Only five

1. What would you accept as proof? 2. I'm ignore this comment as the main goal of missionary leaders and foot soldiers is to split the Khalsa Panth up. But before shooting off know who your enemies are and who have no intention of hurting your religion. Better yet, those that have a knee j*rk reaction to many incidents should be doing or listening to one Sukhmani Sahib da paath everyday. You will be able to collect your thoughts a lot easier and understand who and when an enemy approaches.

Can you explain how putting up a picture of Satguru is idol worship? Have you sat with Gurmukhs or even listened to Gurmukhs speak on this topic? Gurmukhs state do not worship the Guru's picture, but take inspiration from it. Utilize the picture to re-construct how Satguru showed Gurbani through their actions. Gurmukhs say to put up Gurbani around the house and put up the pictures as well. To even begin to understand or explain Nirgun Saroop of Maharaj is very difficult. If you want we can start a new topic on Nirgun Saroop and all those that oppose putting up pictures can explain to the rest of us ignorant Sikhs how to understand and experience Nirgun Saroop. Many sages ("Hindu") of the past have tried to understand Nirgun Saroop, but they went off the path and came to the conclusion that there is no Brahmin/God or whatever you want to call him. You have been on here long enough to understand the dark hole the missionary are travelling on. These same people very soon will be no different than the Hindu sages of the past who say there is no God. Don't put one foot in the same hole. Sargun Nirgun Nirankar......

Say the picture looked exactly like the Guru, would you respect it then? Also showing respect and and worshipping the picture of the Guru's body is two different things. The Shabad you posted speak about worshipping not respecting.

<edited>

Why do you think Bhagat Kabir ji Maharaj even mentions Bhagat Prahlaad Ji Maharaj in the shabad, what was the point of mentioning the true occurence between Bhagat Prahlaad Ji Maharaj and his father, the king?

Its the power trip that makes some follow commands that they would never do if it wasn't for the person in higher authority demanding they follow through with the orders. A few test have been done to show that humans who are very moral and ethical people would break under the pressure and do unbelievable things to other humans. I don't think this was the case with KPS Gill as he was and is just a heartless human being. But it can be true with some of the officers that were commanded to kill, burn, and/or torture innocent Sikhs.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..........him.............that cats name is.... Honey I aint never coming back..............he runs the south coast pre-schools with lil bear...............selling that cake is good chedda............get them pre-school kids hooked on chocolate bars. They stuck on the question...........to be or not to be..........

Power to the sangat. Although there could be more political issues which are tied up with this. I say the sangat did the right thing by protesting. These Gurdwara committees have become drunk with power. If it wasn't for the young kids who come to help out at the Gurdwara and learn about sadh sangat, I would not put a penny in the golak today. Only in the Gurdwara where they treat the sangat with respect, which is very hard to find these days. No doubt this committee was trying to test the sangats ability to do something when the committee does something wrong. Some committee members have big mouths and they flap their gums all day. Many times I have heard from committee members.....don't worry about it....we'll do it and I know this sangat won't do anything or we'll do it when there is less sangat. Great response from the sangat for this issue.

It is not about whether you agree with the person's opinion. The point here is that Harbhajan Singh started the judgemental remarks. Another came and called him out on it. Instead of agree that yes Harbhajan Singh is also judging others. You choose to pick on the member for doing the same thing Harbhajan Singh did. You are having a hard time looking at this from a clear objective point of view. The impact is not what you referred to as judgemental. The remark its self is what you called judgemental without thinking that Harbhajan Singh started it. The reason why I am pushing this is because many people don't understand that everyone makes judgemental calls and only Satguru can say I made an absolute statement. Everything else is judgemental. Obviously Harbhajan Singh is not making an absolute remark here. Its his judgement and nothing more. When the law is set, it also is based on judgemental statements or views a certain group of people hold and they choose to govern that part of the world in their own way. You would not walk into a traffic hearing and tell the judge, you're being judgemental........you got this holier than thou attitude. I don't know which culture you are referring too, but I hopes its Khalsa because Punjabi culture has been around long before Satguru came in the form of Nanak. Punjabi culture does not equal Sikhi or Khalsa and neither does 3H0 mix christain beliefs with western american beliefs equal to be Sikhi. What Harbhajan Singh does surely effect the Khalsa culture. Somebody could come along and say he's a Khalsa and then somebody can come along and say hes a punjabi Khalsa. The impact is there as everything in this world makes an impact on something else. Harbhajan Singh does make good remarks, but then again he is judging others. Do you see the difference now? Overall the point here is, that you need to learn that I can go on every post of your's and write up a counter arguement where you will be rightfully accused of judging another. Stop being the judging police with a Punjab police uniform on. :biggrin2:

I'm not stopping you.........Its Satguru's shabad.

He starts the video off by mentioning Satguru and Satguru's beloved Sikhs. If hes not about Sikhi, then hes miss using Sikhi to his own ends.

Care to explain why you believe that?

1. So you see it as Harbhajan Singh is "criticizing" punjabi singers. The poster jasdeepsingh2k125 in return is "criticizing" the person who started the "criticizing". The fact is that you liked it when Harbhajan Singh passed judgement on punjabi singers. But didn't appreciate it when another passed judgement on Harbhajan Singh. Maybe the poster jasdeepsingh2k125 values and holds to a higher form of truth than the former. By the way , criticizing still involves making judgements. 2. Have you not seen punjabi singers videos on Sikhi that "agree with us" just like Harbhajan Singh "agrees with us"? What doesn't make sense is the over use of the word judgement. Not to pick on you, but over the years of being here on sikh sangat, I have seen you use this word when you don't agree with someone. It seems like an easy exit, but a conscious person would know that this word just puts me in the hot seat. Whatever you consider to be the truth is for you to know and analyze. However when another comes along and values a higher truth (don't just speak the truth be the truth), I would appreciate it that you don't have a knee j*rk reaction and throw the word judgemental out.

Who is Harbhajan Singh to judge someone else? Why does he have a holier than thou attitude? Who knows maybe Harbhajan Singh has more avgun than those he is judging. The brain works in funny ways. Those we praise, we forget to think is he judging? Posters throw the word judging around in every sentence when they don't agree with someone, just like the word taliban. Don't attack the messenger :biggrin2:

You keep up with the joneses :biggrin2: And I was simply replying to the non judgemental part........irony..... :biggrin2:

Is he getting married to this girl (Geeta Basra)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S9VPiNS6Vk

ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ॥ बिलावलु ॥ Bilāval. Bilaaval: ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਕੋਰੀ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਆਨੈ ਲੀਪਤ ਜੀਉ ਗਇਓ ॥ नित उठि कोरी गागरि आनै लीपत जीउ गइओ ॥ Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o. Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it. ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥ ताना बाना कछू न सूझै हरि हरि रसि लपटिओ ॥१॥ Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1|| He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1|| ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥ हमारे कुल कउने रामु कहिओ ॥ Hamāre kul ka▫une rām kahi▫o. Who in our family has ever chanted the Name of the Lord? ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जब की माला लई निपूते तब ते सुखु न भइओ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Jab kī mālā la▫ī nipūṯe ṯab ṯe sukẖ na bẖa▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o. Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause|| ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਏਕੁ ਭਇਓ ॥ सुनहु जिठानी सुनहु दिरानी अचरजु एकु भइओ ॥ Sunhu jiṯẖānī sunhu ḏirānī acẖraj ek bẖa▫i▫o. Listen, O my sisters-in-law, a wondrous thing has happened! ਸਾਤ ਸੂਤ ਇਨਿ ਮੁਡੀਂਏ ਖੋਏ ਇਹੁ ਮੁਡੀਆ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਮੁਇਓ ॥੨॥ सात सूत इनि मुडींए खोए इहु मुडीआ किउ न मुइओ ॥२॥ Sāṯ sūṯ in mudīʼne kẖo▫e ih mudī▫ā ki▫o na mu▫i▫o. ||2|| This boy has ruined our weaving business. Why didn't he simply die? ||2|| ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਇਓ ॥ सरब सुखा का एकु हरि सुआमी सो गुरि नामु दइओ ॥ Sarab sukẖā kā ek har su▫āmī so gur nām da▫i▫o. O mother, the One Lord, the Lord and Master, is the source of all peace. The Guru has blessed me with His Name. ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥੩॥ संत प्रहलाद की पैज जिनि राखी हरनाखसु नख बिदरिओ ॥३॥ Sanṯ parahlāḏ kī paij jin rākẖī harnākẖas nakẖ biḏri▫o. ||3|| He preserved the honor of Prahlaad, and destroyed Harnaakhash with his nails. ||3|| ਘਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰ ਕੀ ਛੋਡੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਲਇਓ ॥ घर के देव पितर की छोडी गुर को सबदु लइओ ॥ Gẖar ke ḏev piṯar kī cẖẖodī gur ko sabaḏ la▫i▫o. I have renounced the gods and ancestors of my house, for the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਪ ਖੰਡਨੁ ਸੰਤਹ ਲੈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ॥੪॥੪॥ कहत कबीरु सगल पाप खंडनु संतह लै उधरिओ ॥४॥४॥ Kahaṯ Kabīr sagal pāp kẖandan sanṯėh lai uḏẖāri▫o. ||4||4|| Says Kabeer, God is the Destroyer of all sins; He is the Saving Grace of His Saints. ||4||4||

I believe you understand the concern that has been raised by others so there is no need to go back and forth about it. And I have no intentions of knocking your seva down. You have stated yourself this new calendar has different dates than the current calendar which is followed at Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Anyways, i'll wait for the article.

why, whats so good about it?

How fast we forget. Sri Akal Takht Sahib just recently for Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji Maharaj Parkash had to tell the Sikh sangat and Gurdwaras to celebrate on January 18 as many fanatical characters decided to celebrate early. Are you or whoever made up the new calendar going to present it to Sri Akal Takht Sahib?

The people that have gathered the information to get the correct dates should present the calendar to Sri Akal Takht Sahib. One benti I have and I believe others would want the same, is not to distribute the new calendar until Sri Akal Takht Sakhib approves of it. We need to learn from Gurmukhs that we praise every day. Nothing good can come out of releasing the new calendar as the Khalsa Panth is already confused over the two calendars that are being used by Sikhs. These type of decisions need to be made at the Panthic level and not in jathas or individually. Essence of Sikhi is to celebrate Maharaj's infinity state everyday. Maharaj never comes or goes anywhere, he is always present.

I guess I should have been more subtle with the original post. What I was really hoping for was Dhunda supporters to come out of the shadows and really tell rest of the sangat why they praise and glorify him so much. Maybe I should have put this thread up in the gupt section and we would have got Dhunda supporters to reply. Chalo one Dhunda supporter that liked my post is good enough. Whether you’re a Dhunda supporter or Hari Singh Randhawa supporter or support someone else or a combination of preachers. One thing we all need to recognize is that we are brothers and sisters who are stuck on the same problems and need help from one and only Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. I know we all can agree here. Dhunda Sahib goes on and on about how everyone should follow Satguru, listen to Satguru, and read Gurbani. I know the Dhunda supporters mostly likely watched Dhunda Sahib’s video I posted in the thread starting post with complete attention. Many of you most likely bragged about how the whole Gurdwara was packed to listen to Dhunda do katha. You like him a lot and I understand that. However here are couple of questions I have for the Dhunda supporters. No Dhunda supporter needs to come on Sikh sangat and answer these questions, but do ask these question deep down where you don’t hear Dhunda’s voice or anyone else’s voice deep down in yourself. Dhunda on many occasions tells the sangat in his katha that Sants and Babas are breaking sangat away from Satguru. However how many people in the sangat were actually there to have Maharaj’s darshan and listen to Gurbani in the video I posted? Be honest when you answer this question deep inside. Again I’ll repeat Dhunda tells the sangat many times listen to Satguru and read Gurbani. It’s very simple the sangat was there only listen to Dhunda and could care less Maharaj is sitting on his Takht. If you don’t believe me then go to the same Gurdwara on Friday when Dhunda is not there and see how much sangat is there. If Dhunda really wants the sangat to listen to Gurbani and understand it, then why doesn’t he have a Pothi of Gurbani in front him and he can be just reciting Gurbani to the whole sangat for the hour and half? Why does he even speak his own words when on Gurdwara stages? If he is doing Katha, then why doesn’t he do katha with a Pothi Sahib where Satguru is speaking and he translates the difficult Gurmukhi words into Punjabi? If he really wants sangat to listen to Satguru then he would ask the sangat, why do you only pack the Gurdwara Sahib when I come to your Gurdwara? Why don’t you come to listen to Akhand Paaths that happen every weekend at the Gurdwara? Instead Dhunda Sahib takes tuks of Gurbani and then wraps these tuks with his own words and makes the sangat listen to what he wants to say. The tuk is only being told because the tuk of Gurbani provides evidence to what he says and is not being said because the tuk of Gurbani explains what Shabad Guru is actually saying to you. He’s breaking Gurbani (doing beadbi) in front of you and you sit there with a big smile on your face as a father see’s his son bring a fat pay cheque home for the first time. Just last week I was at an Akhand Paath and guess when the sangat came to pack the Gurdwara? It was on the last day when the Bhog had happened and when there was three angs left to be read. The first two days the Darbar hall was practically empty. Is the sangat really there to listen to Gurbani? You must be on planet Mars to think they are there to listen to Satguru. The Gurdwaras get packed because Dhunda is going to do “katha” not of Gurbani, but what he thinks Sikhi ought to be. No one has to tell us (Sikhs) what Sikhi ought to be because Satguru has already explained Sikhi through Gurbani, Rehat, Sikh history, and Hukamnama. In essence Dhunda is the biggest hyprocrite today, in the Khalsa Panth. Dhunda Sahib is breaking sangat away from Satguru himself and then attaching the sangat to what he believes Sikhi is. Dhunda Sahib believes Jaap Sahib is not Guru Sahib’s Bani, Vaheguru simran or any other simran is useless (Dhan Dhan Dhan Bhagat Prahlaad Maharaj ji who slaps Dhunda in the face by doing Raam simran and Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj comes to protect Bhagat ji), he believes that Dasam Bani is not Guru Sahib Bani, and the list goes on. Such is the reality of Dhunda and many brothers and sisters have fallen victim to his games. You can laugh at all the fake Babas and their followers all you want, but you are no different than them. The baba followers physically wash the babas feet and you wash fake Baba Dhunda Sahib’s feet by letting the Gurdwara committee give your hard earned money in the form of gold medals. Do your research by listening to Dhunda Sahibs kathas and interviews. Any time this fake Baba Dhunda is asked a question he gives answers that contradict each other. This fake baba can’t even give a straight answer for questions that have straight answers, but you want him to attach you to Sikhi. Have you not learned anything over the past decade you have been targeting Babas? Babas make their own deras and break sangat, but Dhunda Sahib is sitting in your Guru's presence and breaking you away from your Guru. Both are thieves Babas and Dhunda, but who is a bigger theif here? It’s time to wake up and ask the difficult questions to the atma that no one wants to ask. If you truly want to practice Sikhi and accept seva from Maharaj, then you can’t hide in the shadows from these questions.

For the past decade the main focus of most Sikhs and Sikh preachers is to target Sants because many people are going to them for help in all aspects of life. Many preachers have been very out spoken against Sants for breaking sangat and then attaching the sangat to themselves. I know some will cringe when they read this topic, but the truth is the truth. Many Sants have divided the Sikh sangat. One of the main preacher that is fighting such wrongful acts is Sarbjit Singh Dhunda and for that he should be recognized as doing a service for the sangat. He is trying to get the Sikh sangat together on one platform and trying to get rid of the division caused by many factors. Here is one video where he tries to get sangat together on one platform: The Sikh sangat needs to unity and come to Satguru's door and follow Satguru. There are many Baba's that don't want this happening and Dhunda is trying to fight against such forces that have backing from governments and other anti-sikh forces.

Not until next week. God has gone on vacation................thats second time in three weeks..........