maharajh never cured them of sexism and still had them discriminate towards women. So these guys knew vaheguru and had bhramgian, but still couldnt see women with respect?! Yeh ok then! Cant wait to see amrit sanchars with seats for everyone, a blender instead of the khanda, granulated sugar, mugs to drink out of, men and women all taking off their trousers (why discriminate hey!!) etc etc, after all whats the value of tradition hey! <_<

There is an amrit sanchar happening at the gurudwara sahib tomorrow as well, starts at 12 midday!!

Has anyone in india heard how they plan to commemorate indira witchs life next year? Im guessing there will be loads of documentories, big processions etc? Most will prob cud the singhs. any details yet? and any plans in india to counter the false parchar as next year the govt is bound to try make singhs look as bad as possible.

May vaheguru bless us all with this budhi!! Parnaam sooreh shaheedan nu!

Yes our parents do work and can afford the internet .. the same way we also work and can afford to pay our own bills. Very very lame attempt try something better next time. If you could really give us a slap then please by all means dont hold back. On one hand your opposing our peaceful means of stopping what we percieve to be anti-gurmat parchar and on the other your saying you could slap us for our beliefs and for our stance!?!? Maybe we should forget trying to cancel the progs and just give the prof a big slap as well ... taking a leaf out of your book. Let them do their pitch?!? They are not selling some new product that they need to pitch to us!! They are questioning the very minimum that keeps the panth together, the nitnem banis!! The prof has been challeneged in india and other places. See the videos above! He even signed to say he would be quiet lol!! Chal you ring the gurdwaras as well then and make sure you turn up on the day to slap all the singhs that think these programmes shouldnt happen. Since you also seem new to the internet (perhaps you have only just been able to scrape enough money to pay for the internet ...) ill introduce you to a new concept as well. INTERNET WARRIOR. You talking about giving us ALL a slap. Give it a rest. IK GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJH (there are numerous granths - i think you mean ik guru - never mind), IK MARYADA (unless the prof says we shouldnt do the amrit banis thus creating another new so called maryada) IK KHALSA (which me may not be anymore since prof reckons the banis read werent actually the ones that Guru Gobind Singh Ji read) ... hmmmmm Ak-47, the 'slap' word was used as a figure of speech (rhetorical point) to mean calm down and stop cussing like kids -which clearly you have proved in your last post ! And yes I meant IK GRANTH, IK MARYADA, IK KHALSA So have you read the Dasam Granth oh wise learned scholar, intellect and Sikh technocrat? Your humble, lack of Sikh knowledge and wit, WBA Lol Oh ok sorry so your post was meant to calm us down and stop us from cussing like kids yes? Soooo.... the FIRST thing you say is "CHILDREN" i.e. talking down and trying to cuss. The second thing you say is a very poor comment about our parents paying for our internet .... in my book that means within the first 2 things you said in your post you yourself acted like a kid and cussed twice yourself! Maybe you should give yourself that 'slap' for living in a glass house and throwing stones ... as a figure of speech of course! :1singh1:

Yes our parents do work and can afford the internet .. the same way we also work and can afford to pay our own bills. Very very lame attempt try something better next time. If you could really give us a slap then please by all means dont hold back. On one hand your opposing our peaceful means of stopping what we percieve to be anti-gurmat parchar and on the other your saying you could slap us for our beliefs and for our stance!?!? Maybe we should forget trying to cancel the progs and just give the prof a big slap as well ... taking a leaf out of your book. Let them do their pitch?!? They are not selling some new product that they need to pitch to us!! They are questioning the very minimum that keeps the panth together, the nitnem banis!! The prof has been challeneged in india and other places. See the videos above! He even signed to say he would be quiet lol!! Chal you ring the gurdwaras as well then and make sure you turn up on the day to slap all the singhs that think these programmes shouldnt happen. Since you also seem new to the internet (perhaps you have only just been able to scrape enough money to pay for the internet ...) ill introduce you to a new concept as well. INTERNET WARRIOR. You talking about giving us ALL a slap. Give it a rest. IK GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJH (there are numerous granths - i think you mean ik guru - never mind), IK MARYADA (unless the prof says we shouldnt do the amrit banis thus creating another new so called maryada) IK KHALSA (which me may not be anymore since prof reckons the banis read werent actually the ones that Guru Gobind Singh Ji read) ... hmmmmm

As singh has advised that the programme has been cancelled. Well done to the singhs who asked the gurudwara sahib to change its mind. Asking questions about sikhi is one thing, attacking its core is another. Well done again but at the same time would be good if a local can confimr that the news is correct? Many thanks

Quick update for the sangat. The nutty prof left the uk for a few days as a number of his programmes in the UK had been cancelled. However he is due back on the 22nd/23rd of this month. i.e. over the next few days. At present he is due to speak at the Guru Nanak Darbar in Southall and at the Guru ghar in Slough. Singhs went to visit the committee of slough last week but were unable to reach there before they all went home. However apparently Mr Bal gave reasuurance that if evidence was provided of the Prof questioning or disputing the nitnem bani's then he would cancel his programe. This has been provided by singhs on this website and will be presented to Mr Bal asap. After this the committee should have no choice but to stop the programme. Please can other people who have contact with the memebers of the committe of the 2 above named guru ghars play them the video and audio clips and give them the evidence they are asking for. We cannot rely on them doing the research themselves, we must take the proof to them. Any further updates will be given to the sangat as soon as they are available. Can we also keep an eye on cross roads gurdwara in coventry as seems like some dodgy parchar could also be happening there at some point soon.

You may be right, as i said i havent heard that sakhi mentioned in katha, but then i havent heard the entire katha by any means! Maybe someone who has read the entire pothi can comment? My mention of nidar was saying that prior to him saying this story a few years ago i had never come across it at all. Only since then has it seemed to have gained popularity. Im not saying its not true, im just trying to see if this is an actual documented history or something that people have passed down orally. Could be just me of course and my vastly limited knowledge! And if i were to play the devils advocate i could perhaps say that much of the raag vidiya was already in existance before guru nanak dev ji went to sachkhand during time he spent in the river. My limited knowledge of raag is that the gurus created a number of new raags and changed the way that they were used in relation to bhagti and bani. However many of the raags and the science behind them had been with the world for a long time. The same could be said of the martial techniques. Many of the techniques can be found in different styles around the world. So is it right to say that guru nanak dev ji brought these 2 things with him from sachkhand? Is it not that the gurus taught the best and most effective system, or is it to say that they created a whole new system? The fact that guru nanak dev ji brought back gurbani is undisputed as there is nothing to compare to gurbani and it is unique. Gurbani and sakhi's bacl up this fact that guru ji brought bani back. However with the other points, again is that actually what is said to have happened or have we just started to add bits to the original story? Sorry if these are odd questions and i am open to the fact that i may be 100% wrong, am just hoping somebody can suggest a conclusive answer to these q's and those in my prev post.

Excellent response bundha. As said there is nothing anti gurmat in having more then one akhand path sahib happening. Even if people wish to look at the so called akal takhat maryada,maybe they need to visit the akal takhat sahib. Last time i was there on the first floor there were 2 parkash's of guru granth sahib ji one on each side of the takhat (as well as the main parkash downstairs), both were being read, not sure if these were akhand paths that were happening. On top of this there were countless akhand path's happening alll around the parkirama. Now then what do we have to say about this? Is this anti gurmat as well?

Does the panth parkash actually say that or is that something you've just heard? The reason i ask is, that during katha a few months back, im sure the kathavachak mentioned the names of 2 possibly rajput warriors who taught guru hargobind sahib ji how to fight. It appears that their names are clearly mentioned in the pothi's. I cant recall any detail im afraid. The only person iv heard that suggests that the budha dal etc was created by baba budha ji is nidar. All other katha, books i have read suggest that it was nawab kapoor singh ji who made the 2 dal's. Nidar has argued that the name 'budha dal' was used loosely to describe the army of guru hargobind sahib ji. Im not sure if any of this is actually based on what is written in any of the pothi's used for sikh history though. Also while i totally understand that not all of our history was written down, is there actually anything to back up the theory about guru nanak dev ji passing on shahstarvidiya etc? Again the reason i ask is that before nidar introduced this theory, i had never come across this at all. But in recent years it has started appearing as this particular piece of history was always there. Im just asking whether this is the case, and whether any other histrorians, kathavackahs, mahapursh etc have done simlar vichar, or are we just assuming that it is correct because nidar has said that it is? do the pothis actually say that baba budha ji was a commander (and hence i would assume fought in the battles?) in the army, does it also give the names of the other commanders, generals etc? sorry one more point, i also recall hearing of names of guru gobind singhs ji's weaponary instructors, bad memory means i cant recall details again! ps to say guri ji was taught is really that wrong, we all know that guru nanak dev ji went to school where he excelled at all subjects and started teaching the teachers. Just depends on how you look at it. Just to add the above are just questions which im hoping someone will answer and not attacks.

Finally the families of those terrorised by this fool will feel some slight relief. Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave us the kirpan for a reason. And with the kirpan came the responsibility of judging when the correct time to use it came upon us. For demons like phulla, the use of the kirpan is valid and just according to gurmat principles. He terrorised people, raped children, confiscated the hard earned property and earnings of others and was responsible for the death of countless singhs. If Guru sahib didnt give us the kirpan to sort out this type of person, then who is the kirpan for? We may as well say that the only reason we wear the kirpan for now is to the bhog to the degh in the gurdwara sahib then. We have been given the responsibility to judge when to fight, maybe for some this means having to judge a person, well then sikhs have been judging others from day 1, e.g. sukha singh and mehtab singh judged massar rangar and beheaded him. Should we argue that they shouldnt have and that instead a chardi khala gursikh should have been sent to make him see the wrong he was doing!? As singh above said, one person can ask for forgiveness from guru sahib,while another such as phulla spits back at the notion of forgiveness. And for most people,when a tyrant/rapist etc is brought to justice it is a moment of happiness, that in such a corrupt and messed up world, there is still some sense of justice. ps sarpanch, the singhs who killed darshan das were into sikhi and were gursikhs before they killed him.

Does anybody know what is happening with Professor Davinderpal Singh Bhullar? The last I believe we heard was that he was due to be hanged and then nothing since .. ? Is this still the case, if so do we know when? If not are we still trying to get the announcement overturned as i remember we all tried to stop it initially but then everything seemed to fade away?~ Does anybody have any details? Also can i reccomend that in one of the gursikhi pages that we have a sticky with the letters of the all the singhs facing the death punishment. i.e satwant singh, sukha jinda and balwant singh. A few people have been asking for the letters of all these gursikhs, and would be good to have them all one one page.

I am actually due to have my eyes rechecked this week, i'll let you know the results if your very interested. Yes i am a coward because i dont use my name as my log in ID. Yawn. Yes i should stop barking behind a computer and fight with you because i have such a big problem with you. Because obviously all the other issues that we need to deal with are sorted so that i should fight with you hand to hand. Yawn. Get over yourself, i usually agree with most of what you say but i find this to be ridiculous!

Huh?!!? Mate get a hobby!!! How on earth can you have a problem with people saying satnam vaheguru!? Seriously i cant believe you have the time to sit there and think of such stupid yes stupid issues!! You say what right do people have of combining words. Well is the word satnam an ordinary word? is vaheguru an ordinary word? I mean how stupid must you be to compare gurbani jaap to making up your own words!? bapu da lagda. Strange how every gursikh i have ever met has encourged everyone to read gurbani whether amritdhari or not and if they havent yet taken amrit that they should. But then so called katar strict 'gur'mat following 'gursikhs' like you pop up and question why these people are allowed to read gurbani?!! I take it you never said vaheguru, or mool mantar or did any gurbani before you took amrit? What a shambles man that people have nothing better to do then this!! Those who actually want to do vahguru's bhagti will do it, those who want to do pakhand and waste time on this will follow thier own irka filled path.

talikhaak thanks for that link, very good read. harinder, your correct in ur example. but thats not the issue we are discussing here. Nobody is disputing that one should serve their parents etc. What im asking about is where mahrajh very clearly says you should serve gursikhs (the term gursikh has been explained by penji in her posts). she is also right that we dont want to serve other gursikhs because of our own hunkar. our ego makes us think that there must be something wrong with them somehow or other!! from my own experiences i have been sitting on the floor next to a mahapursh and badly wanting to do their seva as gurbani says that i should! but i was too scared, the mahapursh himself told me to get up and koth (massage) his legs and feet. for me it was a great moment in my life that i was able to serve a pyara of vaheguru and i felt blessed to be given that chance. now some will say that this was hunkar and that the sant was having himself served by me! that he shouldnt have told me to touch his legs and feet. but maybe it was because he knew and felt the want and need to do seva that was inside me? maybe he knew that this pappi needed that dust from his feet. true saints are few and far between, but where found they should be served as gursikhs of maharajh and as gurbani instructs us.

Bhai sahib if you look at the shabad i posted it says the 'humble servants of the lord' in other shabads it actually does say words like gursikh, etc and just me penji has given definitions of what maharajh considers a gursikh to be. So while you are correct that we should serve humanity, at the same time gurbani and in particular the vaar from bhai gurdas ji which i hope everyone has read, specifically says to serve the sikhs of the guru, i.e. true gursikhs. so in this respect it is good to go out and search for the true ashiqs of vaheguru and do their seva as well. A lot of people seem to assume that sangat will just come to them, or that the people they live around are sangat. But as bani says sangat is where the one naam is remembered. Sangat is only found with good karam i.e. not easily found, and sometimes we have no choice but to search for that virla diamond whose company is true sadh sangat. sun singh i agree with you, if the great gursikhs didnt let anyone serve them, then the shabads which talk about serving such sikhs would be 'pointless' (sorry couldnt think of another word - obviously gurbani is never pointless, were the fools who dont understand it). Just a shame that the 'sant bashers' of the modern age seem to accuse the gursikhs of having hunkar if people serve them, even though this is what guru sahib has told us to do. If im getting the wrong end of the stick with understanding the shabads which talk about this, please let me know!

Just me penji, i agree with your point that a person would get great phal from serving a true gursikh. However, i guess what im after is, why would the gursikh let you serve them? By letting you do his/her seva are they agreeing that they are 'higher' then you and that you should serve them? As other brothers have suggested in various discussions, a gursikh is full of nimrata, so how can one filled with nimrata allow himself to be served? (iv given my view, hoping others will give theirs) also brother, you say massage etc is ok but not washing the feet? what about ironing their clothes, cooking their food, holding an umbrella for them, driving them around, heating up their ishnaan water (per history). Guru sahib talk about serving the gursikhs over and over. And yet if a person does serve a gursikh then often he is accused of worshipping another human etc. or the gursikh may be accused of allowing people to serve them and hence be acting in hunkar. bit of a strange contradiction almost, being served as a gursikh versus keeping humble.

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh Sorry to take this off another thread, but I wanted to ask about one specific aspect of that thread. People talk about what 'avastha' others should have, and say that true gursikhs should have nimrata etc, which is true! But sometimes our notion of what is nimrata does not seem to tie in what guru sahib tells us. Example, gurbani says that a sikh should maal (massage) the feet of a gursikh who sings the praises of vaheguru. So how can this happen? If the gursikh has 'nimrata' then he would't let anyone touch his feet, or serve him in this way, so how do we comply with this shabad? I dont know how to link the shabads on here, but guru sahib in one shabad says Maajh, Fourth Mehla: I meditate on the Glorious Praises of the Lord of the Universe, and the Name of the Lord. Joining the Sangat, the Holy Congregation, the Name comes to dwell in the mind. The Lord God is our Lord and Master, Inaccessible and Unfathomable. Meeting the True Guru, I enjoy the Sublime Essence of the Lord. ||1|| Blessed, blessed are the humble servants of the Lord, who know the Lord God. I go and ask those humble servants about the Mysteries of the Lord. I wash and massage their feet; joining with the humble servants of the Lord, I drink in the Sublime Essence of the Lord. ||2|| The True Guru, the Giver, has implanted the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me. By great good fortune, I have obtained the Blessed Vision of the Guru's Darshan. The True Essence is Ambrosial Nectar; through the Ambrosial Words of the Perfect Guru, this Amrit is obtained. ||3|| O Lord, lead me to the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and the true beings. Joining the Sat Sangat, I meditate on the Lord's Name. O Nanak, I listen and chant the Lord's Sermon; through the Guru's Teachings, I am fulfilled by the Name of the Lord. ||4||6|| Here I am assuming that it is the feet of the humble servants of the lord that are being washed. But in our perception of what qualifies as nimrata, this act of having someone wash your feet would be considered hunkari and not an act of a humble person. So why does maharajh say this? Also Bhai Gurdas ji says http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=7149 Here he talks about how serving a gursikh is better then various rituals and pilgrimages etc. But then is bhai sahib just giving lip service, or is this actually instructions to sikhs to seve other sikhs? How can we follow this instruction if the person being served is getting hunkar? Personally i dont think so. I thing true gursikhs/sants whatever you want to call them will know that worms like me NEED to serve them. Their daya/compassion allows them to be served so that perhaps i too can be saved. I dont think this affect their nimrata, because the true sant/gursikh/bhai/baba would be beyond the 'i' and as such ego and praise etc wouldnt effect them. I guess the ultimate questions is, what is real nimrata. Please share your vichars and correct me if im wrong.

who started this whole topic? people saying dasam granth shouldnt be parkash start the topic, and all we did was respond (see thread by takshilak). the whole panth is in flames and all you and your frigging sgpc chums seem to want to do,is create more splits and divides. well done. nobody has said that dasam granth must be parkash. singhs are just saying that if it is, it is not desrespectful to guru granth sahib ji, who will always be the guru no matter what. v, say what you like, i dont like playing games, so ill just re-repeat what i said. if the politicians think something is wrong, then they should do something about it. your talking loads on here, but who will put their head on the line and go stop the parkash from happening? nobody, as i said its just to split the panth and the singhs even further. theres nothing wrong with disagreeing with people. but i dont like snakes. bottom line is, personally i have full 100% faith that there is nothing wrong in having parkash of dasam granth sahib ji next to guru granth sahib ji. if im wrong then vaheguru will punish me as he sees fit. i guess when i am being punished for this particular mistake, i'll be in the sangat of great mahapursh and gursikhs who did and do the same mistake. im sure they could explain why they do this galti a billion times better then i could. On a final note, I will say that the reason for us even speaking out is due to the pain of witnessing us moving further and further from sikhi. Perhaps the only time any gurbani or katha done of guru gobind singhs jis bani is done when dasam granth ji is there. The only people who seem to do the parchar are the ones that have dasam granth ji there. if this ban goes ahead and singhs are forced to stop the parkash of dasam granth sahib ji, then most of the parchar will also likely stop. Maharajh kirpa karn. At the moment we need his help more then ever.

singhstha, im sorry if i snapped at you, i apologise for that as well v, lol for you im going to start and finish with the same statement ... what you gona do about it? what double standards? lol if they dont do parkash of sarbloh granth why is that double standards? have they ever said it shouldnt be done? just because they dont do it, doesnt mean they disagree with it! and if you think that they should, well go and make the suggestion then! theres no double standards at all. except in your own head, i believe its called dubda. look it up. and hang on hang on lol your arguing that bhai gurdas jis varran are the same as gurbani and yet your arguing agaisnt singhs doing parkash of dasam granth ji as they see that as the same as gurbani?!?! wheres the double standards now!? iv nowhere denied the great importance of the varaan, but they are not gurbani. the bani from the other bhagats is gurbani as it was guru tongue which dictated it to be such. and iv already said what i think it is, gursikha di bani. that doesnt however make it gurbani. and as for calling writings literature, i think thats ur friend ragi darshana who does that! and no his post does not answer the point. if it is based on bhavna, well then all of us who do joint parkash do it out of bhavna. there you go argument closed, go home and mind your own business. happy? so at the time there were more important issues to be dealt with, but i assume since all those are sorted out, now is the time to argue about this yeh? despite me saying that this is just a game to cause more splits and divides! and sorry but something as fundamental to the movement as the respect of guru granth sahib ji WAS covered by sant ji. every single one of his speeches he talks about satkar for guru granth sahib ji. he also does ragmala veechars. face it your stuck, on one hand you want to openly say that sant was wrong but on the other you cant. punga pe geya! i mean why on earth would he ask singhs to cut off the heads of those that did beadbi to guru sahib, if he was disrespecting maharajh himself? and the bhavna thing is rubbish as stated above, if its about bhavna then just shut your mouths and let us do our bhagti with our bhavna. again common difference were set aside as you said, but now ki gal? everything in hunky dory in the panth that you want to fight over this gal? maybe vedanti and co should open their eyes to whats really happening in the panth rather then just kissing badals jhuthi. remember those who do parkash NEVER started this fight. it was those who were against it. history of old mattas i dont know so i wont even bother commenting on. gurus sahibs actions were obvious in their satkar for gurbani. you can twist history how you like. fact remains that guru sahib gave gurgaddi to guru granth sahib ji which no-one denies. but while being guru himself he had parkash of gurbani done. simple as that. the rest is my bhavna. if you dont like it, aja, do what you want, as i said at the start, what you gona do about it? im getting quite sick of your slimy little comments. some singhs can just disagree with one another, but your more akin to a little sap. dekhi that you dont get smacked with a stick.