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155 injuries, 3 days of torture, shaved beard and turban removed. Over £20? Those "Sikhs" really do live and die with "anakh" up there in Tividale, I must say. Furthermore, why only 3 comments on such a gruesome murder? Strange isn't it? Maybe because it's "Sikh-on-Sikh".... http://www.expressandstar.com/news/crime/2012/11/15/three-found-guilty-over-killing-of-father/

What a shocking, sad and tragic series of events. 150 injuries? Former friends? It's just so unnecessary, criminal and pointless. Thoughts and condelences to the family.

WLS, the report was actually produced by a freelance chap called Bobby Bansal and he undertook the assignment to produce a documentary in Afghanistan after jumping through many hurdles, as you can imagine. The gurdwara was in a dilapidated conditon and was saturated with childen playing all day, because they didn't attend school. The lady who was speaking in the gurdwara (in the first video) is a Sikh MP in Afghanistan. Very thought provoking indeed. I had also stumbled upon the Iranian Sikh video on youtube when seaching about a month ago and I remember thinking at the time that I should post it on here: you've beaten me to it! Over a hundred years ago, the Sikh traders based in Kabul had spread their tentacles throughout what are now known as the central asian republics, then of course, southern Russia. Even as far as Moscow I am told. Money lending was a core speciality but whatever they could trade was fair game, as they were very shrewd businessmen. I'm sure that those in Tehran and Zaheden were probably cousins of the those traders in Kabul who had simply been rather more adventerous and ventured somewhat further. Very little is known about the Iranian Sikhs. I recall reading an article several years ago of a well-written piece of the history of Iranian Sikhs written just after an Indian Foreign Minister had visited Tehran. He has paid his respects at the very gurdwara in the above video (if my memory serves me correctly). I don't know much of Zaheden other than it has the second largest Sikh population in Iran and there is/was a gurdwara there. I think Guru Nanak Dev Ji visited enroute to Mecca and henceforth the gurdwara remains.

Very interesting indeed. I remember a similar venture by the Sikh Channel earlier this year. It's very upsetting to observe that the children didn't attend school due to racism/bullying. The irony is that whilst the Sikhs of Afghanistan have been reduced to a shadow of their former selves in terms of business and prosperity, they remain steadfast and loyal to their Sikh identity.

http://www.sikhnet.com/news/sikh-leader-applies-saint-status Sant Baba Jeet Singh and his followers have asked English courts to intervene in international dispute over ownership of gurdwaras. The Supreme Court in London is now considering whether it should rule on the spiritual status of a sikh leader and examine his claim to be a "holy saint". The highly unusual application made by Sant Baba Jeet Singh Ji Maharaj and his followers would force the courts to intervene in an international religious dispute over the ownership of three gurdwaras, or temples, in the English towns and cities of Bradford, Birmingham and High Wycombe. Jeet Singh was installed as the "Third Holy Saint" and head of the Nirmal Kutia Johal branch of the sikh religion in Punjab in 2002 but his legitimacy has been challenged. Former members of the temples' management committees now control some of the gurdwaras. In May the court of appeal declined to become entangled in the row, warning that judges should not adjudicate on the type of doctrinal matters that preoccupied 19th-century courts. The resolution of [this] issue," Lord Justice Mummery said, "depends on the religious beliefs and practices of sikhs in general and the Nirmal Kutia Sikh institution in particular. "The English courts are not equipped to adjudicate on the issue of succession by reference to religious beliefs and practices, either with or without expert evidence. "If this case were allowed to go to trial the judge would be placed in an invidious position not unlike that of jesting Pilate, who said 'What is truth?' and would not stay for an answer." Despite that setback, followers of Jeet Singh are seeking permission from the Supreme Court to challenge the appeal court ruling that the case was not "justiciable" - able to be tried in court. The Supreme Court confirmed that it was examining legal submissions to assess whether the case was admissible. If it accepts there is an important legal issue at stake there could be a full hearing next year. Jeet Singh's supporters insist there are broader issues, such as whether the rights and powers held by individuals within religious institutions can be enforced in a UK court of law or become worthless. Luke Patel, of Blacks Solicitors, which represents Jeet Singh and his followers, said: "His succession is a factual issue, not a religious issue. The highest court in India has given a judgment to say that his is the true succession. "If the courts decline to look at this it would be saying that they are not interested in the administration of any English charities [with a religious link]. That would be wrong. This could apply to all sorts of other organisations: mosques, synagogues or temples." The application to the Supreme Court is also based on human rights law, arguing that it would amount to discrimination to consider administrative issues in relation to the Church of England but not for minority faiths. If unsuccessful at the Supreme Court, lawyers may petition the European court of human rights in Strasbourg. There are about 500,000 followers of the Nirmal Kutia Johal branch of the Sikh religion globally tens of thousands of them live in the UK.

Whilst I'm sympathetic to what you say, I still feel it is far better to try to get involved. Look at the Israel-Palastinian story over the course of the past 20 years or so. From watching the news, it would appear it is very anti-palastinian in it's views. At cursory glance at the demographics of the BBC Trust (formerly the BBC Board of Governors) and it would appear a dominance of Jewish-sounding names sit on various committess. They tell me that the BBC is supposedly "impartial". Hmmm, I say otherwise! However, I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Regarding the issue of paedophilia, well, after various enquiries, the BBC will re-emerge as a key player. It's too big a institution for it not to. So, one has to be realistic. I for one don't feel it will cease to exist.

Engaging with the media in general (not just the BBC) is always a bilateral process. Sikhs too need to actively engage in jounalism and careers in the media if they are to influence anyone in the BBC. From the BBC's perspective, if they want to aproach a Sikh or Sikh organisation to field thier views on a particular point of view (e.g. Brar), who would they approach? The Network of Sikh Organisations, The Sikh Council UK, the British Sikh Consulatative Forum....? The list goes on. Launching a "campaign" against the BBC as it were, would ridicule the Sikhs as a sort of "protest community, chip on the shoulder type". Getting involved, whether it's presenting, producing, directing on even appearing on a 'Question Time' panel as a participant is a far better approach to begin with. Thereafter, Sikhs should aspire to pursue careers with not just the BBC but other media outlets. For example, if the producer of The Daily Politics, Newsnight or Panorama was a Sikh (I'm aware of the current fiasco but you understand my point), then I'm sure there would be a greater chance of a hard-hitting documentary on Sikh human right's abuses or any other issue. We have to think practically. How many Sikhs are sitting in the BBC Trust, for example? Or how many were governors in the previous system? To have influence, one needs to get 'stuck in' as it were. The status quo is a community fed up of being ignored, who established their own two Sikh channels where they produce documentaries for the benefit of the Sikh audience only. We should be thinking mainstream and not confining ourselves to Sikh/asian/desi media outlets.

Jet is the best. London-Delhi-Amritsar. Only a couple of hours waiting in Delhi usually. 46kg baggage allowance aswell. Try Southall Travel.

I read it and thought it was an additional gurdwara rather then an amalgamation of the current two.

"Right now we are some materialistic, backstabbing, hungry, show off, unsophisticated pendus." Precisely. Nearly everyone I know in West London fits into the above classfication.

This is a fantastic topic. I have closely followed the independence movement north of Hadrian's Wall as well as the charismatic flair of Alex Salmond for quite sometime. He is by far, the most intelligent politican on these Isle's and he has managed to put all three major British political parties in Westminster on the backfoot. Even when one analyses the recent decision of deciding how to construct the referendum question, Salmond managed to successfully negotiate the vote to 16-17 yr olds - the most pro-independence section of the population. The Scots have many similarities with the Sikhs, with military service and seperate Scots regiments to note. Throughout the Empire, it was the Scots who were the most adventerous and it were Scottish regiments that showed the most valour. Similarly with Sikhs. Within India, it is the Sikh regiment and Sikh Light Infantry which are the most decorated with military honours and us Sikhs are by far the most travelled of any indian group. The Scots have a very able, intelligent and "canny" leader. His wit, charisma and charm offensive is enough to thwart even the Paxman's and Humphrey's of the world. Can you imagine the Sikh-equivalent? In 28 years, no so-called Sikh leader has been able to coherantly explain to an editor of a quality broadsheet British newspaper of the notion of 'Sikh nationhood', the reasons for Khalistan, the Sikh identity etc. Why? Because most of them have poor english skills. Even some of the placards on 1984 rally look as if they were put together by a 6 year old at infant school. Nevermind facing an interrogation by Paxman.. Which brings me to the rally/protest march. It's been useless. The Scots have managed to the get the entire world talking of Scottish independence without any such rallies. Political wit, charisma, strong legal and historical framework coupled with the ability to captivate the imagination of most Sikhs is what is required. Instead, what we have is about 1.5 jathebandis supportive of Khalistan, and the rest are monay and no one takes them seriously. Most Sikhs are alientated and believe this isn't for them. We don't have an Alex Salmond.....

WLS, So what exactly is "windows smashed behaviour"? If I know of a clean-shaven Sikh who grew his beard for the wedding day and wore a turban for 2 hours in the morning, would I have the right to smash his windows in? What about the families who will have meat and alcohol in the afternoon after the wedding, would I have the right to smash their windows in? What about caste/biraadari-worshipping so-called Sikh who insists his child will only marry within that biraadari, would I have the right to smash his windows in? Furthermore, when I need to get in touch with the religious police, in order to smash someones windows in, what is their phone number? Or email? One thing is absolutely certain. Double-glazing companies across the UK are going to be awfully busy from today onwards. This may even help the British economy out of a recession. Well, every cloud, silver lining, etc.

smashing windows is wrong, but was is wrong with these tity gurdwara committees and tity sikh families. Just because a hindu has read a wikipedia page about sikhism, some how it is justifiable to break the 38th hukam of the Great King Satguru Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Maharaj, f-kin sikhs Mrsingh12, The sheer paradox of your argument beggers belief. After I pointed out that 9 out of 10 Sikh-Sikh weddings I have attended, (and thats being optimistic) do not satisfy hukam 38, you decide to tell me that as long as "God's Sikhi" is being practised then somehow according to you at least 'half of the hukam' is being followed. Had it not occured to you that hukam 14 states that "do not start married life without anand karaj" and also hukam 47 "life as a keshadhari Sikh"? Therefore, which type of "God's Sikhi" were you refering to? According to hukam 47, a mona wouldn't suffice anyway. The fact is, 9 out of 10 Sikh-Sikh weddings will not satisfy hukam 38 by any stretch of the imagination. I am flabbergasted that it has taken you until 2012 to realise that the 38th hukam is being dishonoured when it has been happening for the past 100 years or so. Even if the hindu has only "read a page on wikipedia about Sikhism", it's still volumes of knowledge when compared to the thugs who smash a window and don't even have the guts to stand outside and say "here I am, I am accountable for my actions" like any honourable Sikh would have done. No, these thick criminal thugs have probably never even read that page on wikipedia on Sikhism themselves. Because if they had, they would have concluded that the pen is mightier than the sword and that rather than run away, all Sikhs are held accountable for their actions, right or wrong.

Smashing windows of an elderly couple? What a bunch of cowards. Criminality at it's finest. There is nothing "warrior-like" about such thuggish behaviour. There should be no 'erms, ifs or buts' - it should be condemmed outright. Regarding the 38th hukam. Why is it that this is only mentioned today, at a Sikh-Hindu wedding? In all of my living memory, 90% of the weddings I have attended would have not satisfied the 38th hukam, and these are Sikh-Sikh weddings. Why? Because the groom was clean-shaven. Even if he was a Sikh, the bottom line is he was a mona. However, a Sikh girl marries a Hindu, and suddenly the 38th hukam has suddenly been brought up! Maybe only amritdhari's should marry in a gurdwara? You can't "have your cake and eat it" as it were.

A very interesting development indeed.

British Kurds have some British parliamentary support to formally recognise the ethnic cleansing of their people by Saddam Hussein as a genocide. They are trying to further increase that very support across a wider political spectrum. Regarding 1984 pograms and subsequent "operations", this is something us Sikhs could learn from. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20110420 Iraqi Kurds in Britain have begun a campaign for the mass murder of their people in Iraq in the late-1980s to be formally recognised as genocide. At least 180,000 Kurds were killed by Saddam Hussein's forces. The justice4genocide campaign says many more died in atrocities carried out by regimes from the 1960s onwards. It is petitioning the UK government to declare the mass killing of Kurds as a genocide and press the European Union and United Nations to do the same. The campaign has the support of a number of British MPs and the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG). The KRG's representative in Britain, Bayan Sami Abdul Rahman, said she hoped the campaign would eventually lead to trials at the international criminal court. Ms Rahman said: "Different people were responsible through different decades, so there are many, many people who have blood on their hands. "Even though Saddam Hussein was charged with genocide he wasn't actually tried for genocide so that's another frustration for survivors." Both Hussein and his cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid - known as Chemical Ali - were put to death. Towards the end of the Iran-Iraq war, they targeted the Kurdish population in the north of Iraq. In the most notorious attack, warplanes dropped chemical bombs on the town of Halabja, killing 5,000 men, women and children. Shaho Qadir was 13 at the time. A bomb blew off both his legs. "It was like a nightmare for me. It was just unbelievable - in one second losing your legs. You can't believe it," he said. Mr Qadir joined justice4genocide to gather signatures for their petition in London, where campaigners read out the names of some of those killed. A spokesperson for the British Foreign Office said: "It is clear that appalling atrocities have been perpetrated against the Iraqi Kurds and other minorities. "We have always condemned those crimes, which caused so much suffering to so many people. "Today, we work closely with all of the people of Iraq to help support a stable, democratic and prosperous country where such atrocities can never happen again."

Finally, a Sikh leader with a backbone. http://www.sikhchic....?cat=26&id=3781 Lord INDARJIT SINGH To Teji Bindra New York, USA 25-10-12 Dear Tejinder ji, Sat Sri Akal Re: Sikh Heritage Arts Gala 2012 I am writing to inform you that I will not be attending the Sikh Arts and Film Festival. When Dr Narinder Singh Kapany informed me that Sikhs in New York wished to honour me for becoming the first turbaned Sikh in the British Parliament, I agreed. I was given to understand that it would be at a function of Sikh Heritage Awards. I now learn from the detailed Programme sent me that it is a Festival of Indian Films with dinner and dance in the presence of dignitaries from and representatives of the Indian government. This festive event coincides with the anniversary of the government planned systematic slaughter and rape of thousands of Sikhs throughout the length and breadth of India following the assassination of Indira Gandhi, commencing with Rajiv Gandhi's broadcast incitement of "khoon ka badla khoon" - "Exact blood for blood". ( An official in Africa recently received a lengthy jail term from the International Criminal Court for lesser incitement). Ever since 1984, I have campaigned tirelessly for those responsible for this genocide against Sikhs to be brought to justice through articles in the Sikh Messenger , the Journal of Amnesty International, articles in the Times, the Guardian and other British, French, American and Arabic journals and in radio and TV broadcasts. My effort and those of many others for the Indian government to respect civilised norms and bring those responsible to justice have simply fallen on deaf ears. In the circumstances, I hope you will understand why on the anniversary of this massacre, I cannot join you with your guests from the Indian government. My apologies for any inconvenience. Kind regards Dr. Indarjit Singh ( Lord Singh of Wimbledon)

What a sad loss. He was great at political satire, always taking a dig at corrupt politicians.

6 metres is about right, not more. It's an individual choice, no hard and fast rule. To ensure you look smart, make sure it's in proportion to the size and shape of your face. I know it may not sound politically correct, but some patiala shahi styles look as if they were tied without the aid of a mirror.

Most jatt's I know have made a career out of mocking those Sikhs who adhere to the teachings of the guru's and maintain a Sikh identity. Not only is the original poster correct, but I fear he doesn't realise how correct he actually is.

So, it would appear the tentacles of RAW have spread to the West End of London. The so-called Sikh leaders and their various organisations have yet to release a statement, 5 days later. The deafening silence of the so-called Sikh Council UK is particularly surprising, given that we were led to believe that SCUK had a media-body attached.

Mehtab Singh and others, These are indeed fantastic points raised. In addition, further to a point made by a previous poster, it would be pertinent if anyone personally knows those arrested to confirm if they are long-term residents of the UK or fresh faces as it were? I think this is important to know.

Just a regular guy, no link to the paper. It's a tongue-in-cheek reference to it.

(1) I followed this story with interest and I am shocked that 4 young men armed with a knife attacked a 78 year old man and didn't inflict further damage than has been mentioned. I find it deeply suspicious that 4 young men could attack an old man so meekly that he was discharged from hospital within 24 hours and will partake in international air travel within 72 hours of the supposed attack. Quite a remarkable recovery, NHS standards must have improved. (2) With a CCTV camera for every 13 people in London, these 4 men will be identified in due course. (3) The sheer lack of clarity of the exact location (Oxford Circus/outside hotel) and the time of the attack (22:40 or 01:00 according to one report), with Scotland Yard conflicting the Indian High Commison is worrying. (4) The absence of security personnel raises eyebrows to say the least. (5) The only witness thus far is his wife. At this stage she isn't even sure if they were Sikh men! In such a tourist hotspot, surely there must have been independent witnesses? Lt Gen Brar has committed an atrocity of seismic proportions. However, unfortunately, I fear that this incident will be used as an opportunity to "quieten down" the British Sikhs with the aim of disabling their political agenda.

He has been charged with assault, not rape. It is important to clarify what actually happened and the circumstances surrounding it. Was it really an isolated case of dragging a Sikh girl into a wooded area and raping her? Were they in a consensual relationship or not? Bf-gf? It sounds terrible, regardless of the circumstances, but I fear that there is more to this than meets the eye...