HKaur16

I think that because our society is very male dominant, not many female sants are known to everyone. But I believe that there are probably just as many female sants as male sants. They are confined to social norms therefore not many people know of them. Punjabi mindset doesn't allow them to come foreword and do parchar. Just my two cents on this.

I know of someone very close to me who does almost 7 Sukhmani Sahib Path several Jap Ji Sahib deh path (I'm not sure of how many) everyday, she has not taken Amrit. She has had darshan of Guru Ram Das Ji twice already. So Kamaii does count as stated above, Waheguru Ji works in great ways. Whomever he wants as a devotee will become his ardent devotee in any shape or form.

Spring announced itself in Delhi on Saturday. The sun was out, and the law took its course. Just before breakfast, the government of India secretly hanged Afzal Guru, prime accused in the attack on parliament in December 2001, and interred his body in Delhi's Tihar jail where he had been in solitary confinement for 12 years. Guru's wife and son were not informed. "The authorities intimated the family through speed post and registered post," the home secretary told the press, "the director general of the Jammu and Kashmir [J&K] police has been told to check whether they got it or not". No big deal, they're only the family of yet another Kashmiri terrorist. In a moment of rare unity the Indian nation, or at least its major political parties – Congress, the Bharatiya Janata party and the Communist party of India (Marxist) – came together as one (barring a few squabbles about "delay" and "timing") to celebrate the triumph of the rule of law. Live broadcasts from TV studios, with their usual cocktail of papal passion and a delicate grip on facts, crowed about the "victory of democracy". Rightwing Hindu nationalists distributed sweets to celebrate the hanging, and beat up Kashmiris (paying special attention to the girls) who had gathered in Delhi to protest. Even though Guru was dead and gone, the commentators in the studios and the thugs on the streets seemed, like cowards who hunt in packs, to need each other to keep their courage up. Perhaps because, deep inside, themselves they knew they had colluded in doing something terribly wrong. What are the facts? On 13 December 2001 five armed men drove through the gates of the Indian parliament in a car fitted out with a bomb. When challenged they jumped out of the car and opened fire, killing eight security personnel and a gardener. In the firefight that followed, all five attackers were killed. In one of the many versions of the confessions he was forced to make in police custody, Guru identified the men as Mohammed, Rana, Raja, Hamza and Haider. That's all we know about them. They don't even have second names. LK Advani, then home minister in the BJP government, said they "looked like Pakistanis". (He should know what Pakistanis look like right? Being a Sindhi himself.) Based only on Guru's custodial confession (which the supreme court subsequently set aside, citing "lapses" and "violations of procedural safeguards") the government recalled its ambassador from Pakistan and mobilised half a million soldiers on the Pakistan border. There was talk of nuclear war. Foreign embassies issued travel advisories and evacuated their staff from Delhi. The standoff lasted months and cost India thousands of crores – millions of pounds. Within 24 hours, the Delhi Police Special Cell (notorious for its fake "encounter" killings, where suspected terrorists are targeted in extrajudicial attacks) claimed it had cracked the case. On 15 December it arrested the "mastermind", Professor SAR Geelani, in Delhi, and Showkat Guru and his cousin Afzal Guru in Srinagar, Kashmir. Subsequently, they arrested Afsan Guru, Showkat's wife. The Indian media enthusiastically disseminated the police version. These were some of the headlines: "Delhi university lecturer was terror plan hub", "Varsity don guided fidayeen", "Don lectured on terror in free time." Zee TV, a national network, broadcast a " , a recreation that claimed to be the "truth based on the police charge sheet". (If the police version is the truth, why have courts?) The then prime minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, and Advani publicly applauded the film. The supreme court refused to postpone the screening, saying that the media would not influence judges. It was broadcast only a few days before the fast-track court sentenced Geelani and Afzal and Showkat Guru to death. Subsequently the high court acquitted Geelani and Afsan Guru. The supreme court upheld the acquittal. But in its 5 August 2005 judgment it gave Afzal Guru three life sentences and a double death sentence.The BJP called for an immediate execution. One of its election slogans was "Desh abhi sharminda hai, Afzal abhibhi zinda hai", which means (in stirring rhyme), "Our nation is ashamed because Afzal is still alive". In order to blunt the murmurs that had begun to surface, a fresh media campaign began. Chandan Mitra, now a BJP MP, then editor of the Pioneer newspaper, wrote: "Afzal Guru was one of the terrorists who stormed parliament house on 13 December 2001. He was the first to open fire on security personnel, apparently killing three of the six who died." Even the police charge sheet did not accuse Afzal of that. The supreme court judgment acknowledged the evidence was circumstantial: "As is the case with most conspiracies, there is and could be no evidence amounting to criminal conspiracy." But then, shockingly, it went on to say: "The incident, which resulted in heavy casualties, had shaken the entire nation, and the collective conscience of society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender." Who crafted our collective conscience on the parliament attack case? Could it have been the facts we gleaned in the papers? The films we saw on TV? Before celebrating the rule of law, let's take a look at what happened. The people who are celebrating the victory of the rule of law argue that the very fact that the Indian courts acquitted Geelani and convicted Afzal proves that the trial was free and fair. Was it? The trial in the fast-track court began in May 2002. The world was still convulsed by post 9/11 frenzy. The US government was gloating prematurely over its "victory" in Afghanistan. In the state of Gujarat, the massacre of Muslims by Hindu goon squads, helped along by the police and the state government machinery that had begun in late February, was still going on sporadically. The air was charged with communal hatred. And in the parliament attack case the law was taking its own course. At the most crucial stage of a criminal case, when evidence is presented, when witnesses are cross-examined, when the foundations of the argument are laid – in the high court and supreme court you can only argue points of law, you cannot introduce new evidence – Afzal Guru, locked in a high-security solitary cell, had no lawyer. The court-appointed junior lawyer did not visit his client even once in jail, he did not summon any witnesses in Guru's defence, and he did not cross-examine the prosecution witnesses. The judge expressed his inability to do anything about the situation. Even so, from the word go the case fell apart. A few examples out of many: The two most incriminating pieces of evidence against Guru were a cellphone and a laptop confiscated at the time of arrest. They were not sealed, as evidence is required to be. During the trial it emerged that the hard disk of the laptop had been accessed after the arrest. It only contained the fake home ministry passes and the fake identity cards that the "terrorists" used to access parliament – and a Zee TV video clip of parliament house. So according to the police, Guru had deleted all the information except the most incriminating bits. The police witness said he sold the crucial sim card that connected all the accused in the case to one another to Guru on 4 December 2001. But the prosecution's own call records showed the sim was actually operational from 6 November 2001. How did the police get to Afzal? They said that Geelani led them to him. But the court records show that the message to arrest Afzal went out before they picked up Geelani. The high court called this a "material contradiction" but left it at that. The arrest memos were signed by Bismillah, Geelani's brother, in Delhi. The seizure memos were signed by two men from the J&K police, one of them an old tormentor from Afzal's past as a surrendered "militant". It goes on and on, this pile up of lies and fabricated evidence. The courts note them, but for their pains the police get no more than a gentle rap on their knuckles. Nothing more. Anyone who was really interested in solving the mystery of the parliament attack would have followed the dense trail of evidence on offer. No one did, thereby ensuring the real authors of the conspiracy will remain unidentified and uninvestigated. The real story and the tragedy of what happened to Guru is too immense to be contained in a courtroom. The real story would lead us to the Kashmir valley, that potential nuclear flashpoint, and the most densely militarised zone in the world, where half a million Indian soldiers (one to every four civilians) and a maze of army camps and torture chambers that would put Abu Ghraib in the shade are bringing secularism and democracy to the Kashmiri people. Since 1990, when the struggle for self-determination became militant, 68,000 people have died, 10,000 have disappeared, and at least 100,000 have been tortured. What sets Guru's killing apart is that, unlike those tens of thousands who died in prison cells, his life and death were played out in the blinding light of day in which all the institutions of Indian democracy played their part in putting him to death. Now he has been hanged, I hope our collective conscience has been satisfied. Or is our cup of blood still only half full? -Arundhati Roy http://gu.com/p/3dyxc

They took it down.

Rumi, Malcolm X (read the autobiography of Malcolm X if you get time its amazing), Surya Sen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surya_Sen Jesus, Buddha, Sai Baba, Rani Laxmi Bai, Raja Harishchandra, Theres probably many more just cant think of them right now.

Harbhajan Singh is criticizing something that effects the whole society. Jasdeepsingh2k125 is criticizing an individual which honestly doesn't impact our roots or culture. Honestly veer, ok if after being on SikhSangat you've seen me throw the word judgement around, its because I see a lot of intolerance sometimes. It feels like we have to criticize everything posted on here. Why not just realize that ok he made a video tried to do something good thats it leave it at that and continue on with our day. I've been on Sikhsangat for many years also this isn't my only account I had another account before this one so I've read many of your posts too in the past and a lot of them I agree with and a lot of your posts I disagree with, but overall I still respect you as a poster. Yes he does mention that singers should sing about Baba Deep Singh Ji or the Sahibzaade. It just means that he respects the sacrifices Baba Ji made and the Sahibzaade made. He doesn't have to be a pooran Gursikh in order to do that. I am not a Harbhajan Singh fan nor do I know or care about his personal life. I don't know who he is dating or what he does because I honestly could care less about all of that. I just came across this video on youtube and I really liked it. I wanted to post it on here because we usually discuss Punjabi music and the vulgarity of some of it very often. I think we aren't looking at the bigger picture here and we are just nitpicking about silly irrelevant issues. Lets watch the video, enjoy it, and move on.

I love pictures like these :D

I agree with that part. I was just trying to make sure there weren't any contradictions or anything.

Well he is criticizing the fact that so many Punjabi singers demean women and the Punjabi language. Isn't that what we all try to criticize anyways? So why criticize someone that agrees with us? Doesn't make sense lol. A message is a message and considering the fan following he has I think its a good step. However I do agree with the fact that he should have tied a pagg. :biggrin2:

Veer at least he is doing something. Many of us including myself become internet warriors but can't make an impact in reality. I keep saying this over and over and over again on Sikh Sangat, I sound like a broken record but PLEASE FELLOW SIKHS LETS LOSE OUR HOLIER THAN THOU ATTITUDE!!! Just because you are a gursikh and he isn't, doesn't mean he has a dirty mouth. Who are we to judge someone else? Only Guru Ji can judge others. Who knows maybe we have loads of more avgun than someone else. Let Dharam Raj do the job not us.

Must Watch

No one knows about this?

Watch Oh My God.

I came across this Hindu story on Wikipedia and felt that it had a lot of similarities with Bhagat Trilochan Ji's story. It is about a poet named Vidyapati who was an ardent devotee of Shiva therefore Shiva came to live with his devotee in the form of a servant named Ugna. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidyapati So now I am a bit confused. Did Akal Purakh themself come to live with Bhagat Trilochan Ji as his servant Antarjaami? Or did Akal Purakh ji send someone as Antarjaami? In simpler words, who was Antarjaami? And can someone also shed some light on the story of Vidyapati?

I couldn't even look through them they were so vulgar and disgusting. Just shows the works of immature, unintelligent, and ignorant people.

http://news.yahoo.com/gurus-view-indian-rape-raises-anger-shared-many-130856965.html

Yes you can definitely take psychiatric help. But along with that also continue your gurbani and sharda in Guru Ji. Ask Guru Ji for support.

I think that especially in India rape is such a big issue because there is mindset conflict. A lot of Indians want to become westernized and they want to have the "right" to wear whatever they want and do whatever they want. But the problem with this is, India is a cultural nation. Even though many youngsters want to adopt western culture, they haven't been able to change the mindset of others in the same nation. For example, if a woman is out late at night, people think she is a bad woman and characterless, morally loose etc. However, she might be a simple lady walking home from work wearing a skirt as an imposed dress code. Now there are a few problems in this situation. The woman's employers have imposed a dress code to match western mentality. However, the rest of the people don't understand the western mentality and see her as a woman wearing revealing clothes. In many western countries, American/British girls (not from Indian descent) wear revealing clothes, shorts skirts etc. I am not saying it is ok to do so, I am just giving an example. Yet we walk by them and don't think much of it. Why? Because we have realized that this is their culture they haven't been raised to wear modest clothes and their definition of modesty is far different than ours. But Indian youngsters want to be just like them. They want to wear skirts and shorts and revealing clothes. But Indian culture doesn't allow that which attracts eve teasers and perverted men. I think Indian youngsters want to adopt western culture too quickly but they aren't able to change the mindset of the whole nation itself. This is just one aspect of the under lining issues of rape. There are many more.

Come on veer what is the difference between you and Asaram? What is the difference between us Sikhs and Muslims who say that if you don't follow their religion you will be punished for eternity? Saying that something bad happened to her because she wasn't going to bed early and rising at amrit vela? You are saying she was asking for it. I think its extremely ridiculous that we are ignoring the fact that we have no right to judge her as she was not a Sikh. Even if she was a Sikh, who are we to judge a fellow Sikh? This just shows holier than thou attitude. Look brother I am not trying to attack you personally but this mindset I strongly disagree with. I understand that we can analyze the situation now and say that, maybe she should have taken a rickshaw, or maybe she shouldn't have went to the movie. But the main point is, do we know before an attack is going to happen that it will happen? No right because if we did we would take all necessary precautions for it. She was not drunk, not out late at night, and moreover we have no right to judge her because she was not raised like you were raised. Simple and plain. Please lets not keep this egoistic holier than thou attitude and moreover lets sympathize with the victim.

I know what I am about to say is harsh, but nowadays no one cares about "made up" sibling relationships. There used to be a time where if a girl called a guy her brother, he would go to all measures to maintain the purity of the relationship. Nowadays no one cares no one has any sharam. If those men were vile enough to brutally rape the girl, how much do you think they care about their sisters? How can he think that by her calling them her brothers they would have stopped? Ask this "baba" does he look at all of his female followers as daughters?

If you were doing path from your phone I don't think the Giani should have disturbed you. Its happened to me many times. Not that I get asked to do Chor sahib seva but sometimes when I'm sitting and fully concentrating on doing path the Giani disturbs me and starts talking to me. I don't think a person doing path should be disturbed. I know that was a little off topic. But anyways I agree with the above poster maybe you should have taken the seva for a few minutes. You could have told the Giani that you can do it for a few minutes and he should ask someone else to do it afterwards. I don't think the sevadar should have been mad though especially for doing Maharaj's seva. Doing seva shouldn't be a chore it should be a blessing.

What about the Sikh women who were raped by the Punjab police during those years? Who will we ask justice from? Didn't members of the Punjab Police consider themselves "Sikh"?

I agree with the posters above. He is your father and we are to respect our parents. If he cooks as he is drinking then you can speak to him about that and explain to him that it interferes with your beliefs and you would prefer it if he cooked sober. jin kae janae baddeerae thum ho thin sio jhagarath paap ||1|| rehaao || It is a sin to argue with the one who fathered you and raised you. ||1||Pause|| Ang 1200 I think sometimes we take Sikhi to the point where we have "holier than thou" attitude.

I think it should also be considered that we are living in the age of social media. I think this is what caused such outrage over the Delhi rape case. Yes we should demand justice for 84 but there is a time and place for everything. As N3O veer wrote, this is not a place to discuss such things when the girl is in intensive care. Just imagine how much pain she must be going through she was assaulted with a rod which caused damage to her intestines. These protests and movements aren't just for Hindu women, they are for women all over India. You really need to stop cussing there are sisters and young kids on this forum.

I agree with this. It is the lack of mental healthcare available in this country. Also the mother was NOT a teacher at the same school according to CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html