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As a Sikh, i don't believe I should hate anyone. I think the Kaurs/ Singhs and Gurus were a perfect example of this. These extremist terrorists are like the descendants of the mughals. The Singhs/Kaurs did not hate or make an enemy of mughals/the people/islam, they simply fought against an oppressive and unjust ideology. Bhai Kanaiye Ji used to give water to even the enemies when they were thirsty and Guru Gobind Singh Ji commended Bhai Kanaiye Ji and embraced him with a hug. In that sense, justice has been served. To rejoice a death of a person killed disconnects a person from really analyzing the depth of the situation.

Found this good article clearing up many misconceptions. sikhanswers.com http://www.sikhanswe...-view-on-aarti/ From Sanskrit Aarti, meaning the light or the vessel containing it which is waved before an idol, generally in the clockwise direction, accompanied by the chanting of mantras. This is also the name given the ceremony, which for the Hindus is a mode of ritual worship to propitiate the deity. In the Sikh system, which totally rejects image-worship, there is no permission for this form of worship. Guru Nanak Dev Ji at Jagannath Puri Mandir.According to the Janam Sakhis, Guru Nanak Dev Ji accompanied by Bhai Mardana Ji, stopped near the temple of Jagannath, which is dedicated to Hindu god Vishnu. Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Bhai Mardana Ji stopped near the shrine upon which sat centuries of history mute and immobilized. The notes from Bhai Mardana's Rabaab (rebeck) touched the devotees' hearts with fresh fervor. Several of them came to hear the Guru's word. The temple priests felt angry and held the Guru Ji guilty for not making adoration to the deity within the sacred enclosure. The local chief whose name has been described, as Krishan Lal one day visited the Guru and invited him to join the aarti, or the evening service of lights, in the temple. The Guru readily offered to go with him. As dusk fell, the priests lighted the lamps and sumptuous ritual for which the devotees had been waiting began. Twinkling lights fed by ghee were placed on a jewel studded salver, amid flowers and incense, and worshipfully swung from side to side by the priest in front of the enshrined image to the accompaniment of the chanting of hymns, blowing of conches and the ringing of bells. The priests had a complaint as they concluded. The Guru had remained seated in his place and not participated in the ceremony. The Guru burst into a divine song: ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਆਰਤੀ ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ਗਗਨ ਮੈ ਥਾਲੁ ਰਵਿ ਚੰਦੁ ਦੀਪਕ ਬਨੇ ਤਾਰਿਕਾ ਮੰਡਲ ਜਨਕ ਮੋਤੀ ॥ ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥ ਕੈਸੀ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ ਭਵ ਖੰਡਨਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਰਤੀ ॥ ਅਨਹਤਾ ਸਬਦ ਵਾਜੰਤ ਭੇਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ The sky is the salver And the sun and the moon the lamps. The luminous stars on the heavens are the pearls. Scented air from the sandal-clad hills is the incense, The winds make the fan for Thee, And the vast forests wreath of flowers. The unstruck music of creation is the trumpet. Thus goes on the Arati (adoration) for Thee, O' Thou dispeller of doubt and fear! Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught the listeners, how Nature's tribute to the Creator was superior to any ritualistic oblation offered before images. Aarti in Sikhi Every evening in all Gurudwaras, after the recitation of Rehraas Sahib, the Keertan (singing) of Aarti through Gurbani shabads is performed by Raagis (musicians). This is a tremendously soothing experience, capable of taking us directly into the spiritual realms of devotion through music. Bhai Gurdaas Ji writes: ਸੋਦਰੁ ਆਰਤੀ ਗਾਵੀਐ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਜਾਪੁ ਉਚਾਰਾ|| "Sodar (Rehraas) and Aarti were sung (in the evening) and in Amrit-veal (the ambrosial hours) Japji (Sahib) was recited." Once actor Balraj Sahni asked the late Nobel Laureate Rabindra Nath Tagore, "You have written the national anthem for India. Can you write an international anthem for the whole world?" "It has already been written, not only international but for the entire universe, in the 16th century by Nanak," replied Tagore. He referred to the Sikh aarti (ceremony of light). Tagore was so enamoured of this universal aarti that he personally translated it into Bengali. Sanaatan (Hindu) practices infiltrating Sikhi In the mid-18th century when the Khalsa had to live in the jungles because they had a price on their head, Nirmala and Udaasi Mahants (caretakers) took care of the Gurdwaras. During this period the Nirmala and Udaasis came under the influence of Hinduism and introduced Hindu practices to Sikh institutions. Over time the Mahants became more powerful and although the Sikh Gurdwaras were freed from the clutches of the corrupt Mahands in the turn of the 20th century through the Singh Sabha and Gurdwara Reform Movements. Although the Gurdwaras were freed and Sikh Maryada (Code of Conduct) was re-introduced to Sikh institutions, some Sikh institutions in India that were outside of the Panjab or in the hands of certain Nihangs or Sants continued practising some Hindu rituals. One of the rituals is "performing" Aarti. Singing the Keertan of Aarti is a Sikh practise, however performing Aarti by waving a platter with oil lamps and flowers whilst ringing bells is a Hindu practise. *Admin Note: video removed* [/center] Aarti and Sikh Maryada The Panthic Sikh Rehit Maryada, the official Sikh Code of Conduct, states: ਸ) ਉਪਰ ਦੱਸੇ ਸਾਮਾਨ ਤੋਂ ਇਲਾਵਾ ਧੂਪ ਜਾਂ ਦੀਵੇ ਮਚਾ ਕੇ ਆਰਤੀ ਕਰਨੀ, ਭੋਗ ਲਾਉਣਾ, ਜੋਤਾਂ ਜਗਾਉਣੀਆਂ, ਟੱਲ ਖੜਕਾਉਣੇ ਆਦਿ ਕਰਮ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ[ ਹਾਂ, ਸਥਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਸੁਗੰਧਿਤ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਫੁੱਲ, ਧੂਪ ਆਦਿ ਸੁਗੰਧੀਆਂ ਵਰਤਣੀਆਂ ਵਿਵਰਜਿਤ ਨਹੀਂ[ ਕਮਰੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਰੌਸ਼ਨੀ ਲਈ ਤੇਲ,ਘੀ ਜਾਂ ਮੋਮਬੱਤੀ, ਬਿਜਲੀ, ਲੈਂਪ ਆਦਿ ਜਗਾ ਲੈਣੇ ਚਾਹੀਦੇ ਹਨ[ d. Anything except the afore-mentioned reverential ceremonies, for instance, such practices as the Aarti (waving of a platter with burning lamps and incense set in it in vertical circular motion) with burning incense and lamps, offerings of eatables to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, burning of lights, beating of gongs, etc., is contrary to Gurmat (the Guru's way). However, for the perfuming of the place, the use of flowers, incense and scent is not barred. For light inside the room, oil or butter-oil lamps, candles, electric lamps, kerosene oil lamps, etc., may he lighted. In the same spirit, Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale, a Gurbani scholar and saint, clearly explains what Aarti means in the Sikh religion in 'Gurbaani Paath Darpan'. In chapter of Akhand Paath maryada, page 168, Sant Ji writes: ਆਰਤੀ ੳਚਾਰਨੀ, ਦੀਵੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਾਲਣੇ,ਕੇਵਲ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਪੜਨੇ ਅਤੇ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਕਰਨਾ, ਫਿਰ ਕੜਾਹ ਪ੍ਰਸ਼ਾਦ ਵੰਡਣਾ ਅਤੇ ਖੁੱਲਾ ਲੰਗਰ ਕਰਨਾ। "Do Aarti, don't light lamps, only read Shabads of Aarti and Do Kirtan, then distribute Karah Parshad and have open Langar." On page 135, Sant Ji writes: ਹਰ ਪਾਠ ਦੇ ਭੋਗ ਪੈਣ ਤੇ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਤੇ ਆਰਤੀ ੳਚਾਰੇ( ਬਿਨਾਂ ਮ੍ਰਿਤਕ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਵਾਰ ਦਾ) (ਨੋਟ- ਆਰਤੀ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਹੀ ੳਚਾਰਨੇ, ਦੀਵੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਾਲਣੇ) "At bhog of every Paath, do Kirtan and sing Aarti (except first path of an individual's death" (Note- Only Sing Shabads of Aarti, don't light lamps) Under title of Aarti, Santji wrote complete Maryada of Aarti and in the end he writes- ਆਰਤੀ ਦੇ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਪੜਨੇ ਕੀਰਤਨ ਕਰਨਾ ਹੀ ਯੋਗ ਹੈ।ਥਾਲ ਵਿਚ ਦੀਵੇ ਬਾਲ ਕੇ ਆਰਤੀ ਦਾ ਖੰਡਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ। "It is best to sit and sing Shabads of Aarti. Doing Aarti with lighted lamps in plates has been rejected by Satguru Ji." So going by Gurmat and Gurbani, only the sitting and singing of Aarti in Keertan form without lighting lamps is permissible, as lighting of lamps like the Hindus did at Mandir in Jagannath is contrary to teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

zero :happy2: and no I didn't surprise myself :rolleyes2:

really depends on vaheguru's hukam and how he wants the universe to play out just stay with SatGuru jee's bachan and do the best YOU can your only here to correct urself bruv no one else and show compassion to all :D :waheguru:

You're getting confused. No one was symphathising with him. Recognising and acknowledging that the killing of innocents and unethical behaviour also emanates from the other side of this conflict is not symphathising. Just stating facts that get overlooked too easily. Besides, I'm beginning to realise that he wasn't really actively involved in the chain of command of his movement any more, so his death is probably more of a symbolic victory rather than a serious dent to the organisational chain of command? I've no got no sympathy or liking for Bin Laden or his cause. But then I also have no liking of the pseudo-imperialist western attempts at a global domination along economical, political and cultural planks. This type of crap (in my opinion) plays a big part in bolstering movements like the one Bin Laden personified.

The song also says "hey sharabi what you wanna brew, ek glassee turn it into two". Now either the singh who made this is young and stupid and didn't listen to the words before making this "remix" Or taking into account the title of this thread is "it gives a hint of who he is", this fool is bashing Sant Ji. Word of advice, take the video down and apologize before it gets out of hand and your labelled as a hater.

what i like about the sikh community: From my own personal experiences i find Sikh people are generally very kind, polite and helpful. Baptized Sikh's in particular, to me, look very neat in apperance. i like that. what i dislike about the Sikh community: There isn't enough of you guys around!! :allears: Google me!

Thankyou for confirming Mr Admin, ol buddy ol chum, mr varifyer of truths! I salute thee! :khalsa2: @sing559: Life for me is swell thanks! happy u r all good.

Reincarnation was a mainstream belief in Christianity all the way up to 6th century before it was declared a heresy by Roman Emperor Justinian via fifth Council of Constantinople. All early Church fathers (Origen, Jerome, etc) believed in reincarnation. The reasons for its exclusion from faith were purely political. History records that the early Christian church believed in Reincarnation and of the souls journey back to oneness with God. This all changed by Imperial decree some 500 years after the death of Christ. Emperor Justinian in 545 A.D. was able to apply the full power of Rome and his authority to stop the belief in reincarnation. He forced the ruling cardinals to draft a papal decree stating that anyone who believes that souls come from God and return to God will be punished by death. The actual decree stated: “If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema. (The Anathemas against Origen), attached to the decrees of the Fifth Ecumenical Council, A.D. 545, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d ser., 14: 318).” This passage is aimed straight at the teachings handed down from Yeshua (Jesus) the Christ to his disciples that mankind came from God and was destined to become one with God as he was one with God. When the Jews tried to stone him for calling himself the son of God, Jesus responded by reminding them that they were all gods. Later, just before Christ was crucified, he revealed in a prayer that he wanted his disciple to become one with God. Jesus Prays for All Believers John 17:20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. A prominent theologian named Origen wrote around 250 AD about the pre-existence of the soul. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul was travelling back to oneness with God via the lessons learned in multiple lives. He taught that Christ came to show us what we can become. For centuries this was the mainstream view of Christianity but 400 years or so later it became a huge issue and the belief was made illegal because Emperor Constantine believed it was dangerous to the Empire to believe in reincarnation.

How lucky are we to receive prashaadh from shree guroo granth saahib jee mahaaraaj!

The Sikh Channel showed a film made by Khalsa Aid where they showed how families whos loved ones had been murdered by the Police or army had been left to fend for themselves. The Akalis SGPC's Babas, Deras, Sants all ignorned them. It was nice to see the Khalsa Aid volunteers helping out.

For the love of god don't support the EDL in any capacity! There's no justifiable reason for our Sikh youth to degrade themselves along with these bunch of fascists, racists and Islamophobia spreaders. If you want to make a POSITIVE change in please support the NUS (National Union of Students) Black Students' Campaign or UAF (United Against Fascism). http://uaf.org.uk/ http://www.nus.org.uk/en/Campaigns/BlackStudents/

Dalsingh, you consistently paint things black and white that are not so. If the united states did not aggressively pursue oil, another stronger country would. That country would then increase and strength and economic output and eventually consume and destroy us. India does the same thing, as does China, UK, Germany, France, Iraq, Iran, Syria, and literally every other country that matters at all. If there is every a khalistan, it to would have to do this in order to survive, or it would be crushed. The english country that you live in does the same thing, and you reap the benefits. Their are countries who do not fight over these things, and if your conscience pains you then by all means go to one. Since the beginning of civilization we have been fighting over natural resources, and we will never stop until mankind stops being human. I unanimously condemn any immoral acts by US troops in foreign countries, and they should be punished(even killed) for their actions, but I will not condemn my country for acting in its own best interest. When US gas prices rise people end up on the streets, lose their homes, lose their jobs, and many many many end up dead because of it. Its no different than fighting over food or water. Your empty rhetoric and constant personal insults literally mean nothing to me, I will answer to God and not you for my beliefs. Unlike you, I am capable having a disagreement with someone without resulting to personal attacks or gross (usually racial) generalizations. Your inability to do this makes our discussions pointless and futile, so I reiterate my desire to avoid a discussion.

So you say. Which country does not / has not fought to control natural resources? Only those that cannot. I do not desire to engage in a discussion about this. You have your beliefs and I have mine. -W

He got what he deserved. Evil doers meet their end this way. God takes care of evil doers.

You are a sick person. This is EXACTLY why so many people detest your country.

Perhaps i am too emotionally involved with this issue. Your a good guy Singh, I can't make myself argue with you.

Don't support any racist groups just because you think they are doing something good...

I understand what you are saying singh, but this man took many many innocent lives. The only person who has the right to forgive him are his victims, and they are all dead and cannot give him forgiveness. Its like if I robbed you, and some other guy said its ok Wales.. I forgive you. He would have to right to forgive me, because he would not have been wronged... So, for all the victims of this monster I hate him, and I say may he burn in hell. If I show compassion towards this man, then I spit in the face of all the good men and women who he killed. It is actually immoral for me to not desire justice for his victims. If he wants compassion, let him ask it from God and his victims in the afterlife.

Take a good look brothers. See for yourself what lurks in the hearts and minds of such people. Giving someone like this Amrit is like giving it to a snake.