ipledgeblue

lol dal panth Panj told me explicitly not to associate with Vadhbhag Singh Sodhi followers!

Been so much nindya and attacking Shastarvidiya since the 2000s, however if we look at gatka now it's still mostly as poor and poorly taught as it was back then, still morris dancing moves and still behzti moves in BBC shows about sikhi and vaisakhi. If people were going to attack shastarvidiya, wouldn't have made sense to improve gatka instead and make it more effective? Additionally, the Nihang Singh presence has improved greatly now, and the cracks within the the SGPC and affiliated jatha jathebandis are showing more greatly as panth becomes more knowledgable with dasam bani and itihas day-by-day, so much gyaan which was lost within panjabi sikhs during colonial times. In the 2000s, the groups were able to talk down this bani and gyaan by associating it with RSS and hindus, brahminwaad etc. Not working so well now is it? However with gyaan it would be also good for us to try and preserve our martial arts and keertan vidiya as well! More and more crazy keertan videos are coming out from jatha members that are being made fun of and making sangat annoyed and upset, on tiktok and instagram reels.

It is true that there are 4 varnas. But I think the terms jaati castes can still be applied to other groups and tribes. IT is true, that being jatt isn't really following caste system as such, as that is more of the 4 varnas again!

I read in the past that gatka is derived from a performance art practiced by some Muslims called khutka, as opposed to being descended from sastarvidiya. Could this be a form of khutka? https://www.facebook.com/reel/426824127191317 https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18neut1wLW/

sirr should not be nanga because keski is usually worn.

how to get the physical copy in uk or Panjab?

I know a Rajput Uncle who is a councillor and he wears the regular panjabi pagh. I wouldn't know he is a rajput because coul easily fit into any panjabi sikh or jatt background. But I can tell from his surname. However when I look at proper Rajputs they were warriors and kings with those kind of paghs, similar to wearing dumallas or shahi turbans, some looked like Nihang Singhs! And Rajput background sikhs were involved in shastarvidiya training with Guru Hargobind and Guru Gobind Singh, as well as becoming their sikhs. A rajput background sikh has double responsibilities to maintain turban and also training shastar. I think a Nihang Singh type look is more suitable for a sikh from Rajput background than any patiala shahi or average panjabi pagh

"Preserve Shastar Vidiya any way you can."(Rattan Singh Bhangu, Siri Guru Panth Parkash, ed. Dr Balwant Singh Dhillon, 36)

what kinda pagh are you tying that is taking more than 5 minutes? Actually puraatan maryada is to sit cross legged and cover your feet, tying pagh sitting down. The standing up may hurt your head. Turban is not a hatm, many shaheediyaa have been given for the cost of this turban. MAryada is to tie fresh each time, and also twice a day. I kanga my kes twice a day and do keski twice a daym sometimes do my pagh or dumalla the 2nd time as well if I am going out. Just sit down, put a mirror in front and there should be not stress on your neck.

I was at the Slough Singh Sabha gurdwara last week. I think he was a teen, a tall young Singh got a deep gash wound on his arm from gatka, somewhere near his wrist. He was already on the floor when I entered through the langar hall, but I am sure he did it to himself not through a gatka "battle". I am unsure which shastar he used. I checked and the shastars seemed lightweight for the children. I picked up the khanda and it was light, not like a real khanda. I really want to emphasise that we should not be promoting twirly sword dancing as a "sikh martial art". This young Singh was hurting and gasping - why are we teaching twirling swords around in a way that may hurt oneself?? Promote shastarvidiya savai raksha and other martial arts which are about causing damage to the enemy. Why are we teaching this style of twirly gatka that's detrimental/harmful to ourselves and our allies? A twirly sword might hurt an ally in a battle, and doesn't allow allied warriors good movement around the sword twirler. This also reminds me during the summer, they were teaching some move to kids where you do some spins with the feet and then do a backwards bhangra type jump. I wasn't sure if this was a martial art or bhangra being taught?! Also at another gurdwara in another city/town in the midlands, the year before at a kids sikh club a guest gatka teacher was teaching basics to little kids by making then practice making infinity symbols with the gatka sticks!!! If we are showing off something ineffective and also harmful to the practitioner and allied warriors, then it's nothing to be proud off! If we are going to show our puraatan shastars off, we need to do it in a respectable manner not in this archaic colonial gatka era! The teaching is just as embarrassing as the last 2 decades and I don't understand why we want to promote it as a sikh martial art, to the sangat and to outsiders? the injuries are just not worth it for learning this modern gatka! "Preserve Shastar Vidiya any way you can."(Rattan Singh Bhangu, Siri Guru Panth Parkash, ed. Dr Balwant Singh Dhillon, 36)

and the gatka akharas haven't improved. I saw stuff on BBC and it was embarrassing. Still teaching bhangra moves, morris dancing and I came across an infinity symbol stick move taught as a beginner move??!!

These unclassy women family members, have spolied family parties along with the males who can't hold their drink, some of them maybe don't even reach uncle category. I guess it's time to just do celebrations at gurdwara because of these behjti people! Would be good if some gurdwaras had a hall nearby and allowed Singhs to jhatka for the post-wedding celebration! Have the protesters gone old, have the youth got more knowledge about jhatka? Wedding parties were good and all, but the girls don't know how to dress anymore and ruin the family values, so families might need to stop these parties!

Akaaal!

is there a social media link to this video?

This is where the vichola needs to get involved, and family!

Some new moves to add if your gatka public displays are getting repetitive. https://fb.watch/tRAf9UBbTw/

remove or restricted?

I'm usually more on reddit, much easier to use on phone as well.

Guru Sahibs jis were Sarguna saroop, this should also apply to Guru Granth Sahib. We do do pooja of Guru Sahib, this is reinforced in katha such as Suraj Prakas. But sometimes worship can mean something else beside pooja. I think Pooja does actually have a meaning similar to "paying respect to", worship may have another meaning. Maybe this is what he is getting at? Or maybe the fixo fumes got to him, I dunno ...... LOL

I did not call anyone an enemy. I am concerned that this politics and anti-dasam views are being taught to yet another generation of unaware children. Of course this can be unintentional like the previous generation, but due to the amount of wider resources and santhiya, we should not be doing this in environments that are not associated with any group or sect etc! End of the day, children should be taught Chaupai Sahib upto Arril, and they can choose to cut/mutilate the benti chaupai if they need to do paat at a strict Singh Sabha or SGPC gurdwara such as at Harimandir Sahib, or choose to join SGPC, and some "stricter" parts of AKJ etc. I look at myself and don't understand why I wasn't taught Chaupai Sahib properly and just blindly kept doing the SGPC bhasaur version. Since I went to Guru Nanak School, I should have known better as Nanaksar would never cut it, but that school wasn't even able to teach Japji Sahib to students let alone Chaupai Sahib in the 1990s!!!

I heard an announcement yesterday and watched a video: Guru Maneyo Granth gurdwara are opening a girls independent sikh school nearby

The shortcut benti Chaupai sahib was literally started by anti-dasam elements like Bhasauria and in Harimandir Sahib by his associate Kartar Singh Kalaswalia. Elements like Bhasauria also cut bani from Guru Granth Sahib saroop, printing without Bhatt Savaiye and bhagat bani. Bhasauria and co were also involved in removing dasam granth saroop from gurdwaras such as Ramsar and Akal Takht, using spears and knives ripping saroops angs pages. Regular Chaupai Sahib should be at least upto including Arril, I was not including Rehraas at all since the students did not perform Rehraas. Mahapurakhs, santhiya, and sampradaiye all teach Arill, and even then cutting out benti Chaupai bani like that is silly. https://www.sikhnet.com/news/chaupai-sahib-what-happened-last-pauris "One of Teja Singh's associates, Giani Kartar Singh Kalaswalia, served as the head Granthi of Sri Harimandir Sahib. During his tenure, the Chaupai and Dohira were removed. Ran Singh, the son of Teja Singh wrote the Dasam Granth Nirney in 1919. Therein, he claimed that another Bani (prayer) began after the 25th pauri (verse) - Dustt dokh tay layho bachaaee. However, this claim is false. This is the earliest reference to the short version of Chaupai Sahib, as prior to this, no evidence of anything other than the full Chaupai Sahib has been found." https://www.sikhnet.com/news/chaupai-sahib-broken-bani Quote

I saw the video on TikTok I think. It was at Wembley Stadium and I was unable to bookmark/favourite it because Tiktok decided to refresh. It was the "mainstream" Chaupai Sahib you will hear at a Singh Sabha gurdwaras, usually so-called Ramgarhia gurdwaras and also for the past 100 year or so in Harimandir Sahib under the current committee system. In other words, the sikhs who give up or quit at ਖੜਗ ਕੇਤ ਮੈਂ ਸ਼ਰਨਿ ਤਿਹਾਰੀ ॥ ਆਪ ਹਾਥ ਦੈ ਲੇਹੁ ਉਬਾਰੀ ॥ Lord of the Almighty Sword, provides a shield for my protection. With Your Hands you have saved me. ਸਰਬ ਠੌਰ ਮੋ ਹੋਹੁ ਸਹਾਈ ॥ ਦੁਸ਼ਟ ਦੋਖ ਤੇ ਲੇਹੁ ਬਚਾਈ ॥੪੦੧॥ You bestow help on me at all places and rescue me from pain and the designs of my demons.401. Kharag kait mai sarann tihaaree. Aap haath dai leho ubaaree. Sarab thor mo hoho sahaaee. Dustt dokh té leho bachaaee. (25) O The Lord of Sword, I seek Your protection. With Your Hands you have guarded me. At All Times be my Support. Save me from wickedness and pain. (25).

A decade later and I can show you all what the problem is. Both Khalsa Primary School and students from Pioneer Secondary Academy were invited for Vaisakhi celebrations, and they done a Chaupai Sahib paat. The problem is, they performed the politics ridden anti-dasam Bhasauria mutilated cut version of Benti Chaupai which is disrespectful to traditional puraatan samrpadaiye and mahapurakh. If bani politics is going to be used on children to skip lines from Dasam Pita ji dhan dhan Guru Gobind Singh ji's Benti Chaupai Sahib, that certain groups think it is ok to do, then @serious guptwas right to raise concerns a decade ago! IN 2024, when sangat is much more knowledgable about dasam bani and katha, when we have so many resources - then if we are not allowing our children to learn bani shud and let them choose their groups to follow later, then this raises RED FLAGS IN 2024!!!! AKAAAAL!

When you are at home, you can do ardas in front of sastar as well.