Sikhs Are Not Hindus

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Sikh religion is a sect of Hinduism?

The general view on yahoo answers points that Sikh Religion is a branch out of Hindusim. Well this is strange for me. I have started reading Guru Granth (thank God I learned Gurmukhi) and the philosophy is no where near or points in the direction of Hinduism. Then what is this halla-baloo about??

I hope that we close this question here and state for the record that the Sikh religion is a distinct religion and is DEFINITELY NOT a sect of Hinduism.

• vor 3 Jahren

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rian30 said:

“I know what I am talking about.”

Well, then lets start with who are Sikhs in your own words. “Sikhism or Khalsa was established by tenth Guru Govind Singh”

Then you must know the Guru’s last words.

“Whosoever wishes to find (Behold) God, let him search Him in Sri Guru Granth Sahib....Where ever five Sikhs are assembled together, there will I be present”.

Guru Gobind Singh did not appoint any human successor in line of human Guruship as per tradition. The Guru declared Granth Sahib to be the ultimate preceptor and the Guru-Eternal for the Sikhs. He conferred Guruship on Granth Sahib at Abchal Nagar Nanded by circumambulating five times and bowing his head before it. He declared that after him, the living Guru would be embodied in the Sabad (Word) as contained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib by uttering the sermon:

Agya Bhai Akal ki tabhi chalayo Panth,

Sab Sikhan ko hukam hai Guru manyo Granth.

“From now on Sikhs would assume the Word as their Guru in form of Guru Granth”

By saying that, he will be present wherever there are five Sikhs assembled, he also gave Guruship to Panth Khalsa.

So, in conclusion there are only two Gurus: The Guru Granth and Guru Panth. Everything else is literature and DEFINITELY NOT Gurbani (Word of the Guru and GOD). May be some of this literature is Gurbani but if it does not follow the theology and philosophy of Guru Granth it is as good as any fictional literature of the times.

I am going to quote from Guru Granth most of the time in this document. I will also use quotes from Sawaiyes and Chaupai written by Guru Govind Singh because Guru Panth has found the Sawaiyes to be in line with Guru Granth’s philosophy.

It was stressed in the answer that “The Granth contains specific references to Hindu gods such as Rama and Krishna.”

True

But again you should be intelligent enough to see the big picture and not limit yourself to names only.

There is mention of God's name Ram in Guru Granth Sahib as well as Brahm, Waheguru, Sahib and others but they directly imply to God not to any person. God's name "Raam" in Gurbani is not as same as Hindu Lord "Rama". Guru Ji never accepted him as a God because he was a human being. Before he was born there existed God's name "Ram". There was a saint named Valmick who used to be a thief. One day he met a group of saints and he requested them to lead him on the right path so those saints gave him the name “Ram” to meditate upon. According to Hinduism it was Valmick who wrote Ramayana 10,000 years before Rama was born. This means that there existed God's name ‘Raam’ before Hindu lord Rama was born. God's name was Raam and when Rama was born his father named him after God's name. In Sikhi God's name revealed by Guru Ji is "Waheguru". So if you name your son "Waheguru Singh" this doesn't make him God at all. He stays a human being. Therefore hindu lord Rama was not a god but a mere human being.

Please forgive me if I hurt any body’s feelings but I have to say this. Many Hindus compare Guru Gobind Singh Ji with Rama but it is only foolish to do such thing. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was a great warrior who always faced the enemy and never attacked from behind. His message inspired thousands of weak and defenseless people to become fearless warriors. He started the freedom movement that ended tyrant rules of Mughals, Pathans and British. He gave equal rights to women and embraced everyone regardless of caste. He renounced all of the old rituals and gave new way of life to people. He started a new nation that would uphold the Dharma, and fight for truth and justice. Guru Gobind Singh Ji fought for humanity and truth. He sacrificed His father, mother and four sons but never shed a single drop of tear. Instead, He celebrated their martyrdom

Let’s look at what Guru Granth have to say about King Rama.

This Shabad is by Guru Tegh Bahaadur Ji in Salok Mehl 9 on Pannaa 1429

raam gaeiou raavan gaeiou jaa ko bahu paravaar ||

Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives.

kahu naanak thhir kashh nehee supanae jio sa(n)saar ||50||

Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a dream. ||50|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1429)

This shows that Guru Ji considered Rama and Rawana as regular humans. Guru Ji saw them both as one. So this means that Hindu lord Rama is not “GOD”. DO YOU MEAN TO SAY THAT IF GURU TEG BAHADUR WAS A “HINDU” HE COULD HAVE USED SUCH WORDS FOR KING RAMA?

naanak nirabho nira(n)kaar hor kaethae raam ravaal ||

O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 464)

Someone calls him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator. ||12|| (33 Sawayeas, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

If we consider King Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take birth from the womb of Kaushalya ? He, who is said to be the KAL (destroyer) of KAL (death), then why did none become subjugated himself before KAL? (33 Sawayeas, Guru Gobind Singh Ji)

Every name mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which pertains to God, is written in a way to signify characteristic of God and these names should never be associated with any human being or deity

It was said in one of the answers “In the entire Guru Granth Sahib, the Vedas are respected and referred to as sacred. Guru Gobind Singh states that the Vedas originated from Brahma and the path of the Vedas is the only path for the people to follow.” Also you said “Sikh do worship Goddess Durga and her other forms in Shakti temples like Vaishno Devi.”

Well, you quoted Guru Gobind in your answer here is Guru Gobind Singh on Vedas and Idol worship in Chaupai Sahib:

nirankar niribkar nirmunbh adi anil anadi asunbh ta ka moorh oochrut bhida ja ko bhiv na pavat baida. (15)

He is Formless, Stainless and Self-reliant. He is the Primal Power, Blemishless, Beginningless and does not take birth. The fools claim boastfully about the knowledge of His secrets, which even Vedas do not know. (15)

ta ko kar pahn anumant maha moorh kcho bhaid na jant mahadaiv ko keht sda siv nirankar ka chint neh bhiv. (16)

The fools consider Him a stone, for He does not know the Profound Mysterym that is God. He calls Shiva, The Eternal Lord, and does not know the secret of the Formless Lord. (16)

Idol worship was heavily discouraged by all sikh Guru's. This was believed to have been a manipulation by the preistly caste to keep the power in their hands. The concept of 'worship' does not exsist in Sikhism, sikhs may only bow down to Guru Granth Sahib for respect, and may mediate on God's name (nam simran). Here are some more sermons on idol worship from Guru Granth

They worship one stone,

While the other stones they trample under their feet;

If the former is God, then the latter must also be the same.

So says Namdev: I worship God alone.

(Namdevji, Gauri Rag)

The stone which man calls God,

Takes him and drowns him along with it;

O sinful and disloyal creature, understand you not

That a boat of stone cannot carry you ashore?

Nanak has found that Lord, through the Guru,

Who feeds all His creation on sea and on land.

(Guru V, Suhi Rag)

The Gods and goddesses are worshipped, O brother!

What ought we beg and what can they give?

The stone bathed in water, O brother, Sinks down in it.

(Guru I, Sorath Rag)

I wonder what kind of “Sikhs” worship Idols after reading the Guru’s message.

I don’t want to hurt anybody’s sentiments but I cannot change what guru says. Here is another sermon from Guru Granth about the Cow, King Rama, King Krishna, King Shiva, and Idol worshipping.

aaj naamae beet(h)al dhaekhiaa moorakh ko samajhaaoo rae || rehaao ||

Today, Naam Dayv saw the Lord, and so I will instruct the ignorant. ||Pause||

paa(n)ddae thumaree gaaeithree lodhhae kaa khaeth khaathee thhee ||

O Pandit, O religious scholar, your Gayatri was grazing in the fields.

lai kar t(h)aegaa ttagaree thoree laa(n)gath laa(n)gath jaathee thhee ||1||

Taking a stick, the farmer broke its leg, and now it walks with a limp. ||1||

paa(n)ddae thumaraa mehaadhaeo dhhoulae baladh charriaa aavath dhaekhiaa thhaa ||

O Pandit, I saw your great god Shiva, riding along on a white bull.

modhee kae ghar khaanaa paakaa vaa kaa larrakaa maariaa thhaa ||2||

In the merchant's house, a banquet was prepared for him - he killed the merchant's son. ||2||

paa(n)ddae thumaraa raamacha(n)dh so bhee aavath dhaekhiaa thhaa ||

O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too

raavan saethee sarabar hoee ghar kee joe gavaaee thhee ||3||

; he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. ||3||

Then at the end of the sermon it is mentioned

hi(n)dhoo poojai dhaehuraa musalamaan maseeth ||

The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque.

naamae soee saeviaa jeh dhaehuraa n maseeth ||4||3||7||

Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. ||4||3||7||

In an answer above it was also mentioned “Sikh Sect was formed deliberately to create a martial branch of Hinduism to fight agaist oppression of Hindus by Muslim rulers.”

Guru Ji states the purpose of His birth in His own words:

"For this purpose was I born,

Understand all you pious people,

To uphold righteousness, to protect the worthy and To overcome and destroy evildoers."

(Guru Gobind Singh, Bachittar Natak)

Guru Ji came to this world to preach the true message. Khalsa was not created to protect Hinduism. Khalsa was created to fight for truth and protect all who are victim to injustice. During that time Muslims rulers were cruel and Khalsa fought them to save helpless Hindus. Then Khalsa fought British and freed the country. As a matter of fact, Sikhs have come to rescue of not only Hindus but also their Muslim brethren many times. There were battalions of Muslims in the Guru’s army when they fought against the tyrants (I use the word “Tyrants” because the gurus were against the ideology and not against any religion or a person. Similarly, the Gurus did not favor any one religion or a person to save from oppression)

Please do not belittle the message and creativity of the Guru by saying that the Khalsa was created for saving the Hindus. It was created to save ALL who are oppressed; it was the FIRST TRUE HUMAN RIGHTS MOVEMENT the man has ever known.

One last thing about Hinduism, It was mentioned that “Do remember that Hindus worship God in both forms; Transcendent (impersonal) and Immanent (personal)”

There are four holy books (Vedas) of Hindus:

1. RIGVEDA: The Rigveda consists of 1,028 hymns (or 1,017 discounting the apocryphal valakhīlya hymns 8.49–8.59) composed in Vedic Sanskrit, many of which are intended for various sacrifical rituals. This long collection of short hymns is mostly devoted to the praise of the gods. (NO MENTION OF ONE FORMLESS CREATOR GOD)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigveda

2. YAJURVEDA: The Yajurveda (a tatpurusha compound of yajus "sacrifice" + veda "knowledge") is one of the four Hindu Vedas. It contains religious texts focusing on liturgy, rituals and sacrifices, and how to perform the same. (NO MENTION OF ONE FORMLESS CREATOR GOD)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yajurveda

3. SAMAVEDA : The Samaveda (a tatpurusha compound of sāman "ritual chant" + veda "knowledge" ), is third in the usual order of enumeration of the four Vedas, the ancient core Hindu scriptures. The Samaveda ranks next in sanctity and liturgical importance to the Rigveda or Veda of Recited praise. Its Sanhita, or metrical portion, consists chiefly of hymns to be chanted by the Udgatar priests at the performance of those important sacrifices in which the juice of the Soma plant, clarified and mixed with milk and other ingredients, was offered in libation to various deities. (NO MENTION OF ONE FORMLESS CREATOR GOD)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaveda

4. ATHARVAVEDA: The Atharvaveda (a tatpurusha compound of atharvān, a type of priest, and veda meaning "knowledge") is a sacred text of Hinduism, and one of the four Vedas, often called the "fourth Veda". According to tradition, the Atharvaveda was mainly composed by two groups of rishis known as the Bhrigus and the Angirasas. Additionally, traditions ascribes parts to other rishis, such as Kauśīka, Vaśīṣṭha and Kaṣyapa. There are two surviving recensions (śākhās), known as Śaunakiya (AVS) and Paippalāda (AVP). (NO MENTION OF ONE FORMLESS CREATOR GOD)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atharvaveda

I wonder which Hindu Holy book mentions one GOD and his worship (None) and which Veda does not mention about many GODS and their worship (ALL). On the other hand, Guru Granth is replete with mentions of one formless creator GOD. The sermons above are enough proof to that end.

Well, I do not want to say this but you said it yourself . Here it is back to you “You do not know much about Hinduism that is for sure.”

It will be appreciated if all desist from making outrageous claims about Guru Gobind Singh ji and Sikhs, based entirely on second-hand writings. They should have the courtesy to mention that the text they quote is _NOT_ Gurbani, and that since it is saying something, which is actually against the teachings and words of Guru Gobind Singh and Guru Granth, it is irrelevant to Sikhs. All are most welcome to discuss the real thing, Gurbani.

As an analogy, I can write today that Jesus was a worshipper of Lord Krishna. 200 years from now, someone can do what the author above did. I do not think Christians will appreciate that.

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"I am Glad I can read Gurmukhi"

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Most of the material above is from various sources on the web. I am thankful to all of them for lending their knowledge to everyone and myself.

• vor 3 Jahren

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Nice write-up. Hope everyone learns from this.