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Everything posted by puzzled

  1. I don't understand what is so judgmental about what i said? Just said to understand Sikhi you need some traditional values and boundaries. Being raised in an environment where drinking alcohol with your mother pretty much crosses all boundaries, a person raised like that would not see the wrong in it as it is the norm, so how would such a person find Sikhi and conservative Sikh culture appealing? Yes you will have one or two people change here and there, but I'm talking about the vast majority here. A person raised in traditional Punjabi household with all the wrongs of Punjabi "culture" happening in their house, still understands traditional values, morals and boundaries and is more likely to get into Sikhi than someone who has been raised in a very westernized liberal way e.g getting p1ssed with your mother on the weekends!
  2. lol not quite sure how to reach to that little emotional outburst
  3. What are the chances of this woman passing down traditional values and respect to her kids? making them Gursikhs? yeah she's a lesbian but can still have kids.
  4. Yeah i feel to understand and practice Sikhi you need a understanding of basic traditional values and morals and live by them. I really feel if your outlook and and upbringing is western like many Punjabis these days then they really won't get Sikhi, without those traditional values they won't find Sikhi appealing. Things like lowering your gaze when walking past a female, how is someone with a westernized liberal upbringing supposed to understand things like that? Yeah thats what i mean, as apocalyptic as is may sound i really do think cultural Sikhs or mainstream as you described it really will assimilate into the local people, and the reason i believe that is because its happening! One of my many reasons of getting into Sikhi was i looked at the state of my cousins and their offspring and thought to myself that Sikhi really is over for them! i thought i need to get into it otherwise it really would be the end of Sikhi in my family lineage! My cousins kids are even less interested and clueless than my cousins are. In my entire family from all my cousins and there is over 30 of us, i am the only one who keeps my kes and practices as much as i can! their kids don't even know how to speak Punjabi let alone read bani. My cousin sister came over from Canada and her health is on and off and my mum said to her that she should read mool mantar and her response was "whats that" !! this is the state of them. I worked with a Punjabi female in her early 20s, her family are from Singapore and she told me she drinks alcohol with her mum! how is someone who has been raised in a way where its normal to drink with your mum supposed to even remotely find Sikhi appealing? Thats what i mean once your outlook is liberal and westernized like the vast majority of Punjabis today, Sikhi will not be appealing to them at all.
  5. Do you think its possible where westernized, liberal individuals the sort that get posted about on here, would ever see value in Sikh traditions and practices? and somehow revert In most cases once you go western/liberal then there is not going back!
  6. I think it is a lot more complicated rather than all clear, and black and white. Pan Sikhi as we know it today is the result of social media, we all are a lot more similar today than before, social media has promoted a Sikhi where we are clear on what is acceptable and what not. Social media has helped make Sikhi into something more organized among its followers and people in far flung areas can follow the same. As for my Grandfathers, my families main practice is "jatera" and have been doing it for generations, light a jyot in our ancestors tomb every Sunday put food there, when its winter we pul blankets there. They worship there and ask for whatever they want. They buy sweets and put them there, do matha tek and put money there. My mum said in the old days her family used feed Bhramins. My Grandfathers kept their hair but shaved their beards. My mum said in the pind there also used be a "professional mourner" a big woman who you had to go to when someone dies in the pind and she used to teach women how to cry! My mum also said how When someone used to die in your family or lane then you weren't allowed to eat certain things and had to sit on the floor for weeks! These were the practices! So how Sikh were my forefathers? Did they even call themselves Sikhs? i doubt it very much! Before a proper tomb was created they used to have a brick and they used light a diya on the brick. You have to remember in India, ones identity is their gotra and the traditions they follow is the traditions of their gotra. Before partition people of the same clan even used to marry regardless of religion. I was reading this Saini Sikh guys stuff online and he said his grandmother was a Saini muslim and that in his community all this was acceptable in those days! marriage between Kashmiri Pandits and Muslim Bhramins happened as well in Kashmir. And as for Anand Karaj, it only recently has became popular among people who now identify as Sikh than it actually was back in the days, especially in the pinds. This Sikh identity as we see it today is quite recent among most families tbh. It seem some point during our grandparents generation many gotras started leaning towards some Sikh practices and using sikh tick box in census, perhaps for political and social advantages? I think perhaps the religious reform movements played a role in bringing various clans into the fold of Sikhi, if not by practice then at least by the census tick Even today where my family are from most people will not identify as Sikh in pinds, they practice the traditions of their gotra. I remember as a teenager mona telling my cousin sister in India that i am a Sikh and she started laughing and saying where is your hair and then she said our family are not Sikhs. These days mona call themselves Sikhs as well, that never used to be the case, since monas have started calling themselves Sikhs i think more contradictions have entered Sikhi. Most people in Punjab are just various castes and clans, some have adopted some Sikh practices and that is about it! I think this has resulted in a lot of contradictions, people who never were Sikh by practice and still are not Sikh came under the banner of Sikhi. The fact how the tomb in my dads pind was turned a gurdwara just shows how recently Sikh culture has entered many villages. I think whenever Anand Karaj became the norm for various clans and castes is when these people started embracing a few other Sikh traditions but still keeping their ancestral practice. I think when people moved abroad they adopted Sikh practices more and this influenced their families back home a little as well. It also depends on the region of Punjab you came from. Gurdaspur region has always been the heart of Sikhi and things have probably always been more clearer there. I'm only speaking for the region where my ancestors come from. I mean 80 years ago how would people in far flung areas like Hosiarpur, Sialkot, Bhatinda etc know what was going on in Amritsar and all the revolutions? they wouldn't! My mum said no one even used to go Harmandir Sahib or any other historical gurdwara, its only now with cars that people have started going. Western born Punjabis who try to dissect this scramble would never understand it, they try to figure it from a very western rigid perspective. Sikh identity here in the west is a cultural identity so even monas and atheists call themselves Sikh, they then apply this to communities in Punjab but it just doesn't work like that over there. Punjabis in the UK created their own Sikh identity which probably never existed in their pinds back in the 50s and so ! So its a lot more complicated. I read how after the collapse of the Sikh empire, the vast majority people who identify as Sikh on the census today they actually identified as Hindu back then.
  7. i think its too late for that. just how culture has weakened, dharam, or whatever little dharam there was in the first place has weakened as well. Sikhi is just a tradition for the vast majority and traditions change. Culture gave traditional morals and values, dress modestly, don't sleep around, don't argue will elders etc thats what our parents taught us growing up right, but now that has vanished. Tradition cultural values were hand in hand with Sikhi. Both have collapsed. I mean there a females on social media talking about doing squats on top of their partners erect pen1s, with 100s of likes, how are are you supposed to promote dharam to this kind and what type of dharam will they pass down to their kids? I quick look on Instagram and you will see the majority of Punjabis drinking, in sexual position and wearing next to nothing. Vast majority of Punjabis have 0 interest in Sikhi, i mean why would they? they never were Sikhs in the first place. Just an example, one of my friends back in the days was a punjabi female who didnt know a word of punjabi and she was an atheist while her brother had a baby before marrige with a white girl and gave the kid a english name and moved in with his gf. What "dharam" will they pass onto their kids? This is happening in many Punjabi families, and will continue happening. It really is too late for the vast majority of cultural Sikhs. The state they are in is deplorable Traditional values and Sikhi came hand in hand with Sikhs in the UK. How is one supposed to understand Sikhi if they have no moral structure or tradition values? In my last work place a Punjabi female was talking about b00b jobs, this talk is the norm for a lot of young Punjabis. Look what happened to Christianity in this country after post war liberal attitudes. It is the uncle/auntie generation keeping this lot tied ti some kind of Sikh practice, one they are gone that that will be it!
  8. see back when i was in school it was "i'm going to the library" but i think parents clocked that one out, perhaps the daily walk/jogging is the new one lol
  9. Yeah but what does culture and dharam mean to the vast majority of younger people? "culture" is watching britasia tv, while "dharam" is attending a akand paat. Then what will these people pass down to their kids? For the vast majority cultural sikhs, sikhi is just a tradition its not a practice and they are passing down a even more watered down version of this tradition to their kids. What we are seeing is the end for majority of families that are associated to sikhi by tradition. Once the uncle/auntie generation are dead and gone then that will be it for the vast majority of punjabi families! In the next 60 or 70 years i can see Sikhi and Sikh culture being limited to a smaller more tight knit community, the vast majority will assimilate into the locals. in fact its already happening ...
  10. My cousin who is in his mid 40s was telling me that back when he was younger Sikh parents really frowned upon their kids having love marriages even if it was with some from the same religion and caste love marriages were still frowned upon, and most parents wouldn't allow love marriages, but look at it now! parents themselves are telling their kids to find someone themselves. Love marriages have become the norm. God knows what the teenagers are getting up to! During english katha at the gurdwara one of the Singhs said every 10 years there is a big cultural change in our community, i now can see what he meant!
  11. Waheguru so sad The transport system is so bad in those countries
  12. Sikh pilgrims in deadly Pakistan train crash 2 hours ago Share this with Facebook Share this with Messenger Share this with Twitter Share this with Email Share Image copyrightREUTERS Image captionThe van was taking Sikhs from a pilgrimage site back home to Peshawar At least 19 people have been killed after a train hit a van carrying Sikh pilgrims in north-eastern Pakistan. The crash, involving a Karachi-Lahore express train, happened on a level crossing near Sheikhupura, in Punjab province, police said. All the dead are said to be from one family, and were on their way home from Nankana, one of the Sikh religion's main sites. Eight others were hurt. It comes after a string of recent fatal accidents on Pakistan's railways. More than 70 people died when a Karachi-Rawalpindi train caught fire during its journey in November last year. It was just one of more than 100 railway-related incidents in the country last year. Officials said the driver of the van in Friday's accident had tried to take a short cut to avoid the crossing, where the gates were closed. Initial reports suggested the crossing had no barrier. Sheikhupura police told Dawn newspaper that there were 25-26 people travelling in the van, adding that women and children were among the casualties.
  13. look things have changed, this whole concept of the woman carrying the honour of the family is fast fading! and with that fading younger men are starting to give a less toss about what their women folk are getting up to. When i was in school there was this Punjabi female, she was from one of those westernized liberal kenyan sikh families, and she was dating a pakistani lad, he then told her to take a photo of her b00bs or otherwise he will tell her parents! she then took a photo of her b00s and sent it to him and he sent it to the all his friends and they sent it to everyone else! and guess what, even the sikh boys in school were sending the photo around to everyone lol! my white friend sent me the photo on msn messenger, i must of been 14 then. none of the Sikh boys cared about who she was dating tbh ... she ended up breaking up with the Paki boy and then she started dating a afghan sikh guy from west london and then she dumped him and got engaged to a Pakistani guy in 6th form and her parents were OK with it! but she broke up with him as well and the last i heard of her was that shes married to some Sikh guy in a far away town! It was the same with the Paki boys in school as well. My white mate that sent me the photo of the b00bs was dating a paki mipuri girl! and they would hug and kiss in the middle of the playground and the paki guys would walk past not giving a toss! there was another case of a Paki Mirpuri girl who had s3x with a spanish guy in our school and he recorded it on his phone and sent it to his mates and they sent it to everyone and even the paki guys themselves were sending this video around to everyone! despite the girl in it being a paki girl! So this idea of the female in south asian cultures carrying the "honour" and "izzat" of the family is fast vanishing in our cultures, that's why i don't think the younger generation give a toss tbh. From what i'v seen its fast vanishing in the Hindu communities, followed by Punjabi and then Pakistani, give it another generation and it will be gone! Its still there but it is fading away ...
  14. Why "sikh" parents would let their "sikh" daughter were a dress the length of a t-shirt is gobsmacking. Honestly i'v seen so many cases like these. She possibly with a guy who her rents don't approve off, and now they accepted the guy and she's come.back home. Back in school we used to have punjabi females running away all the time because they wanted to wear makeup or have their eyebrows done! Why they got sikh organisations to waste their time I don't know.
  15. it's so true, but I hate the fact no one says it! Everyone was thinking it but only now shes home everyone is saying it haha Coming from a brown area I saw this stuff happening all the time back in school lol! Plenty of punjabi females were doing this.
  16. You can basically say the same about west london only some parts are brown, I personally don't have problem with those parts, I actually like it lol! But then again I live in a majority brown area and grew up going to places like southall. As for "apneean" I really don't the vast majority if young "apne" give a toss! The older generation seem to be more concerned. I personally am not alarmed by it either. The whole grooming thing has hugely been blown out of proportion imo. You can date whoever you like otherwise ...
  17. Lol say it No one is biting their tongue about this case lmao She just disappeared one day and came back home the next lol
  18. I was talking to my cousin sister about this today and she said the female came home by her own will. She wasn't "found" but came home. She said most likely the female was emotionally blackmailing her parents and probably was at a friends house all a long! And then she probably contacted her parents and her parents gave in and agreed to whatever the females demands were and then she came back home by her own will. Cousin said when the family were asked what the reason was they said it's a personal matter lolz ! I had a feeling that would be the outcome. Its that's the case parents need to stop getting emotionally blackmailed, set rules what's acceptable and what's not, and if the kids don't listen then they know where the door is. I know for a fact that if I marry a non punjabi my mother herself would escort me to the front door! Keep giving in to your kids demands then that brings about big cultural shifts and makes acceptable what wasnt acceptable a couple of years ago.
  19. Why are Punjabis living in East London? I'v been there I know a few Gujjis that live near Green Street, and the place looks like Bangladesh with a bit of Pakistan! I actually felt like I was walking through Bangladesh. Theres a Ramgaria Gurdwara there plonked between all the chaos. Don't know why any Punjabis would want to live there. Even the Gujjis are moving out.
  20. Nothing new just everything we already know about. I thought they would be talking about Ranjit Singhs personality etc but they just narrate how he came to power, died, his sons were weak, sandhwalias and dogras plotting etc nothing new he also agrees with british rumours that Ranjit Singhs sons are not his. Same old stuff learnt nothing new. One thing I didnt know was that tobacco was banned under the sikh empire. I knew beef was banned but I didnt know tobacco was aswell.
  21. I got my ears peirced when I was 19 or 20 years old and when I came home my mum told me I look like a kanjar! I don't think the hole disappears! It's still there. My grand fathers and their fathers used to have piercings i'v seen photos. Men have had their ears peirced in most cultures for 1000s for years for whatever reasons. Even now in most parts of the world younger men wear studs Indian, Black, Hispanic, White etc But when you keep your kes and starting doing naam jap etc it just naturally comes to you that it doesnt feel right wearing them. Same with how your behaviour changes and you stop wearing certain clothes.
  22. Once again no earrings or tilaks and no celi topi painting was done my an artist who had seen Guru Ji. here is another painting of guru ji with the exact same chola pattern. Either done by the same artist or perhaps another artist copied the above 2 paintings and created this one. Even the baaj is the same, white body and grey wings. The baaj also has the same necklace around it. Once again no tilak or earrings. another paintings with the same chola again.
  23. Yes the painting which is said to be a self portrait of Guru Tegh Bahadur ji it has no tilak and no earrings. Same with the Hazur Sahib painting of Guru Gobind Singh ji which the Hazur Sahib Singhs say is a contemporary painting of Guru Ji there are no earrings or tilak in that painting either.
  24. look from @1:13:20 This bakwas needs to stop the historian man obviously knows there was no bisexuality in the court and he starts doing the whole "hmmm mmmm aaaa mmm hmmm" because he knows the man asking the question is a gay and wants to give an answer which the gay will find satisfying The mona man is a gay and rambled on about the gay organization he represents at the beginning of the video
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