puzzled

Its quite good. I'm quite familiar with the problems the farmers face, but the other things they talk about are quite interesting. Like the ecosystem of the soil. When they burn the crops they basically kill all the earth worms and millions of other insects in the soil, earth worms are very important for healthy productive soil. Not sure where about in Punjab the documentary was shot, but its definitely a area which is quite behind and probably has very few people in the west. You see a lot of NRIs say things like Punjab is so advanced now, its made so much progress, well that because they are NRIs and when they visit Punjab they live in 5 story kotis, travel in air-conditioned vehicles, visit malls, cinemas and eat at fancy restaurants, so obviously Punjab will appear "advanced" to them. But that is the NRI experience in Punjab, and only a minority of Punjabis live that lifestyle in Punjab, the vast majority don't! NRIs don't really see that. Also most NRIs are from parts of Punjab which have countless people abroad, so those areas have better living standards, but many part of Punjab have had very few people move abroad and those parts are far less developed.

Why did Sant Mani Singh have the English flag on him at his funeral? Was there a reason behind it? or was coz he just loved the country?

He was in the documentary Toxification doing organic farming, he was the only one who knew what he was doing! He said one of the reasons why he moved to Punjab was because he loved how everyone was doing farming and growing their own food etc He liked the simple, yet satisfying lifestyle. But he soon realized how people were destroying the soil with chemicals, pollution, how farming was all about business, no love or passion went into it.

They've done this before as well. I guess its to make sure no one post inappropriate videos. Makes sense ...

Yeah its coz of the link, I posted a video on the food thread and it said the video has to be approved. I thought I was on quality control, lol.

I used to like street food in India, but I've been put off after watching some videos ?

My sister made this, it was really nice.

Ok, sorry

It never really used to bother me if it was halal! yeah Indians aren't good at making meat dishes, my dad used to make chicken curry and it was disgusting. But Indians are a lot better at making veg dishes. I used to love those thandoori naans! they were so nice. Try middle eastern food its really nice, its quite different to the way pakistanis make kebabs.

I don't eat meat and I haven't tried many different things but yes I'm open to eating foods from different cultures. Tried a few snacks made by a Gujarati, think it was called a Dokla and it was horrible! I spat it out! Our neighbors are Tamils and they give us food and I really don't like it! but my dad likes it. Thai curries are nice. Pakistanis make really nice food, but they use a lot of meat. I used to try different things when I used to eat meat because there's obviously more options. Not sure what its called but Pakis make brown rice with small pieces of chicken in it, its nice Its different to how our lot make it. Pakistanis meat dishes are better than Indians meat dishes! I ate at this Lebanese place a few times, different kinds of kebabs etc was nice!

Yeah its in full swing. One of my friends he's around 10 years older than me and he has two little kids. He believes in God but doesn't believe in karma, reincarnation, heaven/hell, divine judgment etc nothing! so what exactly is he gnna teach his two little kids? Its happening everywhere ...

Yeah its probably because of dialect that you speak. On a side note, this is why its important to teach kids Punjabi, there are sounds/tones in Punjabi that don't exist in English. Otherwise western Sikhs will be pronouncing bani with very broken words!

? Where's your family from in Punjab? I can pronounce the Chh but it just feels weird and unnatural lol

Guru Ji writes about Heer Ranjha in Dasam Granth Sahib, Guru ji would have written about the Heer of Damodar, as the Waris Shah version was written much later around the time of the Sikh empire.

Anyone know more about this? I knew that the original writer of Heer/Ranjha was a Hindu but had no idea that he became a Sikh? Damodar Gulati Arora wrote the original Heer and apparently converted to Sikhi? Waris Shah was not the original writer of Heers sakhi, his version just happens to be the most famous. Many think Heer Ranjha is a love story, its not! Heer is about mans relationship and quest for God. Not sure if the original Heer exists or if its been lost, but it would be interesting to see if it has any Sikh influence. Are the characters still Muslim or are they Hindu ... The story of Heer Ranhja is also in Charitropakhyan. Anyone know more about Domodar Gulati? apparently he is mentioned in Bhai Gurdas Jis vaarans aswell .... The Real Story of Heer Ranjha We all are familiar with Waris Shah (Urdu: السيد وارث علي شاه النقوي الرضوي البهكري البدراني‎) , ਵਾਰਿਸ ਸ਼ਾਹ (Gurmukhi); 1722–1798) who was a Punjabi Sufi poet of Chishti order, renowned for his contribution to Punjabi literature by immortalizing the love story of Heer Ranjha. His poetic verse is a treasure-trove of Punjabi phrases, idioms and sayings. His minute and realistic depiction of the details of Punjabi life and political situation in the 18th century, remains unique and the entire poem is an album of colorful and enchanting pictures of life in the Punjab, deeply absorbing. Waris Shah was deeply learned in Sufi and domestic cultural lore. His depiction of story of romantic love is a poetic expression of the mystical love of the human soul towards God – the quintessential subject in Sufism and a recurring theme in both Sufi and Sikh mysticism. The Legend Heer is an extremely beautiful woman, born into a wealthy family of the Sial clan in Jhang, West Punjab. Sials are Rajputs clan who inhabit Jhang region of West Punjab and founded the city of Sialkot. Ranjha (whose first name is Dheedo; Ranjha is the surname), was a Jatt of the Ranjha tribe. The Ranjha are found in Sargodha, Gujrat, Jhelum and Gujranwala districts of West Punjab.Dheedo Ranjha was the youngest of four brothers and lives in the village of Takht Hazara by the river Chenab. Being the baby of the family, he led a life of ease, playing Wanjhli (flute). After being told off by his brothers, Ranjha leaves home and arrives in Jhang. Heer's father Chaudhary Chuchak offers Ranjha a job herding his cattle. Here he falls in love with Heer. She is also mesmerized by the way he plays his flute and falls in love with him. They meet each other secretly for many years until they are caught by Heer's uncle, Kaido, and her mother Malki. Heer is forced by her family and the local priest to marry another man named Saida Khera, a Jatt of Khaira clan. Ranjha is heartbroken. He wanders the countryside alone, until eventually he meets Jogi (ascetic). Gorakhnath at Tilla Jogian (the 'Hill of Ascetics', located 50 miles north of the historic town of Bhera, Sargodha District, Punjab), Ranjha becomes a jogi himself, piercing his ears and renouncing the material world. Reciting the name of the Lord (Rabb) he wanders all over Punjab, eventually finding Rangpur, the village where Heer now lives as married woman. Heer elopes with Ranjha with the help of Saida's sister Sehti who also elopes with her Balochi lover. The Khaira riders catch the eloping couple and beat Ranjha mercilessly. The couple are brought before Raja Adali of Qubala, demanding that Ranjha be put to death. Heer’s uncle Kaidu also came to testify against Ranjha but Chaudhary Chuchak testifies in favour of the lovers. On the advise of elders, Raja Adali orders Saida to divorce Heer so she can marry Ranjha.The two return to Heer's village, where Heer's parents agree to their marriage. However, on the wedding day, Kaido poisons her. Hearing this news, Ranjha rushes to aid Heer, but is too late, as she has already eaten the poison and has died. Brokenhearted once again, Ranjha eats the remaining poisoned Laddu (sweet) which Heer has eaten and dies by her side. Damodar Gulati Damodar Gulati also known as Damodar Das Arora of Jhang was the greatest classical story teller of Punjab. He was the first to compose the legend of Heer Ranjha that captured the imagination of Punjabis. “Damodar is my name, Gulati is my caste. I came to the fiefdom of the Sial my heart using its discretion led me to spend my days there,” is what he says in the opening lines of his story.Damodar is mentioned in the Adi Granth (compilation of sacred teachings of Guru Nanak). Bhai Guru Das (1551-1629), a celebrated Sikh religious writer, in one of his Vars (Epic) mentioned the names of some prominent early Sikh converts. One of them is Damodar the wise, resident of Sultanpur. The Sultanpur village is still there, on the road from Jhang to Shah Jewna where a number of Gulatis of Arora caste lived before the partition of India.According to Prof Indu Banga of the Department of History, Panjab University, the earliest ‘kissa’ in Punjabi was that of Heer-Ranjha, written by Damodar Gulati in 1605 during Akbar’s reign. His work was rewritten by Ahmad Gujjar in the 1680s and then by Shahjahan Muqbil in the second quarter of the 18th century, she added. She said Waris Shah built upon Muqbil’s work and the status of a classic was accorded to his 1766 composition. Damodar's Heer Interestingly, the first character Damodar introduces is that of himself, all set to tell the tale with his eyewitness account, insisting that what he is going to narrate unfolded before his very eyes. The poet appears throughout the narrative at important occasions with his comments, creating a strong impression as if he is an integral part of the story.After introducing his heroine Heer, Damodar prepares us to receive his other protagonist appearing on the stage. “Having done with this episode (introduction of Heer) let us bring Ranjha into the world.”Luddan the sailor, feeling empathy for Ranjha who is tired and exhausted after his long travel, let him sleep on Heer’s couch on her river resort. Heer finding the privacy of her bed violated is furious. The beautiful and pampered daughter of a powerful clan chief, hurls a question at Ranjha: “What virtue do you possess that qualifies you to sleep in my bed?" Ranjha takes out a flute and plays it to mesmerize Heer.Damodar composed the original Heer in 1605. Among the notable versions of the epic story were those of Ahmad Gujjar in the 1680s and then by Shahjahan Muqbil in the second quarter of the 18th century. Waris Shah built upon Muqbil’s work and the status of a classic was accorded to his 1766 composition.Damodar is not just the foremost story teller of modern Punjab but also one of the most distinguished poets of the Punjabi language. Damodar is undoubtedly the first among the great story tellers of the Punjab, who with his holistic vision created characters that transcending the parochial came to embody the universal human predicament; individual versus repressive social structure. The unmistakable sign of his profound critical social consciousness is that he makes his protagonist, a woman, an eternal metaphor for defiance and resistance without which human love born of freedom would remain a hollow ideal.

The state of these historical places associated with the gurus and sikh raaj is terrible! Why can't they set up a team of experts/professionals for the upkeep of these places ? is that too much to do? kar sewa babay will either destroy this and build a new bauli, or they will plaster it with marble and bathroom tiles. These places are priceless and need professionals for restoration and maintenance. You can't just slap some cement on and plaster it with marble. What exactly will the future generation Sikhs have to look at if its all being destroyed?

It was his lover who betrayed him! Delilah. God told him not not to cut his hair and not reveal the secret of his strength to anyone. God also told his mother not to drink alcohol. His biggest weakness was kaam! he ended up in a relationship with a woman from another tribe, the philistines. Men from her community set her on fire. He still didn't learn and ended up with another woman from the same tribe, Delilah! He broke Gods command and told her the secret of his strength, his hair. She then told the men of her community his secret and they told her if she cuts his hair they will give her gold coins! and she went for the coins (surprise surprise) She then cut his hair and the philistine men came and gouged his eyes out. Moral of the story, women and kaam can destroy your dharam!

Its a regional thing. Instead of saying Chhotta I say Shotta for small. It becomes a bit of a tongue twister at times when reading bani lol Tongue feels weird when I use the Chh instead of Sha lol

Doesn't the torah say Adam was a giant?

I recently read a historical account on when the Afghans invaded Kashmir. Invaders used tie Kashmiri Hindu men with trees! they then used to place a pot full of poo and wee on his head and start target practicing using arrows! so when the arrow hit the pot all the poo and wee would dribble all over the Hindu! and if the arrow missed then it would obviously hit his face instead and he would die! With the Hindu Kashmiri women, the Hindu men would disfigure the faces and bodies of the women hoping that the Pathans wouldn't kidnap them. Kashmiris throughout the centuries have been considered the most attractive people of South Asia, so I'd imagine Kashmiri women were a popular target with the invaders. Its no surprise majority converted to Islam. When Hari Singh Nalwa and Ranjit Singh began Sikh Raj in Kashmir, the locals were given the freedom of converting back to Hindu dharam and over 30,000 converted back. Many also became Sikhs as well. Guru Tegh Bahadur ji saving Kashmiri Hindus is known by everyone in South Asia, but its forgotten that the same thing happened during the Sikh empire.

It doesn't mean thief but the Muslim invaders used the word Hindu as a slur, it became synonyms with thief, black, heathen etc Early Muslims invaders used the word Hindu for the inhabitants of South Asia, but later the word was used for non-Muslim South Asians. They ruled over Hindus for around 800 years, so started seeing Hindus as sub humans, so the word Hindu became a slur. A bit like how in the west the word gypsy is used to offend people. For example Rumi, the Persian Sufi, described Hindus as Black dogs. As someone who grew up with a lot of Pakistanis around me, they actually still do use "Hindu" and "jew/yahudi" as insults. So when a Muslim wants to insult another Muslim, they call them "Hindu" or "jew/yahudi" I've heard this many times! Muslims ruled over Hindus for so many centuries so its no surprise the word had negative connotations. When Pathans/Afghans ruled India, after finishing chewing on betel leaf, they used to either spit it out in a mandir or in a Brahmins mouth. Brahmins had no option but to kneel down and open their mouths so the Pathan could spit his betel leaf out. Kashmiri Hindus used to disfigure their daughters and daughter-in-laws hoping that Muslims wouldn't kidnap them. Its no surprise majority Kashmiris converted to Islam. They basically saw Hindus as sub-humans, so they felt it was their right to do whatever they like with Hindu women and temples. Its only when Hari Singh Nalwa entered Kashmir he gave Hindus who had been forced to convert to Islam the option of converting back to Hindusim, and around 30,000 Hindus became Hindus again. There has been a Gurdwara in Dubai for a very long time, but its only recently that some government gave Hindus permission to build a mandir there, think the Muslims denied the construction of a mandir because of idols. So for over 10 years it was Sikhs in Dubai that gave Hindus a room within the Gurdwara building to use as a mandir. The number of times Sikhs throughout history have been helping Hindus! who today are quite ungrateful. So you can see why the word Hindu was used as an insult by the Muslims ...

But he hasn't denied the allegations either! Well the txt messages are proof that he was sleeping with other women in India. He's quite an unstable man, so I wouldn't be surprised if he reacted with force after his wife posted the text messages on his social media for all his fans to read! I think his wife did the right thing by posting the messages on his social media, don't think anyone would have believed her otherwise.

The tragic story of the actress Vimi. This actress was in the famous dharmic Punjabi movie "Nanak Naam Jahaz Hai" she was the lead actress. She was born into a Sikh family, went against her parents and married an industrialist. Her dream was to become a Bollywood actress and through her husbands connections met some Bollywood directors at fancy parties. Her in-laws were against her getting into movies as it would damage the families reputation, but she went against her in-laws and made a movie. Her husband was supportive of her. But she wasn't a great actress and didn't receive many offers after her first movie. Once her husband realized her career has flopped he dumped her and went running back to his parents, the parents accepted him back but rejected her. She made a few movies here and there. She then took to alcohol and became an alcoholic, ended up in a relationship with a failed film maker and then ended up in prostitution. She eventually died of the cirrhosis of the liver aged just 32. She had no money left to pay the hospital bill and her body was taken to the cremation ground on the back of a cart/thela, most likely with a donkey pulling it! No one attended her funeral. She made a few Hindi movies and also starred in the Punjabi dharmic movie "Nanak Naan Jahaz Hai" those who have seen the movie will probably remember her face. I don't think it would be inaccurate to say that millions of women who had dreams to become "actresses" and "models" have ended up like this girl over the decades. Including many girls from Sikh families. The number of times I have read about British Punjabi girls who want to become models and actresses, end up blackmailed, selling drugs and prostituting themselves. The usual scenario is they come across a guy who tells they they "know" a modeling/acting agent, but first they need to do them some "favours" , and you all know what happens next ... Don't know when women will learn, and think with their heads and not with their emotions. Stuff like this has been happening for decades. Tragic life: Vimi's dead body was pushed in a thela to the cremation ground Vimi became a household name in the late 60s after debuting in the Raj Kumar and Sunil Dutt starrer, Humraaz. Made under B. R Chopra’s banner, it also featured the stunning Mumtaz. With an assortment of stars, made by the Chopras, the film released to rave reviews, earned massively at the box office and landed the debutant Vimi among the stars. Vimi’s accidental entry into showbiz was surprising, unconventional, and also unfortunate, for this one move proved to be the beginning of her tragic end. Hailing from a non-filmy background, Vimmi had graduated from Sophia College, Mumbai, with a degree in psychology. She was a trained singer who would frequently participate in All India Radio Bombay's programs. Introduced to B R Chopra by music director Ravi, she bagged the role in Humraaz effortlessly. Speaking highly of her in a 1967 interview, BR Chopra praised his new find as, "intelligent, educated and grasps things quickly.” This leaves us wondering why the filmmaker never cast her again, despite the blockbuster status of their first and only film together. Chopra’s detachment prompted her existential crisis in the industry. She lost her credibility and her career saw a downward spiral after the release and tanking of the big-budgeted and highly anticipated Aabroo. Even artists like Nirupa Roy and Ashok Kumar could do nothing to salvage it. Vimmi signed a few more films opposite Shashi Kapoor, but failed to establish herself as a bankable actress. In the less than 10 films she did, Vimi manifested herself as a leading lady with charm and artistic skills. While Patanga released in 1971 barely did moderate business, her 1974 release with Shashi Kapoor again, Vachan, failed to ring any bells. Though movie offers were drying up, Vimi would keep herself relevant through her style sense which was on par with stars of old Hollywood. She was dressed to the nines, on and off screen, and captured a sizeable portion of her audience’s memories by posing in glamorous avatars for filmy glossies. A rarity of the age, she had even dared the bikini for a photoshoot, a bold move that set tongues wagging. With almost all films failing at the ticket window, she declared she wasn’t doing films for money, she had plenty of it, which was evident from her lifestyle that included a vast wardrobe, luxury drives and expensive jackets. But truth is often far from what meets the eyes. Her personal life was stuck in a whirlwind too. Unlike most actresses of Bollywood, Vimi entered the industry when she was already married and a mother of two. The pretty girl from a Punjabi Sikh family had strained ties with her parents after falling in love with a Calcutta-based Marwari businessman, Shiv Agarwal. She never got their blessings when she tied the knot with him against her parents consent. Her in-laws were the only family she had left, but she ended up spoiling these remaining relations with her decision to enter showbiz. Her husband, she claimed, supported her and was producing movies for her, but the films she listed never saw the light of day. Was she lying or was she hallucinating: guess we'll never know. What we got to know long after she was gone, is, the couple had separated long back. Within 7 years into the industry, Vimi found herself jobless, and was living with a small-time film broker who had been exploiting her in all ways imaginable. As the riches depleted, the once proud owner of designer dresses and sports cars, stood penniless, forced into prostitution. To seek respite, she took to alcohol; the cheap and toxic kind, as the means were scarce. Excessive and incessant drinking decayed her body. Gradually she developed fatal liver complications and succumbed to it at the age of 34. Already lost in oblivion, no one in Bollywood remembered her, or mourned her death. She died a pauper in the general ward of Nanavati Hospital, and her dead body reached the cremation ground in a thela, attended by none. It was later revealed that she was a victim of domestic abuse; and her husband was regularly hostile with her, before leaving her for good. Not forgiven even in death, she was character assassinated by a friend who slandered her in an obituary published in the Ananda Bazar Patrika. Calling her death a great pain reliever, the writer addressed her as one "with the roving eye who went out without her husband in the fond hope that some producer or actor will make her an offer" and justified her agony and suffering for the “sin” of not complying with societal norms and trying to create a world of her own.

Its so pathetic when that happens, when celebs say or do something bad and then they make a video, which is normally just an act, like that recent Gurdas Mann video and his sob story, and then all a sudden they're accepted and back again.

Yeah I don't follow the UK Bhangra scene anymore but when I was a kid I used to listen to this lot! I'm hoping this is the beginning of more Bhangra artists getting exposed, because like you said, behind the scenes its just as bad as any other entertainment industry. Women, drugs etc He had quit a decent voice ... Was Jay Sean from Southall too? He did quite well for himself. Though I'm not sure why his career didn't take off in the US. he had everything going for him, lil wayne signed him on, his single "down" was probably one of the biggest singles of the year, he had the image etc I'm guessing he was forced to do the whole illuminati crap and other things one has to do in that industry but he refused, so he didn't make it. Regardless, much better than this wife beating, cheating scum!