BhForce

Although you can see from my posts in this thread that I agree with your main point, by posting this, I predict you will get into a shouting match with AkaliFauj and others, definitely not leading to you convincing him or others of the fact that Sikhi does not advocate countering apostasy with the death penalty.

Yeah, perhaps you could have bothered to post a bit of Gurbani on what Sikhs are supposed to do with bemukhs. Gurbani tells Sikhs to boycott bemukhs. It does not tell Sikhs to kill bemukhs.

"Giani" (actually "agiani" ) Kuldeep "Singh" (the one who dropped 3 banis from Amrit Sanchar) is a bemukh, loser, fool, and <banned word filter activated>. He was on that website of Ragi Darshan Singh's (which I won't link to), posting a list inane "questions" for the Singh Sahibs undermining faith in basic Sikh tenets, including Dasam Patshah's bani. I was quite shocked when "Giani" Kuldeep "Singh" took the step of arranging an "Amrit Sanchar" without the 3 banis from the Dasam Granth Sahib. I don't remember if I posted specifically about the Virginia "Amrit Sanchar", but I have posted regarding documentary evidence for the 5 Amrit banis. That said, for me it is not OK to make a mockery of the religion, or to bring drastic (or gradual) anti-Gurmat change. They are definitely perpetrators, and they will face punishments in hell (as detailed in Gurbani, posted by me many times previously). As for punishment in this world, Gur-Itihas does not show that Guru Sahib had propagators of anti-Gurmat killed. For example, Pirth Chand set up his own parallel Guruship (necessarily denouncing the legitimacy of the Guruship of Guru Arjan Dev ji) and his own "Darbar Sahib". I would say that that definitely qualifies as anti-Gurmat. But Guru Sahib did not have him killed. Instead, the Guru's Sikhs (Bhai Gurdas ji/Baba Buddha ji) preached against the heretics, and warned the Sangat, including via text (Vaars). Which is exactly what we should be doing, with words (among our friends/relatives), katha, speeches, lectures, symposiums, pamphlets, Youtube videos, Internet discussion boards, Facebook, etc. I think it's a wonderful thing that Sikhsangat is generally considered an anti-jihadi / anti-radical Islam website. But one of the reasons that people detest radical Islam is stuff like the fact that if you become an apostate in Islam, the punishment is death. By contrast, in our divine religion, the punishment (in this world) is merely that you go on your own way, with Sikhs having nothing to do with you. That's why the Prophet Mohammed had Asma bint Marwan, a female Arab poet, killed for ridiculing him. See here. And on the other hand Guru Har Rai Sahib excommunicated (not executed) Ram Rai. I think it would be extremely bad for Americans to start thinking that Sikhs are nothing more than Muslims with kirpans, killing anybody that doesn't agree with them. It will be very difficult for us to live in Western countries if that false notion takes hold. I believe I have credibility to speak on this issue because I am one of the most conservative posters on this site. With the greatest of respect for you and other posters on this site, I hope that we will all come together to vigorously denounce Sikhs heretics like "Giani" Kuldeep "Singh" of Virginia while at the same time educating people that a death penalty for apostasy is not a part of Gur-Itihas. Bhulchuk maaf.

The reason people talk about these topics are because they have real impact on people's lives. If a plane flies into the NYC World Trade Center towers in a Hollywood creation, it has no effect. But when it did so for real, real Sikhs died in the backlash. That was not "false", bro. Also not false was 6 of our brothers dying in the attack on the Gurdwara in Wisconsin. Brexit will have a real impact on people's lives in Britain, which includes us or our brothers living in the UK. It's a matter of vital importance because if the UK remains in the EU, it could be forced to accept huge numbers of "refugees" just like the Eastern European countries are being forced to. If that happens, we will be living in a quasi-Islamic state in Britain because when the number of Muslims in a country reaches a threshold level, people are no longer free to live their lives in the way they want. If you're one of those that wants to put their heads in the sand, that's fine, but why do you even read Internet discussion boards? You should be living simply in nature far away from the crowds like Henry David Thoreau. Definitely a place with no Internet access.

They are part of sikhri harinder singh based out of US. Not a good guy at all. Too many controversies surrounding him. Punjab’s PDL started by him but I guess they are bit independent but I WILL never trust them. Yes, Sikhri is organization that sowed doubt about the Dohra read after ardas (Guru manyo Granth ... raj karega Khalsa...), in addition to other things in a curriculum prepared for Sikh kids in the US. I also would like to know what the motivation behind PDL is. Who is funding it? And what's the end game? Will they start charging for access at a certain time? It would be better for a neutral organization, like the SGPC, to digitize documents, and make them available for free for all the Sangat. We (Sikhs in general) already pay for the SGPC. The SGPC probably already has a good deal on its Internet upload access from their HQ in Amritsar, so why should the sangat have to pay another private organization (the PDL) for access to manuscripts?

I'm trying to figure out what you're saying. Are you saying it's bad that the British people don't want to take orders from the EU? If so, what's bad about that? Also, do you favor Punjab being able to do what it wants to do without interference by Delhi? If so, do you oppose the UK being able to do what it wants to do without interference by Brussels? And if so, why?

OK, well, what do the people want?

Don't know about this. You might want to contact Ms. Gurmeet Rai, active in Sikh conservation issues. I think this is her contact info: https://in.linkedin.com/in/gurmeet-sangha-rai-1a793b30 Also see http://www.sikhfoundation.org/renconv.html

Yes, that was the entire point. EU rules forbid any EU members from negotiating trade deals. The point of leaving the EU was so the UK can negotiate its own trade deals with the US, the British Commonwealth, and the world. If the EU had given David Cameron a bit of leeway, such as restrictions on immigration and allowance for trade deals, the UK would likely never have voted to leave the EU. Now they will be in a world of hurt with a huge hole in their budget without the UK supporting them. They will either have to increase member contributions (for net donor members) or scrap subsidies (for net recipient members), both of which will increase infighting in the EU.

Great practical advice. We need to be prepared for when it kicks off.

Yes, he is widely considered a good author by traditional Sikhs (i.e. "Sikhs"), including Taksali Sikhs.

OK, there's absolutely no information for Singapore. For the country in which the vast majority of Sikhs live (India), there's a one-line reference to article 25 of the Constitution, but no specific information on practical stuff like wearing kirpans on airplanes. For Canada, it says "In most public places in Canada a Sikh religious Kirpan is allowed but there some places where it is not clear cut such as workplaces and schools." Makes no mention of the fact that small kirpans are now allowed on airplanes in Canada. The website shows less information than you'd get on the first page of a Google search.

1. All of the answers at the link above are written by ethnic Chinese on a general basis regarding bearing of weapons. The mainstream Singaporean does not know of specific accommodations for Sikhs in Singapore. The Sikh community has come to an accommodation with the police, as stated above. If you're going to Singapore, you won't have a problem, just keep your kirpan out of sight. Also stitch your gatra really tight so the kirpan doesn't fall out of the gatra. And don't talk about your kirpan. What the mainstream community doesn't know won't hurt them. If one of your co-workers asks about Sikhs wearing kirpan, just tell them you're supposed to wear a kirpan, but you follow all applicable laws while in Singapore. Don't make problems for our brothers who live in Singapore. 2. If you still have doubts, you can call one of the phone numbers for the Sikh Advisory Board, or call any of the Gurdwaras of Singapore, but they'll tell you the same thing: wear a small hidden kirpan.

Yeah, I've heard of that sort of thing, too. Stupid and greedy granthis that pre-place a bookmark on a "good" hukumnamma. Regarding cyber-"hukumnamma", I don't think it's a big deal, as long as you understand the context. If you're just looking to read a random shabad, I don't see a problem. It would be like looking for random shabads to sing from Amrit Keertan pothi. Don't call it a "hukumnamma", just call it a "random shabad".

http://sikhadvisoryboard.org/index.php/security-guidelines-on-the-kirpan/ The Sikhs of Singapore have put forth the above guidance after consulting with Singapore authorities. Singaporeans know about Sikhs, and respect them. But to keep order in their society, they ban weapons. For Sikhs, the authorities acknowledge the kirpan, but don't want the general population getting the wrong idea. Basically, Sikhs can wear kirpan, but don't flash it. Just keep it hidden, and you will be fine. Also, keep it small. Out of sight, out of mind.

Am I too machinery for you? Was joking, bro. I was taking a self-deprecating dig at how we sometimes operate on Sikhsangat. Go ahead and do your thinking, and then come back with a reply.

Just look at this guy, trying to use facts and stuff. That's not the way we do things around here on Sikhsangat, bro. Around here, we spout off on things of which we have no knowledge, and certainly no references. Get with the program!

It depends on the actions of the soul while on Earth. If bad, the soul can go on to a lower life form (animals and such). If particularly bad, it can go to hell for punishment. If good enough to merit another chance, then another human life. If better still, a life in a Sikh family. If good, possibly a spell in paradise (baikunth). For a few who are engrossed in God, they would be sent to Sachkhand (the Realm of Truth, which is the abode of Nirankar--God).

Right. Agree that non-violence should be countered with non-violence. If you had just left it at that, it would have been all good. However, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. When the United States killed (executed) Timothy McVeigh, was that justice or revenge? (I'm not saying he shouldn't have been executed.) I'm just asking the question in accordance with your definitions. Also, how did killing Timothy McVeigh "solve the problem"? By killing him, did the 168 people killed in the Oklahoma City bombing come to life? Can you describe the way in which the process of deciding to kill Timothy McVeigh was driven not driven by emotion, and was driving by logic and rationality?

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind, and would encourage it, even. There are some that would, I think. Those are the ones that think Sikhs "own" the turban. But they don't. Sikhs did not invent the turban. It was pre-existing. The Gurus merely made it mandatory to preserve what is seen as a element of dignity.

That would be a fascinating question to explore in a doctoral dissertation. Instead, what we get is losers like Prem Singh and Harjot Singh Oberoi and other acolytes of WH McHew questioning the very foundations of Sikhism (Guru Granth Sahib ji).

For the purposes of this post, let's leave aside the divine aspect of Satguru, where Guru Sahib is omniscient. On a worldly level, children easily pick up the language spoken around them (the language of Bihar in Guru Gobind Singh ji's case). But note also that children of American missionaries in Africa learn perfect American English from their parents. So the ma-boli of Guru Gobind Singh ji would be Punjabi as learned from Mata Gujri ji. Fascinating question. There was a Persian traveller named Mohisin Fani who met with the 6th Guru. I wonder what language they conversed in. This also applies to conversations had during Guru Nanak ji's udasis.

Yeah, I think that on the one hand amritdhari/keshadhari should stop calling non-amritdhari/non-keshadhari (as the case may be) "non-Sikhs". Some people on this board call them "Punjabis". What is that supposed to mean? Punjabis are of all different types of religions. On the other hand, non-amritdhari/non-keshadhari should accept that they are Sikhs and that necessarily entails some sort of responsibility, including learning about our religion and making steps (however slowly) to follow it, such as everything other than keeping hair. And also feeling the need for helping our community out in times of crisis, such as the grooming issue.

The article says the natives feel the land being given the GNNSJ to build a university has sacred properties. I feel that Sikhs' sense of fair play should preclude us getting a sweetheart deal from the government and stepping over other people's deeply held feelings. Isn't there someplace else the university could be built? Or maybe most/some of the land could be left open, and the general community could be given access rights.

You're saying the Sarbloh teeka commonly available was published after his passing? But what explains the forward he wrote to that? It's written in a way that could only be oriented towards a mass audience, not a select group of Nihangs who already believe in the text. In the forward, he uses various means of argument, including internal evidence to prove that the Sarbloh Granth is Guru Gobind Singh ji's work. He uses words like "shankavadi". There would be no reason for writing such an essay for an audience of Nihangs. Yeah, about secret knowledge, another point which was highlighted on, I believe this forum a while ago, was the possibility of Muslims imitating Sikhs, especially in regards to kirpan-wearing on airplanes. Now, how could they imitate a Sikh? Well, the first step would be to tie a turban. And where would they learn that? Certainly not from any self-respecting Sikh. Oh, wait, we have ourselves put tutorials on how to imitate a Sikh online for the entire world. It's call turban videos on Youtube. OK, what about the Khalsa Mehima shabads? These are quite widely spread in the Panth, even among those who have never even heard of the Sarbloh Granth.