Khalsa4ever

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Aargh!! How can they do that?? They haven't even passed the law yet!!! @ @ vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! When will they learn... the more they add to this little bill, the more stupid they look in everyone's eyes! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! And don't forget, SIKH means to learn... vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Awip bIij Awpy hI Kwvxw khxw ikCU n jwie aap beej aapae hee khaavanaa kehanaa kishhoo n jaae ||7|| Whatever you yourself plant, that is what you shall have to eat; nothing else can be said about this. ||7|| You are right, we are the king of all creatures, but with great power comes great responsibility. We have the power to kill others... the mogols had the power (as kings) to force others into Islam, but it was hardly right to do so. With regard as to why its OK to eat plants... one does not need to kill a tree to eat its fruit. In fact, this is why a tree does produce fruit (its Waheguru's kirpa!). This is how I have convinced myself. Khata meat is ABSOLUTELY banned from sikhi (no doubts there) because it is wrong to cause pain to other creatures. Scientifically, to feel pain, you must have nerves. Thus to kill anything with nerves will cause it pain. This includes chickens, cows, snails, fish... Plants do not have nerves, they are incapable of suffering, thus to take its fruit does not harm the plant. Other than that, I too am a foolish moorakh, and although I know it is right in my heart, I cannot truly explain why it is! :T: [font=GurbaniW ebThick]vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!![/font][/font]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! However, to mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan, . One of the few things that all of the modern rehats agree on is the requirement that a Sikh should not eat meat. I was a meat eater. I enjoyed my burgers, steaks, etc., but remember all of this... you must KILL another organism to satisfy your hunger, your gluttony. If in God's eyes all creatures are the same, the same joth in all animals, then what gives us the right to slaughter 20 shrimp to feed our single meal? Kill a chicken to satisfy you? Waheguru has provided us with a more than ample source of food from plants, a source that will not kill another to feed us. And on top of that, with all the release of soy-based meat alternatives which taste the same, have tons of protein, and nearly fat free, why bother to eat meat anyway? vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! You are right, JKaur. We can't hide from everyone, nor can we impose our beliefs on other too. However, the best way may be to try to change your friends and family "from the inside". Try to convince them, over time, that eating meat, drinking, etc. isn't good for them, and maybe propose alternatives every once in a while. vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Vah! Vah! Incredible post birkhalsa Ji! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! There is a slight problem with all of this reasoning... if we start giving back the land to those who formally owned it... how far do you go? If the Palestinians get palistine... well before that the French owned that area... but I think the Turks had that before... and the Jews had that area for a while too (and now they do as well!). So who is the rightful owner? Khalistan, unfortunately, has a similar predicament. Before India was formed, it was owned by the British, but before that there was the Khalsa, and before that there was the Muslims, and before that was other Hindu? rajas... so who is the rightful owner? I think that it may be more benificial if we think about the future rather than the past and help us move forward! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! The biggest problems about saying that we should not change (ie: the Khalsa should stay the way it is) are: 1. The world DOES change. Regardless of if we want it or not, the world around us does change. People of the Khalsa used to be primarily peasants... now they are computer programmers, physicists, engineers, doctors! Whereas before the Khalsa rode horses, swung swords... would any Singh win a fight like that today? Not likely. 2. Many things that the original rehats have stated are now unclear Unfortunately, many things get lost in the translation. Besides those who have achieved Waheguru, we commonfolk have no one to really ask what a gi ven rehat means. (eg: In another post there was that issue about do not kill a black cow as present in the SGGS?...) The Akal Thakt rehat says that we cannot eat khatta meat... but does that include all meat? eggs? milk? The question that we have are endless... and unless it is defined for us, we don't know what to follow... Just my opinion! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! I agree. SO LETS PLEASE STOP THE JATHA BASHING!! If all of you will notice, the first like 2 pages of "coversation" DID NOT EVEN MENTION A SINGLE NAME OF ANY ORGANIZATION. If From this post forward we continue doing this, ONLY THEN WILL WE HAVE A DECENT DISCUSSION. : Pleeeeaseee stick to it! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Definitely a discrace... you can't stop your own gurdwara from serving alcohol???!! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Yeah, I totally don't see how this cow thing fits it... Guruji taught us to treat all living things with respect, and I'm pretty sure in God's eye all cows are the same! And secondly, there are all those people mentioned that Sikhs should avoid... isn't it wrong to just blindly say "avoid all descendants of _____?" I mean, if looking at the Guru's family is evidence enough, that one so great to become a guru could have such evil of a brother, then the reverse is also true and you cannot decree someone's son/daughter as being evil just because their great-great-great-great grandfather was!! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Wow. Totally insightful!! That makes se nse. Being one with god and god himself isn't that same thing. The way I see it, God is actually the metaphysical sum of everything that exists in the past, present, and future. We, and the gurus, are just small parts of that total sum, except that the gurus actually have a link with God, and thats what makes them so great! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! I do hope that we all understand that Guruji gave us the Akal Thakt as the final word on Sikh issues. As such, although there may be different rehats etc, the one that MUST BE FOLLOWED is the Akal Thakt one. (ie: the one way of following SIkhism at the MINIMUM). I'm not saying its a bad idea to have more specific rehats such as seen in most jathas, but to talk about unity, the akal thakt one should be considered the unifying rehat. vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! I know I have been promoting. I sent off a massive email to everyone on my list a couple days ago... I know a bunch of people who have signed (white + chinese people!). Its good to see that we have so much support, even from non sikhs!! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Right on N30 and GABROO KHALISTAN DAH!! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Well Japman, although your analogy is sorta questionable, you do make a lot of sense. But if we continue with that analogy... :T: Q:How do insects and bacteria become resistant? A: They mutate. Q: So what? A: That is how speciation occurs!! (Mutations accumulated over time results in new species, and analogously, that is how jathas will "evolve" into new "religions" on their own. This is mearly an observation. I have seen that many times, some individuals part of certain jathas are closed minded towards other members of other jathas. They treat them as having ruined the spirit of sikhi by simply associating with them. To stretch the analogy even further, what happens when two organisms can no longer associate with one another (ie: mate?) A: Speciation and the separation of jathas into religions of their own. As you can see, this is happening already, although at a very minor level. Just something to think about :T: vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! I guess it is no surprise that akjforever would show up in this topic... Personally, I don't see, and I think no one else should see a Jatha as any separate entity. Cause take a look at Christianity: their jathas slowly turned into different relgions completely - Lutherism, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, etc. If you start by segregating Sikhs into different kinds of sikhs, you fall into the same trap, when someday someone asks you "What religion are you" and you instinctively don't say sikh... you say 'akj' or something :wub: vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Bolleeeey So Nihaaaal!!!!!! Saat Sri Akaal!! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Cause the French are so desperate to do anything to stem religious extremism (esp. Muslim). But the Univ. Decl. of Ind. does take priority over any law that they may try to pass... but the only way of showing that is through the court --> ie: civil disobedience vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! I have found a program called RealAudio Wave Recorder that copies out RA files while they are playing (online or on a computer) and convert them to any file type. Check it out: http://www.rawavrecorder.homestead.com vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Here is a couple lines from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights passed December 10th 1948 at Paris, France: Very importantly: Whaddya think? Source: http://www.unesco.org/general/eng/legal/hu...an-rights.shtml vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! I say the next step after the pen is civil disobedience. Wear a turban to school... wear it in a hospital, see what they do. If they get arrested, that is the time to make a stand. ANY Human rights court in the world would overturn that law without question!! vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! To avoid that pitfall, just don't tie it too tightly... It is better if it looks sorta natural, but held in place. vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Good post Pheena. Violence for the sake of violence hasn't benifited ANYONE. When the Sikhs stood up for themselves at the time of our Gurus, they did so only as a reaction to the Mogols' attempt to kill them. Never did the Sikhs pick up a sword for passing laws, never did the sikhs threaten to assasinate someone because he does not agree with our views (we are above that!). What do you really think threatening the Prez will do? Make him simpathetic? Rather, he'll hold your handy letter up to the world and say "see, told you so! These religious items are making even Sikhs into FANATICS!!". And when the racism picks up, and more sikhs are found dead, while various governments around the world, who formally embrased sikhism, turn against us, you will have NO ONE BUT YOURSELF TO BLAME. Think about it. vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!