dasmesh_regiment

sorry i havent explained yet. it will take some time! isnt gurnam singh neela tara aka bundala still alive? hes in india isnt he?

i am not a fed lover but at the end of the day they have done some fine things. they are going to parliament and lobbying MP's (not powerful ones i appreciate). what are the other jathas doing? have they been to EU parlimanet and lobbied MEPS's? these guys shouldnt lie about the numbers but at the end of the day, they are playing politics - which is exactly what we need. look at how the jews created israel. political lobbying is a major thing to do - it takes time and support. whilst we should admonish for untruths about numbers we should support their political lobbying approach. all i see here is possibly another jatha have green eye at another jatha. = bahmans 1 : 0 all sikh jathas

Pull the other one and stop trying to hoodwink the sangat into believing your fairytales. Ask Bittu yourself if you are that concerned about his dodgy past. Fact : Bittu surrendered to the police in a pre planned operation from the same house that Dr Sohan did so earlier. Fact : Sukhi the cat who had been shown as being killed in an encounter was invited to Bittu's wedding. Why on earth would Sukhi the cat turn up at the wedding. He was no pucca nang out for some samosa was he ? He was invited and Bittu (friend of police cats) confirmed this to the media after the event. I guess you are a 12 year old grasping at anything linked to militancy. If this means defending dodgy traitors then you will do this. We do not all have blindfolds on and can see the games Bittu has been playing. PLEASE BACK UP YOUR "FACTS" WITH EVIDENCE. ALL YOU CAN RELY ON IS INDIAN MEDIA. HOW DO YOU KNOW IF BITTU DID INVITE SUKHI CAT? I DONT KNOW WHY HE WOULD TURN UP AT THE WEDDING. I DIDNT ASSERT THAT SUKHI HAD "PUCCA" LINKS TO BITTU. YOU DID. HENCE IN THE USUAL WAY TO ARGUE THINGS, IF YOU ASSERT, YOU HAVE TO BACK UP WITH EVIDENCE - THAT IS WHY I ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD EVER WRITTEN AN ESSAY. I ASKED SOME OTHER QUESTIONS AND YOU ARE UNABLE TO RESPOND TO EACH OF MY POINTS SPECIFICALLY - SEE THEM ABOVE. IF I AM INCORRECT PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG - I AM PREPARED TO ACCEPT IF YOU CAN PROVE OTHERWISE. BY YOUR LOGIC IF ANYONE WHO ISNT DEAD FROM THE MOVEMENT IS A SELLOUT. PLEASE COMMENT ON THIS. WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME A 12 YRD OLD? EVEN IF I WAS 12 OR YOUNGER OR OLDER THAN YOU WHAT HAS AGE GOT TO DO WITH IT? IF YOU CANT ARGUE AND BACK UP WITH FACTS THAN JUST SAY SO. YOU SHOULDNT RESORT TO NAME CALLING OR AGE CALLING ETC.

On the one hand you call me childish yet you want information from me ? Ask your uncle Bittu what he was doing around Nurpur Bedi and why he did not fire a shot despite having arms when the police came knocking at the door. Of cause you will continue to claim Bittu is the ultimate superhero but everyone knows he is no better than Zaffarwal, Dr Sohan and the rest of the sell outs. Also get some reading glasses I have pointed at Dr Sohan and Bittu being arrested from the same place not at the same time !!! Very convenient to get arrested from the same farmhouse as Dr Sohan was years earlier for Bittu. Talk about a stage managed arrest. where did i call you childish? i said your logic about sellouts was a childish argument. i note that you havent responded to what i said previously in this respect. why is this? is someone who was in the movement but isnt dead a sellout? your logic says this. what has childish got to do with asking you for information/evidence on what you have asserted? have you ever written an essay? because the indian media says he was arrested from the same farmhouse with arms but without firing them does that make him a sellout? do you actually believe what they say? the indian media said sukhdev babbar was arrested in his bungalow in patiala married to some random woman living the luxury life - does that make it true? you have resorted to calling bittu my uncle showing your inability to argue effectively. All this b/s about him being on a dharna is a farce, even the dirty congressi tatoo MS Bitta has made statements against the Sirsa pakhandi, it does not make him panthic and someone to look up towards. Ask Bittu yourself and about his links with Sukhi. Bittu invited Sukhi the police cat and killer of the likes of Bhai Nirmal Singh Nauriya to his wedding. Sukhi was no pucca nang who would just turn up at the wedding for a free meal. Bittu even admitted inviting Sukhi to the wedding so stop trying to clear Bittu of this b/s. Anyone who has links to police cats and was involved in a stage managed surrender is not panthic no matter what you say. as you made the assertion that he has links to sukhi on the basis that he was at his wedding it is up to you to prove it. even if he did invite him, perhaps he didnt know he was a cat? is that possible? are you willing to consider that?

i will explain shortly - although the explanations arise purely from pettigrew and mahmood's books.

Yes only you and Bittu have knowledge. Bittu himself admits to his links with Sukhi cat and his wedding invitation. Nothing you can say will change this. Bittu has been exposed and everyone knows of his parleys with GOI agents during the 1980s and 1990s. Ask him yourself to sit a lie detector test and answer questions on his GOI links. please tell me when and where bittu admits his links to that cat. just because he turns up to his wedding? is that admitting you have links to someone? did not sant ji sit in the same room as giani zail singh at manchanda's funeral? does that mean those rumours about sant ji being a brainchild of sanjay and zail singh are true? Here you show your total lack of awareness. Sangrur as with other southern areas of Punjab are neglected when it comes to investment/infrastructure. The locals wanted a change from congress and akalis to see if someone could better them. SS Mann failed as he was too busy trying to build libraries in honour of Jinnah than roads and bridges with his parliamentary stipend. i am aware of these poor areas - that is why i called it backward! perhaps you should read what i wrote before you reply. in any case these areas have been pro khalistani look at the election results since 1989 - and like i said above and as you confirmed, mann lost this area because he was an <banned word filter activated>, doing <banned word filter activated> policies. i dont see the point you are trying to make in your reply. you are merely confirming what i said. You tell me why they were released. Considering to this day there are people detained in Jodhpur jail from the 1980s how can these sellouts be released so easily ? i am not the judge who released them and neither are you. you call them sellouts? mighty brave of you considering these men spent years in jail in the USA before being shipped off back to india. how many thousands of dollars were sent from california to ensure they won their cases? you dont know because you automatically think just because they get released they are sellouts. clever logical that. the singhs in jodpur havent had thousands of dollars spent on their legal cases. akalis have never helped. nor has mann for that matter. i know bittu has asked for funds from the usa to fight their cases but no-one is sending anything at the minute. Only one brainwashed childish person on this thread and that is you. Like the followers of the pakhandi sirsa wala you too are following Bittu and co like a lemming. i said your argument was childish. i didnt say you were childish. theres a difference yet you wont hesitate to call me childish. your logic is whoever didnt get killed is a sellout. by that warped logic, mann is a sellout. damn, even baba thakur singh of the taksal was a sellout. think before you speak. Who cares what Zaffarwal says. He has been exposed and everything he says can be taken with a pinch of salt. Zaffarwal openly surrendered to police in a pre planned drama yet you want to use him to belittle the sacrifice of Shaheed Baba Manochal Ji. Have some sharam, on the one hand you paint Bittu as having given huge sacrifices yet you question Shaheed Baba Manochal. He gave the ultimate sacrifice unlike your Bittu who surrendered. pettigrew in her book mentions that several kcf militants including zaffarwal thought manochahal was just a localised warlord. i didnt say i thought he was. i am saying every militant leader slates the other - some of us will agree with what they say, some of us will disagree. that is why i said all leaders have positives and negatives.why did sangha and manochahal fall out? ask yourself that. zaffarwal is something else. i havent and wont defend him but at one point in the movement he was at the forefront which is more than you and i. oh and one final point - when and where did bittu surrender? you keep mentioning this. all you have to rely on in this respect is an indian government version of events whereby sohan singh and bittu were caught together? is that correct? please let me know as i am interested.

but people like spaminder singh will call him a traitor because he feels like it

spaminder singh has no idea of how bittu helped run the movement in the late 1980's and early 90's. all he understands is what the indian media puts into the papers to confuse people like him - well intentioned but without any actual knowledge every single kharku leader has positives and negatives but you cannot deny that bittu is raising awareness in the villages in seriously backward areas of south punjab where derawad is at its highest. south punjab, sangur in particular was at the turn of 2000, a pro khalistani area. Mann managed to somehow lose this to the Akalis. Bittu is trying to win it back at a grass roots level. Sant Ji started in the villages. Village power is Sikh power. if bittu is so bad, why have barapind and cheema joined him? people who have spent years in jail. remember mann spent years in jail - why was he released? why wasnt he killed? your arguments in this respect are childish. zaffarwal (kcf) and some babbars will call manochahal a localised warlord only interested in gurdaspur taran taran area yet you will call him a hero. look at current events - who is showing josh and aankh in dealing with the deras when mann is more interested in jammu and kashmir?

he has not been charged with burning guru granth sahib but has instead been charged with thrashing and kidnapping. this is the state of indian justice. he will be sent on his way like the others. he will not escape.

kwality comment

you are right it does look like zaffarwal. i may be wrong. i think the panthic committee you speak of was formed after aroor singh was killed and dhanna singh legged it to california - the original panthic committee consisted of manochahal zaffarwal dhanni singh aroor singh and gurdev singh usmanwala. zaffarwal and manochahal fell out in 1987 so maybe this film is before then if it is indeed zaffarwal in the film? without knowing exactly who the other two singhs are i cant really be sure.

zaffarwal is not in the movie (although i have only skimmed it) the singh introducing is bhai aroor singh (i think) the other singh sitting by is bhai dhanna singh this video is made after zaffarwal and manochahal fell out and the panthic committee split so i would guess it was made i 1987?

i listened to it on the radio very good debate about whether we should be ok with deposit kirpan at parliament etc or should we stick to our guns (no pun intended)

very good video on neverforget84.com 2 other members of the original panthic committee i think. dhanna singh and aroor singh and manochahal. check it out. you may have to register to see it. http://www.neverforget84.com/videos.php

does your uncut hair give you courage to deal with these dushts in punjab?

the first picture of namdhari baba with jagdish tytler is clearly a FAKE. the others pictures are real. sant ji was pictured with giani zail singh sitting a few yards from him at santokh singhs funeral in delhi in 1982. pictures dont mean much. namdhari is wrong because they believe in satguru. they are like dera saucha sauda. same can be said for some sects of nanaksar as they photo worship.

read siques tigers and thieves for contemporary non sikh accounts of sikhs during the time of abdali brilliant book

sad that the akal takht jathedar is nothing but a political tool the bahmans have well and truly injured us

if one reads sikh history, it is clear that the khalsa has always been baagi or baadshah. people who say raaj is not needed clearly have not read sikh history from 1708 onwards.

it does appear that sant samaj dhuma and kac are doing more than most to tackle dera baba although stopping trains doesnt do much in the short term - in the long term it may lead to more awareness why doesnt mann turn up at his dera and protest? it is easy to accuse.

jassa kelal aka aluhwalia didnt ever reach delhi he also issued coins in his OWN name BEFORE issuing in the name of guru nanak dev ji and guru gobind singh ji that aside he was truly a great sikh leader of whom the westerners who were around at that time admired greatly.

bittu never talks about hindutva!! thats funny - why dont you listen to his speech on 6 june? at what stage did bittu have open talks with the government?? if you know the factual matrix of the 1980's and 1990's tell me when did he? it is FACT that Mann held talks with VP Singh government. Harminder Singh Sandhu was shot for talking to the government - how come Mann wasnt? Im afraid the indian government isnt scared of Mann at all. Mann is nothing to them. He cant even win 1 seat as an MP anymore. He lost his seat to Dhindsa a few years back - the shame of it. Bittu is doing something else - he instilling an idea of freedom in the masses, in the youth - showing them that the militants fought for something. He is trying to show them that fighting for your beliefs is not terrrorism. A change in thought for the next generation is what will achieve Khalistan not Mann today saying Sam Maneckshaw's statue shouldnt be unveiled in Amritsar.

mann's recent speeches have shown he has lost it. those speeches in parliament are meaningless now and were mainly laughed at by other MP's - in any case what did they actually achieve? what did he achieve by not going into parliament without his kirpan - what did he do when he went to USA in 2000? did he get on the plane with his kirpan? what did he achieve by saying bad things abou bhagat singh? all he did was alienate the majority of normal punjabis who see him as a hero - how can this guy be elected if he is prone to saying stupid things like that? we all know mann's family history -we all know what his grandfather did and how mann is related to captain arminder singh. mann is landed gentry - full of ego. mann screwed his chance over 18 years ago. HE IS THE ONE WHO WENT FOR TALKS WITH VP SINGH GOVERNMENT not Bittu when the Singhs had the majority of votes - so who messed up? WHY DOES NO-ONE mention that Mann went for talks with the government in early 1990's? THIS IS FACT. Read any book - Pettigrew mentions it, Mahmood mentions it. The Babbar Khalsa in Wangar June 1991 edition specifically say Mann has SOLD OUT Khalistan. BKI still say this to this day - are you saying BKI and Wadawa Singh are traitors? you accuse Bittu of all these things without any actual evidence - sukhi cat went to his wedding - what does this actually show? Arminder Singh has visited Mann several times in the past few years - so what? Bittu was released from jail, so was MANN!!! HOW MANY TIMES HAS MANN BEEN RELEASED FROM JAIL in the past 24 years!!!!???!?! Sohan Singh, Bittu and Panjwar were part of the 2nd Panthic Committee - Sohan Singh is sitting happy in Chandigarh I accept this, Bittu was in jail for 15 years, Panjwar is in Pakistan - what does this show? Nothing! Satinderpal Gill was also a member of the 2nd Panthic Committee - he is leader of ISYF in Canada - is also a traitor then? Avtar Brahma was also a member of the 2nd Panthic Committee - dare you to call him a traitor!! When Bittu was released from jail, he didnt go to Sohan Singh's house, in fact he was never arrested there. I dont know how or from where you have made this up! According to panthic.org he stayed at the same house that Sohan Singh had stayed in. Gama who was with him is brother in law to sukha and jinda - are you calling Gama a traitor too?!!!?! someone who has spent 10 years in jail for no crime whatsoever? In any case do you accept panthic.org as gospel? You believe RULDA ? good for you. Tomorrow he could say Mann is RSS and he secured his release from jail all those times?!!! on this logic, Mann is Congress as Chandra Sekhar released Mann in 1980's and 1990's. Bittu has praised Manochahal in a speech recently - he went to his shaheedi smagam this year. goto his website and have a look and listen. Was MANN there? NO! Resham Singh video is his opinion - Bittu has openly called for Khalistan just like Mann - both have been to jail recently for this - so what Resham Singh says does not really tie in with this. At the end of the day, Mann wants to promote his OWN SON JUST LIKE BADAL and got jealous when Bittu became popular when Mann was in jail. Why is Mann's SON so prominent in his party? What has HE done? Just as you have many qns about BITTU, the list is endless for Mann.

its called bahmanism just because you eat a cow doesnt mean you have killed it

yes it has. sad really.