sat

cnn has reported this but they said sentences not shortened how do they work that out, these Singh's have served longer than there original sentences :stupidme: trust the dumb yanks to get it wrong again and still the bbc has reported nothing !!

what a load of bull, this post is a wind up by some p.

us, uk, indian governments all piss in the same pot, sikhs will continue there struggle to end of time.

We get no coverage from the like of bbc regarding our sikh marches or rallies or any coverage of our issues even here in the uk, seems we are paying for the trash/ garbage eastenders etc, Is it not time sikhs refused to pay the tv licence is this not where we should start our campaign so the west and others start taking us seriously. like in the 70s regarding wearing turbans on motorcycles etc. A sikh is now at deaths door through hunger strike and again we have protested here in the uk but still we get no coverage, their have been protests year after year for 1984 but their has never been any coverage, your views please.

Khalsa ji i have a question this great mahapurkh Bha Gurbaksh Singh JI will no doubt give their life for the panth, and it will be another valuable loss to us all, will it achieve anything but my real question is, i have heard alot of people talk as if they are already shaheed and their is nothing that can be done and obviously they will not step down but can not the panj pyare intervene here and give hukam to stop this, ok some will say it would look bad on sikhs but bad in front of who, the indian government and badal ! they dont care if he dies its probably what they want, another thorn in their sides out of the way. Also our world coverage on this has been very poor here in the uk there has been no coverage once again by the likes of the bbc etc and thats where we need to start knocking the door and ask why not, after all we pay our taxes and licence fees in some cases more so than the host community. Khalsa ji please forgive me if i speak out of turn here but as time goes by my heart is pained to see this veer like this !

The question here is how come these guys get main stream media coverage yet we do not, even marching through central london or outside of the houses of parliament etc but we still get no coverage.

Singh12345677, people are quick to quote Guru Nanak Dev ji and Guru Arjan Dev ji and choose to ignore Guru Gobind Singh Ji's teachings the fact that Dasmesh pita ji did not put most of their Bani in Guru Granth Sahib JI does not make it irrelevant or any less important because it is still Gurbani (spoken from the Gurus mouth). and what Maharaj said in their first form is as well as and continued in their other 8 forms and tenth form, when they refer to religious robes they mean pakhandhi people and their act of being religious but are actually robbing and cheating people like some pandits and mullahs and sajan thag ( who later became a saint) did in those times, they do not refer to the uniform of the Khalsa given to us by them in their tenth form so anyone who says there is no need to wear a turban ( given to us from the start) and a hat is fine needs to think again, you may have respect for Sikhi but a Gursikh you are not if you do not follow Gurus hukam whether it be in his first form or tenth whether it is in SGGS ji or in DASAM GRANTH ji Rehatnamas etc yes we can make mistakes and choose not to follow them but to say they are not Gurbani or try to make verses spoken by Guru ji out to be irrelevant is sacrilege . Why did the Guru Sahibs themselves wear turbans then and not hats ? they lead by example throughout their 10 forms in this world. It basically comes down to not being able to follow Guru ji's last hukam/s in their tenth form i.e. " take Amrit and keep rehat" ( i am not judging anyone here but stating a fact) so they keep running and trying to hide behind the teachings given in the first and other 8 forms. Bhul chuk maf did not want to get too involved in this unnecessary debate and agree with savinderpalsingh ji but some really misleading stuff being told here by some individuals.

Yes i too have noticed this that when you smile at moneh some just stare like you have two heads (lol maybe its me), but your point about moneh saying amritdharis think they know it all and are supposed to bring people to sikhi. 1/ Well i guess if you tell a monah that they should grow kesh stop drinking etc and take amrit then you are ott and think you know it all ! 2/ but if you say its ok what you are doing (but it is not) and just pray, then you are an ok singh and not a preacher and not ott like the others. its a case of what they want to hear and its not necessarily the truth. recently i took my kids to punjabi school and while they are in class i stay at the Gurdwara and do sangat, when i went to the langar hall there was a group of 5 moneh ages arond 20-30 standing talking and i over heard them talking about whisky, i mean who the hell comes to the Gurdwara and talks about whisky now if i had confronted them about this firstly they would have denied it which would have put me in an awkward position and secondly i would have been labeled ott and extremist and to be honest the committee or others of the Gurdwara may have sided with the majority. but they soon stopped for what ever reason. Some moneh do have a lot of respect for sikhi and you can usually tell which ones by the way they behave for example recently two young girls at the same Gurdwara were standing in the foyer and there heads were not fully covered and when there parents came out of the langar hall the father told them off and said it was disrespectful and that there heads should be covered. Amritdharis who walk around with there noses in the air, personally i avoid eye contact with them. Having been a monah and now Amritdhari i would say there are two types of monah and Amritdharis Moneh : 1/ who has no or little respect for sikhi and just comes once in a while to the Gurdwara and questions everything you tell them about Gurbani and talks in sadh sangat, who would rather be with their mates etc. 2/ who come to the Gurdwara frequently does seva and simran but has not grown kesh and taken Amrit yet but does not do any kind of nasha drinking etc, for these people i have the utmost respect. Amritdhari. 1/ Who thinks they are better than everyone else even other amritdharis and does not acknowledge a hello or a fateh properly and walks around as if they own the place. 2/ Who smiles at people speaks in a friendly manner shows respect to all, and does not engage in idle chit chat but encourages others to follow the Gurus teaching verbally and by example sits in sangat and listens with love. These are the Gursikhs whose sangat and dust of the feet i ask for :respect:

Lol nice one Singh123456777 thats telling them ! :lol2:

Still cant understand how 4 people in the prime of life with weapons could not kill a 78 year old and only wounded him ? :stupidme:

please define what you mean by ott with sikh and the term pagwale both of your points tell me you are not in sikhi saroop hence your lack of respect with the terms you use, could this be a bit of jealousy and frustration for your own short comings in not being able to follow the Guru's teaching or are you anti sikh and sikh saroop. Very quick to point out the pagwale as you say let them selves down, then who lets the non pagwale down when they go to the barbers ?. stop criticizing others and look at ourselves first. There are good pagwale as you say and there are good non pagwale too, do you fit into this category ???

Well if that person has kept rehat up until the point of illness and cant even do Naam simran or physically move to bathe etc then i would certainly think Guru ji would forgive, after all it is all happening as he wills, he forgives us all the time because he know we are not perfect and make many many mistakes all the time. Its only a worry if one uses an illness as and excuse not to keep rehat ,when clearly that illness is in no way stopping that person from keeping even basic rehat e.g bathing and the lying down if need be and doing Naam simran quitly eyes open or closed. but that is not the case here from what you have said. Waheguru ji mare ta kirpa karn ji sorry to here this.

Why do people ask question they already know the answers to, ask your atma (soul) and you will find the answer is no, but listening to it and obeying is a different matter instead we listen to our man (mind), and want justification to follow it from others when clearly we know it is incorrect !

Exactly shaastar we need to stick together follow our Gurus teaching and try to become Gursikhs and the guys you talk about some of them were probably my uncles as i grew up in that era too and yes their was more unity and they were all friends, as i can recall the problem started when ambition and greed crept in nothing wrong with ambition as long as it is done through honest means and then pride came along when one person had a bigger car or house and then jealousy reared its ugly head and corruption in gurdwara committees came along which then caused a bigger divide and finally some who started to preach that moneh are bad and amritdharis are superior but in fact a lot of the amritdharis had previously also been moneh themselves and finally we come to where we are today. But that is what happened here in the uk but then what caused the divide in other countries ? seems we have gone a bit off topic here but that happens some time too lol.

And what of the moneh who call themselves sikhs but do not even follow the basic rule do not cut your hair etc, you are looking at the negative and using the term many but i say you are wrong, there are many many good amritdharis and moneh out there, unfortunately the bad in both seem to get the press, lets look at ourselves first, everyone has faults even in Guru jis time sikhs made mistakes yes there were many who were/are brahmgianis but to say an amritdharis is supposed to be perfect from the point of taking amrit is absurd, amrit is the starting point to becoming a khalsa, but many people believe that one has do be perfect in order to take amrit, if that were the case and that person is already perfect then why the need to take amrit ? 1/ Take amrit 2/ keep rehat (most important) 3/ Become Khalsa (perfect by Gurus grace)

Yes there are some such sikhs and they are wrong if they think they are better the everyone else, but there are also many judgemental moneh who look for negative things in amritdharis but can not see their own faults, there main arguments is we are are not amritdhari so its ok for us to do / be the way we are, my answer to this is why is it ?, you refuse to follow your Guru's basic teachings e.g. do not cut your hair, Drink alcohol, smoke etc but you point the finger at people who are trying to follow Guru ji but do have faults because no one is perfect except Waheguru / Guru ji (who are the one and the same). We should not look at other peoples faults but look at our own. There are many good amritdhari sikhs out there who do some excellent work like Bhai Jugraj Singh ji of basics of sikhi who do not think they are better than any one else and are trying to help the youth, look at the positive people and the negative in yourself. No offence intended but i too get fed up of judgemental moneh always criticizing amritdharis, why dont they take amrit and show everyone how it should be done, rather than look at the faults in amritdharis!

Good post, we seem to focus on all the bloodshed and sacrifice etc which is most important, but forget our womenfolk / mothers of history who are great and should always be remembered and celebrated more. And the sacrifices they made for our panth to flourish, we can never ever repay them for this ! :respect:

India wants to put its own house in order first before looking abroad and making stories, they have had independence since 1947 and what have the hindu governments done since then ? nothing the country is worse of now than under the british, every mechanism that exists is from the time of the british only thing these fools have done is become more evil and devious !! and lachar poona bollywood garbage movies is all india has done in the last 66 years and killed innocent minorities!!

I thought the question was what is and can naam be given by others, but now i am confused as we seem to have gone into the different stages of Naam, no offence veer n30singh you post is very informing and i will read it again when i have more time, just confused with what the op is asking here, i will leave this one to you :biggrin2:

Brahmgiani aph parmeshwar.

May Maharaj keep them in his charan, very sad , awesome voice and kirtan. :sad2: :respect:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73158-manmohan-singh-ranked-worlds-most-powerful-sikh-montek-second/

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73162-indian-medias-most-cruel-joke-on-sikhs-to-date/

i think we are all saying the same thing good and better people come to Gurdwara than not even if only for food better than those who dont come at all and maybe the food will lead to kirpa to jaap naam. i dont think anyone is being judgemental just hoping that we all show more respect to Guru ji and not just his food. :biggrin2:

This is certainly the correct way langar after ardas but our greedy committees would be afraid that some people may not come due to this hence less maya in the golak !!