MisterrSingh

Anecdotally there's a LOT of cases where UK born Sikh girls (the decent, homely sorts) who've had rishte and got married to guys from back home who came over on study / work permits, who are now getting divorced or have returned to their mum and dad's home (I.E. the home they grew up in) when they realised the Sikh guy from Punjab there were married to is a heavy drug user who is out partying with his desi mates on weekends and sending most of his earnings back home. I've heard of SO many instances where this is happening now, it's very unfortunate.

Do you mean the parents of the Punjabi guys? The ones from back home? Yeah, I can appreciate that. What these parents don't understand that sometimes you've gotta hustle and do what it takes. But if the guys are marrying these foreign girls knowing they're going to chuck them eventually but these girls genuinely believe the marriage is for keeps, that's paap IMO. They're being strung along and then hung out to dry, and that's not right. There's going to be an underclass of fatherless half-white half-Sikh kids running around in a few years, getting themselves into all kinds of unsavoury situations, especially when the mothers will move onto the next boyfriend. The kids will grow up resenting the fathers that deserted them as kids, and the mums won't let them forget it. I'm not an expert on visa and residency issues, but from what I can gather any Punjabi looking to get residency in the UK via study or work permits is gonna be seriously disappointed. The govt has cracked down the last time I heard. So, it's either go home or find a UK citizen to marry.

Yep, agree with that. That's why I actually suspect there's a few of these marriages that are the real deal. Fair play to our desi cousins, they've got the patter down to a fine art, lol.

Course not. Most, if not all, the guys from back home in these situations are clean shaven. Sikhi is not a consideration in these situations, although I won't generalise. These guys want to be become permanent residents, and will do whatever it takes. My guess is a fair percentage of these marriages between European girls and immigrant Sikhs will end in divorce, and the guy will return to the pind to get married "proper." Not denying there's a few cases where it might be genuine love though.

Not to worry. Focus.

Keep it up.

And then a lengthy prison sentence for using those shashters. Self defence is one thing, but going to town on Abdul because he was checking some Sikh girl is a bad idea. You know the courts will spin it as "Insecure Sikh guy can't handle Sikh females having fun with non-Sikhs."

All that from just one spiked drink? I assume it was Diet Coke too. I'm beginning to think some of us are going hyper on the white knighting in these situations. We are unwittingly absolving some of these girls who relish playing with fire of all responsibility when they get burnt. Not in all situations BTW.

I see. Good to look at these things from a different perspective. Those points above make sense. Nevertheless, it underpins my original argument that if the first thing to go when a marriage breaks down is the dastaar, then the reasons for following Sikhi were not the strongest to begin with. Personally, I'd imagine 4 is the hardest to take. Loss of faith vs. a complete rejection of the faith through resentment is a huge difference. 1 - 3 would all probably lead to the scenario I suggested, I.E. "I'll show you religious so-and-so's by hitting you where it hurts." Or so they think.

I gave it above. I can't make it any clearer.

That's great for you. I was just positing a possible theory based on my experience of certain female minds, heh.

this act of discarding the dastaar by the female is a rather telling look into the minds of the girls who do this, and how they generally perceive Sikhi. Whether they act like this knowingly or not is up for debate. My theory is that when something like this occurs, the girl or woman is making a statement which says, "I relinquish this symbol of masculinity; the same masculinity that I hold responsible for the end of my marriage." It's an act of rebellion or something done out of anger to "hurt" the faceless and nameless Sikh male collective IMO. Of course, it unwittingly exposes the fact that the female was wearing a dastaar and following Sikhi for all the wrong reasons. That's the biggest tragedy, I.E. she fails to realise the dastaar has nothing to do with her woes. It's similar to when western women undergo a relationship breakup, and they get a new hairdo or change something about their appearance in a drastic manner in order to symbolise a new beginning by discarding the remnants of their past. Quite sad that Sikhi is viewed as an accessory or something to be jettisoned when things turn sour, when it's nothing of the sort.

Take it up with the admins, bro. Rules iz rules.

This is fascinating stuff. So, in brief, the khatri Sikhs of Delhi that were on the receiving end of the anti-Sikh pogroms of 84 originated from the old way "First son of Hindu becomes a Sikh"? But that kind of system was never part of life for Sikhs of the Punjab?

OT, but same here (my mum), a direct relation of the mother of the Shaheed actually. As a kid, the things I use to hear about him and other Shaheeds after they'd passed would send a shiver down the spine (all great things of course).

#JattLivesMatter.

Hypothetically speaking, how amusing would it be if Das Paatshaiya manifested during one of these summits where every leader / Sant from the myriad Jathas were present, and Guru Sahib asked them, "It's me (they are One after all) or your Jatha. Take your pick." How quickly these shrewd and clever men would scramble to disassociate themselves with the groups and sects they've cultivated over the decades! Gone in a flash.

Wonderful stuff on the part of the Sikh. May Guru Sahib bless him and others like him with even more prem for Sikhi. Best not to say anything about those who rejected him coz I'll probably be banned. Disgusting, infuriating behaviour.

Some of the blame lies with the audience too. Try making a Punjabi film minus any melodrama or songs - even on a subject such as the attempted genocide of a entire race of people - and do you anticipate the old uncles and aunties will go and see such a film? Sad but true.

Give these same producers a subject matter such as the Holocaust in WW2 or the Rwandan genocide, and they'll still see fit to put their "unique" stamp on it. It's just quick money spinners now that they've realised there's an appetite for such films.

Best thing you've ever said (or written) on this site. Not j4cking off has its benefits!

In India and wherever else Indian influence reaches, the danger of the Hindutva cause to Sikhs cannot be underestimated. The thing is they're quite subtle about it, so the danger seems less imminent or serious. They're content to play the long game, gently chipping away over years and decades as we've seen with the gradual attempts at distorting Sikhi and confounding the Sikh population in Punjab. What they do isn't smart or stealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but it's smart enough for our ignorant minds not to resist. They've taken a page out of the old American social conditioning / subterfuge book that the likes of the CIA used against the blacks back in the day, and are hitting us on many fronts such as the obvious religious, political and social, but others such as popular culture which is where we are being hurt the most IMO. Islamic radicalism can be spotted a mile away. We've only ourselves to blame if we can't resist their surges into our territory, figuratively speaking.

In my experience, the youngsters are following in the same footsteps as their elders; they just seem to be taking the longer and scenic route, when in actuality they'll end up arriving at the same destination as the oldies they hold with little regard. Again, in my experience, Sikh youngsters - on the whole - resist challenges to their worldview or opinions on various matters that they've happened to learn or heard from... yep, the oldies who run things. These naujwaan refuse to concede there MAY be an alternative way of looking at a situation, or that, God forbid, they might be wrong. Does that sound familiar? Coupled with a worringly anti-intellectual streak as if being even a bit educated denotes a weaker belief and less stringent adherence to Sikhi (although to be fair when our lot get their degrees and titles they are the first to sell out, lol), the only type of person who'll find himself rising to the summit in these religious environments is the tub-thumping demagogue for whom attributes such as conciliation, patience, and foresight are seen as symbols of pappuism. I'm afraid, in modern day Sikhi at least, the young will continue to emulate the old. Just look at yesterday's threads where the various ding-dongs were occurring. Those debates were as old as the hills, yet the participants were supposedly of this hopeful new generation. What does that tell you? Sadly, any jewel who does shine and somehow find himself or herself ahead of the pack in these matters will be swamped by the trailing pack who desire conformity, control, and the safety of the old ways. There is no room for originality in organised religion, not as a force for positivity, at least.