Jangal Da

Here's a few thoughts (limited it to 10): 1. Indoor and outdoor akharas - employ some top pehlwan & gatka instructors. Get latest gym equipment. 2. Pay decent wages for santhiya teachers - ideally ones born and brought up in the same country. 3. Ferrari car to carry GGS Maharaj in when neccessaarry. 4. 5 Hummer jeeps to flank the above Ferrari when out and about - filled with Nihang khasadars. 5. State of the art (steel benches, decent ventillation...) kitchens. 6. Farmland attached to the gurudwara to grow food on, teach the youth farming methods and for cross-country practice. Oh yes, and stables for the horses. 7. GP led health centre with physiotherapists. 8. Ban speakers. 9. Gardens with beehives and fountains. 10. Foundry for making high quality shastars.

Please try and post the sentance containing those words in Gurmukhi font (don't know myself how to do this!).

Sikhiroots - Don't live in the region any longer, but 99% certain the shop is still there. High Street in Smethwick - just up from the Gurudwara. Not visible from the road because its tucked away in a small shopping square - if walking along Smethwick High St, simply stop a local Sikh and ask them directions. If anyone here has their number please post - they used to do internet orders, but due to lack of interest closed the website. But I'm certain they would probably arrange order and delivery over the phone. Miyan - Punjabi for 'sheath' that you keep a kirpan/ sword in. Ratnovaal - Village where traditional blacksmiths from a Gursikh family near Ludhiana make good quality kirpans for decent prices and do a lot of private commission at fair prices.

Victorinox kirpans are very decent - strong and durable blades - not razor sharp, but can be sharpeneded without cracking the blade and maintaining a good lasting edge. Got mine from Amritsar, but Sikhiroots in Smethwick were selling them for about £90 for the larger one (shorter one available - no point in that - get the larger one). Miyan lets it down though (slightly better than a Blue Peter job) - when I have time I'm going to ask the Ratnovaal boys to make one for the kirpan - a snug fitting wooden miyan with steel kadai.

Funny video!!! Call centre worker - hillarious!!! But what is the fuss about - Muslim terrorists are a major threat around the world due to their twisted inbred mentality. I have a lot of admiration for the patient game that the Indian Govt are playing at - If I was India's PM, I would have done what the Israelis are doing in Gaza. Punjabis are worried about being in the middle of a war, being a border state - asking for diplomacy and peace. Has the Punjab not always faced the invaders since the times of Alexander? Can you imagine Shaheed Baba Deep Singh saying - 'O let the Afghans do what they want - we would not want to risk them smashing up our Harimandir Sahib - protect the bricks and mortar and let them forcibly convert, kill, loot and rape all they like...'

So you qualify monae with "oppressors of the Panth?" Obviously you fail to grasp the points about monae Sikhs presented above - even when Guru Gobind Singh ji addressed them as his Khalsa. I know many an unshorn sheep with beard and turban - surely you do too, the ones who cannot even name the Panj Piyare, who cannot utter any bani past the Mool Mantar, who do not even know the names of the Ten Gurus in order! The aim of everyone who calls themselves a Sikh should be to firmly committ to taking Amrit and joining the Sadh Sangat Saroop Gur Khalsa. Those who have taken Amrit must firmly lead by example and committ to Seva for the sake of the entire Panth. For the definition of a Sikh - simply attend your local Gurudwara and watch whosoever bows before the Guru Granth Sahib - Waheguru knows all thoughts and sincerities. Never make the mistake of taking that judgement into your own hands and recognise with love that those who have come before their Guru is a Sikh.

If it is any consolation, the Biharis were not stopped by the police at the station, but made a run for it when one Singh finally took out his sword and made the mob scatter. At least in India you can be shastar-bar-tayaar, unlike in some Western countries. But a Sikh should never proclaim it was due to a lack of shastars that he was beaten - use the strength in your limbs - even a baby struggles and fights for its first breath, use the community - Gurudwaras should be focal points for collecting jathas of young men like the olden times when troubles kicked off and a point had to be made. Like my grandfather used to say about the partition in 1947 - "they kill one of yours, you kill 2 of them...." ...That is how the quom will preserve its ank.

When you are recognised by others as having achieved arduously and acknowledged that through your humbleness of the glory that it brings, then you have probably used the essence of warriorhood, gifted as your birthright from Dasmesh Pita. I doubt that many people who have personal experiences that justify the answer to the question of their warriorhood, will not readily divulge a black and white answer. Such self proclaimant fools the ego if accepted and hurts the spirit if doubted by others.

What's the bother over whey? Is it not just the by-product after producing makkan from milk and then used to make lassi? Chocolate - personally think its a very yummy bit of food - just never over-indulge. I think for every 200g bar you should ensure that you do a 5km run straight away afterwards - just be careful not to tread on or breathe in any insects - if you wish to, ask a local Jain for their brush and a local Musalmani for her burqa and you should be content in your heart (and look like a plonka). What a load of fuss and nonsence this thread is!

The dal is Bidhi Chand dal. Apart from that, I know very little else about this dal. Regarding falconry, To start with falconry, I suppose it depends upon which country you're in, but in the UK the lanner bird, buzzard and Harris hawk are typically beginners birds - easily obtainable and trainable - unlike many others, they are less likely to fly off and away forever when first training them. A local falconry sanctuary is a good place to get lessons on looking after, keeping and training the birds. However be well prepared - if keeping one, it requires daily care including weighing and regular exercise - you need access (with permission from the landowner) to a large open space appropriate to the bird that you are flying - ideally isolated, as these birds will not easily take to flying with other people about. A local falconry sanctuary will offer you lessons (typically a few hundred pounds for a decent 5d course) and then if you are interested in keeping a bird, they will help you identify one and put you in touch with a falconer who will teach you further. This stage allows you the chance to see what the upkeep and pitfalls are like as well as learning important stuff, like recognising a sick bird. It is a demanding hobby and currently I do not have all the time/ means to keep a bird myself. Keeping the bird - that's the other thing....You need a large shed like unit - the sanctuary can give more details, but again, without a decent sized garden or land, this will be a problem. Also when you get a bird, it will be scared of you and there will need to a least a week's period of manning (training it to tolerate you handling it). Oh... and you'll need a freezer to keep food (frozen chicks and mice). Best thing to do is to take some lessons, and then learn to fly them to your spinning a lure (another skill that takes practice). See http://www.nbpc.co.uk for courses - they are the most reliable people for a beginner to get started with and if you mean to keep a bird, they will put you in touch with a mentor. ps Goshawks (the common variety and not the Kaffuri one) are available in the UK and it is best to get a parent or foster-parent reared bird as the others are notoriously badly behaved. Gyrs in general are not a bird for beginners - they are extremely tempremental. Wild ones can be seen in the autumn in the peak district of Derbyshire as captive ones have been let loose and bred.

The bird in the picture is certainly odd looking - not an eagle, definetly a falcon and possibly a young female saker. I have an interest in falconry and myself cannot understand where the idea of Guru's baz being the Gyr falcon came from. I suppose people presume this because they are generally whiter than other raptors and in the West are regarded as falcons used by emperors. However such falcons were not native to that part of Asia - indeed in the Baz Nama Yi Nasiri alludes to this bird being almost mythical in its rarity. In fact there is no great interest in them as far as eastern falconry is concerned. Examples would have had to come from Russia at that time (northwestern modern Russia) and transport over that distance then would have meant a very poor wretched bird if not a dead one, by the end of such a journey. My personal opinion is that Guruji's baz was a Goshawk. In the east this was regarded as the falcon of Kings. It was a seasonal visitor to the north of the subcontinent and flew in from the Atlas mountains. The Tiquin variety is likely to have been Guruji's hawk and was probably given to him by an Afghan Sikh. Its other name is the Kaffuri (not meaning infidel, but meaning pureness/ white). Examples can seem almost albino. Before 1947 the principle falconer's market for the north of the subcontinent was located at Amritsar (it then moved to Lahore where it is today and hence famous names such as Lahore-bells used in modern falconry around the world). The Sikh maharajas of the Punjab such as Patiala were principle patrons of falconry and it was known that Goshawks were purchased from Amritsar for very high prices. The price of a Kaffuri baz/ Tiquin baz was far higher than any other including the shaheen (peregrine) and shughar (saker) which were popular hunting birds amongst the zamindars of pre-independant Punjab.

Originally gutkas were practical ways to learn Gurbani from (as well as being portable and practical from that view point as well). There were punj and das granthi gutkas, containing the said number of works eg Punj Granthi: Japji, Japu, Rehras, Sohila, Anand. Das Granthi: Those plus Shabad Hazare, Sidh Gost, Bhavan Akhar, Sukhmani, Asa ki //. It was a method that one could aquire Gurbani knowledge in stages. Today the historical names are just that, and such gutkas contain any number of Gurbani, not just what the title neccessarily states.

The topic and question asked is not inappropriate for the site, but maybe, judging by some of the replies, the brother asking the question should have requested that married people only reply. I still maintain that what a married couple does in this regards is up to them. Sex between husband and wife should never be seen just as a means to reproduce. Still would value the opinion of more married amritdharis (I am not amritdhari) themselves - thus far only one such person has been forthcoming. If such is not forthcoming, then I guess the topic should be wound up.

Not amritdhari and no plans until later in my life to take amrit, but being married for nearly a decade now, this question has always crossed my mind - not just the kirpan, but the kacchera as well - all rather intrusive by my perspective. So I've asked a couple of people - the conversation took place when both guys were present and somehow we just got round to the subject (conversation started with young people and attitudes to marriage as far as I recall). They were both amritdhari Gursikhs - both married for many years and much older than me. They both agreed that kakkar are inseperable from the body - however both agreed that what privately occurs between married couples in this respect, should be without guilt, and they reckon that includes placing kakkar aside, within reach. Personally do what you and your wife feel most comfortable with - probably the reason that this is not addressed directly in Sikhi, unlike in Islam, is not out of conservatism, but that it is your private business.

The elders will remember a time when serving langar at the Gurudwara was not common and Gurudwaras relied upon the rare event when langar would be organised by someone out of special commission for Akhand Path for instance. Even in larger Gurudwaras in those times, the langar consisted of tandoor ovens where bread was baked and distributed to the poor who lived locally and came to colect it - your average visitor took prashad, but not langar. Therefore their attitude to langar is very casual and they do see it a bit like being in a restaurant. Personally I do not mind their attitude - its just the way they were nurtured and I doubt for a single moment that they mean any disrespect. It is nice to teach young ones to take the phulka respectfully and that's a good trend.

Avoid sand/ wire wool/ lemon juice/ sandpaper for good quality shastars - these will spoil the patina and leave horrible scratches. I've had great success with two products: 1. Brilliant Metal Restorer 2. Renaissance wax (Google these names) Use the metal restorer to remove rust and polish up, then use the wax to put a protective coat on the shastar. Do not store shastar in the miyans as humidity builds up - store out of the miyans when not being carried about. If cared for then the shastar will not need re-coating for a year. The Renaissance wax is a particularly good product and was developed for the British Museum to use for their exhibition pieces in the 1950s.

You make a good point about the artist. My own opinion is biased from my own perspective, which is probably a mile away from what its like for someone, who has to constantly watch his back on the streets. However I still think that it can easily lead someone to the wrong conclusions. We have been opressed and there is still ongoing, ample evidence of this in many examples around the world. But such injustices should never lead to the syndrome of us having a 'chip' on our shoulders. Sikhs have done fantastically as a community - much like those other opressed peoples - the Jews. Our success is partially down to the ease with which we integrate with all socities around the world and get on with things - hard work, whether using brain or brawn - a legitimate legacy of our opressions and determination not to be downtrodden. There is no need for a Singh/ Kaur to feel that society owes him, or that he needs to be vigilent against percieved threats - that is a schizoid view of the world and one which afflicts the Muslims around the world. The artist has put his point across in a manner that fails the characteristic of the children of Guru Gobind Singh. Our youth that lack self confidence, need a better parchaar - teach them about their heritage and if they truely have faith then the jot of sant-sipahi will reside in their hearts and be manifest in their outlook.

Interesting poll and one of the things which I too have wondered about. Myself - not amritdhari. Chhaking amrit? - Not in the near future, but I know that it will happen in my life. The problem with polls like this is that more amritdharis will tend to vote than non-amritdharis. This can be for all sorts of reasons eg non-amritdharis failing to be forthcoming due to being percieved in a lesser way, amritdharis being more forthcoming as they do not have that fear etc.... Interesting though - but unlikely to be representative.

I agree, the first set of prose (is that what's called rap? - I say prose because I have not heard how it goes.) is the wrong sort of thing to feed our youth - in fact when I first read it, I thought it was just the sort of cloacal produce from some hyped up street "wise-boy" Negro wannabee, that it aspires to blatantly be. Little to comment really - its just wrong, wrong, wrong....

Great post - this definitely made my day! Sant ji ranks amongst the mahashaheeds who left their mark on the takdir of the qaoum. Zindabad, Zindabad!!! p.s - Great picture of the man. The one in the Sikh Museum, Amritsar just does not capture the Lion hearted spirit of the Singh Soorma Gur Piyarea that he was.

Holy Bones!!!!!!!!!! Long time since I was there when I did my undergrad in Leicester - Used to be able to spot the Nishan Sahib from the train station - its about 20min fast walking from there. Easiest thing to do is spot a Singh and ask him - not hard in Leicester. I remember thinking that all Nishan Sahibs should be like that - towering high over cities (local aerospace rules accounted for of course!).

Watched the Remeberance Day Parade - I'm certain that in previous years there were some elderly Singhs in light blue turbans - surely not all dead now! I think the Indian contribution to both wars is under-rated in the UK, especially the Sikh contribution as above has rightly pointed out - a disproportionately large part of the Imperial army was made of Sikhs. In fact less than 2% of the popln is by modern standards, back then in pre-partition India we were an even smaller minority of the whole.

Will not even take degh from Gurughar.....Obviously such a so-called bibeki is an enemy of the Panth. Why else does he find it impossible to share food with his brothers and sisters?

Subtle, but different meanings... Surt = Consideration, judgement, memory Maat = Opinion, wisdom, intellect Mann = The mind, the soul Budh = Sense, understanding, disciminatory thought

Most of the shastar shops around Durbar Sahib sell them - that's where I got mine. In the UK Punjabi Roots in Smethwick sell both sizes - they used to have a website, but due to little sales they closed this down (so they told me when I inquired at their stall during the mela). I have to say that the kirpan itself is well made and a quality piece, but the miyan dissapoints and is a little too gaudy (ie bling-bling) for my liking.