Ranjeet01

I said "some" seem to have a "degree " of inferiority complex. It's like English language. It's a Germanic language coming from Angles who were a tribe/people from Northern Germany like the Saxons which is why they call anglo speaking people Anglo -Saxon. If we use the Punjabi language analogy by "some" of our people then all the English people are German. However, if you have ever been to Germany (like Saxony states where Saxons came from) and have a look at the German compared to the average English person then you will notice a big difference. I would say the average German is far blonder, taller and even their features are slightly different. What would be likely is that the Anglo Saxon migration would have a bigger linguistic and cultural impact but a minimal genetic impact. Then we have had the Norman invasion, the word "Norman" comes from the word "Norsemen " who were Vikings that settled in Normandy in Northern France. Since they were French speakers, I am sure that a lot of French loan words were introduced into the English language but I'm sure the English are not French. However, the Brits (people of England,Scotland, Ireland and Wales) are related to Brittany in Northern France which is why Britain is called "Great Britain". Like I said before there is some cultural overlap but it is not simple as we like to think. Another example are the Azeris of Northern Iran. Azeris are the same stock as the Persians who after being run over by the Turkic speaking peoples changed over their language from Iranian/Persian related to a Turkic one. However, they are not genetically Mongols or Turks from Siberia. Same can be said in regards to modern Turkey to some extent.

What is interesting about Persian is that after the Arab conquests in the 7th century, Persians were not able to speak their own mother tongue and were threatened to have their tongues cut out if they did. You are correct about the amount of arab loanwords in Punjabi. . I think some people think it came from Persian but do not realise that at one time Persian contained one third of it's vocabulary from Arabic but I think that has been reversed some what. Language is more than loanwords, it is grammar and sentence structure too. The reality is the "persian " in the Punjabi language is the result of conquest. There seems to be a degree of inferiority complex by some of our people.

However, it is always assumed influence flows in one direction. Ironically in pre-Islamic Persian empire the lingua franca was Aramaic. Which is interesting because the scripts of Central Asian Buddhism were in Karaghost script which was a script based on the Aramaic one.

Persian would have influenced Punjabi because Punjab was under the control of Mughals and the likes of Lodhi who were central asians and Afghans where Persian was lingua franca. In the same way English is lingua franca for Modern India.

The claim that we are Persian and then we proceed to call it Farsi which from what I understand is the Arab pronounciation for Persian because there is no "P" in the Arab alphabet.

There is always this assumption that somehow migration was from West to East. Migration went the other way too. Furthermore, for example it is assumed that red hair is Celtic. However, where did the Celts come from? They went from Asia into Europe. There was a red haired race known as Tocharians that lived in North West China. Also, from studies have shown that until about 7000 years ago that Homo Sapiens that entered into Europe were brown skinned and had blue eyes.

The author is Satnam Sangha / Sanghera I believe.

They should be named and shamed. These types have no qualms about doing bad but don't like being exposed.

Yes.

A lot of gurdwarae darbar halls are now fitted with projectors uses for translations in English. If you observe with BOS at Park Avenue Southall Gurdwara on Sunday evening, they are full. English is a big factor and they are of a much younger sangat. I remember a talk done by Jagraj Singh who mentioned that Gurdwarae in the west have large darbar halls and in Punjab and India the darbar are not that large. The design of the darbar is very different in the west. The last of your paragraph is very telling of the expectations for a Western Sikh. I believe gurdwarae already do quite a lot more for the Sangat then we realise but this is not publicised like the negative stuff. People expect things to be handed all these things on a silver platter but the thing is the hands of the Sangat. Gurdwarae are self sustaining ecosystems (this is the genius of our Gurus).

Hundal, Sian do lots of community work. Just guess which community they work for.

Because it sounds trendy and fashionable and they don't know what it actually means. It's like those people who get Chinese writing tattoos on their arms.

Of course I am a right wing bigot. I express and make my own opinions and don't read those publications. I read the Guardian (probably one of your favourite sources) as well as whole host of other various sources from all political persuasions. I will express my opinions and provide my own critical analysis of what I think is happening. It might not be your cup of tea but it is my point of view.

You have given your whole game away. You've provided exactly what I said you were. I have given ample examples, yet you come back with more questions. Which means my assessment was correct. You'll come back I'm sure with asking of an example of the example I have provided.

For starters, it seems that any Sikh orgs that do speak out against what's happening in general that may have "some" shared views with those that seem to be not of the liberal/left persuasion is seen as an abomination by left wing Sikhs. It leads to me to believe that you are clearly on the left of the political spectrum. There is nothing wrong in being on the left of the spectrum. However, the left of the spectrum these days which claim to be tolerant and inclusive except they are very selective as to whom they are tolerant towards. Now with the increase in muslim population has meant an increase in certain crimes such as organised street grooming and terrorism. Now with these happening more often, people are beginning to find patterns for this. A lot of this rooted in Islamic ideology. The fact the likes of SYUK will speak out against this you don't like. The people who support the left of the political spectrum like the Islamists for some reason and tend to walk on egg shells around them. However, people on the left of the political spectrum (like yourself I believe) won't think twice about attacking people who want to stand up to the intolerance. The contradiction I find generally with the left is that they want full rights for gays yet at the same time want full Sharia law for muslims. The irony is that the muslims will attack the gays if given half the chance. Muslims will not show tolerance and the people on the left will not speak out. If someone not of the left points this out, it is pointed out as hate speech and you are shouted down called islamophobic or racist. The left want diversity, just not diversity of opinion. In the Communist countries, freedom of speech is not allowed. The left claims to be liberal but act in the same manner of Communist countries. Communism has it's origins in Marxism and I suspect the left are Marxists in disguise. They might not be in power politically but there is cultural subversion going on. It seems that you are clearly influenced by this type of thought. That is why I suggested that you may be a Cultural Marxist. I provided a link from the Telegraph to show what is happening in universities that has been overwhelmed by leftist though is now doing no platform which means freedom of speech is being curtailed. This is cultural marxism taking over. However, if it is Islamic hate speech it is accepted. Your stance against SYUK seems to suggest that you are accepting of Islamist hate speech but not of people who would fight against it like Tommy Robinson. I think the problem Sikhs on left of the political spectrum is that they think Sikhi somehow is the same as this leftist thought. It is not. They are influenced by the left (which is influenced by Marxism ) more so than Sikhi. That is why I called you a Cultural Marxist. If you feel that is not articulated enough for you I can go on and on and on. The problem with your thought process is that it may eventually lead into a totaliterian system. Totalitarianism is the antisesis of Sikhi.

It's a reply to the other poster. He was mentioning that there are not enough sangat that attends the gurdwara but when we drilled down into the specifics. There are more people in the langar hall than the darbar.

I have already shown examples. I have even displayed with the video of the stages of this indoctrination but it seems you choose to avoid it.

I don't think that I have been disparaging about you. You are clearly someone who believes is following the Sikh way but the reality is that you are clearly indoctrinated to think like a Cultural Marxist. It is clear that you dismiss any Sikh organisation that does not follow the left wing line. It seems your mindset it based on what this KGB guy. You seem to display some of these symptoms:

I apologise for being such a bigot. I should embrace the peaceful Sharia law where I can peacefully accept that women's word is worth half of a man. I should wholeheartedly accept that gay people should be thrown off buildings. Then maybe I will become enlightened.

Please elaborate how I propagate tyranny. Who is the tyranny against?

Sunny For starters you naturally assert or insinuate that Tommy Robinson is a bigot without actually hearing what he has to say. In this free democratic country we should listen to all points of view. The fact that you do not like this, particularly from your political end of the spectrum is very similar to the Communist era where people are dismissed without hearing what they have to say because it does not suit your narrative. The problem with universities these days is that have become no platforms for freedom of speech (particularly since they are very much on the left) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/19/universities-told-must-commit-free-speech-new-plans/amp/

Sorry Sunny As a Sikh I will speak against tyranny. Problem is tyranny is coming people claim to be the anti fascists. It is not coming from Tommy. Shame you are too blind to see it. As you are a cultural marxist, you do realise the communists and people that fall on the political left at this moment are extremely similar to the facists.

Personally, I have early been in the morning 5.30am and during rehras paath time 6.30ish you will get double figures. People who are on early shifts or finished night shift in the mornings. After work for rehras and even during lunch times. Sangat will fit it around their schedules. Also, people are going to vary their time in Darbar hall. Some are just going matha tek. Then others will sit for 5 minutes and then go. Some will do a full paath.

Now we are getting into specifics. It is not the fact that Gurdwarae have a lot of Sangat, it is the fact that they are not sitting in the darbar hall but in the langar hall. This is because Gurdwarae in the west do not have the exact same function as it would be in Punjab. Gurdwarae in the west are more than just places of worship, they are like social centres bringing the community together but not in the way you would expect. However, even on normal day you can get about 50 people sitting in the darbar hall at any one time. The reason why it doesn't look like that is because darbar halls are so big. They can look half empty but can have quite a lot of people. I'm surprised regarding Gravesend, particularly since you have massive gurdwara with the large outdoor green area for those kabaddi tournaments.

The UK is largely a post Christian society. The institution of religion has been broken down over the past few decades for the British whites. How would you suggest that Gurdwaras adapt. Are Sangat attendances down? Gurudware are packed over the weekends (though this could be due to the akhand paths, sukhmani paths and Anand Karajs taking place)and with the numerous Gurpurabs, Band Chor Divas and Vaisakhi. If you go to the Gurdwarae during the weekday, you'd be surprised how much Sangat there is at different times of the day. Our congregation operates very differently to the Judeo Christian one.