dallysingh101

I doubt that. They'll probably just be more devious in trying to practice their racism without being caught in future.

So you're comparing two female lesbians (who if I recall rightly were from outside of England), to a black male who has grown up here. Yeah, real good. Chalk and cheese dude! What's that got to do with my point that people sometimes carry these things for self defence purposes - especially in areas where the likelihood of being attacked is higher. I'm not saying this is a good thing to do, just that it happens. I'm not saying this was a race crime. I'm saying that some people are wary of being caught up in one suddenly. More so with all the ignorance some white people feel they can openly exhibit these days (probably related to brexit in some way?)

Maybe to the perception of the simple minded? There is nothing to obscure. The human psyche can be complex, contradictory thing.

None of us are Waheguru. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be careful in protecting young children from sexual predators.

That's Panth Prakash brother (by Rattan Singh Bhangu) - not Suraj Prakash (which is by Kavi Santokh Singh)

Let's make a practical example of it: Would you personally be okay with someone who has been convicted of grooming and paedophilia say 15 years previously - who claims he is now no longer thus inclined - being around children in your own family? And I'm not being some closeted puppoo neither. I grew up in an area in a time where lots of guys around me went to prison (for violent offences or other hustling type money making), so it's not like I'm in some lala land about life. I've seen some of these become family men in later life (not all), but there is something about sexual predators that seems hardwired. They are heavily opportunistic and devious like I said previously. I think, given all the rampant grooming and stuff that has been going on, we need to be extra careful to protect our community or we fail in our basic obligations as men. Forgiveness is a good thing, but there are limits.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7218007/UKs-senior-Asian-policewoman-suing-Scotland-Yard-racial-gender-discrimination.html#comments

But dasmesh pita also gave authority to the panth to regulate itself. I think we should definitely drawn the line with paedos and rapists. These types of people are also usually sociopaths and psychopaths. They are innately driven to exploit all situations to their advantage and are unable to live by any codes (and they are very devious with it too, they'll portray whatever image required to get in - like RC priests and BBC children programme presenters of the 70s/80s).

I took this quote from a post where you'd quoted BhForce. That's why it looked that way. My bad.

I think we need to be careful. If we are to grow, it will naturally entail nonPanjabis becoming Sikhs - I think it is dangerous to equate this to the issue you are referring to (which is an important, but a separate one).

You hit on something so important here. I think it is a fallacy to think that having adherent parents, or being taught from a young age can heavily influence people in their Sikhi. It can, but it also often doesn't too. There are countless examples of siblings who've grown up one way, but follow completely different paths from each other in adulthood. Look at Bhai Jagraj Singh and his brother Sunny Hundal for example. I'm sure a lot of you see this around you too, even in your own families. Surely we've all seen kids from irreligious families having a strong connection to Sikhi - and we've all seen the opposite too. Look at that paedo groomer Amere Dhaliwal for another example - his grandpa is a pardaan and respected member of the local community - it didn't stop him being a low-life scumbag nonce-case extraordinaire. We have to be realistic and perceptive about such things. Sure, ideally parents should try their very best - but to think this is a guarantee for Sikhi inspired adults just doesn't bear out from what I've seen?

I've got to say. From what I gather, Americans seem less inclined to do this than Brits. It looks like some Americans make more effort to pronounced names correctly?

I truly believe that this one is actually a strategy to improve/widen the gene pool of the white population and avert inbreeding. If you look at the swing from colonial times to now, we've had a complete u-turn (by the English) about the notion that breeding within a community somehow preserves some genetic superiority, to the idea that some diversity in genes improves a society and protects against the negative effects of inbreeding. Those black people's genes have passed a fiery test when goray enslaved them (through genocide, starvation, and physical abuse etc.) that meant that only the seriously strong genes survived. And remember a lot of those genes were already widely seeded by white men (on the sly) on slave ships and plantations - I think they are trying to incorporate them back into their society? It's probably easier to assimilate them in too, compared to us brownies and our 'zany, archaic and exotic beliefs/religion/culture'? lol

Look, I don't condone throwing gay people off buildings or whatever. I've met plenty of gay/bisexual guys over the years who seem to be decent blokes compared to a helluva lot of hetrosexuals. So it's not about hating gays at all (I don't), it's just trying to have clear moorings for Sikh society. I actually have empathy with regard to them being born that way. We as a community just need to have a clear stance on these things (and other things). Everyone is better served that way, including them, who seem to live in some twilight zone in the community right now. But I do point a judgemental finger at some parents though, who I believe should have picked up things about their son's sexuality earlier on, and maybe not push them to be so overtly religious and thus pressured into Sikhi in the first place. I know you can't always tell who is gay, but with some guys it is blatantly obvious from young! I don't think we should we should condone anyone beating them up or torturing them though. Things like their physiognomy (hehehe learnt a new word) and behaviour traits (i.e. campness) give it away sometimes - though with today's younger metrosexual generation it is a bit hard for some more mature folks to tell them apart. Welcome to the 21st century.

How comes so many gay blokes seem so abnormally smiley like this? Or is it just me who has this perception?

Medical student Hannah Bharaj, 20, died after falling from a balcony Her inquest heard she developed anorexia as a result of being highly stressed She was rushed to hospital after the fall but was pronounced dead the day after Her inquest is due to continue for five days in Stockport, Greater Manchester Medical student Hannah Bharaj, pictured with her father Harry, right, fell to her death on July 12 last year having completed her second year of medical studies https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7205149/Student-doctor-suffering-anorexia-fell-death.html

Simple simon has spoke! Everything is ABC and straightforward. How comes the rest of us can't see it that way! Underaged female grooming victims are to blame for their predicament. Never mind that the groomer is breaking the law themselves. Hormones don't play any role. A finely honed system to entrap and abuse such girls that has been developed over decades (if not centuries) doesn't exist. There are no people that have a grudge against Sikhs for historical reasons like religious rivalries or just plain old fashioned white supremacism. Growing up in a bi-cultural setting like diaspora kids do, doesn't ever cause confusion. The heavily sexualised nature of UK television (and culture) doesn't have any effect on young people growing up around it. We shouldn't really question the role of the giani today in the UK, and whether it is adequate for today's needs and environment - and perhaps seek to adapt to requirements.

Don't try to make out like the white guy wasn't behaving aggressively either. It's very easy to pretend to be brave and throw your weight around when you're in a train packed with white people. The white guy looked like he was intimidatingly invading the other guys space - plain and simple. It says everything that the black guy moved into another carriage only for this guy to follow him. He should not have done that. Under those circumstances most people would think they are in danger of an imminent attack. Race attacks and abuse are under reported, don't forget that. Why was he carrying a knife you ask? I don't know. But maybe he was carrying it for the same reason Singhs are supposed to carry weapons - to be able to use them to defend themselves against attacks? Maybe not.

I wasn't knocking you mate. Just expressing conclusions I've come too after years.

Of course knowledge of Gurbani (and even wider Sikh texts) is a must. This is even more pertinent because we have strains (or interpretations) of our heritage that is heavily influenced by outside thought. We've talked about the difference between 'Sikhism' and Sikhi. We've got universities in Punjab and abroad pushing casteist/racialised interpretations of our history too. Plus as someone else mentioned, there is an attempt to define SIkhi as another offshoot of 'Hinduism too'. Then the whole thing with people somehow perceiving SIkhi as analogous to modern, western liberal values and all they entail. Trying to navigate outside of this is no easy task. But we need socially aware people to do this in the west at least. I think we've got a chance in the UK. Look at how some of our people do step up against the odds here (Bhai Jagraj SIngh, Bhai Mohan Singh, SIkh Youth UK). And people do respond to that. As local 'gianis' we do need people who understand the social, cultural and psychological factors that influence people's decisions. I'm not sure if 'Panjabi culture' will be a strong consideration soon either? Truth is that our issues can't be dealt with in one stroke or with one solution. We have different demographics and different levels of interest (and even loyalty) and intelligence at play - let alone people's own innate inclinations. People have already been heavily influenced by what I mentioned in the first para - some families for many generations. For many people (maybe most?), telling them to become proficient in reading what (to them) on a material level, would be perceived as medieval mystical poetry and that which is written in language(s) that they will in all probability struggle to comprehend - when they have all manner of things to preoccupy themselves with (like social media) - won't be easy. And how do we activate minds to actually engage with their heritage on a personalised level, that they will want to retain on a lifelong basis? I do belief that naam-simran will play a massive part in this, and maybe we haven't really been focusing on this core aspect enough. Maybe we can relate it to people in modern parlance too - i.e. 'meditation'. But if people think we can create some perfect model society - I think they might be being seriously unrealistic. Those people in tightly knit, cult like jathebandis who seem to exist in some judgemental, parallel universe don't help either. Look we need to be realistic about human nature and social realities without this weird tendency to idealise the image of our society (past and present) - I think CP definitely sets a precedent for this. We will have a diverse panth (inevitably), people need to wake up to this. We won't agree on everything either. But the way some people hinge on specific issues (like vegetarianism for example) like this is the most important thing we are facing right now, just shows how out of touch with ground level threats and realities many people are at - and families closeting boys plays a big part in this. Intelligence and social awareness are central to our future - and I don't mean academic stuff only. We don't want to be looking in another brother/sister's eyes and seeing that blank, docile look that is all too familiar. Or someone that has had such a rigid interpretation of our heritage drummed into their heads that they have lost all capacity for dynamic thought, especially in relation to restructuring our society in a more effective/stronger way - that will be essential to navigate rapidly changing times.

How dare you say such a thing here! Why research when you can have someone pump everything you ever need into your head, without having to think yourself! The audacity of your suggestion...........

Interesting piece on this very topic: https://www.scribd.com/document/317212279/Guru-Arjan-Martyred-by-Shamanistic-Law-Sirdar-Kapur-Singh

^^^ Are you just going to go around in demented circles everytime an old Sikh source that doesn't conform to your way of thinking is mentioned/referenced? That's sad. What's next? Will you start attacking Charitrio Pakyaan next because it has things in there that you don't like? What about Suraj Prakash? Man, you really are a modern incarnation of the Bhasauria mindset.

I think it's you that has the cry baby outbursts myself, it's like you are hormonal? You sound like a cult member whose been thoroughly brainwashed and reacts angrily at anything that contradicts that - and here you take your ire out on an important piece of Sikh literature. Fact is that Bhangu's work is very important (for many reasons but also) because it represents a pre-colonial perspective. We know about the family history of the author. It records a lot of sakhis that can't be found elsewhere, and some that can be used to cross check other sources. We'd never know that much about Sukha and Mehtab Singh without it. We'd not know the name Shaheed Baba Gurbaksh Singh without it - and it records a later Sikh perspective of his shaheedi that was mentioned in contemporary Persian sources. We'd not know the details about later Brars using Sikh-Moghul conflicts to try and exploit Singhs (and even exploit Singhnia) without it. The list is endless. It's ram packed with insider details that can't found elsewhere - like how Banda Singh administered the regions he conquered. Bhangu did another thing and actually made it a very interesting, engaging read too. It's also a testimony to Sikh success. Here we can clearly see that the grandson of a renown shaheed, whose own father was viciously attacked when a baby and left for dead - went to on to become a prolific writer. That you prefer that which was written after Sikhs had been subjugated and conquered. says a lot about your slave mentality. You don't have to agree with everything within Panth Prakash, but appreciate this monumental Sikh literary achievement. Even more so because we don't have that much (if anything) written in Panjabi from that period like this. I tell you what, for all your constant cry-babying about the work, I don't think you yourself with another dozen people like you could EVER produce anything even fractionally as significant as it. One of your problems is that you go about expecting everything that was written in puratan times to confirm what you think you know already - like you know it all in the first place. That's nothing short of demented. Plus people should know that Kulwant SIngh's translated version, is a translation of an abridged version (published by the SGPC) of the edited version released by Bhai Vir Singh earlier. There is more to it. One part I'd love to read is the sections on Bidhi Chand which were apparently removed? You'd better mentally grow up and realise that if we go by our own history, Singhs of old weren't thinking anything like you. That's probably why people like yourself resent such works - because it brings that truth into stark relief and stings your haumai.