CHARANDHOOR

Baba Ji have themselves taken notice of people saying they sing kaatchi bani and have explained to the sangat as follows: Dhaarna is not bani therefore it is not kaatchi bani. Dhaarna is a shortcut and simple anaysis of bani for us mooraks to understand and evaluate bani. Even the katha vachak in order to interpret bani explain it in their own words , that too does not make it kaatchi bani. If Baba Ji have decided to sing their message why do we label it as kaatchi bani. At the end of the day history is proof that most saints have sang dhaarna as the soul is able to join in and grasp the message, with the ultimate result we mooraks are able to jurr (bond) with SGGS JI. Surely they must have something we don't and must be right. Veer ji it pains to see that not a day goes by when someone questions the goodness being preached to the sangat. Let us enjoy and be grateful for the blessings of Waheguru to send Baba Ranjit Singh Ji to his sangat. In time these moments will pass so lets just reap the fruits whilst we can.

Radaswami people look like sikhs and some members of a family may be sikhs and others RS. Most do not eat and consume alcohol and think thats what makes them RS. One thing is certain they are not sikhs and should declare themselves as such. Sikhi has no branches and they are not a set belonging to sikhi. They are theives because their main man (swami) has taken a shabad from the SGGS and secretely passes this to the devotees and they are sworne not to pass this information to anyone and if they do they lose the power of the shabad. The guy has stolen gurbani. I say that because a KHALSA wears his 5 kakars openly and speaks his bani openly and has nothing to hide. The only thing one hides is somrthing which is stolen. They attend the Gurdwara but do not matha tek SGGS. They come across as sly people who are hovering to obtain information about naam and which shabad can help to achieve salvation. Sangat Ji naam is not given by some swami guy it is only GIVEN BY THE GURU JI'S 5 PYARA WHEN YOU GIVE YOUR HEAD IN RETURN and the NAAM IS WAHEGURU GURMANTAR AND MOOL MANTAR. KHALSA DO NOT HAVE TO HIDE THE NAAM BESTOWED BY THE GURU.

I have heard that the miripiri acedemy in Amritsar has serious problems. Prior to the school being set up the children of American Sikhs were sent to various Indian schools. However, there were problems involving drugs, pregnancies and abortions and the children were rightly removed and came packing to the States. Yogi Ji decided to set up the Academy to prevent the problems mentioned.However, there are similar problems as before and maybe more serious. I understand that students have access to class A drugs via an Indian supply teacher and that person may be involved in sexual relations with girls and boys. There have been some abortions. My concerns are as follows: 1. Are the teachers aware of this and the sikh Dharma in Espanola ? 2. Is the problem widespread in the school or involves few individuals? 3. The supplier ( a teacher ) has been dismissed on 2 occasions and reinstated. How and Why? 4. What is being done about the problems? I hope that someone will know a current or former student to throw some light on the matters I have raised. They are I hope unfounded and untrue. I am not knocking the principles and the goodness of the school. It has produced excellent graduates such as the Chardi Kala Jatha. I am merely bringing to the attention of the sangat matters of serious concern which have been raised with me and from a reliable source ( ie person who actually spent some time there). Has anyone any reliable information about these issues?

I think it is great you have an inside hungar ( Waheguru telling you to act) to take amrit. You are not young at all. Just rememeber the ages of the 4 sahibsadee ( Guru Ji's 4 beloved sons). You don't say why your parents object? Maybe a relative you are close to or others from your local Gurdwara who also know your parents may be able to talk with your parents. They should be amrit dhari as they will then support your point of view. If at the end of the day your parents continue to object then in my opinion you should do ardas to Guru Ji and committ your yourself to amrit and go ahead. I am sure Guru Ji will guide you all the way and in time your parents will follow the path you are taking. Guru Ji says do not delay matters which are good. There is a katha of a sikh who came to Guru Gobind Singh JI demanding amrit on the day and Guru Ji said wait 3 days. He refused and Guru Ji said Wait 2 Days. He said no Guru Ji I am following what you have taught us DO NOT DELAY DONIG GOOD DEEDS. Guru Ji was so pleased with his sikh and amrit was prepared. May Wahegurus kirpa continue to blossom on you.

Does this not raise the Q that before taking amrit one should be fully prepared and ready with both mind and body. The amrit seals all the saint/warrior qualities and thereafter such doubts or minor desires no longer interfere with the mind. We must remember taking amrit is the first step on the way to sach khand and if one is properly prepared one is likely to progress towards other steps otherwise you may fall off the first step and physically remain there. However, in situations where preparation has not been very solid I am sure WAHEGURU will never let his sikh fall and will continue to guide and encourage him/her forward. Gurbani says NEVER LOOK BACK KEEP MOVING FORWARD AND YOU WILL REACH YOUR REAL HOME.

GURU NANAK DEV JI was NIRANKAR HIMSELF. I cannot recall the exact tuk but there is reference that Avtar came to this jag as Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Guru JI did not have to learn anything they already knew that mankind was not following Gods previous guidance and autonomously guided all on the right and true path.

One of the reasons for parkarma is that it brings you in close infinity to Guru Ji. When one mutha teks its not long enough to do darshan and by doing parkarma an extra few minutes are shared nearer to SGGS JI and also it is respectful. Also when one mutha teks the purpose is to ask for blessing to wash away our bad karma. So we are doning a karma when mutha tekna. When we do PAR KARMA we are asking for higher blessings and by going in a circular motion indicates we are asking for our dirt to be removed attached during the previous life circles. why does the moon circle the earth and theplanets circle the sun? Its creating an energy by flowing in the circular direction. Likewise when we do Parkarma energy is created which bonds us to Guru JI , just like the moon bonds the earth and the planets to the sun. As for starting from the left or right we should follow from the left as that appears to be the long standing practice and one assumes is right. If some when the other way imagine the collisions! and that would become disrespectful.

ms514 GURU Fateh Thank you so much for your reference. I have read chapter 17 and my mind is at ease. I propose to read all the other chapters. I knew that in the Sangat Ji on this site one would provide help. I have always believed that whatever we wish for is granted by the Sangat. HAR PRAHB VASTA SANGAT VICH. GURU FATEH JI

Sangat Ji I have been troubled with the following issues for some time and despite relating these to Granthis, Gianis and other Sikh scholars I have never been able to obtain a proper reply. How much of our daily life do we actually control? Is everything one does pre-destined due to our karam(past deeds), why do we act good/bad? If it due to our past deeds then God has already decided/chosen who is to obtain salvation or not? can we change our karam for the better or worse? Some examples: A thief steals and most of his life is spent in and out of prison. Was it written for him to behave dishonestly and steal? Lets say after a few years this thief had changed for the better and practiced sikhi and had avoided prison. Do we say he chose to stop stealing and took the rightious path or do we say well thats what was written and he changed. Thus it was Gods doing and not his. A murderer/ rapist does horrendous evil acts. Again is it pre-destined/ written he would behave in such a way or does he choose conciously to act that way?The victim dies- was it written he would die in that manner at the hands of the murderer or could his death have been avoided if the murderer chose not to act badly? It is confusing? What guidance is in the SGGS JI , that whilst life is predestined and our actions are the result of karma, can man in this life ALTER what is written. If we argue yes, then we could say but that was written for him to change ,as in the case of the thief. This means we cannot actually alter anything. Therefore, how can we make progress in life?Why not leave it all in Gods hand and what follows will happen? However, if we argue a man can change and alter his life's direction then how are we able to distinguish between what part of our life is due to our past deeds or changes we have made with renewed effort? I would welcome any support on this issues.

From a little island which once ( so they thought ) ruled the world...........UK Now its the KHALSA.

Khalistan has no boundaries and thus no map exists.

In rehat maryada gurmat choola has no place.It is unfortunate that the practice of giving choola has continued. Either Waheguru has made you ready to take amrit or not. Simple as that. I also believe choola is a way out for any amrit dhari who may not have commited the 4 kraata but breached other provisions of the rehat maryada and by taking choola he/she feels the breach is rectified. Sorry, there is no half way house in sikhi for our own convenience. If one has done wrong he should not feel ashamed and once again appear before the panj piara and let them decide? Some may become a little too relaxed in conforming to rehat knowing next year they can partake in choola. Therefore, the practice of choola has to stop.Other family members must build up their hungar for full amrit quickly as possible. There is a deeper meaning as to why amrit is taken and therefore one should not take choola. Very briefly inside us Waheguru has placed so much amrit(internal amrit) that when we are ready we take external amrit and the two must meet for the amrit to be sanchar. An example is within the wood there is fire but it will not light on its own an external spark is required to ignite the fire. An external flame is used to ignite the wood. Similarly the amrit inside us requires amrit from the panj piara. Another example is a man carries seeds of reproduction and so does a women , but they must infuse the two separate seeds for life to commence.When external amrit meets internal amrit then WAH WAH DHAN NIRANKAR. Also when one takes amrit we are supposed to be mentally ready whereas for the choola we would not have the same mental/ spiritual stage. However, the amrit is from the same bata thus it must be wrong to take the choola as the person is not ready.

Panth in sikhism means ' a way (rusta), a direction'. Bhai Sahib Gurdass JI stated that Guru Nanak Dev Ji created a NIRMAL PANTH. Nirmal means a separate, different, pure, humble and truthful. Guru Nanak Dev Ji laid down the foundation for the NIRMAL PANTH and subsequent Gurus added further elements and then Guru Gobind Singh JI fortified this way by making it stronger than steel. Just like a highway is built, first the constructors have to carve out a way/direction for the digging to take place and the foundations of pebbles, stones and top surfaces (tarmac) are placed. Guru Gobind Singh Ji's foundations was the sacrifices of his four beloved sons, instead of the pebbles their bones and bodies were laid and in place of tarmac, their blood was poured to give strength and bondage to the panth. THEY WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN. SADLY WE HAVE NOT LIKED THE WAY CREATED BY GURU JI AND PREFER THE MANMUK WAYS. PLEASE WAHEGURU WE PRAY YOU DIRECT US ON TO THE WAY CREATED BY GURU JI. Finally, the way GURU JI created leads to sach khand.

It is totally abhorrent to beat up anyone let alone your own children.But one needs to put all this in prospective before taking drastic action. Some points to ponder : 1. If we are aware of any violence in a sikh family we must not close our eyes. They Guru Ji's family need our help not just the child. 2. We must approach the relatives and see if the issues can be addressed and discussed within the family. If there is no progress the family should be informed that the sangat ( we should have sub committes in Gurdwaras to deal with such issues) from the the Gurdwara they attend will be coming to their house and if they do not conform they will be spoken to at the Gurdwara( if they attend). That will bring the matter in the public dome and the family would be embarrassed by such action taken by the sangat. 3. The family in need our part of our wider family and the community must deal with these issues and find resolutions. 4. the Gurdwaras must get involved and impose sanctions upon such families and place them on the notice board and announce them in the congregation. The name and shame tactic should work as a positive tool. 5. The sangat chosen by the Gurdwara should monitor the situation and provide continous support. 6. Only if all means fail we should consider reporting matters to social services. The authorities are not there to help sikh families and apply the western ideology to all families and have formulas which would not be practical to a sikh family. Yes they would provide short term cover /protection for the child and may split up families. 7. Long term solutions must be found by our own community. 8. Every situation in a family is very different and there is no one set of rules or formulae that applies equally. A simple adjustment may only be required rather than complicating matters.

Discussing about actions ( right or wrong!) on this forum is not nindya. I think the points are being made so that others may wish to learn from this and express themselves differently. Many on this forum have commented about this matter and that seems fine as everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The couple are not being condemned for their actions, they have their conciousness to please or displease. Like wise we must strive towards making our individual concious state better, pure and higher. That is an individuality and is the first and primary aim. Once we have acheived that we must then act COLLECTIVELY AND GURU JIS MAAT (WAY OF LIFE) EXPRESSED IN THE PROPER WAY. I would have to say the couple are not expressing Guru Ji's maat collectively for the benefit of all, what they are expressing is their individuality and emotions. Remember our parents marriages and other elders, we have moved on from those times. In time the future generations of the couple may well change things for the better. Lets all wish them all the happiness and Wahegurus kirpa.

Thank you. I look forward to seeing the photos. What I have read is excellent and merely wanted to know of any personal experiences. Forgive me if you thought I was knocking the school , I was merely being inquisitive. I wish to know the experiences of students and if positive I believe a similar set up can be organised by the Gurdwaras in the UK and abroad say during the weekends. I suppose an extension of sikhi camps but on a regular basis and in time there could be an exchange programmes between Gurdwaras. Imagine all the sewa the students could incorporate during the weekends and it would keep the existing committees ( interested in chairs!) on their toes as the youth would progress towards contributing to admin. of Gurdwaras. Such weekend programmes would not cost anything to the Gurdwaras and would be run by sewadar students for themselves.

Sangat Ji I have been reading about the Academy in Amritsar and wondered if there are any current students or past graduates who may enlighten us with their experience of life at the Academy?

Thank for the info. Sikhs should boycott sites such as above as they are misleading and not dedicated for the sikhs. If enough people stop using it hopefully the site may naturally die.

I agree with Parminder45. Living example is Baba Ranjit Singh in India, thousands have connected with sikhi through his style of kirtan. He is truly amazing! and when I see the amount of sangat at his divans and number of people taking amrit , the only explanation is Wahegurus kirpa.

What is more important is the gurbani they sing and we listen and adhere to. The persons karam as to the reasons he is singing are not material. His filmy tunes are also irrelevant. During the time of their kirtan one is sitting in the presence of Maharaj SGGS JI and listening to Guru Ji's shabads, if Maharaj is not objecting who are we? If one finds sona in a chiker ( gold in mud), we would take it and wash the mud and would be left with the gold. Like wise the gurbani ( the lords gems) is what matters. Similar situations arise when we take amrit from the panj piara, we don't know about their true jeevan, but at that moment the daat ( lords amrit) given to us is all that matters. We may call them names but think the shabads they sang may have reached some people whose lives turned for the better and brought them near sikhi. I always believe there are many in this kaljug who may have different intentions but unknown to them THE SUPREME WAHEGURU has other ideas and there is always a good by- product of their bad intentions Finally saad sangat ji who are we to criticise and judge others.

A friend of mine last week noticed on sikhchat.com a thread about the muslim kalifa ( i think thats what it is called). It as a nasty article encouraging muslim men to entice sikh girls and to convert them. My friend is called Mohammed Singh and his parnets are now amrit dhari sikhs and their 3 daughters, who are all married and their children are practicing sikhs. Originally the mother was a muslim and upon marriage to the sikh became an amrit dhari. My friend posted a reply objecting firstly that the moderator should not have allowed the article to have been posted and secondly criticising the article.Within minutes of his post the whole thread disappeared. Did anyone else see this post? This was not the first occasion his posts as have been rejected. He believes it is because of his name. I have also noticed many topics placed there relate to muslims boys v sikh girls etc and the theme always is critical of the sikh way of life. The posts are provacative in such a way that one must reply to tackle the issue and thereby introduce critical issues against sikhs. I have wondered who is behind the site that states is dedicated to sikh issues? Does any one know ? Is the site run by sikhs for the sikhs? Any comments?

I do not think it is possible to draw any differences or similarities between sikhism and islam because Gurbani is Nirankar and thus is endless, there is no begining or an end. I believe that if we were to place all other religions together and to discuss them, as sikhs we would start with the Mool Manter and before we would reach the JAP the other pot would be empty. It would take many juugs to merely explain the mool manter. I agree with the some of the previous comments that there is so much to learn in sikhism. I would add that it is essential first to learn and understand one's own belief and then to live a practical life on those understandings. There would be no need to be interested or learn about other faiths for if you have accomplished your own faith you will understand others. We do not need to learn or be interested in islam to discuss issues relating to GOD. If we are paakah (solid) in sikhism we will be able to deal with the issues others raise.

As Bhenji Navdeep says just do swas swas simran as a starting point and with Guru Ji's blessings the rest will follow.

As it was mentioned that meat is served in the lungar I assumed they must have carried out ardas and bhog? At the end of the day we believe that is wrong as well. I did hear that there is a saki whereby meat was part of the lungar during the time of Guru Amar Das Ji. I will try and obtain the saki and post it later.

Has anyone actually witnessed ( actually present) during the ardas that some Gurdwaras serve meat as part of the lungar. Many of the posts above are hearsay and no one appears to actually know. I believe it is easy to raise issues but we should be cautious as we do not wish to offend the sikh community. Unfortunately there are always a very very minority where such an event may have occurred and becomes generalised. I know some members from the community you refer to as Bhatra sikhs, although to me they are just sikhs, and when they established Gurdwaras in the UK ( I am told they were the first sikhs in the Uk to establish Gurdwaras) part of the premises were used to serve meat as was common practice in India. However, as sikhi parchar has increased in latter years they do not cook meat on premises or serve meat in the lungar or otherwise and this change has been brought about by their youth. However, they do have community halls annexed to some Gurdwaras and on weddings breakfast is served containing meat but there is no link between the Gurdwara and the community hall. On speaking to a friend about this issue he commented that they may get criticised for serving meat in an adjoining building, but they do not use absolutely foul and abusive language or fight with swords in the presence of Maharaj SGGS Ji JAAGAMI JOT as some of the other communities. which of these is more disrespectful ? As far as I am concerned there should be RESPECT AT ALL TIMES FOR MARAHAJ JI.