Akaali

Are God and Guru Nanak Saheb jee separate or the same? My limited understanding thinks of Waheguru ji as a limitless ocean and Guru ji as a wave. They are one and the same yet they are different. It wrong to say the wave is the complete ocean. Guru Gobind Singh ji says that the person who calls him God will go to hell. Blessed Gursikhs speak of having Guru Nanak Dev ji's darshan. They talk about making one's body and mind pure so that Guru Nanak Dev ji will place his lotus feet in you. They meditate and see the light of Akal Purakh, inside which they are blessed with Guru ji's Darshan. The say Guru Nanak ji is God, and Guru Nanak ji was all the Guru Sahibs. Baba Nand Singh ji was sitting at the back of the empty gurdwara and being in a state of anand called over his friend the Ragi musician. He said ‘I'm going to give you Guru Nanak Dev ji's darshan. And like a father takes his newborn son outside and holding him in his arms says 'look son - THE MOON', Baba Nand Singh ji hugged the Ragi ji and said'behold Guru Nanak ji in Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guru Granth Sahib ji says ' The Embodiment of Light, the Lord Himself is called Guru Nanak. From Him, came Guru Angad; His essence was absorbed into the essence. Guru Angad showed His Mercy, and established Amar Daas as the True Guru. Guru Amar Daas blessed Guru Raam Daas with the umbrella of immortality. So speaks Mathuraa: gazing upon the Blessed Vision, the Darshan of Guru Raam Daas, His speech became as sweet as nectar. With your eyes, see the certified Primal Person, Guru Arjun, the Fifth Manifestation of the Guru. || 1 || ' (SWAIYAS IN PRAISE OF THE FIFTH MEHL, page 1406) A blessed gursikh I know told me that when she was deeply, deeply in a state of Vairag (sadness at being separated from God), that she had one and only one thought on her mind, day and night, and that was to have Guru Nanak Ji's darshan. One night guests came and they slept in the bedrooms and the Gursikh took the couch downstairs. Lying down, under the covers, in the dark room her meditation, her desparation reached a peak. Blinding, powerful light and love burst open inside her mind - it was Guru Nanak Dev ji's radiance. Afterwards she noticed that she had sweated profusely because of Guru ji's awesome power. " BHAIRAO, FIFTH MEHL: The True Guru has listened to my prayer. All my affairs have been resolved. Deep within my mind and body, I meditate on God. The Perfect Guru has dispelled all my fears. || 1 || The All-powerful Divine Guru is the Greatest of all. Serving Him, I obtain all comforts.|| Pause || Everything is done by Him. No one can erase His Eternal Decree. The Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord, is incomparably beautiful. The Guru is the Image of Fulfillment, the Embodiment of the Lord. || 2 || The Name of the Lord abides deep within him. Wherever he looks, he sees the Wisdom of God. His mind is totally enlightened and illuminated. Within that person, the Supreme Lord God abides. || 3 || I humbly bow to that Guru forever. I am forever a sacrifice to that Guru. I wash the feet of the Guru, and drink in this water. Chanting and meditating forever on Guru Nanak, I live. || 4 || 43 || 56 || " (Guru Granth Sahib jee panna 1152) There is absolutely no doubt in this, but only a rare person embraces love for the Guru Nanak. God and Guru have two forms but they have the same one light. It is by the word that mortal attains to the union with God. The mind is in the body, and the True Lord is in the mind (Guru Granth Sahib jee panna 686) The above seem to equate Guru Ji with God. Guru Gobind Singh Ji forbade the Sikhs to make any such claims. We love our Guru Ji very much, which is understandable, but we should not cross the lines set for us. You are quite right , Guru Gobind Singh did say those very words. But, Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji also says "Oh mystery of mysteries, and that which nobody sees, that I and my Guru (meaning God) are One" You see, Sikhi teaches there is only One Guru, and it is That Guru which shines in the eyes of our SatGuru (s) from Guru Nanak Dev Ji Sahib through all Ten Nanaks, and through Siri Guru Granth Sahib. The human SatGuru is "just a man" and yet this "man" is completely surrendered to Guru Ji, empty of Haumai and becomes a Perfect Mirror of The Wonderous Destroyer of Darkness. When I look into the eyes of the Guru , when I hear His Words, there is NO MAN THERE, there is only the Ocean that Is Vaaheguruuuu. This is what the brother meant. This is a profound mystery that you will find ALL of the SIkh Gurus, all of the Baghats and Saints in Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji mention. Just as Kabir Ji Sahib said "no-one knows this mystery, how I and my Guru are One" , we say that along with them. We celebrate a totally and completely Surrendered and Realized Soul joined and undifferentiated from Ikoankar SatNaam Siri Vaaaheguruuuuu, in that Union we don't see the man Nanak, nor Gobind Singh, but a mortal man who's Soul/Atman has joined with Braman/Vaheguru and has obliterated any sense of self/Haumai and is lost in that embrace. In our daily Paath we read that Guru takes millions of forms (roop) , and yet He is (aroop) without form. Guru said this, I didn't ! And this is a wonderous mystery. I can look in YOUR eyes, hear YOUR words, and look back at you saying Vaahhh Guru. . .Wonderous Guru, for if He is not in your eyes, than cetainly he is not the the eyes and the Word of Gurus Nanak and Gobind Singh. Much the same is Naam: Naam is Name of God, yet IS God, IS Guru, Is Gurubani, IS Naam, IS Guru. The Light that is Vaheguru and the Voice that is His, is so bright that it pervades All Existent, there is NOWHERE it does not exist , yet it seems to us that it shines brighter when we encounter a Soul that has surrender his ego and merged with it , not blocking it in any way. This , indeed , is the Naam (Essense) of which we Simran (Keep in Remembrance) , He is One , without an other , so how could it be otherwise? There is a slight , but at the same time , HUGE difference , between someone praising the human SatGuru Gobind Singh , and The Only One Who IS, the Wonderous Destoyer of Darkness (Vaheguru). Guru Gobind Singh ji has said to us 'ma param purakh ko daasa, dekhan aa-eo jagat tamasa'. I am the Supreme Beings servant, sent here to watch the world drama'. And Guru Sahib has gone one step further in stating that anyone who calls him God will go to hell. In addition one of my veer ji's has pointed out that God is Ajuni (not in the cycle of birth and death) but Guru Sahibs had bodies that were born and died, so they cant be called God. In 'Bandagi-nama' by Bhai Ragbir Singh (a must read for all naam travellers), Bhai Sahib says that he has been amazed by the fact that every religion adores their prophet/teacher as the transcedental being. They have lost sight of the truly supreme being, the Original Guru - Waheguru ji. Guru Gobind Singh ji critises Hindus for believing Krishanji, Brahma, Shiva, or Vishnu are the Supreme God. Guru Gobind Singh ji writes that Waheguru ji sent so many 'witnesses' to tell the world about Supreme God, but each one got themself worshipped instead. That's why Guru Gobind Singh ji was so adamant about not being worshipped as the Supreme Being. So why do GurSikhs who've spiritually progressed refer to Guru Nanak ji as being God? Why did Baba Nand Singh ji say that Guru Gobind Singh ji is God, and the verse about going to hell was Guru Sahib being modest? Why does Guru Granth Sahib Jee say ‘O Guru Arjun, You are Eternal, Invaluable, Unborn, Self-existent, the Destroyer of fear, the Dispeller of pain, Infinite and Fearless. You have grasped the Ungraspable, and burnt away doubt and skepticism. You bestow cooling and soothing peace. The Self-existent, Perfect Primal Lord God Creator has taken birth. First, Guru Nanak, then Guru Angad and Guru Amar Daas, the True Guru, have been absorbed into the Word of the Shabad. Blessed, blessed is Guru Raam Daas, the Philosopher's Stone, who transformed Guru Arjun unto Himself. || 5 ||’ (panna 1407- written by the bhaat (poet)and approved by Guru Arjun Dev ji for inclusion in Guru Granth Sahib ji) ‘In the ocean of this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Lord's Name has been revealed In the Form of Guru Arjun, to save the world. Pain and poverty are taken away from that person, within whose heart the Saint abides. He is the Pure, Immaculate Form of the Infinite Lord; except for Him, there is no other at all. Whoever knows Him in thought, word and deed, becomes just like Him. He is totally pervading the earth, the sky and the nine regions of the planet. He is the Embodiment of the Light of God. So speaks Mat'huraa: there is no difference between God and Guru; Guru Arjun is the Personification of the Lord Himself. || 7 || 19 || (panna 1409) I was always confused about God and Guru and who to focus on when meditating, if I focus on the Supreme Being then I felt guilty that i'm not building any love up for my Guru, if I focus on my Guru then I felt guilty that I was disobeying Guru Gobind Singh ji...and my whiole simran time was wasted tossing from one focus to the other. But Guru Sahib is merciful, Guru Arjun Dev ji explains: 'The Divine Guru is the True Guru, the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord; Nanak bows in humble reverence to the Lord, the Divine Guru.' (page 262) Meaning the Guru we should focus on is God, who is our Divine and Wonderful Guru : WaheGuru jee. This Divine and Wonderful Guru is in the True Guru - in all of our SatGuru jee’s. SatGuru jee is Waheguru jee but we meditate on Waheguru jee and love and serve SatGuru jee. When starting any simran/kirtan/paat I always focus on Guru Granth Sahib, all pervading light - jag dee jot shining equally on everyone like the sun without prejudice. Then I sing Wahe-guru with loving adoration to Guru Granth Sahib ji. This brings my mind to humility and love quite quickly, then I focus inside the mind, behind the forehead and say Wahguru mentally , taking the love and humility feeling and thinking of the Supreme ocean of love all around and inside me - flowing from Guru Granth Sahib ji. Guru Nanak Dev Ji prohibited people to even build any place in his memory, so calling himself God is far from it. Similarly Guru Gobind Singh Ji said the people who will worship him or will call him God, shall rot in hell. I think the problem is that we think of different things when we hear the Word god. I guess most people think of a being which is separate from Creation, perhaps overlooking it from a paradise called heaven. And to say guru nanak was god means to most people that this being left heaven and come down to earth to rome about with the creatures. But guru nanak ji never said he was that being from heaven, he said he's that Being's Servant. So to call the servant the master is confusing. From the little knowledge I have, when I hear the word God, I think of A supreme being, energy, light, ocean of love, supreme soul (param atma) This ocean is what we creatures are living , breathing, eating and talking in. A drop from this ocean is in each of us - our soul (atma). Like a sealed bottle containg water submerged in the ocean. Our body is the bottle and God is inside us and outside us. Our atma wants to get out of the body and merge back into the param-atma, but our sins, the 5 enemies etc keep the bottle tightly sealed. We are separate from God, although God is closer to us than our own hands and feet (bhagat Ravi Das jee). Now Guru Nanak ji had a body too, but there was no seal, no lid, this supreme ocean was moving freely in and out of the bottle. Once when bhagat kabeer was saying 'Raam, Raam' he found himself saying 'Kabeer, Kabeer'. He did ardas and asked Raam (God) why this was and Raam replied 'Raam and Kabeer are now one' (this Is in Guru Granth Sahib jee 'Ram Kabeer ek ha') and there was no difference between saying Raam or Kaabeer when refering to God. The Guru ji's walked a tight rope, they showed us how to love our Satguru. Look at Bhai Lehna ji's love for Guru Nanak jee, Bhai Amaru ji’s love for Guru Angad Dev ji, Bhai Jetha Jee's love for Guru Amar das ji, Bhai Arjun Dev ji's love for Guru Raam Daas ji and so on for all our Guru jee’s. Then having loved their Saatguru ji's, they became satguru just as ‘Ram Kabeer ek ha’..One with God. What Guru ji's objected to was what had happened in Hinduism i.e. people believed Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva or countless gods and goddesses were the One Supreme God, when in reality they were just Beings sealed in another type of bottle. Guru Gobind Singh ji didnt want people to say he was God and forget the Supreme Being, the Param-atma, the ocean of love all around, inside and outside. The ocean was in Guru Gobind Singh ji in all the human Guru’s, in guru Granth Sahib jee and one day in you too. But, none of them are the limits of the ocean, just a part of it. A part of the ocean is still the ocean. Here are some questions and answers from a conversation with a blessed gursikh earlier today regarding these questions. Is Guru Nanak ji's path the only way to reach God, Or can Hindu, muslims, christians and other religions reach God too? To reach God is difficult. No-one finds it easy. Even the majority of Sikhs have not reached God through all their kirtan, akhand paats, daily prayers, and Waheguru -Waheguru repetitions. Why? Because only a few rare ones know what to really do, the others are the blind leading the blind. To reach the One God, a person needs Karam (i.e. good divine actions), the only way Karam is gained is through having Naam in your heart. Most people are so busy singing loudly and perhaps just as a show to other people that the efforts are not accepted by God. The rare accepted ones have Naam residing in their heart. They do simran silently, without tongue or body moving. They are not trying to impress the world. God accepts their simran. This rule applies to all people regardless of religion. Only worldy people see differences between one another be it religion or any other division. The ones who have naam residing in their heart see everyone as one and the same. Can people of other religions generate Karam through their own equivalent of Naam. For example, if a Hindu was to do 'Ram Ram', or a Muslim was to do 'Allah Allah' could it reside in their heart like 'waheguru waheguru'? Would they then be acceptable to God? Firstly, you shouldn't be concerned about what other people are or are not doing. Be committed to doing Waheguru Waheguru in your heart, whether you are sitting with Sikhs or in a crowd of Hindus doing 'Ram Ram'. The person who jumps between 'boats' is going to drown. Now in Gurbanee, Guru Sahibs have referred to God as Ram many times. Even Bhagat Kabeer ji did 'Ram Ram' all the time and he reached a high state of mind. So you're saying that there's no difference between doing 'Ram Ram' for a Hindu, and 'Waheguru Waheguru' for a Sikh? No. Their is a difference. The Bhagats reached a very high state of mind, but the GurMantr (Waheguru) that Guru Nanak ji brought to the world takes one even beyond the place where the Bhagats reached. What do you mean 'beyond'? For example could Bhagat Kabeer ji physically fight against thousands of enemies? No. He did have spiritual strength, but he was weak when it came to having physical power. Now look at the Khalsa like Baba Deep Singh ji amongst others, could they fight thousands of enemies? Yes. They reached the same spiritual heights as the Bhagats, but the Waheguru GurMantr took them beyond that. It is the tenth form of Guru Nanak ji as Guru Gobind Singh ji that gives Khalsa this power. Guru Gobind Singh ji even went down on bended knee to receive the Amrit that takes us beyond the previous paths. Was Guru Nanak ji's basic philosophy that hindus should be good Hindus and for Muslims to be good muslims, hence he never really preached for people to follow the way he was showing? No. You can't rely on all Sakhis being true, sakhis have been passed from one person to another and it changes slightly each time. Guru Nanak ji pointed out the mistakes that mankind was making and basically said join with one God by building your karam, which is earnt by meditating with Waheguru Waheguru in the heart. People followed Guru ji out of love, not force. The shere prescence of Guru Nanak ji was enough to make all of a person's pains disappear. People were moved to the core when they met Guru Nanak ji and followed out of love. Is Guru Nanak Dev ji God? Yes. But join with God. Guru Nanak ji has taught us to join with God & not him. When you meet God you will see Guru Nanak ji is God, and within him you will see all of Guru ji's forms. Why did Guru Gobind Singh ji say 'if you call me God you will go to hell'? He wanted people to meditate on the Power that sent him into this world. He didnt want people to meditate on him. But when you reach the Supreme Being you will realise that there is no difference between God and Guru. Should we worship God or Guru? Worship God. Once a Hindu stared in humilty at Guru Nanak ji's glowing feet, Guru ji said you're not going to get to God by staring at the Guru's feet. You need to get Naam to reside inside your heart. Should we meditate on a picture, or on Guru Granth Sahib ji or visualise the word Waheguru, or something other breathing technique? Concentrate on the One Waheguru ji inside with one mind. Guru ji will lead you and give you the right things at the right time. No one else can tell you how naam simran because they dont know. Look how many people do Sikhi preaching or any preaching of any religion, but how many of them tell you how to do Naam simran? They can't tell you what they havent been blessed with. Even the ones tell you do it with this technique or that technique are fooling people just to to join their group. They real way is do it inside your heart and have faith Guru Nanak ji himself will show you the right things at the right time. Guru Nanak ji himself will show you the right things at the right time. Any other questions? No, thankyou very much, dhan guru nanak ji that he sends his devotee to answer my questions. Finally, the most important thing to remember is 'ek man ik dhia-o' :meditate on the One with one mind, then Guru ji will lead you himself. During the last week, I raised a question of whether Guru Nanak Dev Jee is God and if we should worship our Gurus or only Waheguru? I received many and all very wonderful replies. In this message, I simply want to draw conclusions from all of those replies and write my own views. But before I do that, I want to thank everyone for taking their time, to teach something to a person like me. Now coming to the subject: It seems a difficult decision to make as both sides have good points. It may be true that we should leave it to our Guru to lead us to Waheguru. But also remember that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said he is joining the Sikhs directly with Waheguru, so they shall not need any mediator. As one Gursikh pointed out that we love other people, but if we analyze the relationships, than it does not have any meaning. I guess I personally fail here. I tend to analyze things, and may be overlooking the important relationships. To make the long story short :-), I would like to point out my stand. If our Gurus prohibited us from worshiping them, I think we should simply follow their wish. They have given us the Shabad Guru, and we should follow that. We can love our Gurus, and remember them, and learn something from the kind of lives they lead. But we should form our relationship directly with Waheguru just as our Guru Ji wanted us to. It is very easy to worship the Gurus, but I don't think if they will be pleased with that. They will only feel that they too have failed on us, and we should not do that to them. We should not let our emotions take over, and fail the purpose of their visit to us. Reading the sakhis of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, I came across where Guru Nanak Dev Ji are conversing with a Muslim who looks down the Hindues because they worship hundreds of gods and goddesses. Guru Nanak Dev Ji told him that he too worships Moha(n)mad. The Muslim was not quite worshiping only God. And Guru Ji told him that he was worshiping two not ONE, so what difference does it make if the hindues are worshiping hundreds, they all are on the same lines. Making two from one, and then moving to hundreds, Guru Ji said that it was the same. Some Gursikhs have pointed out the importance of the Guru, using what is written in Guru Granth Sahib. Guru Gobind dooe khaRe, kis ke laagu paae... (Guru and God both are front of me, whom should I kneel to, I am ever a sacrifice to the Guru who has shown me the God). I would take this as appreciation and love. Above all, we should not forget that: Hukame ander sabh ko, bahar hukame naa koee.. Everything is in God's will. Even Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh Ji's actions, their visit and their sacrifices are from God's Hukam. We should not separate the two. We should also appreciate Waheguru for sending his messengers for us. On the other hand, some responses have pointed out the importance of Naam, and not consider Sikhism as other religions. That seems to feel right. Sikhism is to turn people into Saints, and have relationship with God directly, just like other Saints like Kabir, Namdev etc. did. Many of us may not be at that level, but this life can be a start. We can go on and on with this issue. But it really is a personal matter, and if the sincerity is there, God and Guru will show us the right path. Once again, thank you all for your responses. I am sorry if I offended anyone in this message.

Agree with sikhizindabad, we don't need to vote for such things.

Lets clean it up people, discuss according to gurbani and gurmat, if this continues I think alot of people will go under moderation.

Its funny how we can write endlessly but we fail to use the support of our Guru and post according to gurmat. sach miliaa thin sofeeaa raakhan ko dharavaar ||1|| Those who do not use intoxicants are true; they dwell in the Court of the Lord. ||1|| I feel that nihungs who take bhang are patit and are no longer part of the panth, they may dress themselves with bana and shastars but they don't have the understanding of gurmat, their guru's wisdom. ANYTHING that gets you high, whether its natural or medicinal, its an intoxicant. According to several hukamname and sandesh of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib jee, intoxicants are forbidden (please see attached) Sarbat sangat Kabul Guru rakhe ga Tusa ute asaadee bahut khusi hai Tusi Khande da Amrit Panja to lena Kes rakhne...ih asadee mohur hair; Kachh, Kirpan da visah nahee karna Sarb Loh da kara hath rakhna Dono vakat kesa dee palna karna Sarbat sangat abhakhia da kutha Khave naheen, Tamakoo na vartana Bhadni tatha kanya-maran-vale so mel na rakhe Meene, Massandei, Ramraiye ki sangat na baiso Gurbani parhni...Waheguru, Waheguru japna Guru kee rahat rakhnee Sarbat sangat oopar meri khushi hai. Patshahi Dasvi Jeth 26, Samat 1756 To the entire sangat at Kabul. The Guru will protect the Sangat, I am pleased with you all. You should take baptism by the sword, from the Five Beloveds. Keep your hair uncut for this is a seal of the Guru, Accept the use of shorts and a sword. Always wear IRON KARA on your wrist, Keep your hair clean and comb it twice a day. Do not eat Halal (Kosher) meat, Do not use tobacco in any form, Have no connection with those who kill their daughters Or permit the cutting of their children's hair. Do not associate with Meenas, Massands and Ram-raiyas (anti-Sikh cults) Recite the Guru's hymns Meditate on "The Name of our Wonderful Lord", Follow the Sikh code of discipline I give the entire sangat my blessing) Signature of 10th Guru Jeth 26, 1756 Bikrami 23rd May 1699 A.D where does it say its ok to use intoxicants? Instead of putting forth your own mat, please enlighten the sangat by posting gurbani, hukamname or sandesh, etc..

A video camera is very powerful in such situations, we need to expose and remove these masands from authority not by force but by intellect. Good work!

SatwantBeantKehar veerjee, you are complaining organizers should've tried to reach out to english speaking visitors more, how many visitors did you reach out to? Were you able to hand out flyers of what Vasakhi is and educated others of its importance? Its easy to point fingers and blame others but we should also make the effort of educating others at nagar keertan by all means possible.

Dhan Guru Arjun Dev jee (meditating upon whom will release one from cycle of births and deaths - japio jin arjun dev guroo fer sankat jon garab na aa-i-o), says 'Jo Mangeh Takur apany tey so-ee Soee devay' 'whatever is asked from the Master that is exactly what is given'. In Hibernia Road Gurudwara they have this in big letters across the entrance to the Darbar. I used to think this meant whatever you asked for in Ardas is what you'll get, but all ardas's don't come true do they? So what does it mean? The answer clicked when my dad was watching a nature program, some creatures have evolved to leave in extreme heat or extreme cold etc, and my dad said 'Jo mangeh Takur apaney tey soee soee devay'. Even the animals have an ardas inside to survive wherever they are and over time their ardas comes true. Even plants have a ardas to have the sun on their leaves, so plants on my window sill start leaning towards the window. Takur answers all true internal ardas of all His creatures and plants. So people may ask why didn't my Takur answer my ardas? I was standing up with palms pressed together at the Gurdwara after having done Akahnd Paat seva and donating lots of money?? That ardas was lip service - it was ardas for greed not need. Like when people do nitnem, but they don't understand and inside they really want to be out and about perhaps boyfriend and girlfriends. Then their internal ardas is heard not their lip service. Good or bad, whatever your real daily internal ardas is, will be heard and answered over time. When someone does paat with concentration and love and their internal ardas is the same as Guru jees words, then the supreme gifts will be delivered over time. And God keeps giving us gifts all the time, `dida dey laday thak pai juga jugantar kahee kahi' (JapJi Sahib). He provides without ever getting tired but we the askers get tired of asking! The provider provides all the wishes .... the requester asks for all. There is nothing wrong with asking for things because we always need things but unfortuantely we are greedy, so we need to become content. In ardas thank God. Accept pain and sorrow as sweet rather than complaining about things that went badly or Ardas's that didn't come true - everything is for the best: Ketia Dukh bhukh sad mar Eh bee daat teree datar Countless Pains and Hungers continually strike O Giver-Lord, even these are your gifts,. (JapJee Sahib) In ardas accept God's will and ask for the supreme gift of Naam and God's Praises. SatGuru Arjun Dev jee on the hot plate lived upto the true words: Tera Keeta Meeta Lagay, Har Nam Padarth Nanak Mangay Your Will is sweet, SatGuru Nanak jee asks for the gift of Naam' 'Manganay mangan neeka , Har jas gur te manganay' 'Of all the Askings, the Asking supreme is to ask the Guru for the praises of God But God's Name and Praises can only be done if the basic needs are satisfied. Most of the Bhagats were so poor that Bhagat Kabeer jee said to Waheguru ji, without food and shelter I can't sing your praises Having a hungry stomach how can I devote myself to You? Take away Your rosary. (Bhagat Kabir ji, Sorath Raag) Waheguru jee provides. Asking for house or car or a wife etc is not wrong, but why do people ask? What is the motive? Is it going to get them closer to God ? Bhagat Kabeer jee asked for these things so he'd get closer to God, most people ask for these things because of selfish motives (status, to fulfill one of the 5 thieving desires). But then again Guru Arjun Dev jee has said use Waheguru jee for your own advantage. It's good people do paat and ardas and seva of langar and Akhand Paat for their own advantage because bit by bit they might get to the state where they start asking for the gift of Naam and God's praises and that will truly give them the Supreme advantage.

GURU NANAK DEV JI SAID Jo to prem khelan ka chao Sir dhar talee galee meree ao if you want to play the game of love, bring your head to me on the palm of your hand. (the self has to die) GURU ARJUN DEV JI SAID pilla maran kabool, jeevan kee cchaad aas ho-e sabana kee renka tao ao hamaree paas the first rule of dying is to give up all the hope's of life become the dust of everyone then come to me. Some people do ardas and ask Vaahi-guroo Jee for spiritual and worldy gifts, then wonder why they didn't get anything. Disillusioned they lose faith in God! But we suffer from 'seva thoree mangan botha' little seva but ask alot'. Who should we serve? Guru Gobind Singh ji said if you want to please me then serve the Khalsa for nothing pleases me more. Hence, do seva of the Khalsa and become the dust of their feet. Then go to Guru Granth Sahib ji and the Punj Pyare with your head(ego) in your hand. Go down on one knee and with cupped hands beg for amrit naam. Do naam simran day and night, then do ardas with humility and love and see if Vaahi-Guroo jee doesn't fill you with all the blessings.

jassa veerjee, itihas is not prittham to gurbaaNee, please read the shabd I posted again, I bolded BHANG for everyone. Bhul chuk muaf.

Consumptions of drugs of any sort is a BUJJAR KUREHT, you will be a patit after taking it and will no longer be considered as part of the panth until you get pesh in front of guru sahib and punj pyaare. GurbaaNee clearly states this: ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥ Kabīr bẖāʼng mācẖẖulī surā pān jo jo parānī kẖāʼnhi. Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥ tirath baraṯ nėm kī­ė ṯė sabẖai rasāṯal jāʼnhi. ||233|| no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

vaheguru, thank you.

Khalsa4Ever veerjee, thank you!

jite ASTRA bheung namaskaar teung| Although we give shastars great respect, this picture as a symbol is not right and like Khalsa4Ever said it gives the wrong impression, although the khanda is not a rachna of guru sahib, it still represents a deep and powerful message, the chakkar/kara, khanda, and miri-piri tulwars represent a unique aspect of sikhi, and we shouldn't replace the miri-piri tulwars with AK-47s. Bhul chuk muaaf.

VJKK VJKF I downloaded some files that were r00, r01, r02 ... r087. The file name for example is flt-wic.001 and I thought I was suppose to rename them from flt-wic.001 to flt-wic.001.RAR so I did, and now my system sees the files as rar or archived files, when they're suppose to be r00 file type. How do I change the file names back to what they originally were? I CTRL +Z'd like 10 of them, but there are still several that need to be changed back to the original file type. Help!! VJKK VJKF

vahegurujeeo, thank you for this.

Great post, one correction.. It was not Guru Hargobind Saheb, it was Guru Gobind Singh jee.

I was going to start a similar topic. Many may say its all about how much love you sing it with, like Princess said, I agree with it to an extent. If you do your research, the common languages at the time of our gurus were mostly (persian and urdu; arabic script) due to the invasion of mughals, they enforced their language, culture, and religion on the general public, hence punjabi was rarely used. One of the reasons why Guru Gobind Singh jee user Persian to write the fatehnama and zafarnama was so the mughals could understand. It was freethinkers like Guru Nanak Saheb, and other poets like Bulle Shah, Waris Shah who fought to keep our language/culture/religion alive through this oppression. Point is in sikhi, guru saheb wrote gurbani in many languages and praised akaal purkh in many ways to show there's not only one way to praise him. In Sri Guru Granth Saheb jee, there are references to many dialects, sanskrit, persian, urdu, so there isn't only ONE way. There's an argument for and against it, and I'm sure it has been discussed before. In Guru Gobind Singh jee's divaan there use to be many singers and poets, especially during his stay at Paonta Saheb where guru sahib called poets from banaras and other parts of India to share the best of their literary works. They shared poems on topics related to love, hate, war, deceit, religion, etc. in hazooree. But also remember this was before Guru Saheb gave gurgaddi to Guru Granth Saheb jee. I'm gonna quote Princess on this, So can someone explain what Guru Sahib jee is saying here, I've heard some mis-translate this shabd to suit their argument: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂਬਿਨਾਹੋਰਕਚੀਹੈਬਾਣੀ॥ Saṯgurū binā hor kacẖī hai baṇī. Without the True Guru, other songs are false. ਬਾਣੀਤਕਚੀਸਤਿਗੁਰੂਬਾਝਹੁਹੋਰਕਚੀਬਾਣੀ ॥ Baṇī ṯa kacẖī saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī. The songs are false without the True Guru; all other songs are false. ਕਹਦੇਕਚੇਸੁਣਦੇਕਚੇਕਚੀਆਖਿਵਖਾਣੀ॥ Kahḏė kacẖė suṇḏė kacẖė kacẖīʼn ākẖ vakẖāṇī. The speakers are false, and the listeners are false; those who speak and recite are false. ਹਰਿਹਰਿਨਿਤਕਰਹਿਰਸਨਾਕਹਿਆਕਛੂਨਜਾਣੀ॥ Har har niṯ karahi rasnā kahi­ā kacẖẖū na jāṇī. They may continually chant, 'Har, Har' with their tongues, but they do not know what they are saying. ਚਿਤੁਜਿਨਕਾਹਿਰਿਲਇਆਮਾਇਆਬੋਲਨਿਪਏਰਵਾਣੀ॥ Cẖiṯ jin kā hir la­i­ā mā­i­ā bolan pa­ė ravāṇī. Their consciousness is lured by Maya; they are just reciting mechanically. ਕਹੈਨਾਨਕੁਸਤਿਗੁਰੂਬਾਝਹੁਹੋਰਕਚੀਬਾਣੀ॥੨੪॥ Kahai Nānak saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī. ||24|| Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24|| English translate mis-interprets this shabd and we take the english translation to be the right one and misinterpret the shabd. Guru Saheb is referring to gurasa (gurmat) as gurbani and manmat (kachi bani), the baNee that doesn't do praise of akaal purkh is kachi baaNee. Har har nit kareh rasna kaheya kachu naa jaaNee as they may chant the praises of akaal purkh, but they don't know what they're saying like in this translation, guru saheb is not referring to the har jas keertan, because he already said kaljug meh keertan pardhana| but in reality guru saheb is referring to their consciousness, is their mind in the right place, they may say har har, but do they know what they're saying? Its no use if you don't know what you're saying, he goes onto say, chit jin kaa hir laya, hir laya means robbed by maya, they're just reciting mechanically like many do our nitnem including me, so this shabd is not referring to those who sing other songs of praises other than gurbaaNee. This can be true with keertan in today's day, we can sing to the tune of shabad because we like the tune, even though we don't know what the baaNee is saying, this is where gursikhee gursikh kamaave tuk comes, if you want to truly earn the sojhi of gursikhee analyze your every action in this lifestyle that you have chosen and start analyzing gursikhee and gurbaaNee. So ultimately, guru saheb is saying ALL other songs that don't praise akaal purkh are false. An argument against it could be that the bhagats and fakirs sang in the praise of akaal purkh, and these praises are included in Guru Granth Saheb jee, we don't consider them as our Guru, but we sing that baNee because it was approved by Guru Saheb, other baNee that was not approved by Guru Saheb we shouldn't sing. Its like saying, Gurujee, I want to express myself better to akaal purkh than you have done in GurbaaNee, I want to sing this composition by so and so, instead of singing what's written in Guru Granth Saheb isn't that doing beadbi to Guru Saheb? So I don't think its right to sing songs of praises other than gurbaNee, but as long as its according to gurmat, I don't think its wrong either. Bhul chuk muaf.

A Pound Of Flesh There's a story about a saint who lived in his own anand, he cared about everyone and everyone loved him. Another blessed man also lived in the same town. One day a childless woman went to see the blessed man, she said , 'Ask your God to grant me a son'. The Blessed man went to the top of the mountain and spoke to God of the poor woman's request. He came back and told the lady, 'God said that there are no children in your destiny'. A few days later, the woman came back full of joy and happiness, she was giving sweets to one and all, the blessed man asked what she was celebrating. She replied, 'The Saint has said I will be blessed with a beautiful baby boy, my dreams have come true!'. The blessed man couldn't understand it, he climbed the mountain and asked God 'O Lord You said the lady had no children in her destiny, yet the saint has granted her a son. How can he overule your descision?' God replied, 'O Blessed Man, before i answer that, go to the town and tell the my children that God wants a pound of their flesh.' The Blessed Man spent the next few days telling everyone, they looked at him and ran away, no-one was prepared to give a pound of flesh. Then the Saint met him and he told him of the strange request to which the saint replied, 'O Blessed Man, go back to God and ask him from which part of my body he wants it from.' On top of the mountain the blessed man said to God, 'Only the saint was prepared to obey your command, Lord. Even I was scared to obey it.' God then answered him, 'My Saint is prepared to die for me, I am bound by what he says. My saint can overturn destiny, everything belongs to the saint.' Moral of the story: So many religious people want to meet God, everyone talks about whats right and wrong, some people are blessed but they too have only given 50% of themsleves to God, the saint on the otherhand has given everything to God. In the news last night, there was a big debate about letting homosexuals becoming ordained as priests. A Bishop was preaching that they were loving christians in a loving relationship and that their sexuality shouldnt stop them from serving God!!!!!!!!!!! Super ManMat or what? I thought we were supposed to obey God's Hukam whether we like it or not, just like the saint was prepared to give his flesh and if it meant he had to die then he would have. But these Christians seem to have it the other way around 'I am homosexual, I dont see why I should change, I know lets change the religion'! Same way in Sikhi, we are blessed with amrit, but some of us find it hard to keep our head covered or to wear a normal kirpan, we find it hard to avoid eaing meat and eggs.......We find so many things difficult that we say 'It's ok to wear a necklace kirpan, we say it's Ok to go to work without any head covering, and we have desire to eat meat and eggs in us so we justify it as best as we can'. We are blessed with amrit, but we haven't given our head. WE WILL NOT CHANGE, BUT WE WILL CHANGE THE RELIGION INSTEAD. And what's the end result.........have you 'seen' God? No? Well you must still be doing something wrong. Still further to travel my friend, alot further to travel.

Better To Die Than To Live Alone Tulsee Das was a Hindu Saint and was blessed to write the Ramayan scriptures. When he was young he was devoted to reaching God and he struggled slowly on this path. When he got married he was head over heels in love with his beautiful wife, she became the sole reason for his living, everything he did was to please her. One day he surprised her with a gift - she was overwhelmed by his love and said, 'If you were devoted to God half as much as you are to me, I'm sure you would have reached God by now.' The words struck Tulsee Das to the core and his earlier life of devotion came flooding back to his mind, from that day on God became his sole focus once again. Many years later when Tulsee Das was old and wise and respected by all in the village as a saint, a Brahmin pirest came to him. He said to Tulsee Das, 'All my life I've preached and read the scriptures, but I haven't met my Beloved Ram. Tell me what I should do?'. Tulsee Das said, 'It's very simple, all you have to do is climb that tall tree and jump off the branch with full faith that Ram will catch you.' The Brahmin was inspired and climbed the tree, he sat on the branch and looked down at the hard ground below. No matter how hard he tried he couldn't make the leap. Many hours passed and the Village HeadMan (SarPanch) walked by with a bag of money. Noticing the Brahmin he enquired as to what he was doing. The Brahmin explained that Tulsee Das had said that by jumping off the tree Ram would catch him. The SarPanch who wasn't a religious man quickly said, 'O Brahmin, if you like you may have this bag of money, but give me Tulsee Das's blessing in exchange.' The Brahmin didn't take too long to think about the offer and was soon off on his way with the bag of money. The SarPanch climbed the tree went across the branch and with full faith in Ram he jumped off. Ram caught him like a baby in its mother's arms. Sounds too unbelievable to be true? But look for the deeper meaning, there's a very, very important spiritual point to this story. I am like the Brahmin, I do my nitnem prayers and preach to people. I do Waheguru Waheguru meditation and I follow the bits of the Guru's Shabad that I like and ignore the bits that are difficult to apply. I follow half of the Hukam, God’s Order, and my life trickles away like this then I wonder why I haven't met Waheguru ji. When my brother comes to me with a great business opportunity my focus becomes how I can make lots and lots of money and in the background I rush my nitnem and Waheguru Waheguru meditation. My life trickles away like this and I wonder why I haven't met Waheguru ji. But one day with Guru Ji's great kirpa, I hear the story of Tulsee Das. Now I realise I am like the Brahmin, I have lots of things to live for and I am scared of dying. Guru Nanak Ji says 'I have no anxiety about dying, and no hope of living.' (p20). Why is Guru Nanak Ji so brave? Because he has full faith that Waheguru ji is looking after him 'SIREE RAAG, FIRST MEHL: I have no anxiety about dying, and no hope of living. You are the Cherisher of all beings; You keep the account of our breaths and morsels of food. You abide within the Gurmukh. As it pleases You, You decide our allotment. || 1 ||' (p20). So in my ardas, 'Guru Granth Sahib Jee you have given your blessing like Tulsee Das gave to the Brahmin. Give me full faith in your Gurbanee Words like the SarPanch had full faith in what Tulsee Das said. Baba Ji may I follow your words 100% and if it kills me then I have faith Waheguru ji You yourself will catch me.' And dear Khalsa Ji, when you die while alive and are caught by Waheguru ji then you will be called Jeevan Mukhat. While still alive you have obtained liberation. By dying to the Shabad one finds the True Life held in the arms of Waheguru ji.

hahah, I'm not THAT old you know, tea break de lagde :1singh1:

*yawn*

Agree with jassa veerjee, this seems like another futile attempt to play with our history books. If it wasn't of his will it wouldn't of played out like it did. gursikha andar satguru vartai..

Came across this, thought I'd share with the sangat. The following letter of Bhai Mani Singh to Mata Sundar Kaur Ji (wife of Guru Gobind Singh Ji) clearly clarifies this subject that proves without any doubt that all the compiled `Banis` of the "Dasam Guru Granth` are the genuine `Banis` of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and not of his poets. The original letter is given here with Punjabi and English translation. The Punjabi clear version of the above original letter. Bhai Mani Singh,a playmate, classmate and devoted disciple of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji , and a top -ranking scholar of his time. He survived the Guru by many years and was martyred at Lahore. This is an historic letter addressed by him from Amritsar to Mata Sundar Kaur Ji (the wife of Guru Gobind Singh Ji) at Delhi in April 1716. The English version of this letter runs thus:- Letter of Bhai Mani Singh to Mata Sundari Ji May the Almighty help us. Mani Singh makes his humble prostration at the holy feet of his venerable mother. Further news is that the climate of this place has aggravated my rheumatism and my health deteriorates fast. I will have to listen to the healing parable of the tertian fever. But my illness has caused no slackness in the performance of the holy service of the Hari Mandir (Golden Temple). The Khalsa no more hods away over the country and its power has waned. The Sikhs have migrated to the mountain retreats. The Malechhas reign supreme in the country. There is no security for the (Sikh) children and women in any habitation. They are hunted out and killed. The opposing states have also joined hands with them. The Hindalis spy on the Sikhs. All (the Sikhs) have deserted the Chak (The earliest name of Amritsar). The Mutsaddis (priests) have also fled. So far the Immortal Lord protects me. Tomorrow is uncertain. What is ordained by the Lord shall prevail. The adopted son of Binod Singh has passed away. Among the books I sent per Jhanda Singh, there is one entitled "303 Chritra Upakhyans" by the Lord (Guru Gobind Singh). Give that to Sihan Singh in the Mahal (Matia Mahal in the interior of Delhi City). So far there is no trace of the book "Nam Mala". I found the first part of "Krishna Avtar" but not the second. I shall send it when available. There is a rumour in the country that Banda (Bahadur) has made his good escape from the Emperor`s jail. May the Guru protect him. The Guru`s family (the descendants of the Guru) at Khandur have sent five tolas of gold as a gift for your son`s bride(an adopted son of Mata Ji, as all of her four sons were martyred already). Recover seventeen rupees from Jhanda Singh ; I gave him five rupees to meet the expenses of the journey?(?) These expenses will be incurred by him. The Mutsaddis have not yet settled accounts, otherwise I would have sent a draft from the city (presumably Lahore) . If my health improves I shall come in the month of assu. Baisakh 22 Signed- Mani Singh, Guruchak, Bunga P.S. Reply in bamboo stick. (as being confidential)

Dhann Guru Nanak Dhann Tere Gursikh hum santan kee raen piaare hum suntun kee sarnaa

Another one from "anonymous": Sikhsangat.com is my online home I feel free when I come here and roam The Sangat bless me with so much to learn I am the dust of their feet, and hope their Sangat I can earn Here we are free to share ANY concern The admin team are fair yet stern We may have views which clash But the just rules ensure that the members do not let the board burn out die and crash Sikhsangat is an open forum It allows me to realize myself and grow, not wonder else where out of boredom Sometimes we like to impose our views Some debates we may win or loose Through it all we realise its all about Love and humility Accepting when we are wrong and moving on with dignity This has become my favourite online place Where there is no want or room for caste, creed and race It’s helped me to think outside the box with an open mind Always made to feel welcome, where there is equality in all human kind.