SaadhRayn Kaur

I will try to find the exact source of this but I read that the Indian government had 50 Commandos for operation bluestar. Let me just explain here Commandos are like ... one commando is like 500 soldiers. He has been trained for years, physically, mentally and emotionally. He is solid as steel, he is a spy, a soldier, a strategist, a leader, a fighter. He knows hand-to-hand combat, simple sword fighting, rifles, hand pistols, bombs, helicoptors, tanks, complicated warfare, guerilla warfare, negotiations, hostage situations - he is a sergeant, general - a supersoldier. The Indian government had 50 OF THESE GUYS sent into the Harimandir Sahib complex. 50 of these guys is equivalent to thousands of normal soldiers. These guys are so hardcore and so effectively trained that they can defeat so many enemies without a single bruise. 50 OF THESE COMMANDOS were sent to kill the Khalsa. The Khalsa killed 49 in the first FEW HOURS.

You can feel free to look at the prison logs, but I'd be pretty scared about calling Bhai Sahib a liar ! He says so HIMSELF that he met Bhagat Singh in jail, in his jail chittiaan. And also in response to AKJForever's post - I don't think they were in the same jail... but when Bhai Sahib was being released, they took him to Bhagat Singh's jail .

Guru Pyaree Saadh Sangat Jeeo, Kirpaa Kar kay GROW UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you jee. Bhul chuk maaf karnaa, -daas

This is all I know and I've learned from some gurmat websites Some shabads were made after requests from Gursikhs Bhai Gurdas Jee and Baba Buddha jee requested Guru Arjan Dev Jee to make a bani that would help them be able to focus completely in doing Naam Simran - Guru jee was blessed by WAheguroo and composed Sukhmani Sahib There has been a tradition of the Gursikh having a difficult situation and approaching Guru jee, and Guru jee gave gurbani as the medicine This includes banis like shabad hazaray (people say if you read it with your family you will be closer and have less conflicts) Anyway ........... bin thudh hor jay mangnaa sir dukhaa kay dukh deh naam santokhiaa utray man kee bhukh asking for anything other than you is inviting the headache of headaches please bless me with your satisfying Name so that my mind's hunger can be lifted away. vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

in guru gobind singh jee's 52 hukams it says - do not assume a married life without having an anand karaj.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! it's all the Guru's kirpa. 1) "Jap Jaap" (Jap Ji Sahib / Jaap Sahib), "Rehiras," and "Sohila" is mentioned by Guru Gobind Singh jee many times in Bhai Nand Laal Jee's vaars. 2) "So Dar" (the earlier form of Rehiras before Guru Gobind Singh Jee) and "Jap" (Jap Ji Sahib) is mentioned in Bhai Gurdas Jee's Vaars. 3) Bhai Chaupa Singh's Rehitnama also mentions "Jap Jaap" 4) 99% of Gurmat historians agree that the five baanees recited by Guru Gobind Singh jee while he prepared khande-ke-pahul on Vaisakhi of 1699 were Jap, Jaap, Swaiye, Chaupai and Anand. 5) Bhai Mani Singh jee's "panj granthee" gutka, which he developed as a panthic seva, includes the nitnem banees. 6) "Rehiras" is also mentioned in Guru Gobind Singh jee's 52 hukams. vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

umm... that's kind of what i meant. kind of in line with japman veerjee more though. like well.. both i guess... that a sikh can be in politics and still be a great sikh but in order to succeed in politics a sikh should remain a great sikh and i'm not judging mr. kathuria i'm just stating a fact - that guru jee gives his "tej" to the "khalsa" when they stay "niara" i'm sorry for any miscommunication

I fully agree with BOTH my veerjees above. Perhaps Amardeep Singh's idea is good that Sikh Sangat should require you to register before you can view a post.... or maybe there should be SOME members only sections for serious discussions One thing I do know is that I'm glad Sikhsangat has reached this stage in its evolution that it is ready for self-reflection. That's good thing.

Pyare Veerjee NIranjana Singh jee Gurfateh parvaan karnee waheguru ji ka khalsa ! waheguru ji ki fateh! Veerjee, I did not retract my statements in anyway. My statements were misunderstood and I clarified. What I was saying is if you read the Bhagat Bani, interlaced throughout the Bhagat bani is supplementary Gurbani. these nicely mould together, and they were deliberately put there due to the context and relevance of the Bhagat bani and Gurbani to each other. Let me say here that I am calling it Bhagat bani for reference sake. It is part of Guru Granth Sahib and therefore it is Guru GRanth Sahib jee's bani and there for IT IS dhur kee bani and it is gurbani. I do not believe in different Guru Granth Sahibs. I believe that the most authentic suroop of Guru Granth Sahib is the continuous script (ladivaar). I have no comments about rag mala, as I dont' have proper knowledge of it. Please don't assume from these comments that I am part of AKJ, as I actually grew up without any exposure to Sikhi and I still don't know very much about AKJ. I just agree with their stance that ladivaar suroop is the complete suroop. The point I was trying to make about Bhagat Bani is this: Guru Sahib has deliberately and purposefully, with reason and bibek budhee, interlaced Gurbani with Bhagat Bani. This was a thoughtful process, and it shows that Guru Granth Sahib was created through a very systematic, orderly, thoughtful process. I was only trying to say that Guru Granth Sahib was put together by the Gurus, with lots of hard work, and therefore its creation has 100% credibility. The c ompilation procedures of the Dasam Granth are less credible ONLY because over the last hundred-or-so years the composition has been manipulated to contain Banis that are not in fact by Guru Gobind Singh jee. However, if we just look at Guru Gobind Singh jee's bani only, then definately we can do prakash of it. But still, it is not our Guru. We should appreciate that Guru Granth Sahib was so thoughtfully produced, and so exact, and Guru Gobind Singh jee gave gurgadhee to this suroop for a reason. If Guru Gobind SIngh jee wanted us to treat Dasam Granth like the Guru, it is obvious he would have bestowed Gurgadhee to Dasam Granth. please forgive my mistakes vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

my dear brother vicky singh, What do you define as Sikhi? is Sikhi "gurdwaras" is Sikhi "punjab" is Sikhi "turban people" in my humble opinion Sikhi is a universal way of life universe = everywhere Sikhi - the principles of Sikhi will strengthen an individual to make them a better leader and also by becoming a better Gursikh a person will get more kirpaa If Mr. Kathuria took amrit and became a Gursikh, and if he began to follow rehit, he may be a better leader with the Guru's kirpa. that's all I'm saying.

ummmmmmmmmm that has nooooooo relevance !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but yes i remember that stuuuuuuuupid song no more stupid songs............. now i get high on nitnem cause i got guru jee cause i got guru jee cause i got guru jee

the way it links is that being political is part of Sikhi religion and politics are not seperate politics is PART of sikhi a sikh is political a sikh learns about politics and a sikh is an activist and a good sikh can be a good leader (anywhere in the world)

For Sikhs, getting married having kids having an honest job / business doing exercise eating healthy being an environmentalist being a humanitarian being an egalitarian being an anti-racist being political doing naam abhyaas reading gurbani studying gurbani studying sikh texts fighting for the needy and poor and innocent giving 10% to the needy and poor this is all ONE THING there is no seperation.

WOO HOOOO !!!!!!! MAY YOU BOTH BE BLESSED WITH NITNEM AND GURSIKHI JEEVAN AND BECOME STRONG ADVOCATES FOR PANTHIC EKTHA !!!!!!!!! :nihungsmile: :e:

Please don't take it as a joke... I honestly think there should be a "Punj Pyare" Matrimonial Service You go to the Punj Pyare, you say I'm ready to get married, they take all your information the most important information is your REHIT and then they match it to the REHIT of another person and bingo Nothing can go wrong when the Punj Pyare are your vichola (middle person)

Hanjee........ veerjee I absolutely did not mean that they were incomplete or wrong What I meant is Guru Sahib has added "supplementary" bani to complete the message Perhaps my choice of the word "clarifying" was incorrect please forgive me for my mistakes the general point was that Guru Granth SAhib was built with a lot of careful precision - it was Akaal Purakh's dhur kee bani (including the bhagat's bani)... so as a bottome line we should appreciate that Guru jee was not just "kidding" when he gave gurgadhee to Guru Granth Sahib Jee. It was a well-thought out decision in the hukam of WAheguru.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! I noticed a very interesting thing yesterday when I was reading the saloks of Kabeer Jee and Fareed Jee. Throughout the saloks of these great bhagats, the Guru Sahibaan's bani is also intertwined. At some point one of the Bhagat says that in the body of a God-realized person there is no blood. Then right after that, there is a shabad by one of the Guru Sahibs that says "the body is made up of all blood, the body can't be without blood. those who are realized of God have no blood of greed." Therefore the Guru has EXPLAINED the Bhagat's bani more clearly while allowing the expression of the Bhagat. There is another example of this where the Bhagat says "All my clothes have been ripped, I live on only what will bring me close to God." Now this is the state of a BHAGAT, but Guru jee wants to make clear that just by ripping your clothes like that BHAGAT you will not Get God. Therefore, right after that shabad by the Bhagat, there is a shabad by Guru jee that says, "Why do you rip your clothes? You can achieve God in the comfort of your own home." So what Guru Sahib has done is provide some "clarifications" to the Bhagat bani in order to make sure nobody gets mistaken - as these bhagats were such "uchee avasthaa" that these things happened with them and Guru jee wanted to clarify that you cannot just OUTWARDLY ACT like these people and become like them - you need the LOVE in side, which these bhagats had. MY POINT IS THIS... when you look at these examples above, when you look at all the raags, when you look at all of the "ghars," and the mentions of "mahala," when you look at the standardized Gurmukhi script, and the consistency in Guru GRanth Sahib, and also when you look at the fact that some peoples bani were NOT included in Guru Granth Sahib, It becomes obvious that from the birth of Guru Nanak to the Gurgadhee of Guru Granth Sahib, there was a lot of development in the structure of Guru Granth Sahib. It becomes obvious that Guru Granth Sahib was compiled with a very very love-filled, difficult, painstakingly accurate, consistent, methodological, and time-consuming (more than 300 years !!!!) process. Therefore it was a very deliberate and purposeful, meaningful and thought-out procedure when Guru Gobind Singh jee bestowed Gurgadhi on Guru Granth Sahib jee. Your Guru has to ferry you across the world ocean. Your Guru has to remove all your pains. Your Guru has to enlighten, inspire and educate you. Your Guru has to bring you close to the Almighty God. Guru Gobind Singh jee realized that ONLY GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE, in the full suroop, can do this and that is why it was given Gurgadhee. Therefore, we should never waver from the ABSOLUTELY TRUE FACT, that above everything in the universe - all our respect should go to Guru Granth Sahib jee, and everything else is secondary. I believe it's okay to bow to the Dasam Bani, it is the Guru's Bani (whatever has been confirmed by the Panth). I believe it's okay to do Prakash of it and read from it. However our Guru is Guru Granth Sahib, who has the "sacha takhat," (true throne) "vadaa darbar," (magnificent court) "nehchal chaur chhath," (unwavering canopy and chaur) and who commands our highest respect. Bhul chuk maaf karnaa, an style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

Sadh sangat jee, it is guru's kirpa that we have www.sikhitothemax.com and www.srigranth.org If you are not familiar with how to use it, please check out the websites - they provide guidelines... also if anybody's confused please let me know i'll post some tools here I knew that sometimes the word comes as nigura and sometimes as niguray so i just typed in nigur, and sikhitothemax found both words nigura and niguray here is what came up: ____________________________ so ingurw jo mir mir jMmY ingury Awvx jwvixAw ]2] so niguraa jo mar mar ja(n)mai nigurae aavan jaavaniaa ||2|| One who has no Guru, dies over and over again, only to be re-born. One who has no Guru continues coming and going in reincarnation. ||2|| Guru Amar Daas Ji Raag Maajh 117 ____________________________ ingury kau giq kweI nwhI ] nigurae ko gath kaaee naahee || There is no salvation for those who have no Guru. Guru Amar Daas Ji Raag Aasaa 361 ____________________________ siqgur bwJhu guru nhI koeI ingury kw hY nwau burw ]13] sathigur baajhahu gur nehee koee nigurae kaa hai naao buraa ||13|| Without the True Guru, there is no Guru at all; one who is without a Guru has a bad reputation. ||13|| Guru Amar Daas Ji Raag Aasaa 435 ____________________________ ijau ingurw bhu bwqw jwxY Ehu hir drgh hY BRstI ]1][/font] jio niguraa bahu baathaa jaanai ouhu har dharageh hai bhrasattee ||1|| Like the person who has no Guru, they may know many things, but they are cursed in the Court of the Lord. ||1|| Guru Raam Daas Ji Raag Dayv Gandhaaree 528 ____________________________ vrmI mwrI swpu n mrY iqau ingury krm kmwih ] varamee maaree saap n marai thio nigurae karam kamaahi || Destroying the snake's hole, the snake is not killed; it is just like doing deeds without a Guru. Guru Amar Daas Ji Raag Vadhans 588 ____________________________ guru dwqw myly qw miq hovY ingury miq n kweI ] gur dhaathaa maelae thaa math hovai nigurae math n kaaee || If one meets with the Guru, the Generous Giver, then he understands; those who have no Guru cannot understand this. Guru Nanak Dev Ji Raag Sorath 635 ____________________________ vfw dwqw gurmuiK jwqw ingurI AMD iPrY lokweI ]12] vaddaa dhaathaa guramukh jaathaa niguree a(n)dhh firai lokaaee ||12|| The Great Giver is revealed to the Gurmukh; without the Guru, the world wanders in darkness. ||12|| Guru Amar Daas Ji Raag Raamkalee 912 ____________________________ pwTu pVY muiK JUTo bolY ingury kI miq EhY ] paat(h) parrai mukh jhoot(h)o bolai nigurae kee math ouhai || He reads the scriptures, but tells lies; such is the intellect of one who has no guru. Guru Nanak Dev Ji Raag Maaroo 1013 ____________________________ ibnu siqgur pic mUey swkq ingury gil jm Pwsw hy ]11] bin sathigur pach mooeae saakath nigurae gal jam faasaa hae ||11|| Without the True Guru, the faithless cynics rot away and die. The noose of Death is around the necks of those who have no guru. ||11|| Guru Arjan Dev Ji Raag Maaroo 1073 ____________________________ hir kI Bgiq krih iqn inMdih ingury psU smwnw ]2] har kee bhagath karehi thin ni(n)dhehi nigurae pasoo samaanaa ||2|| They slander those who worship their Lord; they are like beasts, without a Guru. ||2|| Guru Arjan Dev Ji Raag Bhairao 1138 ____________________________ kwlir bIjis durmiq AYsI ingury kI nIswxI ] kaalar beejas dhuramath aisee nigurae kee neesaanee || The evil-minded ones plant their seed in the barren soil; such is the sign of those who have no Guru. Guru Nanak Dev Ji Raag Malaar 1275 ____________________________ koVI hoAw goip gur ingury qMqu n mMqu suKweI] korree hoaa gop gur nigurae tha(n)th n ma(n)th sukhaaee|| Bhai Gurdaas Ji Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 32 ____________________________ vis AwvY gurumMq spu ingurw mnmuKu suxY n soAw] vas aavai guruma(n)th sap niguraa manamukh sunai n soaa|| Bhai Gurdaas Ji Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 34 ____________________________ ingury quil n horu ko isrjxhwrY isriT aupweI] nigurae thul n hor ko sirajanehaarai sirat(h) oupaaee|| Bhai Gurdaas Ji Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 34 ____________________________ ingury lK n qul iqs siq gur srix n Awey] nigurae lakh n thul this sathigur saran n aaeae|| Bhai Gurdaas Ji Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 34 ____________________________ jo gur gopY Awpxw iqsu ifTy ingury srmwey] jo gur gopai aapanaa this ddit(h)ae nigurae saramaaeae|| Bhai Gurdaas Ji Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 34

I can't answer this I only believe in Guru GRanth Sahib jee as my GUru but the Saints bring me to my Guru there are so many shabads in gurbani that talk about the chain gursikhs / sants connect you with the guru the guru connects you with waheguru they are all one light i can't differentiate har har jan duee ayk hain bib bichaar kach naahe _______________

if guru jee wanted it then the dumbest, slowest, weirdest person could become President of the USA .. well actually I don't think Guru jee made George W. Bush to be president, it must have been his karma, and now poor GWB is going back to hell...but hahaha.... umm.. my point is Guru jee CAN and DOES help his Sikhs... who follow Rehit... is Mr. Kathuria a nitnemi, amritdhari, rehitdhari Sikh or a moorakh bhekhi Sikhi? Please don't forget that ANYBODY who keeps hair and thinks that's enough to be a Sikh, and doesn't take amrit is a MOORAKH BHEKHI SIKH according to puraatan gursikhs' rehitnaamas. (a fool and fraud)... Sikhs will get Guru jee's support when they follow Rehit.

who is to blame g.o.i.? maybe. but the sikhs are also at fault. G.O.I. is evil ... sure We, who don't stop our fake-Sikh relatives from drinking, are evil too... don't doubt it. it's the hard-to-swallow fact.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! It's your business which rehiras you do - I am so happy that the sangat has respected the need for pyaar and ektha by not making this into an argument. If you want to learn the rehiras that I think is the one full proper rehiras, it is in the gutka made by Dam Dami Taksal However I'd say here that I dont' fully agree with the SANTHIYA (teaching how to pronounce the gurbani) that the Dam DAmi Taksal presents... rather I subscribe to a mix of the traditional "Taksal" and "AKJ" methods of pronouncing words.... I truly believe there's a big river called Gurmat, and sometimes it flows through Taksal territory and sometimes it flows through AKJ territory and sometimes it flows through the other sangats. Everybody is missing something and we'll never be 100% until we follow GURU'S mat by resolving these issues after having a SARBAT KHALSA. bhul chuk maaf karnaa, vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! In my humble opinion (and according to the original original panj granthee by bhai mani singh, and according to many historical texts and puratan gutkas), sampooran rehiras is the rehiras that starts at "har jug jug bhagat upaaeiaa" then there is salok m1 "dukh daaroo" with all of the banis that people regularly do including but not limited to so dar rag asa m.1 and asa m. 4 so purakh , up to asa m. 5 "bhaee praapat" followed by patshahi 10 chaupai "pun raachas", followed by "kabyo bach" benti chaupai, aRill, chaupai and more dohras, swaiye, dohra "sagal duaar", ramkali m. 3 anand (shortened version), mundavani m. 3 with the saloks and pauri that people regularly do, and finally m.5 "rakhe rakhanhaar." followed by ardas standing up (as per guru gobind singh jee's 52 hukams) if anybody disagrees, please post "i humbly disagree." however, Please do not bother posting why. Please post your e-mail address, and tell people, "If you want to know why I disagree, then e-mail me" I am saying this to HUMBLY request that all controversies be kept OFF the board, and if you disagree with somebody please do your parchar on a person-to-person basis, and do not have public arguments as they PROMOTE DUBIDAA and bring us away from PANTHIC EKTHA. bhul chuk maaf karnaa, if anybody would like to know why i believe this is appropriate rehiras, pls feel free to message me. style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!! Hmm... so what DOES amrit offer? Surely we cannot be so naive as to assume that just because amrit gives you guidelines, that amrit does not have something to offer. If we say this, we would be the most ignorant fools on the earth. There is a reality we must embrace - that amrit is a wonderful gift, a wonderful change of lifestyle, and a very drastic and valuable opportunity. Let us look at this example, which is very minor compared to being blessed with amrit: Somebody offers you the position of Captain on the Detroit Red Wings hockey team. You would be simply astounded. But uh oh, wait a second - what a big responsibility that is! You will have to get training, become professional, be a good role model, be leadership material... you will have to accept accountability, big expectations from people... you will have to follow certain guidelines - you will need to wear a certain uniform and act in a certain way. Pretty limiting? Ask the captain of Detroit Red Wings, Steve Yzerman, if he loves his job. Of course he does! Would he trade it for anything? Definately not. Does it have restrictions? For sure! Do the advantages of the job beat the restrictions? No competition - there are tons of advantages and the disadvantages just seem like reasonable parts of the game. What game are we playing here? This is the game of love. What is the first restriction? We must remove our head - be willing to completely surrender our physical, emotional, spiritual and mental self to the cause of the Guru. We must have no doubts when we set on this path - we should not care for what the world says. What team are we on? Akaal Purakh Kee Fauj. Imagine that you are the defence man... this is our team... Who are our captains? Guru Gobind Singh jee and Mata Sahib Kaur jee. Who is our coach? Guru Granth Sahib jee. Who is our goalie? Our own rehit is our goalie. Who are our opponents? Kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahankaar, jhoot, nindaa, vair, virod, and their coach is Maayaa. If we want to play we know the rules. We know the risks. But our skates are like ice... and our ice is like the sharp blades of skates.. this path is sharper than a sword's edge and thinner than a hair... this skating arena is the world... there is no overtime in this game... our sangat is on our team.... our rehit maryada are the referees... All the devis, devtas, sur, nar, mun, jan - THEY WANT TO PLAY THE GAME - but they are our fans... they cheer us on... we can win... and the rewards are endless... theh anek roop nau nav nidh this daa anth naa jaaee paaeiaa.... man jeetay jug jeet... jis no bakshay sifat salaahu naanak paatshaahee paathsaahu... the rewards are endless... all the worldly bliss, but more importantly the true love of the guru's feet... and the internal bliss of immortal nectar of the guru's bani... we can obtain this if we win the game... but there is a lot at stake... we must remain dedicated... We should not have duality.... we should not lose faith in our team... and we should never waver from the high standards of our team... or else we will lose in the end.. this is akaal purakh's game. vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw! vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

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