Nihal

I hope this help...... ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਬਲੁ ਛੁਟਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਪਰੇ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਹੋਤ ਉਪਾਇ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਅਬ ਓਟ ਹਰਿ ਗਜ ਜਿਉ ਹੋਹੁ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੫੩॥ दोहरा ॥ बलु छुटकिओ बंधन परे कछू न होत उपाइ ॥ कहु नानक अब ओट हरि गज जिउ होहु सहाइ ॥५३॥ Ḏohrā. Bal cẖẖutki▫o banḏẖan pare kacẖẖū na hoṯ upā▫e. Kaho Nānak ab ot har gaj ji▫o hohu sahā▫e. ||53|| Dohraa: My strength is exhausted, and I am in bondage; I cannot do anything at all. Says Nanak, now, the Lord is my Support; He will help me, as He did the elephant. ||53|| Teeka Prof. Sahib Singh ਬਲੁ = (ਆਤਮਕ) ਤਾਕਤ। ਬੰਧਨ = (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੀਆਂ) ਫਾਹੀਆਂ। ਪਰੇ = ਪੈ ਗਏ, ਪੈ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ। ਉਪਾਇ = ਹੀਲਾ। ਅਬ = ਹੁਣ, ਉਸ ਵੇਲੇ। ਓਟ = ਆਸਰਾ। ਹਰਿ = ਹੇ ਹਰੀ! ਸਹਾਇ = ਸਹਾਈ, ਮਦਦਗਾਰ।੫੩। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! (ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ ਨਾਮ ਤੋਂ ਵਿੱਛੁੜ ਕੇ ਜਦੋਂ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੀਆਂ) ਫਾਹੀਆਂ (ਮਨੁੱਖ ਨੂੰ) ਆ ਪੈਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ (ਉਹਨਾਂ ਫਾਹੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੱਟਣ ਲਈ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦੇ ਅੰਦਰੋਂ ਆਤਮਕ) ਤਾਕਤ ਮੁੱਕ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ (ਮਾਇਆ ਦਾ ਟਾਕਰਾ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਪਾਸੋਂ) ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਹੀਲਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ। ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ! ਆਖ-ਹੇ ਹਰੀ! ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹੇ ਵੇਲੇ (ਹੁਣ) ਤੇਰਾ ਹੀ ਆਸਰਾ ਹੈ। ਜਿਵੇਂ ਤੂੰ (ਤੇਂਦੂਏ ਤੋਂ ਛੁਡਾਣ ਲਈ) ਹਾਥੀ ਦਾ ਸਹਾਈ ਬਣਿਆ, ਤਿਵੇਂ ਸਹਾਈ ਬਣ। (ਭਾਵ, ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੇ ਬੰਧਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਖ਼ਲਾਸੀ ਹਾਸਲ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਹੀ ਇਕੋ ਇਕ ਵਸੀਲਾ ਹੈ)।੫੩। Teeka Freed Kote Wala teeka ਹਮਾਰਾ ਬਲ ਸਭ ਛੁਟ ਗਇਆ ਹੈ ਔਰ ਸਰੀਰ ਮੇਂ ਬੰਧਨ ਪੜ ਗਏ ਹੈਂ ਅਬ ਅੰਤ ਕਾ ਔਸਰ ਹੈ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਕੀਆ ਕੋਈ ਉਪਾਉ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਤਾ। ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਹਤੇ ਹੈਂ ਅਬ ਹਰ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰ ਕਰਕੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਓਟ ਹੈ ਜੈਸੇ ਆਪ ਨੇ ਹਰਿ ਹੋ ਕਰ ਗਜ ਕੀ ਰਖ੍ਯਾ ਕਰੀ ਥੀ ਤਿਸ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ ਭੀ ਸਹਾਇਤਾ ਕਰੋ॥੫੩॥ ਇਸ ਪਰੀਖ੍ਯਾ ਰੂਪ ਸ਼ਲੋਕ ਕੋ ਪੜ੍ਹਕਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਨੰਦ ਪੁਰ ਜੀ ਸੇ ੧ ਸ਼ਲੋਕ ਕਰ ਉੱਤ੍ਰ ਲਿਖਾ ਭਾਈ ਬੰਨੋਂ ਕੀ ਬੀੜ ਮੇਂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧੦ ਭੀ ਲਿਖਾ ਹੈ॥

Just because one says he heard it in 'katha' or a 'sant' told me doesnt make it true. To make a statement like that you need to have proof.

Sarabjeet, where do you get this from? No puratan granth states this.

Please add 8 jaaps to the ardas akaal

thanks everyone, i was able to pick one up for a tenner from sikh missionary

do you know how much it is?

Fateh Anyone know where i can get gurbani path darpan by Sant Gurbachan Singh from london thanks

bump

bhai nirmal singh is truly a legend. ive got no idea why the admin deleted your post. hopefully they can explain

Guroooo Guroooo Guroooo LoL R U MAD!!

ssa to you and happy vaisakhi if you were there you would know it was a little fight and it should be kept at that. since theres no need to go over it when it was just over mixed signals between people.

surinderjit, if your looking for puratan shastar look at: oriental-arms.com akaalarms.com ashokaarts.com all these sites sell good shastar.

veer ji ive seen most of the new shastar made now days and their poor quality and unbalanced. i would rather buy puratan shastar as the materials and the way the are made are usually better. please if anyone knows where to get shastar in amritsar please reply

if you read the description it says 'puratan design' and 'made on order only'. hope that answers your question

thanks veer ji but those shastar are not puratan. they are imitations. i am going india in the coming weeks and wanted to know where to go in amritsar

does anyone know where to go to get puratan shastar in amritsar. wjkk wjkf

Anyone who wants answers to the running of the gurdwara are being oppressed in this way. I don't think something like this has ever happened before. The largest Gurdwara in Europe and the Committee have been treating it as their own for too many years now. How can anyone be banned from going to the Gurdwara. According to the committee to go to the Gurdwara a 'License' is required and thats been revoked, so visiting the Gurdwara will be tresspassing.

Below is the reply sent back: Please read thoroughly. Your ref: HSW/29580/2 1st March 2008 Winckworth Sherwood Solicitors 35 Great Peter Street Westminster London WS1P 3LR Dear Sir Re: Gurdwara Sri Guru Singh Sabha Southall. Your letter of 28th received with thanks. Its unfortunate that you have omitted to reply to our letter sent on 7th Feb 08 and more importantly failed to even acknowledge the proposals attached to it. I have tried to resolve this matter amicably and co-operated fully with all the initiatives to find a resolution that best serves the greater philosophical and community interests. My many dialogues with the police, the Working Group and yourselves and my written submissions therein of proposals are at hand to prove my willingness to accept a reasonable compromise. As previously stated I reserve and safeguard my position of a defence and/or counter claim should your client seek a restrain order, an injunction or proceed to make any other claim against my interest in this or any other related matter. I strongly object to any ex-parte orders being applied to me and would appreciate if you would kindly reply to all our requests to see minutes of executive meetings relating to: My suspension in around 18th February 2006 and expulsion around April 2006 and a copy of the investigations conducted, as per requirement of the relevant clause in the Constitution, to substantiate their action against us. Kindly refer me to the constitutional power that allowed the Committee to suspend my membership rights with immediate effect. Approval of agenda for AGM – Feb 06, Aug 06, Feb 07, Aug 07 AND Feb 2008 Approval of your appointment to advise and terms of reference of your appointment and Copies of the Minutes of AGM – Feb 06, Aug 06, Feb 07, Aug 07 together with information requested in my letter of 30th January 2008. Copies of all the outstanding documents I have requested to date since September 2004. The General Secretary occupies a position of trust on a voluntary basis and as such should devote adequate and requisite time to serve his position. If he now finds that he can’t put in the required time or lacks competence to attend to duties of his office, he is at liberty to review his continuation of office. You appointment is not objectionable from any other point other than that it is a further unnecessary waste of Gurdwara finances. My arguments with the leadership of the committee are not personal vendettas but originate from our religious and moral duties to seek to deliver better governance to the Gurdwara. I confirm that I had no intention of causing any disruption, as you suggest, at the AGM of 17th February 2008, however we intended to exercise our democratic right of requesting members to support our reinstatement of membership and question committee’s exertion of excessive authority and wisdom contrary to the ideals of Sikh philosophy. No one was attacked by our protesters. The events that unfolded inside the meeting reflect your client’s inappropriate management style in relation to these religious premises and the resulting violation of Guru’s darbar sanctity. My approach has been to reason with the executive through the written dialogue but unfortunately they chose to ignore our letters. I supported wholeheartedly the Working Group initiatives to resolve the matters. The extracts quoted from the only Working Group delegate to give a written report fully explain the obstructive nature of your clients. The absence of any members motions in general body meetings to date and continual denial of our notices to date are again vindicating our position. Your allegations of me causing disturbance around the Gurdwara stage is again incorrect. I did not attack anyone and to date no disturbance arose out of my presence there. I wish also to see the sanctity of the Gurdwara to be maintained and would support such requests without question. On Sunday 3rd February 2008 the opposition speaker, in my presence, referred to mismanagement of the Gurdwara resources and we do have a case of £4MILLION that seems to be carelessly wasted and no details have been given to the Sangat who donated this money. The issues of committee’s undemocratic malpractices at election time were also challenged. Your client’s claim of drunken people being part of our campaign is strongly refuted, and I stress that it is a practice strongly associated with the committee at each election time of past years. The arguments are about policies and details of administration and not, as suggested by you, an attack on personalities. The trustee’s tendency to view opposing views as hostile is unfortunate as our intentions are to seek a better governance of the Gurdwara in line with Sikh doctrines and democratic principles of civilised society via violence free general body meetings. The violent incident within the confines of the AGM on 17th February 2008 and four earlier counts of violence at the Gurdwara during current committee control speaks volumes for my case. I agree with you that there is no place for such behaviour at the Gurdwara. Perhaps, you would kindly remind us the opportunities afforded by the management for members to make their complaints heard. Please refer me to any meetings where member’s issues have been accepted into any general body meetings of past 10 years to justify their claim of a proper process being allowed to proceed? To date my conduct has never been other than to support the sanctity of the Gurdwara and to uphold the law so that the interests of the Gurdwara are safeguarded. Others and I have been the victims of violence and intimidation at the Gurdwara and no evidence has emerged from any quarter including the Gurdwara CCTV or the committee. Perhaps you clients can be the best people to state the truth behind each of the violent incidents that have occurred during their control? It would help everyone if they may also account the details of their support for legal remedies to ensure justice for the victims. I believe the byelaws 9 and 10 are in present form oppressive and infringe on the members rights which are already only little protected by the constitution. This sort of heavy-handed approach is the underlying reason for the tensions at the Gurdwara and I intend to make this known to the Sangat. There need to be safeguards against abuse of authority by the committee in addition to byelaws to check member’s behaviour. I regret your decision to deny me entry to the Gurdwaras is again unconstitutional and put you on notice to allow me the opportunity of a rightful defence in the event of any legal attempt, by your client, to obtain any restraining order or injunction order against me. The suggestion of trespass in Gurdwara premises is again very unfortunate and ill advised likely to exasperate the already tense situation. This would indeed be an affront to the sanctity of the Gurughar and would invite humiliation of the Sikh community. Is it worth to put at risk the great ideals of Sikh spirituality for politics sake? We need to re-examine our positions if we are sincere to the very objectives of a Gurdwara. Your client’s position is indeed very clearly unfortunate and I request that they need to re-evaluate their approach in view of the potential of tremendously grave damage to the very cause they claim to be serving. If serving in a Gurdwara has not made them realise the worthlessness of their arrogant style of management of a spiritual place then my pleading letter is unlikely to convince them. Every phrase of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji invokes man to imbibe utmost humility when dealing with the Sangat of the Guru. We suggest a little more listening than dictating would not harm anyone. Now to come to our objectives of being involved in this exercise in the first place, let us be clear that we were dragged into this situation by the leadership of this Gurdwara. After a humiliating and costly legal defeat, we were stripped of our membership to stop us talking at the February 2006 AGM. All our philosophical pleading with the committee failed to produce any common sense approach but pushed us further and further into picking up a political stand against your client’s oppression. We were let down by the community that we had always admired resulting in a disgust in our attitudes that we felt duty bound to face this challenge of reversing ever descending behaviour of people in Gurdwara management. It is ironic that your clients have not learnt any lessons out of these sad events but wish to continue denying justice to the very people they claim to serve (members). The hypocrisy is unbearable from where we stand and it destroys our beliefs in human nature and even God. What is it that your client wishes to impress on me? Use of public money for such vendettas is indeed incompetence to do the job right in the first place. I am grateful for your suggestion to appoint a legal representative but quite frankly, I do not wish to fight any legal battle where the costs are going to be borne by the Gurdwara and eventually the Sangat. I will do the best I can for the moment and if your client continues to push me into a corner I may be forced to reconsider. To save public money that is clearly donated for religious purposes I suggest your legal bill should be paid by the individuals involved rather than the Gurdwara. You are right our first main objective is to ensure independency and fairness to the membership recruitment process, election candidate compliance process and the election itself, outside the control and influence of the retiring committee or the opposition groups. It is hoped that future membership lists would comprise of only legitimate members that can be easily verified to an established public database, e.g. the Electoral registers of the catchments of the Gurdwara. This would, we hope, reduce tensions caused by the apparent, perceived or real, vested conflicts of interest inherent in the present system. There is widespread belief and some evidence of abuse of ballot and historically it seems to be an accepted normal practice and you will agree such practice has no place in a religious institution. Committee’s positive response would lessen the difficulties of realising the longer-term goals. It is hoped, the above measure should address much of the conflict The other immediate objective is to ensure that the ambiguities and conflict causing clauses within the constitution are removed or amended with the approval of the general body so that future conflict and tensions are safely managed and Gurdwara’s interests are not jeopardised by political ambitions of individuals or groups or their respective egos. We have held talks with both the president and the general secretary of this Gurdwara on the above and submitted written proposals but to date not had any written response from them. The longer-term objectives are to help to devise systems and procedures that remove arbitrary decision-making and egoistic self-gratifying project undertakings and put in place procedures that can be independently re-examined or audited for developing comprehensive management systems suited to the now complex and wide scope of operations of the Gurdwara. It is hoped this approach would produce a focus on serving the needs of the community rather than indulge in unnecessary and unaffordable grand undertakings. I would like to stress that, in my view, most Sikh Gurdwaras in the UK are generally administered under very poor management systems that were adequate for the first generation undertakings of modest budgets. However the current budgets are large and pose greater temptations and challenges to human weaknesses and require comprehensive management systems and talent development to take these institutions to ever-greater heights of serving their memberships and humanity at large. A lead from GSGSSS, the biggest Gurdwara in Europe, would help in these developments and rid the Gurdwaras from recurring personality-based domination and resulting conflict. I seek to promote an environment of service with humility to the needs of humanity in line with the teachings of our Gurus instead of personality promoting platforms of today. Your client’s unconstitutional decision to ban me from all Singh Sabha premises shows their ulterior desire to quieten all opposition voices so that their true natures remain hidden behind a false cloak of nobility to serve the Gurdwara. Your client’s ludicrous idea of a licence to enter a Gurdwara and their decision to ban a human being from a Gurughar is indicative of their failure to understand their duties in respect of seva in such religious places. I regret that I am unable to obey such a decision. I believe that my actions are inline with my religious duties and are constrained within my democratic rights of this country and I intend to continue in the same manner. If your clients believe that their position is more appropriate and my actions are believed by them to be damaging the interests of the Gurdwara, members and the Sangat then they are duty bound to seek whatever remedies they wish and I shall be obliged to obey such legal orders. I do agree that common sense should prevail and we need to find solutions to the underlying problems instead of looking for people to blame for the short comings of administration. Thank you Yours truly, Gurminder Singh Thind

The above letter has been sent to selected members of sangat by Solicitors hired by the committee of Sri Guru Singh Sabha Southall.

will there be transport from west london

The committee have a stranglehold on the gurdwara and every election is an unfair event. The introduction of byelaws is another attempt by this committee to gag and quieten the voice of the Sangat. Your attention is drawn to the bylaws that empower the committee members or their NOMINATED persons (yellow jacket hired thugs) to suspend anyone's membership and expel them from meetings, etc, on SUSPICION OF conduct that THEY DEEM unfit. This encroaches on the member's already weak rights as seen by the committee's oppressive tactics to expel people and refuse issues to be put to the general body. These moves are anti Sikh idealogy of the supremacy of the Sangat ( membership) which our Guru's bestowed on the Sikhs.

Jo Gajj Ke Jakara Gajavey Fateh Pavey Nihal Ho Javey Sat Sri Akal Gurbur Akal Hi Akal

Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara – Southall Wahe Guru Ji ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji ki Fateh Respected Sangat we want to inform you that our Gurdwara’s interests are being damaged by the continued conflict of past 4 years caused by: Committee’s UNFAIR and UNDEMOCRATIC control of membership recruitment and election processes such that it is virtually impossible to deliver fairness in elections in which its own vested interest of re-election is at stake. Data analysis company, Experian, scrutiny of the 2006 – 2008 membership lists, showed: An alarming 42% of the members could not be matched to any reliable public records used to establish authenticity of identity of a person. Several hundred names and addresses on the membership list matched known deceased persons on public record files. Relations of committee members known to live outside the Gurdwara catchment’s area are on the membership lists of past many years as well as large numbers of other bogus and unqualified members deliberately recruited every election time by the present committee. Some persons who serve on the current committee do not qualify under the rules in the constitution when examined under the restrictions imposed by the constitution regarding consumption of alcohol products. There are even examples of intoxicated persons being allowed to attend Gurdwara AGM to support committee’s agendas. Conflict also arises out of the committee’s abuse of power to expel members who question the management’s decisions on finances and other malpractices of misleading the membership. The committee’s motives were clearly political neutralisation of all opposition to the their arrogant style of management and as an act of intimidatory deterrent for other members from speaking out against the committee. The injustice is compounded by the committee’s refusal to allow expelled members their right to address the general body as allowed by Clause 11(5) of the Constitution. The committee acts in dictatorial style of ‘we know best’, threatening any member who dares to question their style with removal from meetings, intimidation and even violence. Conflict causing and hastily conceived Byelaws are implemented to intimidate the simple minded and passive membership to tow the line under fear and duress. Heavy-handed security measures at AGMs escalate the volatile situation to bring out the worst behaviour from angry members. This committee’s leadership has: 1. Distorted evidence relating to aggressive behaviour. 2. Resorted to unfounded allegations against members of the Lion group 3. Illegally amended the constitution to favour its dictatorial and aggressive style of management to Expel Gurdwara members for political gain using unjustified and irrelevant reasons 4. Made false pledges in Sri Guru Granth Sahib’s presence with no intention of honouring them 5. Obstructed every initiative to find reasonable and pragmatic solutions 6. Deliberately ratcheted tensions to video objectors and use the recordings to mislead authorities to justify its illegitimate control over the Gurdwara. 7. Abused Gurdwara resources for it’s own political survival 8. Wasted large amounts of Sangat’s money by incompetent decisions e.g. £4MILLION it paid for professional services in relation to Gurdwara costing £18 Million. That equates to 3 x normal RICS guidelines on such projects. 9. Practiced restrictive and dogmatic practices in Seva that undermine Gurdwara’s long-term interests by excluding those who seek to work to specified procedures and disciplined decision-making processes, which can be evaluated and measured for transparency and accountability when things go wrong. These allegations become even more plausible in view of the vehement resistance of the committee to introduce the changes to make the processes independent and free from its control AS RECOMMENDED BY THE working Group’s proposals despite Lion group’s total co-operation to comply with these proposals. The Lion group appeals to the Sangat to compel the committee to be reasonable and convert the forthcoming February 2008 AGM to an EGM where all the controversial issues can be addressed by the general body and let democratic consensus prevail. The Lion Group’s objective has always been and continues to be: To diligently work with honesty and commitment in line with our Sikh duty to introduce fair, democratic and transparent processes in the administration of the Gurdwara so that conflict, misunderstandings and abuse of authority are eliminated and replaced by a true spirit of Seva inline with the humility and truthfulness enshrined in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. We humbly seek Guru’s guidance and help from all our Sikh brothers to free this Gurdwara from misadministration of the past years under an unhealthy domination by few families.

WAHEGURU :WW: :WW:

Does anyone have a recordings for saturday