BhForce

An even funnier thing is, you know how there is no shortage of peddlers and charlatans in India who waste no time in befooling white tourists and separating them from their money? What if these brown "Christian evangelists" are just con artists who have realized that a great way to make money is to 1) become a "Christian", 2) create "converts", fake or genuine, take their pictures and name/address info, and 3) profit! Thereby ensuring a steady stream of $$ from Amreeka.

Alright, I'll go ahead and apologize. My intent was to say that Guru Sahib did kirtan in a loud voice that reached afar, which is evident from the account, which says that Guru ji was outside the city, and the people of the city still heard them. Presumably, the committee doesn't get the idea of holding a nagar kirtan the day before Baisakhi. Prior planning is a must. Well, I don't think the councils should have to pay for cleanup. We should have crews of volunteer cleaners picking up garbage along the route. That's how they do it in many cities. Unfortunate. Unfortunate. Yeah, that's a good idea for main langar (dal + roti etc.). Plus the jihadis would be superstitious about entering a Gurdwara (they're afraid entering will suck the jihad out of them). Thereby creating a safe, jihadi-free zone to eat. But for kids and such they would still need to at least have bottled water or sealed water cups along the way.

The emperors of India didn't wear turbans?

I see. As noted above, you'll need the ghera of the kachera to be larger than your actual waist. For women, it probably won't be double, like it is for men. For men, the folds of the cloth of the extra ghera serve to protect modesty when not wearing any clothes. For women, you always have to wear a salwar over your kachera, so generally the ghera isn't so big. Here's one that offers 44 inches, still too small: http://www.sikhshop.net/18-buy-kachera-online This one is max 43 inches: http://www.khalsastore.com/Sikh-accessories/kachera/BUY-ONLINE-KACHERA-SIKH-TAKSALI-NIHANG-SINGH-2 Larger ones are often available in India, especially in large kakkar stores in Amritsar. I think what you may have to do is contract with a Sikh tailor to have custom-made kacheras tailored. The major expense will probably be shipping. For example: Gulati Tailor & Cloth House 2.0 2 reviews Clothing store in Punjab Directions Address: 26-A Brahm Butta Market, Near Golden Temple,, Near Guru Ram Das Nivas, Amritsar, Punjab 143001 Phone: 98720 26022 This is a well-known tailor. If you've every wandered outside of Darbar Sahib, you've probably seen this shop. It's possible he'll do shipping to wherever you are for a fee. Then again, I don't know, because I've never even gone into that shop. Good luck.

Really? Is that what you want to say? Now, while I do agree with the sentiment (expressed online on Facebook and elsewhere) that local Gurdwaras should not blast kirtan on loudspeakers for hours, that doesn't happen outside of India. In the UK, I would very much doubt that Sikhs are using loudspeakers illegally. I assume they have permits. So, what exactly are you trying to say? That mikes/speakers should be banned in the Gurdwara, too? Because Guru Sahib didn't use those either. Nor heaters, fans, air conditioners, electric lighting, etc. Way to miss the point. The point is that Guru Sahib took the message to the people, as opposed to sitting ensconced in a temple waiting for people to show up. And there were processions during the time of the 10 Gurus, too.

Yeah, while I appreciate the feelings of the OP teacher, the vast majority of non-Sikhs in the west have no clue about our dietary practices. For example, Christians seem to think that fish is not meat. (This is because the Catholic church accepts fish for eating on non-meat Fridays.) They don't think that a small amount of meat/animal product/gelatin/etc. mixed into a food product is a big deal. They think that eggs are OK for non-vegetarian diet. They don't think it's a big deal to add some alcohol to foods which alcohol will supposedly evaporate during baking. Also, if you've ever seen a kitchen scene on TV, people take a spoon/ladleful of spaghetti sauce or whatever, taste it, and then put the ladle back into the pot! If the Gurdwara makes an exception for the teacher, then they'd have to make an exception for everybody, thereby leading either to messy situations or the obliteration of our maryada (code of conduct).

All good points. I do realize that for some young people (and even buddeh), nagar kirtans are just a mela (fair). But who cares? Someone attends a nagar kirtan for maybe 5 years straight, or even 10 years. Maybe in the 11th year he'll encounter a Sikh pracharak (traditional or otherwise) or a pamphlet which will transform his life. If there were no nagar kirtans, that would not happen. Also, great numbers of Sikhs coming together is praised by Bhai Gurdas ji: ਦੋਇ ਸਿਖ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਹੈ ਦਸ ਬੀਸ ਤੀਸ ਮਿਲੇ ਅਬਿਗਤਿ ਊਪ ਹੈ ॥੧੨੨॥ Doi Sikh Saadhasangu Panch Paramaysar Hai , Das Bees Tees Milay Abigati Oop Hai ॥122॥ So would two Sikhs together make a holy congregation while five of them would represent the Lord. But where ten, twenty or thirty like-minded Sikhs engrossed in the love of the Guru meet, their praise is beyond description. (122) ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ ਜੀ : ਕਬਿੱਤ ੧੨੨ ਪੰ. ੪

Have no idea, but is it because, as some people feel, nagar kirtans are a waste of money, and the money should be spent on the poor? The problem is, I don't think anybody ever gets around to spending the money on the poor. And I don't think nagar kirtans cost the gurdwara committees too much money. After all, they don't pay for the floats. Only maybe the one for Guru Sahib. And that's just a one-time expense. In fact they must gain money from offerings. Some people have the idea of: What's the point of a nagar kirtan? Well, I think the point is getting us and our message out in front of the world. Guru Nanak Dev ji didn't just sit inside a Gurdwara at Kartarpur. They went all around the world. The idea of a nagar kirtan is basically similar to Guru Sahib blaring kirtan sitting outside of Baghdad.

Thanks for making so much stuff available. But one benti: Scribd is positively Evil. ? They were quasi-free in the beginning to get people used to uploading and downloading stuff. But now they make you pay to download stuff. The alternative is to upload PDFs, but how many people have spare PDFs lying around to upload in return for every file they want to download? I have seen many times where I've attempted to upload a bona fide PDF, and Scribd says the PDF is a duplicate of one already on the site. So what are you supposed to upload? Your own personal budget? If you were asking for money in return for your time and expense in collecting and uploading material, I would not object. But the money goes to Scribd. Why should every Sikh out there give money to Scribd to download Gurmat gian? If I could ask a favor of you, why not 1) upload your stuff on Sikhsangat? If not all your stuff, how about just the PDF of the Vakta Sarota for now, since it is pertinent to the topic being discussed? 2) Upload your materials to Gurmatveechar.com or another similar site. 3) Get a free blog at wordpress.com, and upload your files there. (Note: Blogspot.com blogs are free, too, but you can't upload PDFs there.) Thanks, brother.

So she would accept none of the non-controversial topics I suggested above? She only wants you to do controversial topics which are likely to have you get points marked off by biased graders? How exasperating! What different perspectives would those be? I thought there was only one mainstream perspective that the attack was horrible? Or are you referring to the perspective of Muslim jihadis who celebrated the attack? There are some people on this board that don't think the Twin Towers went down due to a plane piloted by hijackers, rather that there were other sinister forces at work. That perspective, however, is highly deprecated in the mainstream. What sort of references would you hope to get for such a perspective from JSTOR? Not to mention the fact that you mark yourself out as a conspiracy theorist. Also, what does this topic have to do with you as a Sikh? This just is crying out for a grader to label you Islamophobic. "actions of its followers" I can only imagine where that will lead to. As in the tenets of the Koran leading to the actions of jihadis. Have you not heard of M-103, the Islamophobia resolution? While not criminal law, it does state the official policy of the government of Canada, which is anti-"Islamophobic". Meaning that you're setting yourself up for a world of hurt if you happen to get either a Muslim or a Muslim sympathizing grader. Out of these 3, this is the least worst. You're still in the awkward position of bigging up your own religion while possibly denigrating others, but hopefully you should be able to come up with some sufficiently banal prose to make it non-controversial. I would say that the suggestions I gave in the previous post would be better in that you're not comparing our religion to somebody else's, which automatically gets people defensive.

If you have it, why don't you post it? Very few people have access to Suraj Prakash. At the very least you could post the chapter information.

One thing that is crystal clear from the excerpts is that these people (proselytizers) are not Godly people. Unlike some people here, I don't hate Christians or Christianity. I'm entirely fine with them living in Western countries. I'm fine with the small number of Christians living in India, too. What I'm not fine with is Western Christians crossing the seven seas to fool people into changing their religions. There are no atheists in the US or Canada? These efforts are obviously funded by American Christians; Indian Christians would not have the wherewithal to fund such efforts, because they're often poor or lower-class themselves. If these proselytizers were Godly, they wouldn't use scam tactics to fool people. One question for these retards: If Jesus "is" Satguru, then Sikhs are already fine as they are with Guru Granth Sahib. Since Jesus is "Satguru", and Sikhs believe in Satguru, then problem solved, Sikhs already believe in Jesus. Leave Punjab and go and try to convert some other people.

Did you read the whole report and excerpt it yourself? If so, that's great. If you're copy-pasting, where from? Also, where did you get a copy of the report?

Well, it's an illusion in that if we had "those eyes" (dib drishti) we could see it's not actually Maya, but rather God. But you can't know the nature of reality merely through discourse. Rather, you have to do simran (meditation). That's how you can become one with God, and therefore know God, and therefore know reality. God is mixed in with maya, like sugar mixed in with sand: ਹਰਿ ਹੈ ਖਾਂਡੁ ਰੇਤੁ ਮਹਿ ਬਿਖਰੀ ਹਾਥੀ ਚੁਨੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ Har Hai Khaandd Raeth Mehi Bikharee Haathhee Chunee N Jaae || The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up. ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਗੁਰਿ ਭਲੀ ਬੁਝਾਈ ਕੀਟੀ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਖਾਇ ॥੨੩੮॥ Kehi Kabeer Gur Bhalee Bujhaaee Keettee Hoe Kai Khaae ||238|| Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. ||238|| ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ (ਭ. ਕਬੀਰ) (੨੩੮):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੭੭ ਪੰ. ੮ Salok Bhagat Kabir You can't obtain the sugar by being big like an elephant (i.e., acting like a body). You have to be fine, small, sublime (like a soul). Then can you find God mixed in with the material world (Maya).

OK, strange, but whatever. Yet, even if it has to be personal, I don't see that it must necessarily be regarding Sikhism. I mean, in addition to being a Sikh, you're also a Punjabi and an Indian (yes, I realize you're probably not a citizen of India). So if a Hindu Indo-Canadian could do an essay on Indian culture, dance, literature, whatever, why can't you? Is India only for Hindus? Just a few topics: Indian classical dance Indian classical music (Hindustani) Indian classical music (Carnatic) Gurmat sangeet Gurmat sangeet vs Hindustani classical music Indian classical music vs Western classical music (harmony, melody, etc.) Indian classical plays (Kalidas) compare and contrast Shakespheare Architectural motifs and patterns of the Golden Temple (Darbar Sahib), including relation to Sikh theology (parikarma, water, causeway, 4 doors, lower level of Darbar Sahib vs. Amritsar city, lotus motifs, inscriptions, engravings of Gurus and lower deities, etc.) Punjabi architectural patterns Punjabi embellishment/art/folk art (embroidery, Phulkari, gota, etc.) Again, I would stay clear away from Sikh extremist-type topics. You're not in a position to argue those topics. If you become a professor of religion or sociology with tenure, then maybe you could do research in that field.

Extremely bad idea, in my opinion. First of all, you're asking strangers to side with you in a militant fight against an established government, one which was ostensibly democratically elected in, as they say, the "largest democracy in the world". When people think of India, they think it's the land of spirituality and non-violence and Gandhi. Anybody who would opposed the elected government of such a country is automatically suspect. So you'd be swimming upstream right from the start. You simply don't have the ability in 4000 words to refute all possible objections. You also don't have space to relate why the Sikhs should be viewed as relatable or favored figures. The spirituality of the Gurus or good works done by the Sikhs (charity, langar, helping the poor, digging wells, stopping Islamic invasions). Even if you were to demonstrate that the Indian government "started it", and the Sant was only responding to the invasion of Darbar Sahib, readers of your essay still won't know why the Sant was opposed to the government in the first place. So then you'd have to get into the entire story of the Sikhs' grievances, the level of water available in the Indus river basin, Haryana being or not being in the Indus river system or the Jamuna river basin, water requirements, etc., etc. You only have 4000 words. What's strange to me is their insistence that your essay have to do with you as a Sikh. Why should that be? Can't Sikhs do research on non-Sikh topics? There's a famous Jewish historian named Bernard Lewis who does research on Islam. According to IB, he shouldn't do so, and should just stick to Judaism? If I were you, I'd do something completely unrelated to Sikhism, like say economic development in Latin American dictatorships in the 2nd half of the 20th century. Doing it on Sikhism (in the topic you proposed) seems like a way to get yourself labeled as a budding Sikh terrorist, not a good idea in the current climate. If they insist on you doing something related to your "background", can't you ask that the background be expanded? Why does it have to be about your religion, can't it be in relation to the fact that you're an Indian? What about doing the essay on the Kaveri river dispute in southern India? If you do that, you can get your digs in about water belonging to riparian states without having to be labeled a Sikh extremist. Or, the topic of problems of the former socialist industrial policy of India, under which you had to get a license from the government to open up industry (leading to corruption, lethargic economic growth, unemployment, lack of innovation, etc.).

Wonderful sentiment. But your idea is fraught with problems in relation to sensitivities regarding food ingredients, and the ability to trust that something prepared from the outside (and especially by a non-Sikh) is OK for consumption. The reason I say "non-Sikh" is not because Sikhs won't eat food prepared by non-Sikhs; the vast majority happily do so. The reason I say it is because the vast majority of non-Sikhs are unfamiliar with details of prohibited ingredients, as elucidated above. Secondly, non-Sikhs are unfamiliar with concepts of jooth (don't taste the food while you're preparing it, don't have a taste after you're done and before it has been offered at the Gurdwara). Now, I suppose you could become familiar with such concepts, but the what about the next person who wants to offer food in this manner? Maybe he/she won't be so familiar, word will get out, and a contentious situation will arise where there wasn't one before. My advice: Buy a bunch of fruit wholesale and donate that. You get to reciprocate with love, and no problems arise, either. You can also donate store-bought ghee (clarified butter) or milk. That's what most Sikhs do. Donating ghee or milk is considered especially auspicious because those items are relatively more expensive and sought-after (as opposed to salt or flour). But for you, fruit would still be best, because the congregation will remember that you donated fruit.

One thing that you should know is that the ghera (width) of a kachera is roughly 2 to 2.5x the actual waist size of a person. So, let's say that a man has a waist of 33in. The kachera's width would be roughly 50-60in for a large kachera, which is what you should be wearing if you're not a gelding. If you're a girl, wear a suitably smaller one. The pauncha (leg opening) for a man should be maybe 10=11 inches or so. It's purposely a bit tight so that if, say you're sitting with your butt and feet on the floor, and knees up, no one can peek inside and see your privates. The other measurement for a kachera is length, which, for a large kachera would mean the length from your waist to your knees (maybe 20-25 in).

I assume you're not reading the original, so which translation on which website are you reading? (There are some problems with some translations.)

Welcome to the forum. No, I don't think it's disrespectful. Guru Granth Sahib is a treasure of spirituality. One can accept the whole treasure, or even if you were to accept a small gold piece, that would be a benefit, too, right? There are two Sikhisms: One specific, and one general. The latter being for you. You might be called a "Sehajdhari Sikh", a outside admirer. Best first step would be to create a free account on here -- much easier to converse when you can get notifications and people can verify which account is posting what. The only way I could see this as a problem is if you demanded a vote in the SGPC (historical Sikh temple board) or other Gurdwara elections. Merely coming to the Gurdwara (or sitting in your house interacting electronically) is just not a problem.

You plan to join the academy, or are already accepted? So they have other Sikhs in the SF police, or you'd be the 1st? Do they have a policy for Sikhs? (Like turban colors, placing insignia on turban, etc.?)

OK, quite good if you can stand the commute. The average house price in Sacramento is $318K. A $309K house w/ 4 bed, 2 baths will have a mortgage payment of $1592/mo incl taxes and insurance, or $19,104 per year. Leaving you $80K for other stuff. So, yeah, bank.

"Making bank"? Exactly how much do they pay police officers in San Francisco, and doesn't most of that just get gobbled up by the outrageous rents?

Ha! Main kiha Jarman ton aya si 22.

You make it seem as if there were 3 equally sized competing Singh Sabhas. In reality, the Lahore Singh Sabha far outpaced the Amritsar Singh Sabha as far as affiliates and output of literature and ultimate influence in the Panth. Bhasaur Singh Sabha was more like a village branch of the Singh Sabha, not an equal competitor. Kind of like a McDonalds franchise. There were plenty of other village-level Singh Sabhas. The innovations of Babu Teja Singh were not accepted by the main Singh Sabha.