Formation of Orthodox sikh groups like Amish

[rrss]

The Amish are known for simple living, work ethic and their orthodoxy. They are committed to living a simple traditional lifestyle and are very religious. They get by without the need to integrate with 'modern' society and use modern conveniences; they are happy the way they life their life and have a big focus on family. Indeed their lifestyle offers them great health and spiritual benefits as has been proven through studies (there is little incidence of tobacco and drug problems, STDs and other lifestyle influenced diseases and most are serious Christians). They are not interested in converting outsiders or even dealing with them. They lose very small members of their community to the 'modern' world and other Church groups (indeed teenagers are allowed to leave the community after experiencing modern life, but most choose their religion, way of life to be more important than worldly attractions).

This is nearly a perfect way of living for orthodox Sikhs. Neither renouncing family life nor integrating with non-orthodox, but following the lifestyle and values taught by the Gurus. We are meant to be working hard and being spiritual and becoming detached from worldly attractions, which satisfies most requirements. The only issue is the requirement to be helping the poor and oppressed (i.e. those outside of their community), which I'm sure they could do in many ways like running worldwide relief groups and peace camps and sending humanitarian and sant-sipahi envoys around the world, and also allowing 'outsiders' (any race) to join the community if they wanted. It would not be a political grouping by any means and have no political leaders, just purely spiritual and religious as per pure Gurmat values.

Some orthodox Namdharis live in a self-contained community to some extent, but they don't necessarily life a Gurmat Khalsa lifestyle. We could learn a lot also from groups like art of living and others who spread peace and have some good humanitarian operations around the world (incidentally, are Punjabi Sikhs even bothered with destroying tyrants and oppressors outside of India? Or doing sewa outside of Punjab/Delhi where children are dying of hunger?). So we have plenty of 'best practice' to learn from various places to use in the establishment of said group. The existence of the Amish and their being accepted and tolerated in society gives precedence to set up such groups even the USA.

Or are Sikhs too busy just moving to the west/big city to open a corner shop, make a load of money, make their children used to a rich lifestyle, not inspire them so that they become monas and live a comfortable life with worldy attachments, with occasionally the odd person becoming religious (due to past life spirituality perhaps) but still not leading an ultra-orthodox lifestyle? Or are the Sikhs who would be potentially interested in this, more interested in making a pocket of Punjab/Brampton a sikh religous state? (Method above would be much more efficient and practical than fighting the Indian Government for self-rule Indeed imho 'raj karega khalsa' is more a situation of pure and fair society than politically established state). Only 15 % of Sikhs are Amritdhari, and a small percentage of them would be willing to live a purely orthodox lifestyle, purely based on the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji and an orthodox rehat.

How about oxthodox sikh groups forming closed simple communities like the Amish, anywhere in the world which is suitable? Before the 20th century, pioneers regularly formed new communities and groups, migrating in search of better lands for future generations. If I started a community, would you join me? Of course a good set of panj piare would be required for the spirituality and community resources to purchase a tract of land. We could even have it in the Australian outback, plenty of space there.

Daas is a lowly worm who just wants the best spiritually inspiring conditions for his family and sees this in the ideal described above.

[Jangal Da]

I always thought our Gurus taught us to be part of society and not shun the world. I disagree that Amish communities are anything we should model ourselves on. They reject the modern world and other communities, whereas we do not.

[rrss]

There is a big difference between shunning the world (i.e. natural life) and living a pure life (Khalsa lifestyle). We are meant to face up to life and it's challenges instead of reouncing it. We are meant to live the way God has intended us to live, i.e. a natural simple life with family. We are not meant to renounce regular life, i.e. live in caves/wader and beg or renounce family and become celibate. Nor are we meant to be attached to worldly comforts, the best comfort is being attached to His lotus feet and best occupation is singing His praises and best hobby is remembering His name.

Orthodox rehat clearly encourages Amridharis to spend as much time as possible with the faithful and not even eat food with the non Amritdharis. Is Guru ji telling us to mix with society by this rehat? We are to break away from creature comforts and live simple and pure life. Is Guru ji telling us that sitting on our asses in offices in stressful jobs are good? All Gurus worked hard and some even tilled land. They did not sit back and relax and watch television. Are you saying their lifestyle was bad? They surrounded themselves with faithful and had zero need for today's technology. Heck, Guru's established new towns and cities like AnandPur Sahib which was self-sustaining and in a highly spiritual atmosphere. So there is no precedence for this you say? Was it not good enough for Guru ji to establish their Gurdwaras and Holy Cities at Hindu holy sites, why need for new towns for Sikhs? Did they surround themselves by Sikhs and saints or did they surround themselves with faithless and others? Did they encourage poetry and scholars, saints and hard working people or those who lived lazy lifestyle with comforts. The equivalent of 'modern technology' in that era was being rich and powerful. Did they encourage a simple Sikh to wash his own kaccera or hire a Dobhi (washing machine)? Did they encourage Sikhs to read scriptres or play games (video games)? Did they encourage Sikhs to do community service and write poetry or spend time intermixing with 'society' and purchasing non essential goods (malls) and doing gossip (Facebook). Did they encourage living together or living in dispersed communities (phone, aeroplanes). I can give you many examples.

They being perfect masters must have had foresight of this 'modern' world. Why did they not prepare us for it? Heck they could have if they wanted to even given us the knowledge of electricity then and there. But they continued to encourage the simple and traditional lifestyle with minimal attachments, surrounded by other Sikhs, for a reason, I am sure I need not enumerate the benefits of living in an orthodox community in orthodox lifestyle, the way the Gurus and the panj piare lived.

The only thing lacking in Amish lifestyle is that they don't allow anyone to join them nor do they care about helping others. We would accept those wiling to live a Sikh life into our homes. Our responsibility is for sewa and upholding righteousness in larger society, so we can send envoys and humanitarian force out to do this.

[N30S1NGH]

Well rehat should not hinder you to help humanity, if it does its not rehat problem but your problem wrapping your head around rehit and idolizing the rehat to the point that you don't even see humanity, thats the clear indication of karam kaand which is strictly condemned in sikhi..!!!!!!!

For eg-

1. If there is a circumstances like car with people dangling going down the hill and there is no rope. what you do?

I don't know about you but i will take off my dastar without any conscience of guilt on my head or any thinking and use dastar as rope to save the person.

2. If there is a circumstance of some girl being raped and you are being beaten up by thugs too and only way out to help her its throw your kirpan? What you do?

i will throw her kirpan and do the right thing, help her to fight back and save the honor.

3. If there is a blood need from me- i m blood donor and nirankari is receiver or person from indira gandhi lineage is receiver..what you do?

I would do the right thing. I am sorry humanity comes first. We are not pandits..!!!!!!!

If i may suggest to people read lifes/lives of bhai kahaniya ji and other puratan gursikhs. If he were to caught up or wrapped his head around principles around that time no to associate with muslims due to genuine concern about dangers of inflitration then may be he wouldn't have gotten to advait avastha of seeing - sri guru gobind singh maharaj in everyone, including enemies and provided them medical supplies/water/bandages so on.

Once panj pyares were walking towards amrit sanchar place under guidance of sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale. One of kakari panj pyares touched mona by mistake, they start getting doubts/sansa. Sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale gave them ramaaz - later -khalsa should be like sumandar that even if he drinks full sumandar, he shouldn't burp that should be the nature of khalsa..!!!

[Wicked Warrior]

The biggest problem with separating ourselves from the world is that we become insular. We lose touch with the rest of the world. There is a lot of good in Amish communities but I disagree with their rejection of technology. They are stuck in a bygone age and without the ability to adapt, they will die out.

I remember a sakhi of Guru Ji where he went to two villages. The first were full of bad people and he "blessed" the village to stay. In the second, the village was full of good people and he "blessed" them to disperse. Bhai Mardana asked why he did this. By keeping the "bad" people together, he stopped them spreading their "badness" but by dispersing the good people, it would ensure goodness would spread. Like the fragrance of a flower. This is Sikhi. We should try to remain good and act as role models for others. We should help others who are needy. By remaining in isolation, we ignore the Guru's teachings and help no one.

To remain like a lotus unblemished by the quagmire, we still need to sit in the quagmire.