luckysingh99

Your Focus or dhian should be on HIM- On the EK waheguru. Not on anything else. I'm not sure what you don't understand about putting your dhian on ?? Everyone has their own method of practicing. Personally, I think it's easier to first 'blank' and empty your mind completely. Do this by focusing on the 'Nothingness' This 'nothingness' will then become the everything.-the HIM, as he is ALL. Then your focus will be on nothing else but the true lord by whatever name or gurmantar you use. The idea is to keep and maintain this dhian on him, whilst your body will respond with changes of sensation as time goes on, but you should try to feel 'detached' from your sareer or thann. You can use breathing techniques or mala..etc.. if it helps you focus your dhian- as that doesn't matter as long as you get to that state.

Sensiblility is the key to this discipline. If one lives in an area where there is only one store that they can get their sabzi and fruit from, then they buy from there -simple. The issue is about the cooking, we know with hygiene everything is washed physically before cooking. This is where the real play comes in.

The above confirms where your dhian should be !! By doing some sukhmani and focusing on the dot is NOT gurmat. By putting all your focus in the paath or naam simran is the real focus. We get many distractions, visions, sounds, feelings of sensation over the body at different stages of simran/meditation. All of these should not let us take our main focus off the naam simran. I like to see them as distractions, because that is what they do. It is ALL too easy to lose your dhian off and away from waheguru when confronted with these and vibrations etc... I see them as 'tests' on your dhian from waheguru. The best way to acknowledge them is to just reassure yourself that you are doing naam simran correctly, because alot of the time people are unsure if they are doing it properly!

I post to learn and not to praise or otherwise!

If I knew why, then I would have said !! :blink2: :excited: I look forward to the presents under the tree!!! :excited:

This topic has already been started before and that thread is locked!!! So why start it again ? Is this how the forum should work ???

Are they no bhatras on here that can say I am wrong about their acceptance of alcohol, eggs and meat ???

If you don't like christmas trees, then don't have them. If they don't bother you, but you find them a part of this holiday season, then carry on. I don't think that christmas or a tree can actually make any person MORE or LESS a sikh in any way. If you feel that it has affected someone and made them walk away from the path of sikhi, then say so. This seems like a a very petty argument with two sides trying to justify. The fact is that if we are here in the west, then this time of the year is 'holiday' because of the festive season. If we are so anti-christmas, then we have no right to be off work and enjoying time with family do we ?? In a country where our mother tongue is not so, we shouldn't mock their cultures or way of living. If it really annoys us and messes with our faithand spirituality, then we should shut up and go back to Punjab!!!

I'm surprised that the very keen 'unbreakable', has not respondedto my detailed post above ? I would much appreciate a correction or if unbreakable may find a fault in what I said ?

Of course this is what any logical and sensible person should do. Too many youngsters rush into it thinking it will all change and happen like magic!! Far from it.!!! When you become a khalsa, you become a member of this brotherhood that involves discipline on your behalf. No one in tha army signs up to be a commando without doing any training before hand do they ? So why get initiated with amrit without any preparation ?? Amrit Vela is a 'core' discipline and to get the benefit and anand it should be done at the appropriate times which are 2am to 6am. The 'code' of khalsa conduct should NOT be broken or changed to utilise your lifestyle. So, if you are trying to squeeze in nitnem and doing what should be done at the 'ambrosial or heavenly' hour, just before you get ready to earn your bucks, then you are not practicing accordingly. Yes, Gurpreet ji, I personally don't think you should put your personal lifestyle and work first, once you have taken amrit!

I can't see anywhere or anyhow, this person is helping to trap girls with muslims!!! It just sounds like some of our younger sikh brothers are being overprotective, but this person is married to muslim and is therefore a muslim. She has disowned sikhism, so why are we chasing her ??

Good question. In theory sikhism is actually Panentheistic and not pantheistic. While pantheism means all things are identical to God, panentheism means God is in all things, neither identical to, nor totally separate from all things...ie, Has no limitations as per mool mantar. Have a read of this from the 'new world encyclopedia' http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/God#Sikhism Sikhism Sikhism arose in the Punjab region of north-western India during the 15th century C.E. This vibrant religion embodied a theology of monotheism, asserting that God is essentially One (Ek Onkar). Numerous passages within the Guru Granth Sahib (the Sikh holy book) reiterate the importance of this idea, including the very first stanza, known as the Mool Mantra. It reads: "One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth (...) Self-Existent." The Sikhs reject any division of God, including the notion that God can produce avatars or human incarnations. Generally, God is described by Sikhs as the creator of the universe, singular, supreme, timeless, omnipresent, and perfectly moral. Sikhs claim that God's very essence is unchanging Truth (Sat Namm). In addition, God is also described in seemingly anthropomorphic terms, such as in the aforementioned Mool Mantra, which describes God as "Creative Being Personified." Although Sikhs, like Muslims, bestow many names upon God in order to describe His various traits, they most commonly refer to God as Wahiguru. Sikhism also features elements of pantheism or panentheism. Stories attributed to Guru Nanak suggest that he believed god to be everywhere in the physical world as in pantheism. Similarly, the Sikh tradition typically describes God as the preservative force within the physical world, present in all material forms. Each of these worldly forms was created as a manifestation of God. These ideas, taken together with the prevalent Sikh belief that God is the transcendent creator who exists independent of the world, could be interpreted to suggest that Sikhism is panentheistic. Interestingly there is also something called 'COSMOTHEISM' which in theory is more closer to sikhism since it asserts that God is above the cosmos, again the mool mantar and gurbani enforces this quite well. This is a little different because in other cases God can be expressed as a 'principle' or concept, but Gurbani pushes that he is above and beyond the cosmos and not some concept or principle. The real problem with 'Cosmotheism' in practice rather than theory is that it seems to belong to a group or cult of white new age travellers, a little like the hippies that Yogi Bahajan converted to sikhs. Their beliefs and theory are all based on a universal God very similar to sikhism. Therefore, bottom line conclusion is that Sikhism is Panentheistic.

I think you can see from my previous post how I have done a U-turn overnight on this topic of discussion. I tried to explain my reasoning and was hoping Sherdil ji would understand from this. I don't think that he was mocking amrit in any way, but he was making a very valid and honest point. Although my stance was the same as his, I have now realised and learnt the true meaning of bibek rehit and the need for this discipline. I hope that my explanation can inspire others to understand this a little better. The whole point of discussion is to LEARN and that is exactly what I did !! - Learnt- LEARNING IS WHAT SIKHI IS ABOUT. Sensible discussion and explaining is what is required to help each other and I thank Only Five's contribution that made me see this rehit in a slightly different light. There is no need to be aggressive and dismissive towards others, even if we feel they come across as mocking. We should try and explain with a neutral and understanding attitude. Sikhism is NOT about forcing others to learn and accept. Guru Nanak ji NEVER forced what was right or gurmat onto anyone, he simply made them REALISE. That is the approach and attitude that sikhi should be taught and learnt with, as sikhi is about BOTH the teacher and learner. Let's ALL try and learn from this experience, because if my posts or Sherdil's were never posted, then they would NOT have come across as dismissive and I would NOT have learnt what I did !!

Mehtab ji, That is not a nice or gurmat way of expressing yourself. You seem to be saying that if you are not on the amrithdhari boat, then shut up because you won't understand. In all honesty, I'm sure you didn't mean that because I have perceived you as a well respected and sensible member. I am not at all impressed or can learn anything from this style of attitude! Sherdil ji, I did actually agree and understand exactly what you were saying and it is rightfully correct. BUT- 'Only Five's couple of posts made me think and realise some sensible logic behind bibek rehit! For his very neutral and sensible reasoning I have to thank Only Five for helping me realise and learn something Sherdilji, let me explain what I know understand after some inspiration from Only Five. -The way I see it, is that it is a ''Good Discipline' to have and it can help one spiritually providing they don't let 'ego' take over. As average human beings both me and you and everyone else is NOT going to be happy eating food from a kitchen where the cook is cooking the food, smoking with one hand and drinking inbetween. There will be ash flicked everywhere in the kitchen and he will be sampling straight from the utensils used for cooking. We can probably imagine that he won't have washed his hands after the toilet either!!!! Now this is an extreme example, BUT we are NOT going to be happy accepting food cooked from this kitchen are we ? We expect the person to be PHYSICALLY CLEAN whilst cooking. It is ALL Sensible Hygiene. This can help you realise the logical reason behind bibek. Just as above we expect 'PHYSICALLY CLEAN' because we are, then a Guru's Amritdhari being physically and spiritually clean would ALSO expect the cook to be 'SPIRITUALLY CLEAN'. Thus, sensibly it helps because an amritdhari SHOULD be spiritually clean- remember I say 'SHOULD BE' Bearing all this in mind, I now realise that it is infact a GOOD DISCIPLINE to keep because we expect to be associated with purity and cleanliness without any negative influences. Therefore,the person maintaining such rehit has good reasons to, but they are also faced with bigger tests of ego and haumai which they will have to conquer sensibly without judging. IT's NOT EASY like Only Five ji mentioned and that is the beauty of this discipline ! I hope Sherdilji that you can now see what I mean and why I have done a U-turn and don't deny the purpose of this rehit any longer. We can see that internal or SPIRITUAL CLEANLINESS is just as important as outward hygiene and that is the sensible reason for this rehit.

Of course amrit should be given the utmost regard. I don't think that anyone is questioning this but simply questioning the practice of 'judging' and ego. No direspect to anyone, just simple gurmat explanations and reasoning will help others.

I too don't think or agree that this is true gurmat practice. ''Judging'' is NOT gurmat in an regard. The ONLY person you should judge according to Gurmat is YOURSELF. (from my understanding) AND in this aspect you SHOULD JUDGE yourself as THE LOWEST! This is the REAL JUDGE ਨਾਨਕ ਪਰਖੇ ਆਪ ਕਉ ਤਾ ਪਾਰਖੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ Nānak parkẖe āp ka▫o ṯā pārakẖ jāṇ. O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge

Manchester's majority sikh community is the Bhatras, like WLSji has correctly stated above. I lived there for along time and found it difficult to blend in with them deeply. They are very close knit and don't get involved too much with issues. You will find the extremes like groups of them who will bad mouth or look down to singhs with trimmed beards and then you get others that will be serving and cooking eggs/bacon in langar hall (I won't name the gurdwara). To them it is the norm, so when you comment they think you are alien!!!

I used to get real nervous but I would keep some sukha prashad in my pockets and eat it whenever I felt the need. The sweetness of a misherey helps to give a glucose brain boost as well as the power of waheguru. I too agree with WLSji that strange things happen because I passed exams in flying colours that I was sure I failed and vica versa!!! Doing paath even after and having faith even after blanking out still helped me get through.

I don't understand how bibek rehit can make it easier to control 5 vices, when bibek itself is a contributer to 'haumai' and ego.!!

Can someone kindly explain how bibek practice is pure gurmat and that it doesn't fuel haumai in any way ?? I'm being serious!!

''RESCUE REMEDY'' is a very popular bach remedy and it definetly works !! You can buy most of these from large health stores or pharmacies in UK.

We only end up in the celebrations, trees, presents and chocolates ..etc... because it is the western culture and the majority are participating. The reason why trees, cards and gifts end up in sikh homes is because we are joining in a celebration that the majority of the society we live in are all active in. We get to enjoy the holiday along with everyone else. It becomes a chance to visit relatives and friends and express some love and affection to family. I'm quite sure that whilst my kids are young, i'm not going to spoil the fun of their holidays by banning gifts, banning trees, banning cards..etc.. -It does NOT affect my or mt kids attitude towards any religion in any way. We don't have a tree because we believe in it, we simply have it because every kid in school has one to go home to !! At this time of the year they are celebrating the martyrdoom of sahibzadies at Fategarh sahib. The majority of people that live there will take part along with the majorities. This includesw all the christians and other faiths that live there. But none of the sikhs raise any questions over there if there christian neigbhours are joining in or helping to cook some food for the locals ! Then why do we raise questions when it is the other way round over here ? I don't have a problem or any fear of losing my faith by having a christmas tree or by giving presents, and I will happily wish everyone a merry christmas. I think the fear for getting coverted to any other religion is only as strong as it is because of the weakness inside you about your own faith.

Thank you Singhg That was very informative and useful for me. I have only been here from UK for last couple of years and I've not really been to this Gurdwara much as I normally attend one near to where we live. Because of these politics of elections and voting as it is a public gurdwara unlike most of the others here, I have also been inclined to not get too involved because as you know settling in takes a while. However, what I did find surprising was that you may only vote if youare a paid member of the gurdwara! I find this rather unusual because we never had such things back in UK where also the majority are public gurdwaras. Perhaps you could shed some light and explaination on this to help me and others understand a little better.

How can we be asking what mantar is better ??? This is a question that is insulting to sikhism. - It's like asking who is/was the better guru out of the ten !!!! ..........This is ridiculous............

Why is it that when a white guy commits the crime then he is labelled as mentally unstable/ill/ mentally disturbed...etc... and when a coloured guy does it he is labelled as a rebel/extremist...etc..???