Sukhdeep Singhh

Why is it that our bodies digest vegetables faster then meat, and why is is those people who eat meat have a higher risk of heart disease and prostate cancer? GOd built our hands so we could plant, and pull vegetables, not so we can kill creatures. Civil and compassionate man still follows this vegetarian diet, while the heartless beast still likes to eat like animals.

I dont want to be focusing on other peoples Jivan or views thats why I do not try to look into these things. I know the California Singhs have strict standards in allowing Kirtan seva . They will not allow seva if someone has done something against Gurmat. Thus I respect this policy and do not try to waste my time figuring out why certain people cant do kirtan. But just to clear matters up one of the SInghs you mentioned above is banned from doing Kirtan because of his perverse and manmat view of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. As he stated Dasmesh Pita Ji's pavitar Bani was written by a Bahman. Thus he will no longer be invited to do kirtan unless he changes his postion on Dasmi Patshahs Bani. Again I dont want this to turn into a Sri Dasam Granth debate, as the forum has already affirmed its position on this view. In regards to Jatha and Sri Dasam Granth. Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji has regarded it as Bani. Yet people still doubt and say Bhai Sahib wrote that many years ago, and since then people could have added things to Sri Dasam Granth. If thats the case then why are they doubting/denying the previous Jathedar Pooran Jis stance on Sri Dasam Granth. He has clearly regarded all Banis contained as Sri Guru Gobind SIngh Ji in Sri Dasam Granth. This announcement/press statment is available on the net. This is my last post on this thread. As I have stated I dont want to focus on other peoples life, they know what they think, believe, and did. I am not into Jatha politics nor am I part of any Jatha. I just like the Maryada followed by the Jatha, and I like having Sangat of Naam Abhyiaas Gursikhs. Also, I just wanted to clear matters up so people dont get the wrong impression about California SInghs

:D Do you have link for the above smagam? Hopefully they will be up on Keertan.net in the near future.

Exactly Guru Sahib resides in his humble servants. Thus this does not mean he choses one particular individual and comes as an avtar. These statements are blasphemy. Guru Sahib resides in his humble saints regardless of their particular group ( Rara Sahib, Nanaksar, AKJ) I doubt that Bhai Randhir Singh Ji , Baba ISher Singh Ji ( Rara), or Baba Nand Singh Ji distinguish any differerence among themselves. They only see and know Waaheguru. They have no indvidual personality. Its quite disrespectful to give these Gurumukhs a personality that is seperate from Guru Ji. Therefore, I dont think we should be making distinctions between any of these saints .

I do not know what Bhai Amolak SIngh did, nor is it my business. This is strict policy that no particular person is above. Maybe in Australia and India the standards are not as strict. I have heard that Tapoban follow similar strict standards when allowing Kirtan seva. Cali Smagams are still awesome. This year Bhai Gurdev SIngh did keertan for 3 hours which included Sri Dasam Granth Banis like Akal Ustat. Bhai Gurpreet SIngh did Naam Abhyiaas for at least one hour, Bhai Prabhjot Singh finished the Smagam in which he also recited Banis from Sri Dasam Granth. Personally I dont know of any Smagams besides Bay Area smagams in which bani ( Sri Dasam Granth Bani) that has been neglected for many years is being reintroduced to sangat . We have remained blind to the beautiful banis of Sri Dasam Granth for many years its nice to see that these banis are being sung in Smagam nowadays. Im not saying California Smagams are the best , I believe all smagams in which Naam Simran and Gurbani are being recited are great. I just believe we shouldnt be focus on the Kirtani instead we should be focusing on the Kirtan.

Singh Ji that beautiful shabad you provided refers to Sach Khand. When the atma leaves the body and reaches Sach Khand through the Dasam Duar ( 10th plane) there is no reason for food and sleep there. THis is a state Mahapursh reach when doing Naam Abhyiaas its not a state they are in at all times. Because obviosuly when doing wordly chores there atma is still in their sareer. I think its unfair to label my understandng as kala afghana type. Im questioning contradicting stories that people make up about Baba Ji. For example they say Baba Ji did not eat sleep, yet they say Baba Ji said people should offer food to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Sahib resides in Sach Khand where there is no need for food or sleep, why offer food then? ALso, why does Guru Ji need food if Baba Ji didnt? These are very contradicting statements/stories that should be questioned with reason. God gave us reason to prevent people from fooling us. There is a time to use reason, and in these cases it is important to use. Singh Ji that beautiful shabad you provided refers to Sach Khand. When the atma leaves the body and reaches Sach Khand through the Dasam Duar ( 10th plane) there is no reason for food and sleep there. THis is a state Mahapursh reach when doing Naam Abhyiaas its not a state they are in at all times. Because obviosuly when doing wordly chores there atma is still in their sareer. I think its unfair to label my understandng as kala afghana type. Im questioning contradicting stories that people make up about Baba Ji. For example they say Baba Ji did not eat sleep, yet they say Baba Ji said people should offer food to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Sahib resides in Sach Khand where there is no need for food or sleep, why offer food then? ALso, why does Guru Ji need food if Baba Ji didnt? These are very contradicting statements/stories that should be questioned with reason. God gave us reason to prevent people from fooling us. There is a time to use reason, and in these cases it is important to use.

Bay Area sangat has a strict policy about allowing kirtan seva. If someone has done something wrong then they cannot do this seva untill they do pesh. This is not something new . During Bhai Randhir Singhs time the standards were even more sticter then today in regards to AKJ programs.

Jug Jug Satgur Dhereah avtaara. The word avtaar is composed of two words, av(downwards) and taar(passage) refers to the descent of God in his transcendental form into this mundane world. The supreme Lord takes avtaar in every Juga.The reason for the Lord to take avtaar is clearly has beeb clearly stated - Jab Jab Bhereah Arisht Apara Tab Tab Dheh Tharat Avtaara. Whenever spirituality begins to decline, the Lord himself takes avtaar in the world to save mankind. Param Purakh Paavan Sadah Aaph Pargat Ho Aae, Aaph Pargat Ho Aae Din Racaha Keah Karan. I didn't know that our Gurus could transcend into avtaars because Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the embodiment of Gurus and IS the Guru. Slightly confused... help a brother out! Veer Ji you are right Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru and is the Avtar or Akal Purakh. Dont let fabricated stories confuse you. Shastr- I think the pangti you provided the word sant refers to Guru Sahiban meaning Guru Sahiban ( Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) and Raam ( God) are one, do not doubt that this. Matheen I 100 percent agree with what you said. I do get upset when people write books and make up stories. If this post was about someone else I would not get upset. But since it was about Baba Nand SIngh Ji someone I highly respect I got upset. I would get just as upset if people said false things about Sant Isher Singh Ji ( Rara) <, Sant Attar Singh Ji ( mastana) , Bhai RANDHIR siNGH jI, or any other Gurmukh I respect.

Veer Ji/ Bhenji (?) you forgot to add how much Naam Simran you do. Naam Abhyiaas is the most highest and supreme rehat everyhing else is secondary. Currently I only do 1 hour of Naam Abhyiaas for Amrit Vela :sad: But with Guru Jis beant Kirpa I hope to extend it to 2.5 hours a day. Since its summer and I have more free time If set a firm schedule rite now I think it would be more easier to maintain when my schedule becomes more busier. Personally speaking, naam simran is a must (especially at amrit vela) but in no ways is gurbani secondary to this. There are ck Gursikhs that do japji sahib, sukhmani sahib abhiyaas whilst others do mool mantar abhiyaas etc. That doesn't go to say that they are getting less phal. Veer Ji I respect your opinion but I just believe there is no higher deed then Waaheguru Mantar Jaap. Doing japji sahib, sukhmani sahib abhiyaas is a great thing in deed and such things come through Guru Jis blessing. srb Drm mih sRyst Drmu ] sarab dhharam mehi sraesatt dhharam || Of all religions, the best religion hir ko nwmu jip inrml krmu ] har ko naam jap niramal karam || is to chant the Name of the Lord and maintain pure conduct. sgl ik®Aw mih aUqm ikirAw ] sagal kiraaa mehi ootham kiriaa || Of all religious rituals, the most sublime ritual swDsMig durmiq mlu ihirAw ] saadhhasa(n)g dhuramath mal hiriaa || is to erase the filth of the dirty mind in the Company of the Holy. sgl audm mih audmu Blw ] sagal oudham mehi oudham bhalaa || Of all efforts, the best effort hir kw nwmu jphu jIA sdw ] har kaa naam japahu jeea sadhaa || is to chant the Name of the Lord in the heart, forever. sgl bwnI mih AMimRq bwnI ] sagal baanee mehi a(n)mrith baanee || Of all speech, the most ambrosial speech hir ko jsu suin rsn bKwnI ] har ko jas sun rasan bakhaanee || is to hear the Lord's Praise and chant it with the tongue. sgl Qwn qy Ehu aUqm Qwnu ] sagal thhaan thae ouhu ootham thhaan || Of all places, the most sublime place, nwnk ijh Git vsY hir nwmu ]8]3] naanak jih ghatt vasai har naam ||8||3|| O Nanak, is that heart in which the Name of the Lord abides. ||8||3|| Gupt Gursikhs you guys really have a blessed rehat. Could you share with sangat how you are able to maintain a strong rehat so we can learn as well.

Veer Ji/ Bhenji (?) you forgot to add how much Naam Simran you do. Naam Abhyiaas is the most highest and supreme rehat everyhing else is secondary. Currently I only do 1 hour of Naam Abhyiaas for Amrit Vela :sad: But with Guru Jis beant Kirpa I hope to extend it to 2.5 hours a day. Since its summer and I have more free time If set a firm schedule rite now I think it would be more easier to maintain when my schedule becomes more busier.

If I have said anything on this thread to offend anyone then please forgive me. Try to understand I have not said anything negative towards Baba Ji. Guru Ji alone knows my intentions, and how I feel about his Gursevaks. Over the last year I have learned not to believe people/groups and their stories, but to only place hope and faith in Gurmat. Agian I have no propaganda, I do not belong to any group nor am I a follower of any particular group or person. So again please forgive me If I dont accept or conform to your ideas. I can only put faith in the stories written within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj as Guru Ji describes what he sees with his own eyes, any other stories by other people are irrelevant and inaccurate for me. gux byAMq suAwmI qyry koie n jwneI ] gun baea(n)th suaamee thaerae koe n jaanee || Your Glorious Virtues are endless, O my Lord and Master; no one knows them all. dyiK clq dieAwl suix Bgq vKwneI ] dhaekh chalath dhaeiaal sun bhagath vakhaanee || Seeing and hearing of Your wondrous plays, O Merciful Lord, Your devotees narrate them.

Thank you Administrators or Nehmat (?) for removing those false stories.

Why would I be jealous of a Saint of Guru Ji. I only find it disturbing for people to make things up about Baba Ji and try to make him greater then Guru. Nobody can be greater then Guru. myry mn gur jyvfu Avru n koie ] maerae man gur jaevadd avar n koe || O my mind, there is no other as great as the Guru. dUjw Qwau n ko suJY gur myly scu soie ]1] rhwau ] dhoojaa thhaao n ko sujhai gur maelae sach soe ||1|| rehaao || I cannot imagine any other place. The Guru leads me to meet the True Lord. ||1||Pause|| If you read my previous post you will notice I have never said anything bad about Baba Ji. I have great respect for this humble saint. If there anyone who deserves to get the title Sant/Gurmukh/Bhagat/Khalsa then only true GUrmukhs like Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Attar SIngh ( Mastuna)Baba Isher Singh JI ( rara sahib) , Bhai Sahib Randhir Ji, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, Sant Harnam SIngh Ji ( Rampur Khera), etc should get this titile. I only get disturbed when people try to fabricate information about such Gurmukhs. These people were sole servants of Guru Ji, lets not try to make up stories about them that make them greater or seperate from Guru Ji. Nanaksar Dera Baba Nand Singh Ji later established his "Dera" (centre) near Kalera in Punjab. He led a simple life and continued with the same principles of deep meditation. The food for the "Dera" would come from different devotees though no cooking was done at the "Dera" itself. This practice is still continued by the "Dera" now popularly known as Nanaksar. The food, "langar", is not prepared at Nanaksar but it is sent by the nearby villages and no matter how big the congregation, never ever has has there been a shortage. No monetary offerings are ever made in front of the Guru Granth Sahib at Nanaksar, as the usual practice is at other Gurdwaras, but never a shortage of funds has occurred there. Baba Ji did not use any money on himself. He always served the community with true love and affection. It is said that once Maharaja Bhupender Singh of Patiala came to offer one lakh rupees for the Gurdwara fund but Baba Ji politely refused the offer. This was the first time someone had ever declined the offer of accepting money for a religious place from a Maharaja and of course the Maharaja felt bad and told Baba Ji, "You will not find a donor like Bhupender Singh". To this Baba Ji replied, "You will not find another person who is prepared to sacrifice everything and yet be fully committed like Nand Singh". This made the Maharaja humble and respectful and he bowed his head before Baba Ji. Baba Ji left for his heavenly abode in 1943 (13 Bhadron Sanmat 2000) at the age of 73. His Teachings " Be True Sikh " Do charity, speak truth and embrace humility " Emphasized on Naam Simran (Meditation) " Have faith on Akalpurkh alone " Choose a charitable cause and pursue it with selfless devotion " Have Love for all and every one " Have faith and respect the Holy Body of Sri Guru Granth Sahib as the Living Sikh Guru. " Praise only Guru Nanak Dev Ji and criticise and condemn only oneself. " Pray before Guru Granth Sahib only for all blessings and effacing of sufferings. Respect for Maharaj Ji The unique way in which Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is respected as the living Guru at Nanaksar Gurdwara is worthy of praise. One instance of the utmost devotion and respect shown by Baba ji is given here: In the winter season of 1938, Baba ji visited the town of Baghanwala. The Thaath could not be constructed immediately. Baba ji observed , "I have not come here to eat food. I have not been able to have Grace and the sight of Divine Guru. If Guru Granth Sahib ji is not brought here by tomorrow I shall go I elsewhere. On this, the whole town came to the spot and worked day and night to complete The Thaath. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, was brought by S. Sukha Singh Manglani. After the kirtan of the morning Bani had finished Baba ji submitted to the Guru. "0 True King! I am highly thankful to you. Blessed are the paths, on which you have travelled. Kindly excuse me for the trouble that you have taken. I beg your pardon." Baba ji then took off his long turban, keeping the small one tied on the head. He first wiped the feet of Bhai Sukha Singh ji then, spread it on the ground, and requested Bhai Sahib to walk on it while carrying the Guru Granth Sahib ji on his head. Where one turban ended, another was spread. Thus the great saint Baba Nand Singh ji used to love and respect the Ever-lasting Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Dont let your relationship with God be based on your worldly success. This is a mistake that millions make.There relationship with God is based on material deals. "God if you give me this I will love you , if you dont then forget you" This is treating the valueless God who has infinite wealth as a cheap commodity. We all go through hardtimes. This is a test on our faith to accept GOds will and know everything he does is for our own good. Who knows maybe you have been laid off numerous times because God has something more suitable for you.

I think when a sense of seeking Justice builds up in our minds then we can organize ourselves and confront these issue. However due to maya ( materialistic addictions) this sense of justice does not exist in our minds. We are willing to take injustices as long we are not victims. iKAwl pwiqSwhI 10] khiaal paathishaahee 10|| Khyal By the Tenth King imqR ipAwry nMU hwl murIdW dw kihxw ] mithr piaarae na(n)oo haal mureedhaa(n) dhaa kehinaa || Tell the Beloved Friend (God) the plight of us, the Disciples. quDu ibnu rogu rjweIAW dw EFx nwg invwsW dy rihxw ] thudhh bin rog rajaaeeaaa(n) dhaa oudtan naag nivaasaa(n) dhae rehinaa || "Without You, it is a torment to wear quilts (in winter) and living in imposing mansion is like dwelling with snakes." sUl surwhI KMjru ipAwlw ibMg ksweIAW dw sihxw ] sool suraahee kha(n)jar piaalaa bi(n)g kasaaeeaaa(n) dhaa sehinaa || The flask is like a (honed) spike, the goblet is like a dagger and (your separation) is akin to enduring the thrust of a butcher's knife. XwrVy dw swnMU s~Qru cMgw B~T KyiVAW dw rihxw ] 1] 1] 6] yaararrae dhaa saana(n)oo saathhar cha(n)gaa bhaat(h) khaerriaaa(n) dhaa rehinaa || 1|| 1|| 6|| The bare floor of (our Beloved) Friend is acceptable to us. Living in towns is like living in a furnace.(1)(1)(6)

That is an excellent question which until now I have not thought about. I think when the thoughts are quick, unfocused, persuaded by bodily pleasures, and the thought are focuses on one self/ Eho then this is Manmat at influence. But when the mind is calm, focusing on the teachings or character of Guru with humility then this is Guru guiding you

Rehat means to abandon the perverse/crafty teachings the mind and adopt the teachings of the GUru.

God is the King,and we are his subjects. God is the Father and we are his children. God is the protecting Husband, and we are the insecure bridesmaid. God is a deep ocean without a surface, and we are tiny droplets of that ocean. God can be known through his praise/worship. We learn his praises through Gurbani, and Gurbani is the key to unlock the hidden world of God within us.

Smagam starts tomorrow 2 am at Fremont Gurdwara. :rolleyes:

Veer ji, it is well known that Baba Ji did not 'sleep', nor did Brahmgyani, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale - if you listen to Giani Thakur singh ji's katha you can get more giaan on this issue. Personally, dass has had the darshan of Akhaie Prem Kaie Aasuo Saie Tar flowing from a enlightened soul while 'sleeping'. It is true that we - as humans need to sleep and eat but true Brahmgyanis are above such necessities. Veer ji you call other members, 'ill intentioned Brahmins'. It is not just to attack any member simply because you do not understand their view or agree with them. You are very clever in your wording - you say Baba jis was a true Bramhgyani and at the same time you question them, but remember - bhuqu isAwxp Brmu n jwey ] bahuth siaanap bharam n jaaeae || Even great cleverness does not dispel doubt. i was not referring to any members as ill Intentioned Brahmins. I am referring to people who have wrote books saying these things about Baba Ji. As many people like to make strories up about Baba Ji.Take the story on this thread which makes Baba ji look like Baba Amar Das Ji and makes Harnam SIngh look like Guru Angad Dev Ji. Using Sikh sakhis in such a modern way is very much wrong. In regards to sleep. A person can sleep and still think deeply about God. Sleep is needed for the material body to rest. There are numerous authentic and greatly accepted Sakhis by the panth which illustrate Pehli Paatshah slept. For example, when Guru Ji was sleeping and resting in the fields on a hot day a snake came behind him and covered his head from the Sun. Similarily when Guru Ji was sleeping in Mecca, Jivan came up to him and kicked Guru Sahib. Lets not try to make up false stories about Baba Nand Singh which try make him greater then Guru Ji. Im sure Baba Ji does not approve of these things. The Gurmantar is WaaheGuru not WaaheSant.

stick around and you'll realize islamphobia is very high among some members here. Why is this the case? If we have Guru Gobind Singh Ji as our Guru and general why should we worry about these things?

Bhai Sahib you should continue with the Seva you are performing and do not let these worries trouble you. Guru Sahib will take care of you. If you need direction then take Hukumnama with complete faith and Guru Ji will provide all the answers. In regards the Grishti Jeevan it is possible to live love and serve Guru Ji even as an householder. Just make sure you marry someone who has the same beliefs that way you can both go to the Gurdwara and serve Guru Ji. I remember when I was living in England there was a Singh at the Smethick Gurdwara he would be at the Gurdwara all day. I think he would go there before work, during lunch break, and after work and do seva ( langar, clean bathrooms) he never chatted with anyone he would do seva all day with so much faith. On many days he would also bring his children along and they would clean bathrooms and langar hall. This Gursikh who lived a Grishti Jeevan and did so much nishkam seva with so much pyaar was a real inspiration to me. These are the true sants . We need more examples like this in the Gurdwaras. Do not let people fill your mind with doubts or worries accepts Guru Jis will and things were work out naturally. I dont think that Baba meant anything bad when he made the comment. Its often the case people pefrom seva, paat, for the purpose of material gains. he is probably use to seeing this so he made that comment.

Bhai Sahib I definitely agree with you that we should never talk bad or see bad in anybody. Anybody who does the opposite well never receive Guru Jis blessing. We should love and see God in all. Not eating from non-baptized Sikhs has nothing to do with looking down on people. It is a diet for those who try to base there whole life on Naam Abyiaas . Looking down on a person and believing a person who does not live a Gursikh Jivan is unfortunate are two different things. There is nothing wrong with positive discrimination. For example there is nothing wrong with avoiding people who smoke, or not getting married and having relations with Non- Gursikhs, or disassocating with those who kill female babies. Not hanging around with such people doesnt mean we think their evil or bad, it will effect our jeevans to do such things. A person who is taken Amrit and lives a Gursikh Jivan and recites Naam when making food that food will be greatly blessed. Partaking of such food will not effect inner amrit. Kaljug remarks were very extreme. He does not understand Bibek as he has labeled it as Bahamnism. If people did not eat just from Gursikhs and did not touch other peoples food or did not allow people to touch their food then that is Bahamanism. But people who follow this diet wont eat from Gursikhs who are idle in their rehat and Naam Abhyiaas, therefore noone can refer to it as discrimination, or casteism, looking down on non- Gursikhs. I dont want to aruge about this issue. I only made the comment about not eating from people who cut their Kes because Baba Jis writings in the original post made me think that those people who commit one of the Bujjar Kurehits truly live a cursed life, and I remember reading an article by Baba Waryam Singh Ji in which Baba Ji says do not eat from Non- Gursikhs as there lifes are cursed. WHen I read that pangti which says "without Kes who will save the crying being from hell" my heart was beating in fear for all those I know that dont have Kes. Again im not trying to force my views on anyone I believe that we should follow rehat in which we think pleases Guru Ji. But I dont think its fair for people to call a particular rehat which is given by Panj Pyaarey as Bahanism. This is greatly wrong. pRQm rhq eyhI hY khI ] pwhul mYN jo isMGn khI ] prathham rehath eaehee hai kehee || paahul mai(n) jo si(n)ghan kehee || The most important principle is to forever remember the Rehat given by the Singhs at the initiation ceremony. U kw isK hovY, so AYsI rihq dI Kojxw krY, jyhVI rihq swihb KuSI AwvY guroo kaa sikh hovai so aisee rehith dhee khojanaa karai jaeharree rehith saahib khushee aavai The Sikh of the Guru should study Rehat and discipline and they should adopt those principles that please the Guru. Rehatnama Bhai Chaupaa Singh Jee

Which part in the bold did you have trouble understanding? Kindly, benti can you remove your posts and start a new thread, instead of ruining this one. Or can admin sepearate it? Many thanks! I have discussed practices by a true Brahmgiani and have questioned practiced introduced by ill intentioned Brahmins. So what is the problem. This is a forum were people have the right to learn and be informed. Isnt it?

THis week the California Smagam will take place. Please make an effort to come and join with the sangat. The schedule can be viewed below. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3328/360255...1d2b2fee2_b.jpg