West London Singh

I actually this this fella's got some things to say that need to be said. Things that don't seem to have been said by others in fear of being beheaded by the hysteria built up over this incident. The fella's saying the girl was out in the middle of the night with her boyfriend and was so wasted she accepted lifts from strange vehicles. If not rape then what was going to be the likely outcome of such a scenario ?

I've said it many times before....I'll say it again. If there's one thing that stops organisations taking notice of letters from people.....it is when lots and lots of people are sending in identical letters. Everything about these letters implies that there is no genuine individual feeling about the said matter.....its simply a case of an organised chain letter. The BBC will only take notice when thousands of us send in letters written with words from our own hearts. Write your own letters. Put down in writing that which is in your heart.

What amazingly stupid things to say Dal Singh. :wow: Your bitterness towards life really has started to manifest itself strongly in the last week or so. Remind me again brother.........What exactly have 'jatts' and the 'licking the boots' of said people got to do with me celebrating the beauty of diversity in UK society ? Remind me again brother.........Who exactly told me to say the UK is so wonderful ? Who exactly were these strange people that you say came in the night and gave me an eye transplant in my sleep so that I would only see what 'they' want me to see ? And who exactly are 'they' ? There really is something quite sinister and dark about you Dal Singh. You positively ooze bitterness, depression, hatred and intolerance.

I wouldn't trust Badal further than I could throw him. And trust me.....I'd like to throw him very far....and hard. And then jump on his head just to make sure some permanent damage has been done. Badal is the reason 'NRI Punjabis' don't wanna invest in Punjab. He is whats wrong with Punjab. Him now making sweet talk with nri's is like a spider beckoning a fly with kind words.

I have no idea what your even trying to say. Go abroad. See how things are everywhere else......and then you'll realise how good we've got it, Take France for example......they've got this sort of unofficial apartheid system whereby the keep all the non-white / non-christian French ghettoised in the bleak suburbs away from the city centre. Zero chance of a job.....zero chance of a proper life. America, Canada and Australia too......have neighbourhoods that are exlusively one social class or one social race. Here in London though we have the poorest and the richest living on the same street in the same neighbourhoods and their children going to the same school. Take Islington in north London. The same local neighbourhoods house the richest and most powerful and influential in the land as well as the poorest and most disenfranchised. Bleak social housing council towers on the same little streets as £15 Million houses. This is replicated all over London. We are without a doubt the greatest city on earth and without a doubt the most wonderfullly integrated and diverse. Life is good. Celebrate it. Don't mourn it.

Wow ! I'm shocked reading this thread. Not so much with the 'Singh' in question but how common it is for my fellow Sikhs to be so dumb that they watch low-brow stuff on ITV. Honestly, I think the only time ITV has ever been on in our house is when they have a football match on. I always saw it as the channel for the thickos'. So.....thicko Singh goes on a thicko show that only thickos watch. Why have I just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading about it ? :blink2:

The whole world looks at England.....visits England and marvels at the best diversity in the world. The best integration in the world. The French.....The Germans....The Italians...The whole world sees us as being the most fantastically integrated diverse nation. Bus us ? We're back to our national stereotype of being moaning minnies. Permanently seeing the glass as half-empty we're not capable of seeing anything positive in anything. Take a look at the average photograph of a Sikh in America or Canada and then compare it to the average photograph of a UK Sikh. The first thing you'll notice is how depressed and miserable the UK Sikh looks. Seriously....we live in the greatest....most diverse....most integrated melting pot. Its fantastic. Celebrate it !

Interesting piece in The Guardian today. Next time England play a qualifier in Tblisi perhaps we should go ? http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/07/georgia-punjab-migrants-farming

Is this actually true ? I say this because, having very close relations in Southampton, the place is actually well known for having one of the most thriving gursikh youth. For example, the Sunday morning gurmat classes your Gurdwaras run. Am I mistaken in thinking that 90% of the youth on it were haircut youths from families with no history of kes or paghs but now 90% of those very same mone youths are in the process of growing their hair and taking Amrit ? Is my information wrong ? Again, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the new granthi of the Southampton Gurdwara the very famous Punjabi bhangra singer Jaswinder Jass ? ( for those of you that don't know...the man actually deserves our tremendous respect. You can search for his videos all over you tube and it is everything all of us hate about modern bhangra. But jago came to him without any of us preaching to him. He woke up one day and decided that every single thing about his profession was wrong and decided to use his voice and skills for Sikhi) Like I said....I know Southampton well. For other visitors to Southampton the 'other' Gurdwara is the Nanaksar Gurdwara literally 30 seconds walk away on the same high street. That Gurdwara is known as the 'jatt' gurdwara only because the very small cominity of tarkhans in Southampton and the enlightended members of the bhatra sangat that don't belive that their wives and daughters should be veiled, also go to the singh sabha gurdwara. The Gurdwara is, though, still overwhelmingly jatt in sangat and committee terms. You can't turn dinosaurs into german shepherds. The two are from different eras. This week, ten thousand of us could come down the M3 and join you in your struggle. It would mean sweet fanny adams. It would just be another dudley with negative media results. Your struggle brother, is the struggle that all Sikhs in the world face against the pathetic older generation. Your Gurdwara committee, like most gurdwara committees is made up of men with money. They get elected because they have money. Our sangat don't elect them because they are given money by those men with money but because our sangat respect our men with money more than anything else. let me give you an example : Am I right in assuming that the man in the top position of the 'other' Gurdwara in Southampton is the man that was recently seen on Sangat TV and the Sikh Channel handing over vast amounts of cash to the families of Jaspal Singh and Ranjit Singh in Gudaspur ? Am I right in my knowledge that he was the first man arrested in the very famous recent murder case of the sikh woman beating her mum in law to death with a belna ? Am I right in my knowledge that he is known in Southampton to be keeping several of the local divorcees from Punjab as his concubines ? Look....I have a nasty habit of going about things in a round-about way. I can't help it. I love using words. The fact is that your problem is the same problem we all face. We're all dealing with a wider Sikh community that elect people they respect and the only reason they respect them is because they have money. I think when we can change this way of thinking we will change the way Gurdwara committees act. As a relatively poor man (actually not even 'relatively'......I genuinely am quite poor) I think it should be a rule that only poor men that don;t serve the dollar and pound as god can get on the gurdwara committee. Then and only then will your problem go away.

We've seen far more than you. We've even looked in a mirror and seen ourselves in these new immigrants. They are us but for a simple twist of fate. But for a simple of twist of fate we too would have been born in rural Punjab. For all of us it was a split second decision by our forefathers that determined whether we would be the 5% that were lucky to be born in the west or whether we would be with the 95% struggling in the cesspit that is India. Praise Waheguru for each and every second he has blessed you with the priveiege of living as a free Sikh in the western world. Everything you, Kaljugi, Dal Singh et al have said in the last few messages is exactly the same as what was said by British MP's in parliament about your father or grandfather. They, back then, wanted it so that your father or grandfather never existed. To do that they said terrible things that implied how how dirty and bad yours and mine grandparents were. The Parliamentary records show how the lawmakers said our grandparents were only here to prey upon, use upon and lust upon white englishwomen. Some lawmakers said our grandparents were not fit to live in the UK. Some said our grandparents we here only to rob and steal. Some said they were drug addicts determined to make the UK addicted to drugs. While our grandparents were here there were a total of 11 anti-discrimination bills proposed in Parliament. 99.99 % of those never saw the light of day because 99.99 of Parliament echoed the feelings of 99,99% of the British public in that our grandfathers were womaniser lazy uneducated charlatans. Now.....I'm sure there are many Ramgharia UK Sikhs reading this and thinking well, none of this applies to me because I was welcomed as a British passport holder. To them I say this : You were given no welcome mat either bruvs. Roy Jenkins is the man largely credited by the history books of introducing anti-racism discrimination in the UK for the first time ever after visiting America as the Home Secretary and seeing the Civil Rights Act in action. What the history books don't tell you though but what is revealed the official diaries of the then Parliamentary secretary Richard Crossman is how Roy Jenkins re-called Parliament for an emergency midnight session after it was learned that the Africanization policies of Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania would mean that a hundred thousand 'Indians' with British passports would soon be landing at Heathrow Airport. Richard Crossmans's diaries reveal how Jenkins said Parliament must find a way to stop them coming at all costs. In the ensuing debate in parliament it was stated that these Asians from east africa had not yet learned to master the toilet yet alone British values. We're back to that mirror I mentioned earlier. Look in the mirror and see how you have become those very same racist, bigoted and hateful dinosaurs that sought to keep your parents out. Have a long hard think about that and then look in the mirror again with a clear mind. This time in the mirror you'll see our newly arrived brothers and sisters as yourselves. Respect yourself. Honour thyself.

" went to learn black magic" says the report. ' went to meet up with a man she met on a dating site' says the report. My heart bleeds for the suffering of mum and dad. Good on dad for travelling to pakistan to try and uncover the truth. But dad. What did you expect ? Having raised a daughter that travels half way around the world to meet strange men she met on a dating site and learn 'black magic' isn't it time, dad, you and mum took a long hard look at yourselves and your worship of money ?

^ Above. Only waheguru himself knows what is going on above. My heart bleeds for my brother and sisters. No fancy sad faces or emotions. None are needed here. This is not the time for cartoon emotions. Before the 'Sikhs' in the messages said the rubbish they said and lived their lives accordingly Sikhs were known not to be beggars. And yet here we are, with Sikhs being the largest homeless community on the premier city of Waheguru's earth for the first time ever. London...the greatest city on earth. Sikhs being the most homeless and drug addicted in the greatest city on earth. And yet there they (the British Sikhs) are, congratulating each other and making vulgar jokes and making vulgar excuses with each other at the poor Sikh's expense. I truly pity the poor immigrant that has to blend in with the above. If Kaljug is an upside down world than an upiside down world we have today in the UK Sikh community. We have sons and daughters of men and women that came by false pretences and were met with bigotry and hatefulness......showing the same bigotry and hatefulness 25 years later. I wish there where a 'cartoon emotive' in the tab of emotives above to show just how sad I am. There is not. There are smiiley faces and there are round sad things hitting themselves with a hammer. None of these are enough to describe the established British Sikh Community. The history books have been re-written. 'Sikh Communities' have, for the last century or so been established in bangkok, New Zealand, canada, California and China. The history books and the guide books tell it. The books also tell how that diaspora has never begged.....how Sikhs are never beggars. Now look at the posters above. Look at how they gloat, laugh and congratulate themselves. If ever I needed to know what artificial emotion to use.....it is now. The history books and the guide books have been re-written. Sikhs, in the greatest city on earth...the most homeless, the most drug-addicted and the most beggar. Sikh Hstory will never forget how the posters above saw it as a time to display their jokes and ignorance. Kaljugi ? This is where I get banned from 'Sikh' forums and then banned and then banned again. Its where the likes of Dal Singh are seen as the good guys and the likes of Neosingh are exposed as being impotent. I pity the poor immigrant today.

Not knowing things is not a crime. Nobody can know everything. Refusing to learn, however, is a terrible crime. Shooting the messenger is a terrible shame. Go to downtown Vancouver. It is the biggest open air shooting (Heroin and Meth) gallery in the western world. Vancouver's drug problem is a thousand times worse than ours and it's Punjabis suffer from it a thousand times more than us. But...surprise surprise its us the whinging British Sikhs that keep crying. Thats all we're good for. Crying, complaining and blaming. We're so miserable its unbelievable. Go to Vancouver. Its got a dirt poor homeless problem that makes London look like heaven. Their problem is a thousand times worse than ours. But do you think the Canadian Sikhs would sit back and allow things to get so desperate that it were Sikhs who were Canada's homeless ? We, the British Sikhs should be ashamed of ourselves. We live in a city with relatively very few homeless and yet we've allowed our brothers and sisters to become so desperate that Sikhs are London's largest homeless community. Shame on us. Go to Toronto. There are 3 large Jamaican expatriate centres in the world : London, New York and Toronto. Of the 3 cities it is Toronto that is suffering horrendous levels of related crime and murder. Its on a level that makes London look like a peaceful village. But do you see our Canadian brothers and sisters crying about it ? They don't even though they share those actual neighbourhoods with the Jamaicans (Rexdale and Mississauga). We whinging pom British Sikhs don't ever stop crying and complaining. Thats all we're good for. Woolgoolga ? I mention Australian Sikhs and you talk about Woolgoolga ? Have you ever been to Woolgoolga ? Let me tell you about it. It houses the old community. You can spend the day meeting every Sikh in the town and you will struggle to meet more than a handful of immigrants. The 'immigrants' that this discussion is about are in Melbourne and Sydney. Sydney itself is experiencing at the moment a level of Islamic fundamentalism among its 2nd and 3rd generation Aussie born Arabs that we in England experienced a decade ago. It is huge. Toronto, also, has a Muslim population far bigger than its Sikh population. Pakistanis, Arabs, Somalians etc. They're all there in massive numbers. How many times do you hear Canadian Sikhs crying about it though ? No, its always us the whinging poms that do that. We never stop. I have close family in California, Italy and Canada. Similar Sikhs from similar families and similar areas go there as come here. Its too easy to blame the immigrant. Sometimes one needs to look alot closer to home to find where the blame should lie. Everywhere else the Sikh community and the Sikh family helps the newly arrived to settle in. They still have community. They still have bridarari. These new immigrants to England also have extended settled family members in the UK. But we the British Sikhs have become cold people. Cold hearted. Not only do we not help the new to settle we actually ignore them and pretend that they don't even exist. There are immigrants from all over the world that come to London. Most of them come from poorer areas than Punjab.....more uneducated than Punjabis. They have come in bigger numbers than the Punjabis. There is a reason why its just the Punjabi Sikhs that have ended up destitute on the streets. Here you are blaming them and the labour situation in the UK and yet you ignore that all those other groups don't end up on the streets. Why is it that most of the illegals that came in the back of a lorry from Calais were Kurds, Iraqis and Africans and yet it is only the small number that were Sikhs that ended up on the streets begging for money ? The reason is because of us. We, the British Sikh community have failed them. It is a crying shame the way we have failed them. We are, however, so utterly shameless that after we fail them we then go on to blame them. Crying, whinging, complaining, blaming. Thats all us British Sikhs are good for.

I am in no mood right now to reason with you too much. Suffice to say there is a hidden Britain right now that clearly not too many know much about. You obviously know about the rights of the man and woman in a job with a contract with the employer itself. But that, my friend, not only only tells half the story it is also the story of our parents generation. Hrd working jobs but with some rights. And so welcome to the life of the manual agency worker in Britain today. The work that 'respectable' employers give to agencies because if they asked their own workers to work under the same conditions and pay it would take them back to the Dickensian workhouses. Trust me bruvs when I tell you how bad things are. On your other point : I have no right whatsoever to impose my own family circumstances upon yours. That is not my intention. But, when I tell you that my family were among the pioneers that came at the end of WW1 and settled in what was then the UK's largest Sikh community in the east end and then, after permanently moving to Southall after the general at the Wolf rubber factory was so keen on recruiting Sikhs like who had served with him in the army, my family brought in others under false pretences. My grandfather himself told me this and 100% of the pioneers thus far have verified it : After there started to become a fairly large non-white community in the east end of London ( the Bhatra Sikhs....from 1920 onwards) , the British govt asked the Nehru govt to 'stop' the Punjabis 'pouring in'. Nehru obliged....in a roundabout way....by moving, in 1951, the Indian passport office from Delhi to Bombay. The whole thing was designed to make it too difficult for rural Sikhs to get passports. 50% of Sikhs then travelled to Bombay but the other half (perhaps more) , like my grandad and most of the other bajurgs I had talked to, travelled in to Pakistan and obtained Pakistani passports before boarding a ship to England. Have you been to canada ? They have a drug problem 20 times worse than ours. They have working class no good alcohilics 20 times worse than ours. They have public heroin shooters that make Amsterdam look like Disneyland. They have Jamaican gang violence in Toronto that makes ours look like a kids cartoon. They have more muslims living among Sikhs than we do here in London. There is a reason why all Australians vall us whinging poms. We have a habit of whinging. We whinge. We complain all the bloody time. California......Italy......Canada......Australia. See these places get more uneducated rural Sikh Punjabi men and women than we ever get. Do you think our Canadian, Californian, Italian and Australian brothers and sisters would ever get so neglectful that they would let our newly arrived Sikhs become the poorest of all in the land ? Th roughehest sleepers in the land ? The most homeless in the land ? The hungriest in the land ? Someone a few messages ago (it may have been you) made a joke about new immigrants from Punjab prostituting themselves on the street. It was a joke I know but have you ever driven through here in Southall after midnight ? There are our newly arrived sisters out on the Broadway at night doing just that. Do you think the Californian Sikh community would have allowed things to get so desperate ? Do you think the Italian Sikhs would have loved their money so much that they could tolerate it ? Like I said.........The problem is us. We are nothing but whinging poms. We, the established Sikh community are too stupid to realist that other nations and other cities have the same problems worse than us........but still remain chardi kala and help. The problem is us. We are too miserable and too self critical to do anything positive for the new arrivals. The only alternative is to blame the new arrivals.

Oh but I do more than you can ever possibly imagine bruvs. I trace enemies.....I chase enemies......I hound enemies......I make contact with my enemies enemies.....I tell others about what my enemies have done. I make sure my use of the keyboard is a constant thorn in the side of my enemy. If however, I left my home, family and job, and decided to wander the streets of Delhi as a warrior. If I constantly told people that my warrior lifestyle and use of intoxicant was as an insurance policy just in case....just on the off-chance...that I may be called to protect my community and places of worship. On the billion to one chance that that day came....I would be ready. Then I would expect you to ask me what I've done. Well guess what ? On the 31st October 1984 that day actually came. On any given day you will find thousands of nuhungs wandering the streets of Delhi playing the part of a warrior......playing the part of a man taking drugs because he is ready to give his life. The day came, but he neither acted the part he said he was rehearsing for nor gave his life. One would have thought, given their wild claims, that each of them would have, with their mastery of swords, been able to cut into pieces dozens of skinny biharis armed with sticks and stones. You have thought he would have been able to single-handedly protect the honour of thousands of Sikh women. The day of pretend nihungs pretending to be warriors are over. Sikh society sees them as losers because thats exactly what they are. Cowardly, lazy drop-outs, afraid of doing a hard days work, still trying to impress impressionable youngsters with false accounts of imaginary bravery. .

Whats your parents generation got to do with it ? You might be working like a girl in an office but most of us Punjabi Sikhs are not only not but we are working in conditions far worse than what your parents generation had to go through. To pay for my education and research I work manual jobs through temp agencies for minimun wage. It would be an understatement if I desribed these jobs as back-breaking. They are really really hard manual jobs. In your parents generation the unions would not have allowed such conditions to exist for a worker and if they did, they would be suitably compensated in money. Whilst the majority of the people I tend to work with are eastern-european there are also a fair number of Sikhs from Punjab. They work harder today than they ever did in any previous generation. Go to Canada. Look at the recent immigrants from Punjab there. These people are without a doubt the hardest workers in the world today. They're famous for it. They work far harder today than they did in your parents generation. In Punjab also. Whilst acknowledging how drugs and ourselves (the way we have teased them with our big party receptions etc) have had a negative effect, things are not as bad as we sometimes like to suggest. Generally, the farmer's children are working at the same level of hardness as they did in previous generations. The only thing different now is that the sons and daughters of the chamars have stopped working for the jatt farmer. In my grandparents and parents generation it was the chamar and chamari that came and did most of the work. They no longer do so and so the farmer gets the bihari to do it instead. Things ain't that much different to how they were before. Without realising it, we've become those moaning old men and women we used to laugh about on TV. The kind that think everything about today is bad and how everything yesteryear was so much better. The only thing thats changed.....for the worse...is us. For those of you who, like me, had your family come over in the 1950's. Like me, it was likely your family came over illegally by assuming a false pakistani passport and sailing from Karachi. For those of you who had family come over after the introduction of controls in the early 1960's it is likely your family came over illegaly by someone in your family falsely assuming the positions of son/daughter/ wife of someone else. Nothing has changed. The only thing that has changed is the class of Punjabi that the new immigrant meets in England. The level of humanity. Our grandparents and parents were met with a community of Sikhs that went out of their way to help their fellow man. Unfortunately for the current lot of immigrants, they are met with us : The most miserable, self-centered, self-loathing bunch of complainers the world has ever witnessed. A community never happy unless we put the next man down. I pity the Sikh immigrant that comes here to England. Not because they can't make it in England but because they have to meet us. They'll look around them and see settled Poles helping new arrivals from Poland into work. They'll see Pakistanis helping new arrivals from Pakistan into the shop trade. They'll see settled Bangladeshis helping new arrivals from Bangladesh into the restaurant trade. They'll see settled Afghan Sikhs using their bridarari system to settle the next man up in his own shop, who will then himself have a duty to set the next one up. Then they'll see their own turn their noses up at them. They'll be raided each and every day by the Border Force led by teams of their own people. They will be treated like rubbish by their own people. There is nothing wrong with either England or the new arrivals from Punjab. There is everything in the world wrong with us , the established British Sikh community. We, and our attitude, is a disgrace.

"Where were you Steve" ? It was life and death. Dave, Pete, Amy and Suzie had been smoking the weed and had got the munchies serious style. How serious ? BC Bud stylee. Amsterdam...Moroccon...Lebanese. These are all 50p when there is another worth £27.50. So in the land of £27.50 were these great warriors. 99.99% of them were not warrior enough to get invoved. But the 0.0001% were oh so great warriors. Oh so great they were. They were such great warriors that they killed in parked cars in great numbers when it would've been far more useful not do.......they killed in drive-bys when it would've been better to let a kid be a kid.....and they died when another with half an education would have thought it better to perhaps stay alive. So who thinks these idiots are warriors ? 16 and 17 year olds in Bramptom and Surrey that don't know the meaning of right from wrong. 20, 30, 40 and 50 year old romantics that don't know sweet fanny adams. Oh but we are just oh so weak and ignorant of the sword Punjab dwellers. Thank god we have these nihung. Thank god they are never in rural Punjab but always travelling around the cities of India protecting us, mostly in Delhi. Oh they are ever so tough and strong. God forbid we will ever need to call upon the very thing they travel around saying they exist for. :wow: 1984. Where were these great warriors ? Punjab said they were criminals, drug-addicts and lazy layabouts, and because they were nowhere to be seen in Punjab they were all roaming around in Delhi pretending to act like warriors whilst taking their drugs. 1984 Sikh women and tiny babies were being raped and cut into pieces in their thousands in one night. Where were you that now assume the flag above your heads ?

Oh but I am being sarcastic towards you paaji. The Khatris, Aroras and Kamobj Sikhs were shouting 'Chak de phatte' 800 years before us jatts because we jatts were still in Sindh on the borders of Baluchistan before we had even heard of something called Punjab let alone stepped afoot on it. Like I said....without being sarcastic...the ancient warrior Punjab farmer is THEIR history. NOT ours. Ours is the literary and classic literary history of Punjab. How much respect would you have for a man that wanted to anihilate any mention of everything mentioned by Shakespeare ? Bobby Friction wants to anahilite everything mentioned by someone more influential than Shakespeare on a language more ancient than English......900 years more ancient than Hindi........Important because it is the only tonal language in the Indian sub-continent.........One of the most ancient languages in the world. My point here is directed to the likes of Dal Singh who has the intellectual capability to understand what I'm saying. Bobby Friction has his heart in the right place. But his brain is a hundred miles away. Moral of the story ? The internet is full of articles of how the Punjabi language is on the list of the world's dying languages. And here we are celebrating how an ill-informed, uneducated, well-paid bufoon of the BBC is being paid to contribute towards it's destruction ? :wow:

NO !!!!!!! :angry2: I disagree most strongly with everything said in the last few messages above. Grow up my brothers. Don't you see how the likes of Dal Singh are educated brothers who know Punjabi culture as much as you do ? Alexander the Great sees the Punjabi farmer farming the field and he sends his famous letter home to his mother in Greece about it. Do you think it was about us Jatts ? :wow: No !. At that time, although all of the khatris, aroras and kambojs were Punjabis we Jatts were still nomads in Sindh who had never even heard of Punjab. Thus this ancient warrior Punjab is theirs.........not ours. When the whole of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh has started saying ' Chake de' do you think it belongs to us jatts ? No !! Since the beginning of the Persian wheel the khatri and other farmers in Punjab have been shouting in their Punjabi voices to their fellow farm workers in their neighbouring field to pick up the plank of wood and let the water flow in our irrigation system. The likes of Bobby Friction and Dal Singh know these things. One didn't become clever and the other didn;t become rich by knowing nothing. They know the farming movements and they also know that the current bhangra movements have everything to do with Amitabh Bachan and Sharukh Khan of Bolllywood and very little to do with the genuine bhangra movements practiced by Khatri, Tarkhan, Chamar and Jatt alike in days gone by. If you wanna see the genuine Jatt farming movements to bhangra than see how the old timers do their slow motion stylee movents in wedding videos. Those, what you see as our jatt farming body movements, are the traditional movements that the mirasis did to try and please us. The 'bhangra' of today is nothing but what our unpadh brethren of today have learn't from Bollywood. Days gone by. This is what this is about. This is about about the virsa of Punjab. We have, as a DJ on the most listened to broadcaster in the world: The BBC.....a DJ that is paid well with the understanding that he knows the virsa of Punjab, but in actual fact knows less than my youngest, who is 4. My youngest, who is 4, knows that the relevance of the Shakespeare and language and he shouldn't play games with the English language. Presumable Bobby Friction does too. But Bobby Friction has a brain far less advanced than my son. Bobby Friction is a 30 year old son of a sikh born in west London. My son is a 4 year old born in west london. My son understands the TALIBAN significance of banning the classics that defined the literary and intellectual glory of Punjabi music. Result ? My baby son, barely out his nappes = man Bobby Friction = boy barely out of his nappies but drawing a grown man's wage. Conclusion ? Why has the BBC got in charge of the folk history of one of the world's most ancient languages....a man with less knowledge about it than a 4 year old just out of his nappies ? Chamars start singing silly songs about how great it is being a chamar ? Yes of course ban it. Because it's silly and has no cultural significance. Tarkhans, for no reason other than 'caste' start singing silly songs about how great it is being a tarkhan ? Yes of course ban it. Because it's silly and has no cultural significance Bhatras, start singing silly songs about how great it is being a bhatra ? Yes of course ban it. Because it's silly and has no cultural significance. But how can you justify banning, killing and hiding any mention of Shakespeare ? The jatt mentionings are an integral part of the Punjabi maa boli because of their literary significance. If they are not Taliban who burn books than what are they who burn books ?

I haven't given any advice to the sister because I frankly have no right to do so. As a man, it was relatively easy for me to get an 'arranged marriage' because it was not me that had to leave my loving family and live in a strange house with strangers. Honestly, hand on my heart, if I were a girl I don't think I could do it. Our sisters are put in a very very difficult position. Acknowledging though, that the sister would appreciate some advice, my advice is that she tries to meet a Singh herself from the Gurdwara activities....either the simran activities or gatka classes or Punjabi classes etc. Meet a Singh that way and get to know each other and each other's family that way. My feeling is that she perhaps feels that is like dating or having a boyfriend and as a 'traditionallst' she may either feel that is wrong or may feel that her mum would disapprove. I can assure her that is not the case. I'm sure her mother would be overwhelmed with happiness at seeing her gursikh daughter find a good gursikh husband.

Every story comes from somewhere else Dal Singh. Even the story behind Jesus is copied word for word from the story behind the Iranian pre-Islamic god Mithras. Lets take your own 'Heer Ranjha' example : Waris Shah made his story about 2 tribes of Jatts not because he was a Jatt (because he was not one) nor because he liked jatts (because he didn't). He actually made the story about jatts because the rise of the jatts at that time in Punjab was something that was quite perplexing for Punjabi society. To write about them...to sing about them...became vogue because the literary Punjabi classes became fascinated at how these uneducated, uncouth barbarian jatts were rising to power. So, the facts that both you and Mr Friction need to appreciate are these : NONE of the epic and classical Punjabi stories about jatts have been written by jatts themselves. NONE of the all-time great Punjabi songs about jatts have been sung by any jatts themselves. For example, Kuldip Manak = Mirasi, Surinder Shinda = Tarkhan, Ranjit Kaur = Tarkhan, Yamla Jatt = Chamar, Chamkila = chamar , Miss Pooja = Tonk, Alam Lohar = Lohar, etc etc. EVERY single song sung about other 'castes', for example chamars, tarkhans , bhatras etc, are sung by members of those particular communities themselves. Thus, one has history, culture and literary tradition behind it and the other is based on nothing more than self-promotion of caste. Do you see now which Mr Friction should be banning ?

Being 'muslims' has nothing to do with it. It is an essential part of our literary Punjabi history in much the same way that Shakespeare is to the English language. Only an 'English Taliban' would wish to ban some references from Shakespeare simply because they didn't like the modern dirty usages of those words. Bhangra is, in essence, Punjabi folk. Punjabi folk is nothing if not ballads of the epics. Thus, how can a song about 'Heer', which in itself becomes a metaphor for a girl in love, not mention the fact that she is Jatti Heer, when the story itself not only makes a big deal of it but it is an essential part of her character ? How can a song about 'Ranjha', which itself has become a metaphor for a male Punjabi in love, not mention the fact that he is a jatt when the story itself not only makes a big deal of it but it is an essential part of his character ? Mirza ? Jagga ? Dhulla Bhatti ? The list is endless. The point is that bhangra, as Punjabi folk music, has its roots and essence in the punjabi classics. Unless we can invent a time machine , go back 500 years, and force the authors at gunpoint to make their stories about chamars, tarkhans and bhatras we are in denial of our own history. This thinking is exactly the same as the Taliban.

I doubt they're singing gurbani kirtan. I've seen these kinda 'musicians' before as they've become a quite common sight at wedding pre-dinner receptions these days. Basically they play that ravi shankar stylee indian classical stuff. The kind that would normally put me off my dinner.

I've just had a look at the photo of the tabla playing Singhs. Having seen the foto I'm more concerned about the welfare of those tabla playing Singhs. They've been given a pathetically tight little corner barely big enough for a mouse and his family. It seems they had grand ideas of being high class but didn't have the foresight to make a stage or something for the music. The 'high class dining' thing is clearly just an illusion as they're menu also contains such cordon bleu culinary delights as 'popcorn chicken' kfc style. :wow:

Too many things about this new channel are confusing me. For one, why, last week, they officially changed their name at Companies House from Akal TV to Sikh TV ? Secondly, who is going to fund it ? Thirdly, has Mr Kooner from the sofa factory a track record of criticising India or supporting it ? Fourthly, does the fact that it will be the official channel of the SGPC and the fact that Badal controls the SGPC mean that it is designed to break up the Sikh rights agenda built up by the Sikh Channel and Sangat TV ? Fact is, there are 2 Sikh channels in the UK both of whom are begging for money to survive on a month by month basis. Unless this new channel is gonna be funded by anti-sikh rights elements in both Delhi and the Punjab government, I don't understand why a legitimate businessman would see it as a 'gap in the market'.