Khaalis

Vaheguru Ji, if your cousin is interested in working (paid) on a Khalsa project (we need artwork) kindly ask him to contact me on yudh@# Dhanvaad Jeeo.

It's not an art, but a collection of techniques, which varies between teacher to teacher. It's mostly taught to Police, who do not have time or money to invest in training their numbers in a curriculum based art to a high level. Police ae basically taught easy to remember, quite effective techniques. The ground/frontline army is also taught similar stuff. Special forces or higher level ops around the world learn more advanced 'princple' based arts i.e. to combat other high level fighters, rather than yobs on the street. If you just want a few simple techniques (which will only be useful if you practice them regularly, and are able to think through and apply them on attack variations), then its fine. But if you want a high level art, based on intelligent fighting principles i.e. no blocking, evasive body and foot movements, efficient strikes (not commited attack or using muscle power), joint/muscle/bone/tendon/nerve manipulation and destruction, realistic responses against weapons etc... I would do some more research.

Boxing and MMA are not Shastar Vidya, they are open handed rule bound sports (although they do require intense training and give great physical ability). Shastar Vidya (in it's broader meaning) is the knowledge of armed combat. As a Singh, one should never aim to fight empty handed, but should be able to make use of anything around him to give the advantage of a quick finish and reduce the opportunity to get into a grapple, thus not risking your dastaars beadbi. Should the dastaar be taken off, then that should too become a weapon and used for tying or strangling your attacker. Ultimatley, the blade is the ultimate weapon, and the training required to use and defend against the blade is totally different to what the sports martial arts teach. Bullets can run out, a gun can lock or it can take time to pull, take safety off, aim and fire a gun. Whilst a blade can be drawn and do its damage in the blink of eye. Here is a rather old, but eye opening video of Dan Inosanto (Bruce Lee's JKD student and Bruce Lee's weapons teacher): I humbly request that all Singhs should whole heartedly learn the art of the blade (sword, dagger and even stick) so that you can at least have a good chance of realistically defending yourself at close range. Alongside, a true 'combat' i.e. quick finish (not fight engaging/promoting) open hand system should be learnt, although if you can find a good teacher, they should be able to teach you the whole perspective. Upon taking amrit, once should become a warrior - in every sense. Every day should be a battle against ignorance, injustice, greed, cruelty. This battle can take many forms i.e. media, journalism, human rights, politics, education etc as well as physical. The discipline of simran and shastar vidya prepares a Singh mentally and physically, builds confidence, wisdom, patience and courage, to fight the battle in every possible field. It also maintains the all important boundary between being a courageous Singh of the Guru who upholds dharma and becoming a hankaari raakash (shakti without bhagti). Without gurbani gyaan in our essence, shakti may make us powerful, but it will be all in vain (even in Khalsa saroop). Attaining the name Singh, bhagti is not enough, one must also daily meditate on the art and concept of death. This is how the puratan laadli fauj got the name Akalis - by conquering death (mentally, spiritually and physically i.e. no more fear of bodily pain). Guru has gifted us shastardhari roop - we can treat this as a rvaaj or empty ritual i.e. mathha tek at Gurdwara without ever reading Gurbani or listening to it.. or we can have satkaar for Guru de bakshe kakaar and learn and meditate on their usage, nit (every day). It is only then that Dasmesh Pitas pavitar baani will become clear and come alive for us. The same way some Sikhs 'rightly' pay much focus on ithihaas, kathhaa, gurbani paath, santhiya, kirtan, seva, simran.... one should also understand that shastar vidya is also an intricate part of a rehitvaan Singhs life. Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fat-heh

Vaheguru Ji, Bhai Sahib, do you have contact details for the the people sponsoring Sant Jis visit? If so, would you be so kind so as to e-mail yudh@# Dhanvaa Ji.

Sant Ji is an absolute rare gem in this world of religious tribalism. Their parchaar is much needed in the Sikh Panth and would also beneift all other Margs. I pray Sat-Guru gives Sant Ji a long life so they are able to continue spreading their high and correct understanding of Gurmat and are able to educate many others to conintue to do so.

Excellent initiative. A much needed and great seva! I would advise placing adverts in all the Gurdwara in the UK, as well as UK Punjabi newspapers/publications in order to reach the Punjabi speaking diaspora. Good work.

Achha Bhai Sahib, you are intent on repeating yourself without even bothering to read the detailed posts I have written for you. Lol, London is hardly safe, it probably has one of the largest concentrations of organised gangs in Europe, not to mention one of Europes worst knife crime statistics. In case you blinked, you may have also missed the Riots last month. That aside, I doubt your side of town sees anywhere near as much violence as the Philippines does - where the experienced/relevant teachers are based. The difference over there is, people don't learn to just enter refereed competitions, they learn for daily survival on the streets - where knives are common as muck. All being said, you keep talking about street fighting and what works, without giving any thought to knives, weapons, multiples. Your side of town must have extremely chivalrous/socially responsible gangsters :-). I know of western boxing styles which are made for the street, they are very different from ring boxing, they target soft areas on the body and use locks. Anyway, good luck to you and your training. I hope you will one day actually do some some research on traditional martial arts and see who the Masters actually are. Your single comment about early UFC etc being entered by the best of Kung Fu, is the single most ignorant and ridiculous comment I have ever heard in the traditional 'martial' arts field! How can someone who trains to kill use those skills honestly in a competition! There is such a thing as muscle memory, whatever you drill into your training (intentions) is the way your body reacts in the said situations. I shouldn't really bother, but I will give you another rope to grasp (I've aleady provided you a link to a world renowned martial artist who has judged World Muay Thai competitions and competed in a number of sports martial arts fields - who now only teaches Bak Mei) - if you really want to see what traditional martial arts have to offer, visit Zhong Luo's Dragon House in San Francisco (your side of the world, the few hundred mile car ride will be well worth it). Zhong Luo is a Bak Mei Master, and has done San Shou (Chinese Kickboxing), Mongolian Wrestling, to name a few. He is no stranger cage fighting world, and also trains pro MMA fighters and organises his own cage fighting competitions. Feel free to have this conversation and touch hands with him, and ask him the relevance of Bak Mei to the street and in comparison other martial arts (i.e. the mainstream ones that you are promoting). http://dragonhousemma.com/sifo-luo/ http://www.kungfumag...php?article=131 Here is his e-mail address: whitedragonfightingmaster@gmail.com My leaving comment to you is stop confusing sport and combat. Mainstream Muay Thai and Boxers wear protection on their hands - their art is trained for the ring (although yes, it can prove highly effective on the street if weapons are not involved), and don't get in to fights outside of the ring for a very good reason. If, like you say you had seen experience on the street, you would know that punching someone in the head in same style you do in the ring, gets your fingers broken. This is where the underground Chinese boxing styles differ massively. They teach to use a variety of fists (for different applications) - in the correct way (requires much conditioning), teaching how to generate massive energy with little effort (body mechanics), and to destroy (not stop) your opponent. So that you can instantly move on to his friends. Thanks for the conversation though, you have unwittingly got a few Singhs seriously interested in learning about blade based and traditional martial arts who have decided to contact me. :-) Dhanvaad Jeeo - Akaal Purkh tu-haanu bibek budhi bakshe.

The Karai on SK are not the same as the cheaper mass maufactured ones Shastar man used to sell. These karai are professionally hand made using the highest quality steel and the finished to perfection. They are made to measure, not whatever fits you best. Its these exact kinds of budget Punjabi attitutes, that has caused a decline in our Gyaan, Kirtan, Architecture, Literature to name just a few areas. Weapons produced by the Sikh mainstream are laughable in quality and practicality. In the old days, a Singhs most expensive possessions were his shastar. He would get them hand made, to measure, in the highest quality and craftsmanship he could afford. The tears of the singhs who had to give up their prized possessions after teh 2nd Anglo sikh war are commemorated by the Biritsh eye witnesses who saw this sad day . Since then, Sikhs have never been able to claim back that great tradition of producnig the highest quality shastar. It seems that when ever apne make an earnest effort to bring quality to the Panth, all hell is raised. People have made Sikhi in many aspects... cheap. Every Singh who truly honours shatar should happily invest in and support those that procude quality shastar. And then they should do satkaar of those shastar and learn how to use them 'realistically' to a high level.

Bhai Sahib, you are still not able to seperate between sport and combat. Vale Tudo and Pride etc were sports events with the incentive of fame and money. What business would someone who has learnt the art of death have there? The so called 'Kung Fu' practitioners who participated in these events were nothing of the sort, there were no reknowned or recognised traditional Masters at these events, just sports martial artists. It seems pretty clear that you have little to no experience on the street i.e. multiples and knives. Getting someone in an armbar or going to the ground (committing to one person) is going to get you killed, as is trying to fight a weapon from a distance using strikes only (Muay Thai). These are not improved versions of the Father arts, they are diluted versions, the Father arts cannot be used in the ring. You cannot kill someone or break their spine, or burst their eyes, or attack nerves, maim, break bones, tear muscle, permanently disable people in the ring. If you actually bother to study MMA/UFC you will see that all the combat elements have been removed i.e. Gracies originally used to manipulate finger to snapping point when being overpowered or lifted by bigger opponents. None of the arts you mention are weapons arts, kindly stop deluding yourself and others. I am going to throw you one tiny bit of 'light' on the McDojo and Media world of MA that you are living in. http://www.mafangfa.org.uk/ Bak Mei is little known and devastating closed door Southern Chinese external boxing system. There is only one high level practitioner that I know of in the UK, but he teaches out of choice and only one to one. There are 2-3 very quiet and selective schools 'commercial' in the UK, I have provided a link to one. Both this chap, and there a few others I know of, have been there and done that in MMA, Thai Boxing, Boxing, Wresling. They devote their life to practicing and teaching (selectively) the art of death. Bak Mei is hated amongst most Chinese Martial arts schools, because it has an infamous history, it was known as the Shaolin Killer (read up on the history). In fact I should be able to put you in touch with a 'real' Bak Mei teacher near Yuba City (who has competed successfully in all you mention and even teaches people who enter MMA compeitions - that side of his life is however only a business). Feel free to PM me, I will provide details. Better to get 1st hand experience than learn from biased MMA blogs/forums. This is only one amongst a plethora of little known 'martial' arts in the real combat world. Again I have no problem with Krav, I have a Krav student, it is a good basic set of effective principles (its not an art), good for quick learning environments like the Police. The other arts you mention also have their place - they provide many great (but selective) fighting skills, but they are sport orientated and taught. If you want to know about combat arts, reasearch Bokator, it's a whole different world. These are the arts which were used in the battlefield. God bless.

Just a quick correction, Bhai Balbir Singh Ji does not play tanti saaj. His more recent recordings certainly incorporate tanti saaj (blessing), but he has been brought up in the early vaaja generation -and the vaaja is generally what has accompanied all his live performances in his main career, although he has always tried to utilise a Sarangi player at big events (kudos). On the more important note, he is the number one exponent in my opinion of Gurbani raag vidya and kirtan traditions in the world. Being from a Nihang/kirtan family, his knowledge on Dasam bani kirtan is second to none. He is one of only a handful of people alive today who can traditionally sing and give the arthh of Dasmesh Pitas taranai based shabds. He also has an amazing knowledge of traditional taals. Other phenomenal Raagis (please note their is a difference between raagi and kirtani, many of the previoulsy listed are kirtani, they are not complete Masters in raag, many have only learnt a handful) who are experts in Gurbani raag and Dasam Bani are: Bhai Nirmal Singh Khalsa (who taught at Bhai Sukha/Mehtab Singhs kirtan taksaal in Rajastan - Budda Jor) - also an expert on Dasam Bani. Bhai Gurmeet Singh Shaant - very knowledgable in Taranai also. Bhai Baljeet Singh and Gurmeet Singh Namdhari - Kirtan, Dasam Bani and Bhai Nanad Lal Goya renditions and Tanti Saaj exponents par excellence. Regarding Bibiyan - Bibi Ashupreet Kaur Jalandhar Valai are on an absolutely different level. I have respect for all Raagis who learn the art of kirtan as per the maryada of Gurbani and who devote a lifetime to worshipping Akaal in the most highest quality effort possible. Gurus darbaar used to be beacon of excellence in all areas - poetry, singing, instruments, seva, atmik gyaan, raj niti, sansaari mai, shastar vidya to name just a few areas. Today we seem to be happy to learn, practice and present a level of kalaa (in all areas) which is not befitting the royal status of the Jagat Guru.

"i say if your going to train in martial arts then train in the best and train hard muay thai for standup boxing for fist fighting ji jitsu and wrestling for ground and for weapons krav mega". Just passing by. And will make a few points Singh Sahib, out of genuine concern (I don't have a habit of banging my head against brick walls). Muay Thai is a sport - albeit traditional Thai one. Kickboxing is its western propogated diluted child. The father and grandfather of Muay Thai is Muay Chaya and Muay Boran (Combat Arts). The Par-dada of Muay Thai is Bokator - probably one of the most ancient and lethal hand to hand arts in all Asia. To find genuine teachers and practitioners in the arts of death (rather than sport) is not easy. Ju Jitsu is not made for the street. The street reality is multiples and weapons, Ju Jitsu does not train for these. Ju Jitsu is comparable to Pehlevani - a royal sport, it (or that from which it and Judo are derived, yes the Gracies have much Judo in their art) would have had the same status in Japan during the Shogunate rule as Pehlvaani (Persian inspired) or its pure Indian predecessor, Malla Yudha, had in royal ancient India. Krav is very modern, and can be very energy intensive, this is not a rule for true weapons based arts (which Krav is certainly not). Krav is an ideal example of an art taught to the army and/or police. Simple, quick to learn, effective. It cannot be compared against arts which have been continuosly developed over centuries and take many years to learn. Systema is more effective against weapons because it has taken the princples of many traditional arts including weapons based arts. I know Masters that teach regular armies and special forces from wealthy kingdoms, the ability of the average soldier (who is generally drawn from a poor uneducated background) and the amount of resource (time and money) the army is prepared to put into open hand combat trainining for its soldiers, is minimal. Weapons based arts rely on intelligent footwork, postitioning, excellent body mechanics, depeption, baiting, silent control, softness, use of total body energy rather than strength (efficiency). As of late even Israel is finding greener grass, and have been sending their elite to learn the Asian arts in replacement of Krav. Lesser known styles of Ninjitsu (non Dr Hatsumi) are one of the favourites at the moment. The world of martial arts is massive. The more you delve the bigger it gets. it all starts off with the McDojos and the greatly advertise/well known/popular arts, ones that have been made famous by certain movies or movie starts etc and most of all, the world of sport. It eventually ends in a plethora of systems which the owners feel no need to propogate, because the reason they were so dangerous and successfull, was because the owners kept them gupt. If asked a question, one can find the answer. If one never hears the question, there will never be a need for an answer. The reason the ancients kept their art gupt, was so the enemy would never have an answer for it in battle. That which is 'seen' and 'learnt' can be responded to. This is why nearly all traditional warrior orders across Asia, including Nihangs, have historically kept their vidya gupt.

Sanshou is a sport, same as Yaw Yan in the Phillipines and Kick Boxing/Muay Thai in Thailand. These arts can still be effective on the street, but are not practiced to main or kill. Only to score points. The mother arts from which these are derived are the 'combat' arts. Chinese Boxing is a generic term which relates to the plethora of Southern Chinese 'fist' based arts, of which Wing Chun (Ip-Man, Shaolin), Various styles of Praying Mantis i.e. 7 star, Bamboo Forest, Chow Gar etc are just a few of the popular known ones. There others which are less known and in my opinion far more dangerous. Where the aforementioned systems are now taught openly by thousands around the world (meaning a top teacher with complete knowledge is hard to find), the closed door system are still secretive and not taught to the west (with a few exceptions). They still practice underground bare knuckle no holds bar fights to test their skills against different systems.

If you have time, research into what Chinese fighting arts influenced Nigel Bens and Chris Eubanks boxing (both were boxing legends). The arts they used, which you will never have heard of, were killing arts using the fist, and only very watered version were used by these 2 boxers. Also look up what happened to their opponents (hospitalisation). You obviously do not about southern Chinese martial arts (Chinese Boxing). There are many closed door chinese systems that the mainstream have never heard of - which some top ex-European Muay Thai/Kickboxing champs have discovered and devoted their life to learning (due to the want of inheriting the art of death, rather than sport). You are talking about sports again, Muay Thai. If you want to learn about deadly arts - look up its evolving battlefield predecessors - Muay Boran, Muay Chaya and Bokator (also closed door systems to the west). I am lucky enough to have made friends with and learnt some tips from the few rare practitioners outside of the Goldern Triangle. I've already spoken about Krav. Empty opinions mean nothing - you obvioulsy have little to no experience regarding the fighting arts, otherwise you wouldn't make such big rash statements/generalisations. If you ever actually feel the urge to learn something about 'real' fighting arts, contact me - you are more than welcome to come to my home and discuss over a cup of tea, as well as see some evidence if you felt inclined. God Bless.

"waste ur money and Time on these . MMA is best for street fight . And i will advice u to first learn Boxing and wrestling then MMA all these chao mao looks good but are not effective" Bhai Sahib Ji. How many martial arts have you actually learnt or fought against? How many street fights have you had, what qualifies you to make such an irresponsible and ignorant statement? It's exacly this sort of irrational teenage mentality that spoils Sikh forums and pushes away any intellgient people who actually may have something worth sharing. If you want to see the effectieness of any of these martial arts and many many more, I would be more than happy to help you make acquaitance with practitioners. Boxing is very good, and extremely effective on the street if one has maastered it, but how many people actually become good boxers. Look at the professional arena and your question is answered, There are actually street styles of boxing taught in the Phillipines (where modern boxing movements originate from- via the Navy that was located there during USAs short bid for dominance). The twisting ducking, uppercutting and downward attacking motions are all derived from blade fighting techniques. Prior to the Filipino US innovation in boxing, boxing was a very linear, direct fighting art (see pics of the early Jewish and Irish communities in London fighitng for respect on the streets in gentlemanly bare knuckle boutsat the turn of the last century). Boxing sadly fails against Blades for obvious reasons - but is great as an open hand style (if mastered). MMA is a sport. Yes it can be used in the street to good effective - against one unarmed person, but the training is tuned towards one to one and rules i.e. you can't rip someone throat out, you can't burst their eyeballs, you can't snap their joints, you can't apply nerve attacks etc etc etc. What you practice is what you do. It is also not designed for multiples - largley because it encourages grappling (commitment to one person) so do the maths, what would the 2nd, 3rd person be doing whilst you are gettign the 1st in an arm bar...? Lastly, it is not designed for weapon attacks. This takes nothing away from MMA or Boxing, both teach excellent skills like judging distance, closing the gap, speed, strength, striking/controlling methods etc etc, but the objective is rule bound. If you want to compete, then excellent, if you want to learn how to defend yourself against extreme violence, which more than likely will include smashed bottles, knives even swrods/basebal bats, then you are more likely to have more success in a combat art. Eagle claw, Wing chun etc are battlefield skill, designed to make a quick kill or permanent disability, if learnt fully/coorectly, these arts still provide the same abilities. Eskrima in its many forms is unique in the martial arts of the world, because it is the only one which is still applied daily on the street. Visit Phillipines and you will understand what I mean. Until very recently, death matches or live challenegs with sticks or bladeswere common place, they still happen to much lesser extent today. These arts are live/real, proven on the street (even now). This isn't an attack on any art or any practitioner, but when talking on public forums, esp Sikh ones, people should learn to be responsible as youngters get influenced. Kindly don't compare apples with pears. There are no rule or referees on the street. Whatever you practice is what manifests (intentions).

If you can find a good Silat teacher, then that can be a great skill to learn as it is complete. Again Silat is a generic term, in Indonesia you have a plethora of different Silat systems. Maul Mornie and Steve Benitez are the main teachers in the UK, but they are not based in the Midlands. Maul is extremely busy and Steve follows a very traditional curriculum to include learning Jurus in depth (forms). Holland has more options for high level Silat - I have seen seriously dangerous people there. Generally Silat has some of the best take downs and ground fighting (without commitment like BJJ) I have seen, its designed for multiples. It also has decent weapons skills. Krav I personally don't rate compared to other systems, but it can be good on the street against yobs, again, no real weapons counters. Thats not to say that there are no good krav practitioners. These kind of systems are direct and basic, so good for army/police. The forces do not have the time, money or inclination to learn high level fighting arts because they don't rely on them. There is no best martial art, only teachers and practitioners with a higher level of understanding. You need to find a teacher who ticks all the boxes. Martial arts is a journey, you don't know whats good until you have experienced whats bad. So go explore :-) Re Eskrima, my only advice look for a style that does not do stick on stick, that can be your test when speaking to potential teachers. I teach and continue to study martial arts. I'm based in South London, drop me a mail on yudh@khalsa# .com if you are ever passing by.

Vaheguru Ji. Yes, if you are patient (which is a high level quality in the true art of fighting), then Hari Singh is a good option for open hand combat (and his system is great for general fitness/flexibility/discipline etc without the mad modern combat exercise regimes). The exercises/drills/conditioning are all totally directed towards the fighting muscles/tendons etc. Re it's effective against knife attacks, any martial art can be effective against knives, but the practitioner would need to be well advanced and have a deep understanding of underlying fighitng principles i.e. baiting, intelligent footwork, body motion and mechanics, use of soft and hard, distancing, closing the gap, range, leaving vacuums etc etc etc. At a common level, I don't think Eagle Claw is designed for taking on knife attacks - it is hands on system, same as Wing Chun and JKD, so the hands would present themselves to the blade. "Good" styles of Eskrima however (which are very rare, most mainstream ones are competition orientated), are designed around the blade. They specialise in its use and therefore response to the same. To say "What I am looking for was something that taught open hand combat with also the ability to defend from knife attacks. However, I dont want to train in weaponry." is a misnomer. To defend against a knife, one has to first master the knife. Knife is weaponry. Gatka is great, is is good for fitness, getting kids interested in Sikhi, developing confidence, flowing movements etc, but it is not really a 'martial' art. Is more akin to a sport, the same as mainstrea eskrima. Although both have elements of combat in them. Eskrima is totally applicable to the street. I'm not sure if you watch films, but if not, watch some youtube clips of fight scenes from the Jason Bourne films, "Book Of Eli", the new film "Hannah" and there are many more. Although this is only hollywood and the fight scenes are jazzed up a bit, they are all Eskrima open hand, just do a quick research on the fight choreohraphers. Most action films who want to depict realistic fight scenes today use Eskrima. Here is an example of a jazzed up Eskrima knife fight (with the last fight fight actually being against a Silat blade - -Kerambit and style): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipi4-pgiiP4 Good Eskrima open hand is very close quarter - using elbows to full effect, joint manipulation locks and breaks, targeting cavities and nerves, stand up grappling, great body mechanics movements and excellent footwork, as well as highly painful and powerful hand strikes. At the same time, unlike most other martial arts, it teaches you to be soft, quick and sensitive at the same time - this is the blade influence (you can't go hard against a blade unless you are suicidal). You also learn 'very real' sword, knife and stick fighting skills/principles - in fact you usually learn these first. All 'real' weapons/blade based martial arts have a huge amount of similarity, as do most 'high level' open hand martial arts. All kalaa comes from one source :-). Here is Sardara's link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUE7FDeczM8 I think he may have a website also. he certainly has learnt from many teachers and has many cerificates, I am sure he is must be quite good for someone who has been doing this passionately for so long. But you must gel with your teacher and respect/like what he teaches, so as Kalyug said, best thing is try them out. I would give whoever is on your short list at least 3-5 lessons each before you decide to be fair. As I said, it depends on who your teacher is. Eskrima, Kali or Arnis is not a martial art, these are just the generic terms for martial arts in the Phillipines. The different systems in the Phillipines vary greatly from each other. If you are ever passing by in London, give me a shout, I'll be happy to advise/explain/show you in person.

Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fat-heh Brother/sister, the most important element of learning a martial art is finding a good teacher. A good teacher should be open minded, always continuing to learning, be totally open with their knowledge (no hold back like in most McDojos and keep students coming back for 20 years under th pretense of a belting/grading system). a good teacher should answer all your questions and hold monitor your progress as if you were his/her own child. Most martial arts classes are so big you end up getting taught by so called senior students, and get the occassional glance from the teacher. Traditionally in most martial cultures - very few people were taught the 'arts of combat'. Most soldiers and police (as is teh case today) are taught basic martial arts, as they don't have the resources and time to invest in a complete training programme, alongside the important matter of they don't actually fight open handed or with blades (although the skills is still deemed necesary as a last resort). For civiilians like you and me, open hand and blade training is very valuable - as this is the most common scenario on the street. Back to your question - Hari Singh teaches Eagle Claw and Sardaara Singh teaches WC adn JKD, so I expect it is from these 2 teachers you are choosing to learn, correct? They are 3 different styles. Eagle Claw is the most traditional system, which I expect is taught in an old fashioned, patient and disciplined manner. It is a very powerful system, and having the ablity to have the grasp which arises from the training is invaluable. Eagle Claws strength lies in Chin-Na the art of mucsle seperation. it's very hard work (the conditioning etc) but well worth it. I am not sure how long Hari Singh takes to start teaching this, as I assume you will first of all learn a number of body correction, balance, footwork etc exercises via forms. EC also makes good use of neck manipulation, a great skill for Singhs in terms of response to Dara/Dastar attacks. At a high level its a devestating killing art... but how long it will take to get to that level via this school, I don't know. Wing Chun is a great short range fighting system, promoting the centre line and direct attack principle. It has (in my opinion) very basic but strong footwork, soley because it's emphasis is close range. It is taught via forms too, and it's strength lies in very innovative speed, strength, sensitivity and postural drills - which create fighting habits. I'm not convinced against its ability verses western boxing (hooks etc) but if the teacher is good, he/she will have a solution for this. There are different types of Wing Chun, Ip Man, the more popular style (due to Bruce Lee being a student) is more a hard/direct system - largely based on the highly dangerous Snake and white Crane systems (which I love in their original form). Personally I prefer Shaolin Wing chun - which is also incorporates Tiger - and therefor uses grasps somewhat similar to Eagle claw (Northern EC uses thumb and index/iddle finger and Southern EC uses all fingers, like Tiger, from what I remember). also Shaolin WC is much softer and sneakier, less obvious. This is an invaluable skill in real life fighting. Ip Man WC can be learnt fairly quickly, in a matter of a few years if the teacher is good. Thereafter you keep practicing and improving. JKD is more modern, and is a Bruce Lee's mix of Ip Man Wing Chun, Western boxing and Kali open hand (Eskrima). It's the easiet and quickest to learn and is more akin to a modern street figh situation. It relies on speed and strength (Western boxing influence), but uses WC drills to create timing/sensitivity/anticipation etc. It also uses more kicks than the others due to Chuck Norris's Japanese influence on Bruce I think . Interestingly WC does not really use kicks, just a few up to the knee (which is an excellent tactic on the street). So, a lot to consider. If you can stick with it and have time, my recommendation would be Eagle Claw - as over time, I feel it will build you up with the most amount of skill i.e. grip, strength, speed, great kowldge of anatomy i.e. muscle seperation, pressure points (Marmas) etc - which in my opinion, also makes it the most lethal. If the other 2, I would learn Wing Chun 1st, as it takes longer and again has many more tools in the box (over time). If you want quick fix which is fairly efective, then JKD. Most people who learn JKD, end up learnign WC in any case, there is a massive cross over. But less who learn WC learn JKD (although a few do). Basic reason being, Bruce Lee is said (by Hong Kong WC groups) not to have completed his WC training under Ip Mans school - and that WC learnt and practiced fully is a destructive and effective art with no weakness. I personally know a few WC teachers, and they are very dangerous - there seems to be culture of testing your skills in the street for some groups within the WC arena :-). Now for the real question. Why do you want to learn? If for self defence, then you need to consider that today, on the street, people do not fight open handed (which these systems are designed for). You would be better offer learning a system which teaches weapons from day one and incorporates effective open hand fighting along the same principles. In which case I would suggest finding a good Eskrima teacher. Eagle claw and wing Chun do some weapons work, but this is now largely more form based and artistic in nature, which is why you se many people from chinese (and japanese) martial arts backgrounds learning from the Filipinos - Sword and Knife work. JKD which is mainly headed by Dan Inosanto (Bruce Less senior student) usually combines with Dans version of Kali (Eskrima), so JKD students get their weapons fix this way. If you would like any further advice, feel free to PM me.

Before the onset of the modern world i.e. post WW2 - it was common for people of all cultures to be armed to one extent or another. In many cultures this is still the case - but mostly in old world cultures or rural areas - be it Europe, Middle East, Nepal, Indonesia etc etc. Even in the US one has a right to carry arms dependant on the state laws etc. In the UK however, only 'amritdhari' Sikhs have the right to carry 'blades' in the form of the kirpan etc. If you want to be armed - there are many legal ways of doing that. If you want to be armed with kakaar i.e. kara/kirpan - then it is a matter of your consiousness - as these are gifts from Dasam Patshah to his Singh Khalsa. If you are worried about being attacked etc, then in all honesty - kakaars are not your saviour (although nothing would make me happier to see another Singh take Khande de Pahul). Real defence comes from knowledge - vidya - of fighting. The real weapon is therefore you. Shastar are just an extension of our limbs. For a Singh - the association with Shastar is more complex and deep - as all Singhs are "supposed" to have vidya of yudh. Sadly today we have a whole generation of youths who have no idea about Khalsa Dharma - and those that look the part, seldom have any realistic/usable knowledge of being able to use their kara or kirpan (or themselves for that matter) in a fight/weapons/multiple situation. Sadly, in most cases - their kara and kirpan are simply cheaply bought, low quality symbols rather than expensive/quality/usable shastar. Then we have a new growing generation of antique collectors - who likewise a simply creating mini museums - but do not invest time, money or dedication in learning real combat and therefore being able to use their collectables. If you want to defend yourself - learn a real combat art which uses simple, efficient, devastating movements - which can be transposed from any inanimate object to open hands. That way you will be a formidable/deadly opponent for anyone - even armed with a ball point pen or credit card.

Could I do a benti to all UK sangat reading this post, please, take 10 minutes out of your holiday time in the next week or so to complete this very importnt survey - the minimum sample % needed to reflect the mindset of the UK Sikh population has still not been reached. We all seem to be have plenty of time to share our opinions on all matter of subjects - but as a Kaum - when it comes to progressing communal help/success for our community in real ways - we never reach the mark. If you could also please send the English and Punjabi links to family members, maybe even sit down with your elders on a PC/Laptop and help them complete it, it would be highly appreciated. Thank you. Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fat-heh I am a Trainee Clinical Psychologist completing the final year of my Doctorate at University College London. As a part of my studies, I am undertaking a thesis which will examine the attitudes of adult Sikhs residing in the UK and really require the support/co-operation of the Sikh community. The thesis will explore knowledge, attitudes and perceptions of the Sikh community, with regards to difficulties experienced by other people. Research to date on this population is limited. The needs of the Sikh population within the NHS are unknown as a result, and policies and procedures are not tailored to incorporate the requirements of this group in relation to mental health. In order to help make an impact at policy and procedure level within the NHS, a large response rate will be required for this survey. I make a humble request, that you take 10-15 minutes out of your day in order to complete an online questionnaire. Your participation can most definitely pave the way for a greater understanding of Sikh specific needs in the health service. Please ask your fellow Punjabi speakers (non-english speakers), parents, grandparents to complete this. English version: - https://opinio.ucl.ac.uk/s?s=11049 Punjabi version: - https://opinio.ucl.ac.uk/s?s=11034 We are only interested in real and honest views, not right or wrong answers. It is the understanding of real Sikh attitudes that will enable instrumental steps to be made towards tailoring important public services towards the community. Your responses will remain completely anonymous and in order to show my appreciation for your time, you will have a chance of winning either £50 or £25 in vouchers of your choice. If you could treat this study as a community project and promote/advertise it within Sikh circles/groups/Gurdwarai in your local area, you will be doing a great service to the Sikh community. Also, kindly forward this e-mail to all the Sikhs (friends/family etc) you know and put the details of this message on any internet Sikh forums you participate in etc. Many thanks for your help. Gurpreet Kaur Trainee Clinical Psychologist

They are hardly pensioners, why is it going to be their 'very last time'?

Make sure you book slots for Babaji on teh Sikh Channel.

an open invitation to a Gurmat Sangeet workshop on 17th Jan, 2pm Gurdwara Amrit Parchar Dharmik Diwan, Peckover Street (off Leeds RD), Bradford, BD1 5BD 01274 668627 Map for directions: http://www.multimap.com/maps/?zoom=16&countryCode=GB&lat=53.7943&lon=-1.7447

I thought only Akalis wore kacherai past their knees, could anyone enlighten regarding this maryada for Akali Singhs. Thanks.

Are you sure it will be according to Gurbani Sirlek? Apart from H S Lallie, none of the other Kirtani really follow the Gurbani raag hukum... Could you kindly confirm with the Raagi jathaas. Cheers.

Learning the true value of shastar and yudh - and learning to see and do pooja of of Guru Gobind Singhs Mahabali roop can make one more spiritual and increase your wonder and attachment of/to Guru Sahiban. The Namaskar process is also a form of Pooja, esp if done correctly whilst reciting Jaap Sahib. As for the rest of Gatka, sadly, it bears little relation to Asli Yudh and won't help yo on the street or battlefield against anyone who knows what they are doing.