Kira

I wonder if these sort of debates take place in India, in the few places where Sikhi is thriving.

That sound's rough man,I hope you're ok now I think it's a matter of how it affects someone. There are certain substances which universally affect everyone. But with caffeine i've noticed affects certain people in different ways. Like it was mentioned before certain Mahapurkhs avoided it while others didn't. These beings all had their reasons for doing such. Some people are strongly affected by it and can't function without it, that in itself is indeed an addiction. While others aren't. On a personal note Caffeine has a rather negative effect on me. Consumption of it induces instant drowsiness in me so I have a tendency to avoid it. I don't eat much as it is lol. Caffeine is a drug, but in essence anything has the possibility to be a drug (food-wise). Avoid it if you think it's murdering your life.

It was brave of you to openly admit this. The first step in every problem is admitting you have that problem. I bet there are some Sikhs who are looking at this thread who are in the same boat as you, my friend. BY making it you may have given them some sort of solace lol

If memory serves right it was the Udasi that ended up looking after the Gurudwara, but that may have just been due to Baba Sri Chand and Baba Gurditta's lineage and link to Guru Sahib's family. Hindu-Sikhs are about as logical as a Christian-Muslim.

The reason the names of god are added to these Devi/Devta is because their own ego made them take them. Brahma calling himself all knowing, Vishnu calling himself blotless etc etc This video explains why calling these gods and goddesses these names isn't the same as worshiping god. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rh2KzeJJZ0 If you want to start twisting the Sakhi of Ajameel and use it to justify it following these imperfect beings then let's now use Bhagat Dhanna's story to worship stones too, It's a constant lack of insight into the meaning of these stories that people seem to forget. You may as well start praying to a chair or something as God is indiscriminately present in all. There isn't more god in one place or another. The people people who's seva is worthwhile is that of Akaal Purkh and his saints. Calling anything other than god and giving them characteristics is the most foolhardy thing someone can do. Why call Shiva the destroyer when he can be destroyed? Why call Vishnu the Preserver when the Lord God is the one doing that? Why refer to Brahma as all knowing when the only being who is all knowing is Waheguru. These are names the gods starts referring to themselves as, or people did. Like it or not you're worshiping the gods not Akaal Purkh. The same way bowing to a stone is idol worship and nothing else. People should just read the Sri Dasam Granth Ji and see the actual nature of these gods and goddess. Rather than trying to twist and warp Sikh philosophy just read passages from that. Akaal Purkh made it abundantly clear (yes I said Akaal Purkh as there is a section where the words of the divine lord is actually eulogized) what these gods and goddesses are doing and why worshiping them is completely wrong.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji beautifully wrote in Chaupai Sahib. ta ko kar pahn anumant maha moorh kcho bhaid na jant mahadaiv ko keht sda siv nirankar ka chint neh bhiv. (16) The fools consider Him a stone, for He does not know the Profound Mysterym that is God. He calls Shiva, The Eternal Lord, and does not know the secret of the Formless Lord. (16) I apologize for the lack of Gurmukhi. Guru Sahib also mentions in the Pure Bani of Japji Sahib about the various Realms. One such realm is the Realm of Gyan (or Spiritual Knowledge). The Pauri Beautifully illustrates how these powerful beings are still bound Maya, that Brahma,Vishnu,Shiva. There are countless numbers of them. But then Guru Sahib goes on and describes those who are fortunate enough to be blessed with the name. If we're to go by the order of the Realms, Karam Khand where the Devotees of the Lord reside, is far closer and far higher up than Gods and Goddesses. To a Sikh they should be of no importance. Regarding your Pauri about the one divine mother. I hadn't heard that interpretation of that, that actually has helped me understand some things I was struggling with. Mine has always been that The Divine Mother is referring to Akaal Purkh and the giving of the birth is referring to 3 of his countless aspects. The 3 most people seem to stress over. Creation, Sustaining and Destroying. That was beautifully written.

I was speaking broadly. I would concur in this case the blame rests on them all. in my humble opinion, while I confess I'm not an expert on the social effect of immigration, I feel the bigger the community the more we seem to develop this drive to move up the hierarchy which builds itself up. You get the usual professions. Doctor, Lawyer etc But with the surge of Sikh Pride now sweeping the western amongst those who have moved here, it seems Gurudwara Chief has joined that rank. People seem to treat it more like a trophy and something to parade around. They see Modi, the Prime Minister of India. Imagine the dinner conversations that could be directed to yourself. Imagine the sense of awe people would have towards you as you narrate in explicit detail how you shook the hand of the Prime Minister of India.

Not an expert but I'm isn't it a sin for Jewish children to eat any meat other than Kosher? Or is Kosher just a term im throwing around too casually.

Well mine have only just started. I suffered from a reoccuring dream as a Child, Akaal Purkh's protection (since I upped the amount of prayers i do) has helped me stop them. These dreams occurred once or twice for me. Never regularly, honestly glad to be honest. The Concept of premonition scares me. Akaal Purkh works in thy own way. I don't think im all that pure lol. Very flawed, dunno about the Bhaji above but I am aware spiritually enlightened beings are able to see into the future regularly. Some of us Paapi might be blessed by the Divine father every now and then. Before my birth my dad spoke of a Sant that predict some pretty scarily accurate things about me. Even predicted I would be a guy and everything.

There was Charan Amrit from the Guru Sahibs. The concept of Amrit was always there. The Story you're referring to is a bit mixed up my friend. Guru Gobind Singh Ji was approached by a Pandit who said he could summon Durga for Guru Sahib to grant him victory in all Battles. Guru Sahib replied that The Ultimate Power (Akaal Purkh Ji) was already someone he bowed to for Victory and no one else. The Pandit insisted to do this Pooja so Guru Sahib let him conduct his ritual/Pooja. Guru Sahib provided the Pandit with everything he needed for it, After many days Guru Sahib inquired why the Goddess still hadn't appeared. The Pandit thought he'd be smart and try a clever trick. He said that to summon the Goddess they had to sacrifice one of high birth, he was going to ask for one of the Sahibzade. Guru Sahib Ji simply smiled and said there was no one of higher birth than the Pandit, so let's sacrifice the Pandit. Hearing these words the Pandit became distressed and Objected. but Guru Sahib assured him that once the Goddess appeared he'd simply ask her to bring him back to life. The Pandit then started fearing for his life and fled. He told Guru Sahib that he was going for a bath and then left. Guru Sahib (being all knowing) let him flee and had his Sikhs put all the other items and other stuff (the ghee and you know other ritual related stuff) thrown into the Fire that was lit (as per tradition of all Hindu Pooja). The flames produced were so big and it created such a massive spectacle People thought the Devi had come. Guru Sahib descended down onto the gathering masses (this was all taking place on a hill I should probably mention) and had his Sword out. He proclaimed to people that the Sword before him was Durga who obliterated Tyrants, Chandi who drank the blood of her enemies, the destroyer of all Evil. No Devi did appear, It was Guru Sahib once again showing us that sitting around and begging for other forces to assist us is pointless. We should Beg only Akaal Purkh and shouldn't be sitting idle by as Tyrants run rampant. We as Sikhs should be fighting them in any shape and form we can. I think I may have gotten some of the details mixed up but that's the main points of the story -Pandit does Pooja, tries to summon a goddess - tries foolishly to trick the 10th Master - fails and flees - Guru Sahib proves to us that we shouldn't be sitting around for someone else to vanquish our enemies, we should do it ourselves. there was an excellent post by another user that told this story very beautifully. I'll try and find it for you. Worshiping the Hindu Gods isn't same as worshiping Akaal Purkh. Gurbani made this clear and Guru Gobind Singh Ji (using the exact words of Waheguru thyself) further made the nature of these gods clear. Why they exist and what they are doing.

It doesn't help when people paste picture of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Bibi Nanaki ji tying it. Guru Nanak never wore a single thread on his hand, nor did any other of our Masters and their blessed Sikhs. Alas...We're going still chasing after pointless,mundane practices.

Bhaji. With all Due respect. These Devi-Devta play a little role in the running of the Creation. Akaal Purkh thyself creates and Akaal Purkh thyself destroys when he wishes. Akaal Purkh Sustains and Akaal Purkh tears down. In Benti Chaupai the 10th Lord makes that clear in the Pauri regarding when God expands creation comes forth and when he absorbs all within him Creation is destroyed. The Gods aand Goddess, from my understanding of the Bachitar Natak came after creation. Akaal Purkh created them but they themselves became so absorbed in the Worship of Power that they forget their creator. In my humblest Opinion. The gods are nothing more than extremely powerful beings that Mahakaal blessed with Power. The Jobs that many people attribute to Brahma,Vishnu,Shiva are all being done by the Lord. The dogs are entangled in Maya like the rest of us.

While we're on this topic. I have (a handful of times) had strange dreams which sort of allude to what was going to happen to me in the next day. They weren't 100% precise. But almost perfect recounts of what was to happen

The Amount of Simran is only beneficial if one tries their utmost to focus.

Their called Doors, not holes. Their meant to be sense links, The Yogic techniques of India were very reliant on them I believe. Take it symbolically, the most important Door is the 10th one. The hidden door, the link to god.

Final Question. I understand many of the Sangat have strong feelings towards some of the issued Hukams. So Let me just affirm some examples. Person 1: I disgree with the Akal Takhat's Hukamnama - insert reasons here- But I understand it is my moral obligation to uphold it. Person 2 - Their wrong, we should completely ignore it. Would person 1 be alright in that sense.

Gurbani is always nice. I'm just confused about it all

A Wasted Opportunity to express our discontentment in India. Once again the Elders of our Community have let a great to make a stance on how Sikhs feel about the Indian Government go to waste because of their precious Pride. Heart-Breaking.

God, Benji. I hadn't even thought of that. So right now People have mistaken me for a woman, an insect and who knows what else. I think I'm the very definition of ambiguous right now. :blush2: I'll keep my eye on you. So how do I go about becoming a MOD and taking part in the Seva. Since I can't really post in the thread you created. Would it be wrong if I asked a question? You said this Forum was Pro-Akal Takhat. Does that mean we're not to discuss the Hukams issued from there? Or does that simply apply to us promoting active defiance for them?

Well Chatanga Ji. I present you with a site to upload your Screenshots. http://imgur.com/ Just upload the Screenshots here and post the links that are generated :D

I swear to all that I love. I will give a slap to the next person who calls me a woman Nah, I'm a guy. Kira refers to the alterego of Light Yagami, the name he used while he was purging the world of Criminals. I was tempted to use Lelouch as well but in my haste to create an account this was the first thing that came into my mind. There are loads of anime forms I'll just make sure Anime fans get some -ahem- PRIVILEGES. No I'm kidding, no favorites. :D I was referring to the central body Which is placed in Sach Khand Sri Harmandir Sahib. I'll add this all of Bani is our Guru, I see wisdom in All Guru Sahib's teaching. There isn't much to shine on I'm afraid. He's known to be very hostile. Usually hostile right off the bat, I agree there are times when we all get so lost in a debate that our ugly side surfaces but that's about it. I agree, one needs basic Knowledge of Sikhism. In terms of taking this debate for example, the ideal mod would simply watch, read and edit those comments which are against forum rules, using very rude and offensive words and most likely issue warnings if the perpetrators don't stop. Bhaji Stop you're making me feel like some sort of Politician now. I refuse to put myself forward but if the Forums demands the rule of Kira to rise, then it shall come. I shall lead this Forum into a new age of wisdom, Good leadership and Okatu. Seriously though. Next person to call me a girl will be put on my hit list.

Why on earth would you need a special day to "remember and honor your sister" Do people simply forget they had a sister until this day. No point adding a Sikh Spin to something so empty and shallow.

There's only one force in this universe I trust completely. Akaal Purkh thyself. I would keep you close and once you rebel I would do what all overlords do. To the Dungeons! Manipulate me? Let me tell you a little about the History I have with various members here. JcafSingh (sorry i got your name wrong ) was someone I debated heavily with, We didn't part being best of friends, we put it in the past and moved forwards, Similar interactions with a couple other members. Anyone who's seen my style of posting knows very well I rarely hand out likes, My "likes" have nothing to do with me being manipulated. Not to sound Arrogant but I've always been a free thinker, my thoughts are mine and mine alone. My actions are mine, No one is forcing me or controlling me like a sick puppet-master. My only Master is Akaal Purkh himself, I am nobodies Underling save his. The only thing influencing me is my love for My Divine Father. As for the debate about the Raagmala, I don't have the audacity to question what is inscribed in the bani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. To me it is absolute. If I find something that I don''t understand, the only thing that is wrong is my stupidity as I can't understand what my master has said. I never consider a foreign element as the complexity of Gurbani is too much for my small intelligence to handle. I have no care for what any Jatha are doing. I don't belong to any Jatha, nor am I a follower of anyone save Guru Sahib. My responsbility as a Sikh is to walk the Path of Guru Sahib, follow his will and spread what I know about Sikhi. Along the way learn more about Sikhi. The same person who you put up there (AkaliFauj) Once called a fellow Sikh sister a rather horrendous term for a woman of questionable characteristics. Unbiased and his name don't go together. I am equally as opinonated. I am equally as Passionate as him. I'm shocked you thought that People were being serious about my candidacy (no idea if they were) since i merely put my name forward as a joke, hence my conversation with MrSingh. Being a mod is hardly about knowing a large amount about Sikh Prachaar. It's about sticking to the rules, being impartial (not taking sides and let's face it, I will take sides and as will almost all the people you put forward) and upholding the rules of the Forums. Though if people really want me as Mod. My Death note is ready, my army of Shinigami are ready. Let my rule begin :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay: :yay:

#Kira4Mod. I don't know about that I'm a bit childish at times. Very impulsive too.

Make me a mod. I promise you, I won't take over and subjugate you all.