jkvlondon

truth is we all need to collect the families' accounts for ourselves... and send copies to worldwide locations so that it cannot be grabbed up and hidden.

veera Punjab'ch sadde varge leh ad kanoon rakheiya jaladan ne , te ohne le hor ...they released that police officer Pinky after only serving 7 years after he killed how many people and our brothers are still in jails 30 years on for no murders just being Gursikhs with aankh.

denouncing their 'sikh' connection has to be the order of the day and highlighting their anti-sikh actions ...that is the only way to route them from punjab voter's mind.

Personally speaking I learnt as much as I could about sikhi first as a child then wondered what the other faiths offered their people in comparison e.g. Naam japna I quickly realised just how blessed and free I was as a seeker of Akal Purakh because I could see the obstacles put in the way of others searching in their paths and it made me keen to share how Akal Purakh wants us to be loved and how naam is above all ...and that is what I have done .I am still learning but I support other friends striving too on their paths. At university my group of friends was mixed in faiths but we would prepare langar veg of course eat together do charcha together then pray in our own ways together. That is what I believe life is meant to be like , all equal in love with Akal Purakh.

Please reconsider your words veer ji Bani guru , guru hai bani , vich bani amrit sare , ...Dasmesh pita ji's bani is gurbani .

NO! we give them Guru Gobind SIngh ji's bani , Guru Granth Sahib ji's bani teach them what Guru ji Said about being truly submissive to Akal Purakh , the best way is to show the truth, the right way, not shut their ears and eyes with hatred through attack. Remember they have no choice once in , blood in , blood out much like a gang.

We know what will happen they will be overwhelmed by Khalsa fauj and become Khalsa too ...my Dad used to say look at the flag Khomeni saw the future ...that's why it looks like a khanda although it is calligraphy of the naam Allah ... Karninama and Rajnama how I pray for the day...Halemi Raj across the globe. Starts with parchaar in all states of India , need to get the two thirds of desperate hearts to Guru ji's charan He also had Guru ji di dehn that when he did Namaz he did darshan of kaaba.

maybe elocution and English lessons for desi parchaariks would be a way out of that mentality ...LOL

veer ji Guru Gobind SIngh ji da hukham is to learn about other peoples faiths and languages so you can understand their worldview and traditions , of course focus should always remain on Gurbani and all learned material should be judged in light of that . Khalsa are of the universe and as such accept all peoples and understand all whilst remaining niarey .

I know about Holland but he didn't have access to this manuscript and I am sure that he too would agree there are many errors and omissions in the history too.In fact The muslims do not like him at all since he has questioned/examined their history. I believe Hazrat Mohammed existed but earlier and lived in Petra not Mecca . Mecca was not a major trading place as it was way off the normal trade routes but now has become a super money maker for the tribals who own the land , who did not accept Islam at the time of the prophet but much much later after 3rd Caliph ...interesting that.

at the time of Uttman there were already 11 versions of the handwritten quran , however he collected ALL known writings and then compiled his quran burnt first hand sources and other versions and declared his as the true quran , my feeling is that he painted the 'Muhhamed ' of his quran in the colours of his own personal desires because historically and archaelogically speaking the early mosques all pointed to Petra not Mecca and Mohammed only had a maximum following of about 250 people after the quran was dictated (Mecca one) ...his name was not documented anywhere until after Uttman so ...one can either say Mohammed lived earlier in petra than is claimed and a fictious account is made of his life to justify the tribal ways of Arabs or The author was someone else and the Mohammed was the usurper of the message. Anyways Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru tera sabh sadka ....

the Torygraph will be commited to following the UK govt's propaganda drive due to India's Govt push and blackmail about possible loss of trade deals. so don't be too surprised

the manuscript contains fragments of quranic suras ...since the official revelations of the Quran 'starts' closer to 600AD this manuscript does predate that 'history'

Mohhamed is born 570AD had revelation around 610AD set up community in Medina in 622AD and the parchment is dated 568AD forty-two years prior to 'official' dates of Islam being revealed and founded.

But it would be a very pakhandi Baba or 'sant' who would say anything against Sikhi parchaar if it is done with the right intentions and depth of knowledge .

Has to be much more than just one group ...every gursikh should be sharing sikhi ...I know that veer ji has started a parcharik training program ...I think maybe if it was moved to an online model too then more individual's would be able to get to that level informally to help spread Sikhi via friends and family route.

ashutosh is laying in a freezer so when is this video from cos it must be ages old ...in the first vid I saw they showed Balbir SIngh couldn't get up for himself ...the only person sitting higher was asu rest were on floor ...anyhoo Guru ji knows the hearts of Men we can only guess at the true story. frankly I respect him as Guru's kirtaniya and sewak , if Sant ji gave him high regard who am I to question his spiritual life ?

I am educated but I have four kids ... I think first things first get rid of daaj expectation amongst the middle and working classes then everyone will not mind daughters by promoting Dasmesh pita's words jo sikh daaj mangey jas leve oh mera sikh nahin. We are selling our sons like bhed bakri in the market's it is shameful. the other thing is the push for careers means girls will have one or two kids max because husband's families don't want to lose the cash that is being earnt. So push for grands taking more responsibility to ensure their grandkids are brought up in sikhi, perhaps offering sikh daycare centres. The biggest need is for universal parchaar for punjabis, and other Indians especially down south in Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Kanada, Bihar ( we could start by doing bihari parchaar amongst those in punjab working the fields ) we need to work on the idea that SIkhi has no CASTE COLOUR RACE NATION it is for all. There is also massive ecological problems that need to be addressed the killing/poisoning of the soil by synthetic fertilizer, pollution of water table by effluence, uranium from factories etc , the hygiene is lessening everywhere leading to greater disease spreads. There is both a brain drain and a sikhi drain ...I know my cousins have settled abroad because that say it is easier to be gursikh there then in the pinds of Punjab

True , because Guru ji had only allowed marriage to Mata ji because she insisted that she would do sewa of Guru ji and panth rather than go home with her Father , she had no children so Guru ji put Khalsa panth in her cholee to be her children.

I think Brother you need to calm down and stop thinking from your casteist standpoint , How dare you Question Guru Sahib on decision of giving GuruGaddi to Guru Harkrishan Ji , you should be ashamed of yourself if you truly are the Guru's Sikh for saying that. What ever happens is with Akal Purakh's intention behind it . How do you know maybe last time around you were one of those high caste people and misused others thus have been put in your karmic place now ? Whatever it is , Guru ji has given the true way out by taking Amrit , so why do you still insist on using a special title for yourself ...you are a sikh FULL STOP no pre-condition, no post condition . My ancestors may have been jat doesn't mean that is all I can be ...I am NOT a Hindu to be tied to Manusmitri and its vile anti-dharmic attitudes , I am DasMesh Pita ji di beti and I am all-in -one I do my own dirty work and respect all , none are above me, none below , All are my siblings and I have been given sovereignity over my own destiny by Guru ji

I started to , but them I knew that someone may question about the info ...so left the text full ...truth is we should all recognise Ranjit SIngh's failings were that he didn't enforce the rules for the future. enforce Khalsa rehit on those who claimed to be sikhs of the Guru . What would you think of someone who dressed and talked like a sikh until it came to the crunch then they went according to hindu customs? RSS da banda probably. Some of his sons and their Sikh mentors could see the dangers but too late . Maharaja Ranjit SIngh for got Guru Gobind SIngh's bachan to not let any other lead in SIkh matters... if you read Guru ji's bachans and follow them ...even if you a handful you can defeat a nation, look at Hari Singh Nalwa: his victory in Afghanistan was with a small group of soldiers . It wasn't to be because we travelled away from Guru ji's advice and that's it ....we want to be successful we have to follow Guru ji fully .

it proved the role of Hindus in the demise and betrayal of sikhs yet again

the biggest players in the demise of SIkh control of the Khalsa Army were the DOGRAs: One group of Dogra Hindus converted to Sikhism, led by Dhyan Singh Dogra but following Hindu customs. Ranjit Singh did not enforced Khalsa code of conduct on anyone, often his friends and peers did things to please him which included adding Singh to their names, keeping five symbols of Sikhs, etc. Dhyan Singh Dogra played a very strange role in Sikh history. He originally belonged to Jammu. He came to Lahore in search of job and with his hard work and ability he rose to the top. Maharaja Ranjit Singh made him prime minister of Sarkar Khalsa. Then he also got his brothers inducted in different departments in Sarkar Khalsa. Soon Dogras had all the administration of state, things like treasury, finance, etc. Then the other group was led by noblemen of Lahore which were both Muslims and Hindus, leaders being Azizudin brothers. This group led departments like foreign affairs, medicine and science under Sarkar Khalsa. It is owed to diplomacy of F aqir Azizudeen that Ranjit Singh got Kohinoor diamond from Afghani king. Third group was comprised of Sikh noblemen from all over Punjab, leaders like Dhanna Singh Malwai, Majhithia brothers, Sandhawalia brothers, Ahluwalias, Ramgarhias, Virks of Sheikhupura, Bajwas of Narowal, etc. This group was mostly involve in defense of state, it was divided into foot soldiers, cavalry, support troops and Artillery. Cavalry was all Sikhs while foot soldiers included mercenaries hired from all over India. Artillery was in command of capable Punjabi leader named Mian Ghaus Khan. Support troops were soldiers in charge of support lines, etc. This efficient machinery worked well under Ranjit Singh and Punjab was on its way to prosperity. Army was totally separated from state affairs, Ranjit Singh had designed and implemented an ingenious system for this purpose. Army democratically elected five membersPanches, they decided on all the matters vis-�-vis state, etc. British did not dared attacked Punjab as long as Ranjit Singh lived. Ranjit Singh counterchecked British by hiring several Frenchmen for his important defense portfolios. Ranjit Singh's biggest oversight was perhaps inability to have fully prepared one of his sons to take over his kingdom. When Ranjit Singh died, Kharak Singh, his eldest son became Maharaja. Kharak Singh was 50 years old at this time. He lacked the down to earth personality of his father. Kharak Singh was a heavy opium eater. He totally neglected state affairs and got himself immersed in wine, opium, drinking and womanizing. At this time Prime minister was still Dhyan Singh. His son Naunihal Singh though, was a favorite with army. He fought in several battles and was posted as a governor of North West Frontier province at this time. Maharaja Ranjit Singh had earlier married Naunihal Singh with daughter of Sardar Sham Singh Attariwala. Dogra brothers, Dhyan Singh, Suchet Singh and Gulab Singh were in total control of administration at this time. Dhyan Singh's son Hira Singh was also a favorite of Maharaja Ranjit Singh just like Naunihal Singh(his own grandson). Maharaja Had given him a title "Farzand-e-Khas", or "a special son". It was rumored that Dhyan Singh wanted Hira Singh, his son to become Maharaja of Punjab and thus he started his manipulations. Kharak Singh, the new maharaja did not trusted Dogra brothers and started neglecting them. His mentor was one Chet Singh Bajwa who was also his childhood teacher. Kharak Singh started interfering with affairs concerning state, which were under the jurisdiction of Dogra brothers. Ranjit Singh had earlier looked after all matters himself and had only given some liberty to Dogra brothers while keeping them in check. Ranjit Singh's ability to not trust anyone blindly played a major role in day to day administration of state af fairs. Most of his courtiers were scared to do anything wrong. But during the time of Kharak Singh, everything was changed. Dogra suspected that Chet Singh was responsible for their removal from state affairs. Dogras brothers Gulab Singh and Suchet Singh got together and decided to remove Chet Singh Bajwa and then subdue Kharak Singh. One night when Chet Singh was sleeping in same palace where Maharaja Kharak Singh lived, Suchet Singh Dogra along with Gulab Singh entered the palace and hacked Chet Singh to pieces. Dogra brothers now changed servants of palace and administer a slow poison (mercury) in food to Maharaja Kharak Singh. His son Naunihal Singh who suspected treachery of Dogras did not returned to Lahore until Maharaja Kharak Singh died. All this time Dhyan Singh Dogra was faithful to the Maharaja Ranjit Singh's family. Naunihal Singh came back to Lahore to fulfill his obligation to cremate the body of his father Maharaja Kharak Singh and as well as to become a new maharaja. Dhyan Singh Dogra declared Naunihal Singh a new maharaja. On the same day when the party was returning from cremation ground, a large block of concrete from Archway fell on top of Naunihal Singh. It is said that he was not hurt bad and was able to walk himself but still Gulab Singh Dogra insisted on getting a palki. Two days later Dhyan Singh Dogra declared that Naunihal Singh had died due to complications of his injury. Even Naunihal Singh's mother and wife were not allowed to meet him after injury. English doctor that operated on Naunihal Singh testified to British author Macauliffe that initially Naunihal Singh did got some injury on head and he applied bandages but next day when he went to see Naunihal Singh his head was totally crushed and bandages were changed, he was not br eathing. Dhyan Singh Dogra now proclaimed other son of Ranjit Singh named Sher Singh as Maharaja of Punjab. Sher Singh was very popular with army, he was a good person but not a shrewd politician. His Chief minister Dhyan Singh Dogra, a trusted friend of Ranjit Singh was an intelligent minister, i.e. vazir. He could not sense a treachery by his brothers Suchet Singh and Gulab Singh. Meanwhile, Sandhawalia Sardars Ajit Singh, Lehna Singh and Attar Singh who had inimical relations with Sher Singh and Dhyan Singh Dogra, fearing them run away from Lahore and joined British. In Sher Singh, Punjab got a maharaja who was handsome, dandy and knew more about wine and women then state affairs. Two years later, Sandhanwalia brothers sent a letter to Maharaja Sher Singh that they wanted to return to their motherland. Sher Singh obliged and gave them permission to return to Punjab. It is widely believed that Dogra bro thers Suchet Singh and Gulab Singh were behind Sandhanwalia's return from United provinces. Sher Singh gave them good ranks in army and i t looked in the beginning as Sandhawalia brothers were pleased. Sher Singh had a ten years old son named Pertap Singh. One day when Sher Singh was inspecting his troops, Ajit Singh Sandhawalia asked permission to show him how to fire a new gun he had got from British. Sher Singh allowed and Sandhawalia fired at him,Sher Singh could only say "aah ki Daga", "what treachery?." At the same time, Lehna Singh Sandhawalia killed Ten years old Pertap Singh. Sher Singh had good relations with Dogra brothers as well as Khalsa Army. Dhyan Singh Dogra who was about a mile away when all this was happening reached there with 25 of his troops. Sandhawalia brothers Ajit Singh and Lehna Singh killed Dhyan Singh Dogra, cut his body into different pieces and hung all over Lahore City. Gulab Sing h Dogra brother of Dhyan Singh Dogra along wit h Sarkar Khalsa attacked Sandhanwalia's citade l. Sandhawalia brothers had got themselves shut in fort with about 500 of their supporters. But enraged Khalsa Army attacked and killed both Sandhanwalia brothers on spot. While all this was going on, other Dogra Brother named Suchet Singh got 22 carts load of Khalsa treasury through the back door and transported it on its way to Batala and then subsequently to Jammu. Gulab Singh Dogra now openly supported making his son a Maharaja of Punjab. He even asked Maharani Chand Kaur, widow of Ranjit Singh to adopt Hira Singh. Khalsa Army and other Sikh noblemen intervened and made youngest son of Ranjit Singh, born of Maharani Jindan, and named Dilip Singh, a 5 years old boy, new Maharaja of Punjab with Hira Singh Dogra as new prime minister. Few days later, Maharani Chand Kaur was found murdered on her bed, her head crushed. It was suspected that Gulab Singh Dogra got her killed since she refused to adopt Hira Singh. Peshaura Singh and Kashmira Singh, elder sons of Maharaja Ranjit Singh questioned the validity of 5 year old Dilip Singh Maharaja of Punjab, but with any effect. Hira Singh appointed Tej Singh Dogra and Lal Singh Dogra as general of Khalsa army. So now, the command of Khalsa army was passed from Sikh generals to Hindu generals, only one Sikh general named Ranjodh Singh Majithia remained at highest command level. Even though able generals like Sham Singh Attari were always there but never considered for top posts. It is believed that Dogra Brothers were responsible for appointing generals so that to keep negotiations open with British during war, which increasingly was becoming inevitable. British forward post was in Ferozepur and then at Jalandhar and Ambala being another major cantonments. British requested Hira Singh to allow transport of Afghani women to Afghanistan through Punjab under Major Wolcroft . Hira Singh obliged and supplied som e of Punjabi troops for escort. Major Wolcroft was a paranoid major and on more then one occasion he ordered his troops to fire at Punjabi troops. Later British Governor General apologized for his behavior. Hira Singh Dogra and his advisor, one Brahmin named Jalla had whole administration in their hands, Maharaja Dilip Singh was just a figurative head of state. Hira Singh uncle Suchet Singh Dogra did not liked Jalla and asked for his removal. He came to Lahore along with his general Rai Kesari Singh and camped at mausoleum of Mian Wadda, outside city. Hira Singh Dogra was irked at the suggestion of his uncle for removal of Pundit Jalla and he ordered Punjabi Troops to storm their citadel of Mian Wadda. Suchet Singh and Rai Kesari Singh were killed. Hira Singh Dogra then broke down on sight of his uncle's bullet ridden body and give him a huge funeral. At the same time, two camps were seen emerging, one at Sarkar Khalsa at Lahore and other little bit away close to Batala under Bhai Bir Singh. Many Sikh Sardars like Majhitias, Attariwala were although loyal to Sarkar Khalsa at Lahore but in communications with Bhai Bir Singh. Attar Singh Sandhawalia who had earlier fled to Thanesar, slipped into Punjab and came to Bhai Bir Singh's camp. Bhai Bir Singh welcomed him and assured him that he will be made Maharaja of Punjab. Soon Prince Kashmir Singh and prince Peshaura Singh also joined Bhai Bir Singh and supported Attar Singh Sandhawalia on his bid for kingship. So mostly Sikhs who were against Dogras got themselves under Bhai Bir Singh, thus creating two camps of Dogras vs. Sikhs. More then 70% of Punjab's army under Hira Singh Dogra was Khalsa or pure Sikh. Hira Singh Dogra through his promises of more salary, and gifts of gold for each soldier manage to keep most of them with him, and above all king of Punjab was still a Khalsa Sikh child named Dilip Singh., to whom army was loyal. Hira Singh reminded army of the murders of PrinceSher Singh by Sandhawalia brothers and how Attar Singh had fled Punjab after his brothers were killed by army. Then in an apparent move to win over Khalsa of Sarkar Khalsa army, Bhai Bir Singh invited army at his camp for a feast. More then 5000 goats were sacrificed for this party. Attar Singh Sandhawalia in a fit of rage over an argument fired on one of the Sikh officers named Attar Singh Kalkattia killing him on spot. A riot followed in which one by one Bhai Bir Singh's other guests were murdered by Army. Bhai Bir Singh died, as well as Attar Singh Sandhawalia and prince Kashmira Singh. The main culprit for this riot was one battalion under major Croft one of the foreign officers employed by Sarkar Khalsa. His batt alion was aptly named "Gurumar". Hira Singh Dogra understood the grave mistake and apologized for the murders of princes and Bhai Bir Singh to Army as well as whole nation. On April 9, 1944 a huge earthquake hit Amritsar and Lahore, and was believed to be a sign of bad luck by general populace British forward post at Ferozepur was being strengthened and by all means it looked like that whole of Punjab was under preparation of war. Ambala and Jalandhar cantonments were tripled with reinforcements and new recruits from Bengal, Awadh and Bihar. Hira Singh Dogra although fearing British knew that war was inevitable. Millions of Punjabis left central Punjab and settled in other states which were protectorate of British, like Patiala, Faridkot, Nabha and Jind. Hira Singh Dogra mobilized Punjabi troops to Kasur which was directly opposite Ferozepur. Sooner both armies were directly oppose to each other. In December of 1944, Henry Harding took over as Governor general of India. He was called Tunda Lat Or One armed lord. He sent his officers to Ferozepur and Punjabis fearing attack put on a vigil for 24 hours a day. But no attack came and standstill was averted. Then came the second round of intrigues between Dogras and Sikhs. Pundit Jalla, accused Maharani Jindan of illicit relations with one Misr Lal Singh (not general). This created a furore all over kingdom as she was mother of king Dilip singh. Enraged Maharani Jindan was summoned to army panches as well as Hira Singh Dogra and Pundit Jalla. Couple days earlier, Hira Singh Dogra had dismissed 500 of army soldiers without pay and thus he feared worst. Maharani Jindan with her son Dilip Singh and brother Jawahar Singh came to cantonment, while Hira Singh Dogra and Pundit jalla sent advance horsemen to his uncle Gulab Singh at Jammu for help. Gulab Singh sent 1000 horsemen, and Hira Singh and Jalla came out of their palace and slowly and quietly crossed river Ravi from Shahdra and were on their way to Jammu with more crores of treasury. Khalsa army pursued them and caught them about 14 miles away from city. Mian Labh Singh, their general give a good figh t but all 1000 dogras were massacred. P undit Jalla, Hira Singh Dogra and their accomplice faced wrath of Khalsa army, their heads were put up on city streets of Lahore. Then Diwan Deena Nath, aristocrat of Lahore took charge of the situation and appointed Lal Singh as Chief minister of Punjab, Tej Singh as commander of Army and Dilip Singh as Maharaja of Punjab. Punjabi Khalsa army was a much larger and stronger force and at this time British were still mobilizing their forces from Ambala and other places. Instead of attacking Ferozepur, Lal Singh waited for four months by then British forces were three times stronger then the Khalsa army. It is said that Lal Singh had already negotiated with British and supplied them with position of guns, number of soldiers, plan of attack and other vital statistics. Let's read about Anglo-Sikh wars in depth. Intrigue of Dogra brothers for their own selfish means and inability of any Sikh politicians to lead was responsible for demise of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's Sarkar Khalsa. After Anglo-Sikh Wars, Dogras Got whole Kashmir (until 1947 then it was divided between India and Pakistan), British got Punjab and Sikhs lost their hard earned kingdom. In fact they sent mustard seed instead of gunpowder requested to the troops going up against the British forces and to ensure that no-one would come back alive by destroying the bridges on the way behind the relief artillery caravan. SO yes Hindus had a lot of hand in why the raj fell and the murder of multiple kings and queens, the exile of Maharani Jind Kaur and the kidnap of Maharaja Dalip SIngh. What did they get in return for this Kashmir ....

so Gurmat sangeet wasn't altered and damaged by introduction of harmonium ... the mudslinging of british commentators on Our banis wasn't imitated and taken to more subtle levels by the more knowledgeable bahmins ? who taught Bahmins divide and conquer through subterfuge , misdirection and not honouring treaties made ? That the nihangs were removed from their central roles in sikh affairs which the British had brought to pass something that Hindus hadn't managed successfully until that point. I could be wrong so enlighten me