proactive

On the 2nd May 2007 I put the story up on SikhSangat about Surjit Athwal, 27, who went missing in 1998 after allegedly being lured to India on the pretext of attending some weddings, you have already put me down as anti-muslim, being a Sikh am I also now anti-Sikh? I tell you what I am - anti honour killing!!! :angry: You accuse me of a dirty mind when you don't know me or have read any of my previous articles I have put up? Everyone has a right to practice their religion unfortunately extreme Islam impinges on my religion, freedom and democracy. If Hinduism wanted to continue practicing Suttee as a follower of our Gurus message we have to protest against this and stop this if is going on in our own backyard! Read Jasvinder Sanghera book - Shame. Good response. Please people before making assumptions about someone make sure you have enough information about the views of that person before you come in all guns blazing

If you buy something from a Muslim shop then a part of that money will go towards all kinds of Islamic propaganda and some of it may end up being used in propaganda material used in grooming a Sikh somewhere. Where do you think all thte funds for Muslims to carry out their manmati parchar comes from? It's surprising that those who go on and on about spreading awareness are the first ones to call a text message that spread awareness as a hate message! Since when has asking Sikhs to stop eating Halal meat spreading hate? I personally haven't knowingly brought from a Muslim for years and so can be sure that none of my hard earned money will go towards any Muslim causes.

Let the Mandir be, if the Hindus need to show off their own religion because they can't stand the glory of Harmandir Sahib then that's their problem and not ours. On the subject of inferior copies, the guy who laid the foundation stone of the Durgiana Mandir was Lala Lajpat Rai, he was some Lala who died from a heart attack after he was hit by a lathi blow from a policeman! He's referred to by Hindus as a Shaheed and as Sher-e-Punjab!

Guys let's not go mad on Britiah Sikh Lad. He is wrong in criticising this Bibi about whose situation he doesn't know about but he has his heart in the right place, each Sikh will feel the pain of this girl's family and for some the easiest way to get rid off some of that pain is to criticise that girl. He isn;t using this episode to try and say I TOLD YOU SO. He is just trying to cope with the hurt that each Sikh must be feeling right now. When we read these kinds of reports, it hurts and rightly so because it is like losing a family member. But he is right that too many Amritdharis just brush off conversions as just someone who was a Punjabi rather than a Sikh. We should learn from this episode, the shorter term effort should be to bring her back to Sikhi and show her that she is not along and she has 20 million brothers and sisters who are with her. The longer term is for us to learn from this and make the changes in our thinking and create the resources to counter the evil that is being done to our brothers and sisters. BSL Bro just calm down, lot's of Sikhs feel the same as you do that every Sikh whether they are Amritdhari, keshdhari or Monay are in danger from this evil cult. Put your JOSH into doing Ardas for this Bibi and any others who are in danger from this cult. For now your JOSH should be towards doing Ardas.

You know the funny thing is that most of these conversion squads are run by Mirpuri Kashmiri Muslim scumbags. Yet when their homes back in Kashmir get destroyed by an earthquake you have Gurdwaras running around using the Sangat's charawa to get these scumbags houses repaired and rebuilt! After 7/7 the normal Goray gave the least amount ever as donations to the Pakistani earthquake, they seem to have a better memory than Sikhs do!

People don't just convert to Islam without there being a whole team of Muslims working in the background. The shock of the family is understandable because she just seems to have just disappeared. Muslims are good at working on people for a long time so it's possible she was worked on by Muslims either through a female Muslims friend whose main role is always to cast doubt on the girl's religion. The Muslim female friend will start off by discussing religion and come up with their usual bukwas about Islam. Islam is a religion of peace, possibly introduce bukwas about how the koran tallies with science, even the koorh of Neil Armstrong converting to Islam after his supposedly hearing the azan on the moon!! These people work in groups after casting doubt on Sikhi they will invite the girl to their Islam awareness events. They will tell her that she should keep the fact that she has Muslim friends from her parents. They will try and involve her in something which they can then use to blackmail her in case she is able to fight off the conversion attempt. They will then introduce her either in person or usually on the phone or msn to some female who will claim she was also a Sikh and converted in order to give the victim a sister figure and to introduce her to the idea that some other Sikh females have also converted. The role of the guy in the mosque is central to the conversion because they will try and introduce the victim to a surrogate family who will be all loving towards her. They will home in on any problem the victim has with her family. It's funny how the mosque family are trying to appear as the victims and saying they are planning to leave the country. Good riddence I say, if you and your family are members of blackmailing Islamic cult then you deserve all you get.

Who are you addressing? The person who attended the rally for 20 mins and yet got so worked about the indian flag getting burnt

The same happened last year as well, some people also complained about the flag burning. Funny that, don't hear them say anything against the murder of tens of thousands of Sikhs by India but they get worked up over the indian flag getting burnt. Did you go up to them and put forward your views against the flag burning, did you call them idiots there and then? or are you just one of those who stand there quietly when things go on and then come on a forum to complain

To the wellwishers of the Panth on this forum Please don't alllow yourselves to be waylaid with the circular arguments of this truedisciple guy. This guy is most probably one of the relatives of Sohi or a son of one of the committee wale. He probably had delusions that like chota Badal he'll take over from pops after Sohi retires as usual at the grand old age of 120! These committee people will try and divert the issue as much as they can, truedisciple had no answer to why he is supporting Sohi when Sohi clearly went against Akal Takht Hukumnama. He just 'toon toon main main' around the issue because he knows he is in the wrong. Twisting other members names in an attempt to appear to be more clever than he really is just shows his level. Rather than waste time arguing with him the best response to the gadari of the Panth by Sohi is to make sure that he/garcha and the rest of his committee are kicked out in 2008! Start doing the groundwork now and don't rely on Malhis or anyone else, it's the youth who need to come forward and kick out these people from the Gurdwara whose actions always compromise the Panth!

Let's not have any camp bashing here, even though the sikhstudent camp were the ones who through their publicity material started off the bashing of all the other camps a few years ago. I think people know now what camp will best suit them. Btw does anyone know what happened with all that hallabaloo about some sikhstudent camp sewadar's house getting petrol bombed last year! Someone compared the attack to 9/11 on Gurmustak Singh's blog!!! PM me and let me know, I don't want to divert this thread. Thanks

Come on truedisciple be honest, you have no problem with Sohi going against the Akal Takht Hukumnama. Putting up fancy words about multiculturalism is your attempt to divert from the issue. Sohi knowingy went against the Akal Takht Hukumnama, as the president of the Gurdwara he should have know that attending RSS functions even as in your words a humble representative of the community was wrong. The fact that he attended, knew that a video was going to be made which chances are would be made public just shows how much contempt Sohi has for both the Sangat at the Gurdwara as well as the Akal Takht. What's even more surprising is that he did this a few months after he was forced to apologise for the bollywood beadbi!

Truedisciple Rather than posting the statement of someone who is a member of the Gurdwara committee who don't have the guts to confront Sohi and ask him why he went to an RSS meeting which is against the Akal Takht Hukumnama, why don't you consider why a president would go out of his way to break the Akal Takht Hukumnama. How reliable is Dr Garcha? How can any Sikh stay in a committee which is run by someone who has broken the Hukum of the Akal Takht? The statement just shows the moral bankruptcy of people like Dr Garcha, he's so blind that he doesn't think a video showing the president of a SINGH SABHA Gurdwara breaking the Akal Takht Hukamnama is something that the Sangat should be shown. How many members of the older Sangat will see the video on youtube? Isn't it a case of censorship. The sad thing is that people like you are using excuses such as the background of the people who are against Sohi as a way of defending Sohi. It's sad that some in the Sangat think that it's ok to have a <banned word filter activated> like Sohi as president rather than someone who is committed to Sikh principles. I hope that the next elections the youth get together and kick out Sohi and his hangers on like Garcha.

That remark was made at the Antim Ardas of Shaheed Kanwaljit Singh and typical of the Indian media taken out of context. There was no remark about weighing whoever will kill DSS chief, the media seems to have regurgitated the statement made by Sant Jarnail Singh about the Nirankari chief. Thousands of Sikh youth at the funeral wanted to march and attack the homes of local DSS followers. Jathedar Nandgarh said something like 'the person you should want to kill is the DSS chief and not the followers' It was meant to take the heat off the situation.

From email message lists A SADHVI's letter to PMO has been reproduced from Spokesman Weekly dated December, 2002. Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee, Prime Minister New Delhi I am a girl hailing from Punjab State. I have been serving as a 'Sadhwi' in 'Dera Sacha Sauda', Sirsa (Haryana) for the last five years. Beside me, there are hundreds of others girl here, who serve for 18 hours daily. But we are sexually exploited here. The 'Dera Maharaj' Gurmit Singh rapes the girls in the 'dera'. I am a graduate. My family has blind faith in the 'Maharaj' (Gurmit Singh). It was at my family's bidding that I became a 'Sadhwi'. Two years after I became a 'Sadhwi', a special woman-disciple of Maharaj Gurmit Singh came to me one night at 10' o' clock and said that the Maharaj had summoned me to his room. I felt elated that Maharaj himself sent for me. I was going to him for the first time. After climbing the stairs, when I went into his room, I saw that he was holding a remote in his hand and was watching a blue film on the TV. Beside his pillow on the bed, lay a revolver. Seeing all this, I was frightened and became nervous. I had never imagined that Maharaj was a man of this type. Maharaj switched off the TV and seated me beside him. He offered me water and said that he had called me because he considered me very close to him. This was my first experience. Maharaj took me in his embrace and said that he loved me from the core of his heart. He also said that he wanted to make love with me. He told me that at the time of becoming his disciple, I had dedicated my wealth, body and soul to him and he had accepted my offering. When I objected he said, "There is no doubt that I am God." When I asked if God also indulges in such acts, he shot back: 1. Sri Krishna too was God and he had 360 'gopis' (milkmaids) with whom he enacted 'Prem lila' (love drama). Even then people regarded him as God. So there is nothing to be surprised at it. 2. I can kill you with this revolver and bury you here. The members of your family are my devoted followers and they have blind faith in me. You know it very well that members of your family cannot go against me. 3. I have considerable influence with governments also. Chief Ministers of Punjab and Haryana and central Ministers come to pay obeisance to me. Politicians take help from us. They cannot take any action against me. We will get the members of your family dismissed from govt. jobs and I will get them killed by my 'Sewadars' (servants). We will leave no evidence of their murder. You know that earlier also we got the 'dera' Manager Fakir Chand killed by goondas. His murder remains untraced till this day. The 'dera' has a daily income of one crore rupees with which we can buy leaders, police and the judges. After this, the Maharaj raped m. The Maharaj has been doing this with me for the last three years. My turn comes after every 25-30 days. Now I have learnt that before me too, the Maharaj had been raping the girls he had summoned. Most of these women are now 35 to 40 years old and they are past the age of marriage. They have no other option but to remain in the 'dera'. Most of the girls are educated --- B.A., M.A., B.Ed, etc. But they are living a life of hell in the 'dera', simply because the members of their families have blind faith in the Maharaj. We wear white clothes, tie a scarf on the head, cannot even look at men and as per Maharaj's commands, talk with men from a distance of 5-10 feet. To the people we look like 'devis' (goddesses), but we are living like harlots. This time I tried to tell my family that all was not well at the 'dera'. But they rebuked me saying that there was no better place than the 'dera' for here they were in the company of God (Maharaj). They said that I had formed a bad notion about the 'dera' and that I should recite the name of 'Satguru'. I am helpless here because I have to obey every command of the Maharaj. No girl is permitted to talk with another. According to the commands of the Maharaj, girls are not permitted to talk to their families even on the telephone. If any girl talks about the reality of the 'dera', she is punished according to Maharaj's commands. Sometimes ago, a Bhatinda girl revealed the wrong doings of the Maharaj. At this, all the women disciples gave her a sound thrashing. Because of a fracture in the backbone, she is now bed-ridden. Her father gave up the service in the 'dera' and went home. For fear of the Maharaj and his own disgrace, he is not revealing anything. Similarly, a Kurukshetra girl has also left the 'dera' and has gone home. When she narrated the events in the 'dera' to her family, her brother who worked in the 'dera' gave up his job. When a Sangrur girl left the 'dera', went home and narrated the wrong-doings in the 'dera' to the people, the dera's armed Sewadars/ hooligans reached the girl's house and threatened to kill her and warned her not to leak anything about the 'dera'. Similarly girls from Mansa, Ferozepur, Patiala and Ludhiana districts are afraid of revealing anything about the 'dera'. Although they have left the 'dera', yet they do not say anything for fear of loosing their lives. Similarly, girls from Sirsa, Hissar, Fatehabad, Hanuman Garh and Meerutdisclose as to what happened to them in the 'dera'. If I reveal my name, I and my family will be killed. I want to reveal this truth for the benefit of the common man, because I cannot bear all this tension and harassment. My life is in danger. If a probe is conducted by the press or some govt. agency, 40 to 50 girls living in the 'dera' will come forward to reveal the truth. We can also be medically examined to find out whether we are still celibate disciples or not. If we are no longer virgins, the matter should be gone into to find out who has violated our chastity. The truth will then come out that Maharaj Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh of 'Sacha Sauda' has ruined our lives. http://cbi.nic.in/PressReleases/PRelease2005/sadhvi.htm CENTRAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Special Crime Branch *Chandigarh**.* APPEAL ' REWARD OF RS. ONE LAKH ' On the order of the Hon'ble High Court of Punjab and Haryana at Chandigarh relating to allegation of sexual exploitation of Sadhvis and others staying at Dera Sacha Sauda, Sirsa and murder of journalist Ram Chander Chatterpati as well as Shri Ranjit Singh, a disciple of the Dera, the investigation of these cases have been taken over by the CBI. The CBI has declared a reward of Rs. One lakh to any person who give specific information or evidence relating to the said offences of sexual exploitation of Sadhvis in the Dera Sacha Sauda, murder of Shri Ram Chander Chatterpati and Shri Ranjit Singh. Persons having specific information or evidence relating to these cases may contact either Shri A K Hargava, SP/CBI or Dr.Aarmaan Deep Singh or Shri Satish Dagar, Dy.SsP/CBI, Sector-30-A,Chandigarh-160 030. Phone no.0172-2657102 Ext.203(Office), Phone/Fax-0172-2657285 (office). Such persons who give specific information or evidence in respect of these cases resulting in proper and successful legal action against the persons involved in these cases will be paid a cash reward of Rs.one lakh. The name and identity of the informer will be kept secret, if so desired. *********** *Murder case against Sirsa dera chief** http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070410/haryana.htm * *Cong influencing probe: victim's son<http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070410/haryana.htm#24> * Chandigarh, April 9 Accusing the Congress high command of influencing the ongoing probe in the murder of Ram Chander Chhatrapati, a Sirsa-based journalist, to shield the Dera Sacha Sauda chief and others involved in the case, the victim's son today alleged that the move is part of a larger conspiracy. *Anshul Chhatrapati addresses mediapersons at Chandigarh Press Club, Sector 27, on Monday. —A Tribune photograph * *Murder case against Sirsa dera chief **Cong influencing probe: victim's son **Tribune News Service* Chandigarh, April 9 Accusing the Congress high command of influencing the ongoing probe in the murder of Ram Chander Chhatrapati, a Sirsa-based journalist, to shield the Dera Sacha Sauda chief and others involved in the case, the victim's son today alleged that the move is part of a larger conspiracy. Addressing mediapersons today, Anshul Chhatrapati, the victim's son, alleged that the transfer of case from investigating officer, DSP Dr Armandeep Singh, to another CBI officer, DSP Satish Dagger, was an indication of tampering with the ongoing probe. He added that the investigation into the case was about to complete at this juncture. The CBI has been probing two cases of murder - one of Ram Chander Chhatrapati, editor of Poora Sach, and the other of Ranjit Singh, a member of the dera - and a case of sexual abuse against dera chief Gurmeet Singh on an anonymous complaint filed by a dera woman worker. Anshul, who is now the editor of Poora Sach, alleged that members of the Punjab Pradesh Congress Committee (PPCC) had urged Congress president Sonia Gandhi to influence the CBI probe in favour of dera chief, as he had supported the Congress in the recent elections. He alleged that the PPCC had entered into a deal with the dera chief before elections, wherein dera chief's support would have earned him help from the party in cases of murder and sexual abuse filed against him. Anshul flanked by Thakur Shiv Ram Singh, sarpanch of Bajekan village in Sirsa, and advocate Lekh Raj said: "Due to the interference of the PPCC, the probe, which was nearing completion, is now going at snail's pace. As Dr Armandeep was handling the case, the transfer of the case to another official will only affect the probe adversely. I demand that all three cases be handled by Dr Armandeep." He asserted that as the case was being influenced by politicians, he would approach general secretaries of both the CPI and the CPM, besides meeting Sonia Gandhi and other high-ups, to get justice. Earlier in the day, confusion prevailed among mediapersons when Anshul and his associates went to the CBI office in Sector 30 and did not respond to calls made by them. He showed up after much delay and cleared the doubts of mediapersons. He said he had gone to discuss the case with CBI SP. *Chhatrapati's murder **Son to move HC against transfer of case **Kiran Deep Tribune News Service* Sirsa, April 8 In journalist Ram Chander Chhatrapati's murder case, his son Anshul Chhatrapati will approach the high court against the transfer of the case from CBI official, Dr Armandeep Singh, DSP, to another official when the inquiry about to complete. Anshul Chhatrapati said Dr Armandeep Singh had been investigating the murder charges levelled against the Sirsa-based Dera Sacha Sauda. Before the official was able to submit his findings to the court, the case was handed over to another official allegedly following pressure by the Congress-led UPA government. "I will move a plea in the court to direct the CBI functionary to explain under what circumstances the case was transferred when the inquiry was about to complete" he said. Anshul Chhatrapati, also editor of evening newspaper Poora Sach, said, "The case is under the jurisdiction of the court. But the CBI senior functionary transferred the case to DSP Satish Daggar at this critical stage without informing the court. Dr Armandeep Singh had investigated the matter in detail and was to submit a complete report on April 16. But before he could reveal truth, he was moved out", added Anshul. It is learnt that Punjab Congress MLAs had requested Sonia Gandhi to favour the head of Dera Sacha Sauda in the CBI inquiry pending against him. The MLAs highlighted the influence of the dera in the Punjab Assembly elections. *Ram Chander Chaterpatti, Poora Sach, November 21, 2002, Sirsa** *Chaterpatti, editor of the Hindi-language newspaper *Poora Sach*, died in a New Delhi hospital of injuries sustained in an assassination attempt made a month earlier. On October 24, a gunman fired several shots at Chaterpatti, a journalist based in Sirsa, a town in the northern state of Haryana. Chaterpatti was taken to an area hospital but was later transferred to the Apollo Hospitalin New Delhi. Police arrested three suspects, including the alleged gunman and a leader of the Sirsa-based religious sect Dera Sacha Sauda, according to the Press Trust of India news agency. Officials said that Dera Sacha Sauda members are believed to have ordered Chaterpatti's murder in reprisal for the journalist's reporting on sexual abuse and other crimes allegedly committed at the group's compound in Sirsa. A delegation of journalists, including the president of the regional journalists' group Haryana Patrakar Sangh and representatives of India's National Union of Journalists, met with the director general of police in Haryana on the day of Chatterpatti's death, November 21, to press authorities to bring the journalist's killers to justice. The delegation also complained that several journalists in the area have received death threats for reporting on the activities of Dera Sacha Sauda. http://www.cpj.org/killed/killed02.html *1. Dera Sacha Sauda** *www.sikhsundesh.net/sacha_sauda.html - [Cached] <http://cache.zoominfo.com/CachedPage/?archive_id=923777329&page_id=1257853327&page_url=%2f%2fwww.sikhsundesh.net%2fsacha_sauda.html&page_last_updated=9%2f30%2f2005+6%3a33%3a06+PM&firstName=Ram&lastName=Chatrapati> Published on: 9/29/2005 Last Visited: 9/30/2005 The death, on November 21, of Ram Chandra Chatrapati, the 53-year-old editor of Poora Sach (Complete Truth), an evening daily from Sirsa, Haryana, at the Apollo Hospital in New Delhi went largely unnoticed by the mainstream media. ... The issue was reported in several newspapers and Chatrapati had consistently written about the Dera's activities since then. The letter, written by a female disciple of Maharaj, or a sadhvi, was addressed to the Prime Minister and its copies had been marked to the Union Home Minister, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), the Haryana Chief Minister, the SirsaSuperintendent of Police, the National Human Rights Commission, newspapers and women's and social organizations. It was alleged in the letter that several girls had been subject to exploitation. The sadhvi stated that she was a graduate and had been in the Dera (spread over 700 acres, or 280 hectares) for the last five years. Herfamily, being very religious, had sent her there to serve as a sadhvi. She alleged that Gurmit Singh threatened to kill her if she reported the goings-on in the Dera to anyone. ... The CBI is bound to take a close look at the statements given to the police by the two men who were caught and handed over to the police by the public for allegedly shooting of Chatrapati. During questioning they reportedly said that they were Dera followers from Punjab and had been sent by Kishan Lal, a senior functionary of the Dera, to silence Chatrapati. Kishan Lal was also taken into custody. Chatrapati battled for his life for 28 days, first at the Rohtak Medical College and then at the Apollo Hospital. In fact, several local journalists had received threats, but no one took serious note of them. However, Chatrapati did write to the Sirsa Superintendent of Police asking for protection. Meanwhile, on November 3, the former sarpanch of Khanpur Koliyan in Kurukshetra district told newspersons that because of the anonymous letter his son had been murdered by followers of the Dera. ... Chatrapati being a poet imbued with reformist zeal wrote perhaps a bit more consistently than the rest of his fraternity. By targeting him and also by attacking the office of Lekha Jokha, an evening newspaper published from Fatehabad, the Dera seemed to be sending a message to the journalistic fraternity. A total of 11 journalists have been given police protection. Political parties and journalist unions of all hues have condemned the actions of the Dera. Journalists and members of political parties protested in Sirsa against the attack on Ram Chandra Chatrapati in October. ... They regretted the murder of Chatrapati but claimed that he "wrote all kinds of things". Arora claims that the Sessions Judge who conducted the inquiry did not meet any of the relevant persons in the Dera. Chatrapati had been writing unprovoked, false and baseless reports, he maintained. "There was a difference between a sex scandal and an anonymous letter. The media should have made the distinction clear as it involved the feelings of 1.25 crore people," he said. Deputy Commissioner D. Suresh was requested to restrain Chatrapati, but nothing happened, he said. Suresh told Frontline that Dera representatives had indeed made such a request and that he had cautioned them not to take the law into their own hands. He added that his office had received several complaints against the Dera, alleging land grabbing, drugs peddling and tax evasion. http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1926/sto...03003404000.htm ------------------------------ *Volume 19 - Issue 26, December 21, 2002 - January 03, 2003* India's National Magazine from the publishers of THE HINDU Home <http://www.flonnet.com/index.htm> *•* Contents <http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1926/index.htm> <http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1926/index.htm> ------------------------------ <http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20030103003404000.htm&date=fl1926/&prd=fline&><http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20030103003404000.htm&date=fl1926/&prd=fline&><http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/pgemail.pl?date=fl1926/&prd=fline&><http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/pgemail.pl?date=fl1926/&prd=fline&> *THE STATES* *Godman under a cloud * T.K. RAJALAKSHMI *in Sirsa * *The Dera Sacha Sauda in Haryana and its head are under investigation in connection with the murder of a journalist and charges of sexual exploitation of women followers of the sect. * THE death, on November 21, of Ram Chandra Chatrapati, the 53-year-old editor of *Poora Sach* (Complete Truth), an evening daily from Sirsa, Haryana, at the Apollo Hospital in New Delhi went largely unnoticed by the mainstream media. On the night of October 24, two men riding a motorcycle, claiming to be followers of a religious sect called Dera Sacha Sauda, had shot at him four times from point-blank range. The sect, headquartered in Sirsa, claims a following of more than one crore people and has branches in many States. The Master of the Dera is Gurmit Ram Rahim Singh Ji, popularly known as Maharaj. PICTURES: BY SPECIAL ARRANGEMENT *Ram Chandra Chatrapati, editor of Poora Sach, who died of bullet injuries. * The activities of the Dera attracted attention in May after an anonymous letter alleging sexual exploitation by Maharaj came to light. The issue was reported by several newspapers, and Chatrapati had consistently written about the Dera's activities since then. The letter, written by a female disciple of Maharaj, or a *sadhvi*, was addressed to the Prime Minister and its copies had been marked to the Union Home Minister, the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI), the Haryana Chief Minister, the Sirsa Superintendent of Police, the National Human Rights Commission, newspapers and women's and social organisations. It was alleged in the letter that several girls had been subject to exploitation. The *sadhvi *stated that she was a graduate and had been in the Dera (spread over 700 acres, or 280 hectares) for the last five years. Her family, being very religious, had sent her there to serve as a *sadhvi*. She alleged that Gurmit Singh threatened to kill her if she reported the goings-on in the Dera to anyone. He also boasted, as stated in the letter, about the influence he wielded with politicians in Punjab and Haryana. It is well known that leading politicians from both the States have visited the Dera to seek the blessings of Maharaj. Prominent among them are former Punjab Chief Minister Prakash Singh Badal and Haryana Chief Minister Om Prakash Chautala. The letter alleged sexual exploitation of several girls, many of whom had post-graduate and even M.Phil degrees. They were "leading a life in hell due to the superstitious nature and dead faith of their family members", it said, and added that many girls from Mansa, Ferozepur, Patiala and Ludhiana districts of Punjab had returned to their homes but kept quiet out of fear. The three-page letter in Hindi also detailed how a *sadhvi* from Bhatinda in Punjab, was beaten up by the rest of the *sadhvi*s, when she tried to disclose the deeds of Maharaj. Some 45 girls were living in fear and insecurity but were ready to disclose everything in confidence, the letter stated. *The Dera Sacha Sauda in Sirsa, Haryana. * On September 3, taking *suo motu *notice of the letter, the Punjab and Haryana High Court directed the District and Sessions Judge to conduct an inquiry. In his report, the District and Sessions Judge suggested that the matter be investigated by a Central agency. The High Court, taking cognisance of the recommendation and the serious nature of allegations, referred the matter to the CBI on September 24 and directed it to submit a report within six months. The CBI is bound to take a close look at the statements given to the police by the two men who were caught and handed over to the police by the public for allegedly shooting Chatrapati. During questioning they reportedly said that they were Dera followers from Punjab and had been sent by Kishan Lal, a senior functionary of the Dera, to silence Chatrapati. Kishan Lal was also taken into custody. Chatrapati battled for his life for 28 days, first at the Rohtak Medical College and then at the Apollo Hospital. In fact, several local journalists had received threats, but no one took serious note of them. However, Chatrapati did write to the Sirsa Superintendent of Police asking for protection. Meanwhile, on November 3, the former sarpanch of Khanpur Koliyan in Kurukshetra district told newspersons that his son had been murdered by followers of the Dera because of the anonymous letter. The murder took place on July 10, he said, and claimed that when the police failed to nab the killers, he wrote to the Haryana Chief Minister for a CBI inquiry and sent copies of the letter to the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Chief Justice of the Punjab and Haryana High Court, and the State Home Secretary, among others. The CBI will investigate this case as well. The motive for the boy's murder and other activities of the Dera are the topics of discussion in Sirsa and surrounding districts. Chatrapati, also being a poet imbued with a reformist zeal, perhaps wrote a bit more consistently than the rest of his fraternity. By targeting him and also by attacking the office of *Lekha Jokha*, an evening newspaper published from Fatehabad, the Dera seemed to be sending a message to the journalistic fraternity. A total of 11 journalists have been given police protection. Political parties and journalist unions of all hues have condemned the actions of the Dera. The Dera Sacha Sauda was set up in 1948 by Shah Mastana from Baluchistan. Conceived as a centre of spiritual inquiry and learning, the Dera stood as a symbol of disagreement with all established religions and orthodoxies. Its beginnings were rooted in a liberal and progressive theology that accepted into its fold many people. This naturally attracted several people. His successor, Shah Satnam, continued the good work and a lot of branches came up in other States as well. But since 1992, when Gurmit Singh took over, the Dera began to acquire a lot of agricultural land, much of it allegedly by coercion. One of the philosophies of the Dera is that it neither receives nor gives donation. Today the Dera owns some 700 acres, which extend to the outskirts of Sirsa town, and its spokespersons claim that the main source of revenue is agriculture. A guide points to the Dera set up by the founder, and the girls hostel, which was reportedly built in record time using free labour. What is not shown is the petrol pump, the sophisticated supermarket and a revolving restaurant, to name a few of the entrepreneurial activities of the Dera. It runs a biscuit factory and an ice factory. All this information was gleaned locally and not from the Dera. The Dera spokesperson, Dr. Aditya Arora, an ophthalmologist, preferred to highlight its boys' school affiliated to the Central Board of Secondary Education, its degree college affiliated to Kurukshetra University and a 175-bed hospital in Rajasthan's Ganganagar district. Ganganagar is also the birthplace of Gurmit Singh. *Journalists and members of political parties protest in Sirsa against the attack on Ram Chandra Chatrapati in October. * The Dera has 36 branches in 11 States, including Rajasthan, Punjab, Gujarat, Chattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh. According to R.K. Soni, a * sevadaar* or volunteer, there are 400 sadhus and 100 *sadhvi*s living in the Dera. "They manage on their own," said a *sevadaar*, rebutting the allegations of sexual exploitation. The main mass of the Dera followers comprises peasants who claim to toil on Dera land for 18 hours a day. Dera followers claimed that the liquor mafia as well as followers of organised religion were working against Maharaj. They regretted the murder of Chatrapati but claimed that he "wrote all kinds of things". Arora claims that the Sessions Judge who conducted the inquiry did not meet any of the relevant persons in the Dera. Chatrapati had been writing unprovoked, false and baseless reports, he maintained. "There was a difference between a sex scandal and an anonymous letter. The media should have made the distinction clear as it involved the feelings of 1.25 crore people," he said. Deputy Commissioner D. Suresh was requested to restrain Chatrapati, but nothing happened, he said. Suresh told *Frontline* that Dera representatives had indeed made such a request and that he had cautioned them not to take the law into their own hands. He added that his office had received several complaints against the Dera, alleging land-grabbing, drugs-peddling and tax evasion. The Dera had done good work but all that was glossed over by the media, lamented Arora. "We don't accept charity, we are totally anti-liquor and support de-addiction. We must have enraged the liquor lobby and organised religion," he said. Arora claimed that the Dera was the premier disaster relief organisation in the country, having supported drought relief in Gujarat, flood relief in Sirsa and even in Orissa. "Please do not defame the Master," requested the doctor, who had been trained at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences. A popular movement against the Dera is taking shape, with all political parties demanding a thorough investigation into its activities. In a memorandum submitted to Haryana Governor Babu Parmanand, the Haryana Patrakar Sangh, the Haryana Union of Journalists, the Chandigarh Journalists Association, the Punjab Union of Journalists, the Himachal Pradesh Working Journalists Association and the Himachal Pradesh Union of Journalists demanded a CBI probe into the functioning of the Dera, including its sources of income and a review of the firearm licences issued to Dera inmates, and provision of security to the journalists who have received threats.

Thank You isl and ak-47, at last some sanity on this thread

This thread shows what's wrong with Sikhi at the moment. Someone makes a statement in Punjab that they will set up MARJEEVREH squads, the BBC which doesn't know anything about Sikhism instead of looking at what the term is translates it wrongly as SUICIDE SQUADS. Rather than look at what the basis is of that report and check whether it is a unbiased report by the BBC some people on here from the newsreport take SUICIDE SQUADS to mean SUICIDE BOMBERS. MARJEEVREH have been around since the 1920s when the Akalis used MARJEEVREH Jathas who were non-violent to kick the Udasi Mahants out of the Gurdwaras. In the 1980s Sant Jarnail Singh called for the setting up of MARJEEVREH Jathas as well.

What are you trying to say? Are you endorsing Sikh Suicide Squads? suicide bombing r only horrific if they target innocents. reals sikhs cannot target innocents.every1 has a choice to do wat they want wiv 1s life. How many Sikh Suicide Squads did Guru Gobind Singh JI have? Before people start to get into a tizzy about Taliban Sikhs try looking into Sikh history and find out what a 'Marjeevarha' is? The Akalis who freed the Gurdwaras from the Mahants also had Marjeevrha squads. The BBC has like most liberal lazy media has just translated 'Marjeevarhas' as 'Suicide squads'

It's good that you're discussing this before you make any plans for marriage. He does come across as confused and in two minds because on the one hand he's saying he likes you and then he tells you that he is finding it hard to deal with the situation. At the end of the day it is something that he has to come to terms with and deal with. You need to give him some time for him to weigh up what he feels for you and what he feels about the situation. He has to come to a decision of what is more important to him, you friendship, what he feels about you and your life together if you marry against what he feels about you not being a virgin. It is important that he deals with this before you make any plans for marriage because any unresolved issues will definately come to the fore after marriage. If he is able to deal with this issue then put a line under the issue and then agree that you won't discuss the issue again. Good luck and I hope he can deal with the issue and realise that having found someone who is compatable in so many ways is much more important than any mistakes that you made when you were younger.

Most of the smaller deras in the villages have already been shut down and the DSS followers have either run off to Ludhiana and Sirsa or returned to Sikhi. It's the big deras like Salabatpura that the DSS won't want to shut down. Thousands of the DSS followers are in that dera and they were the ones who rioted in Bathinda last week and now they are cowering in the dera behind the central security forces. If the Panth can get this dera closed that would be a big victory for the Panth and a major setback for DSS. There is still the danger that Badal and his cronies will get an apology and claim a 'victory' for the Panth and allow the DSS to regroup. Hopefully the Sikh masses won't allow themselves to be sold out by Badal.

NDTV We the people debate is on at the moment. Most of the panel is pro-Sikh only an <banned word filter activated> cut hair called Rahul Singh is speaking rubbish saying Sikhs are over reacting and surprise surprise he's Khushwant Singh' son!!

How about Jhoota Sauda Dera cartoon. Four frames, one showing fake baba saying 'we believe in peace and non-violence' next frame showing his followers during the Bathinda riot, 3rd frame showing him saying 'we don't believe in politics' last frame showing newspaper headline 'Dera Backs Congress in Elections'

Apparently the Punjab Police have registered a case against the fake Baba, five days too late but better late than never. I suppose it's Badal's way of lessening the pressure of the Jathedars at their meeting in Amritsar this afternoon.

The Indian media is showing it's bias but also the Manmatis are showng how medai savvy they are. Their spokesman's smug face can be seen on most channels and they media are concentrating on the syapa of the manmatis at Sirsa rather than how much hurt this cult's leader has caused to Sikhs. The fact that many turbanned people can be seen among the manmatis show that they are putting some of their followers who look like Sikhs to the forefront to keep the pretence that this is a Akali-Dera feud and not a Sikh-Dera feud. The fact that there are people of Sikh appearace amongst the manmatis show that the SGPC has failed in their parchar duties. Only a concerted effort by the SGPC and Sikhs in Malwa will bring back some of the Sikhs who follow the dera. There was some good news from Kiri Afghana village near Chamkaur Sahib that Dera followers have entered the Sikh mainstream. This process will need to repeated all over Malwa. The Indian media is also lionising the manmatis with fake reports such as 40,000 dera supporters at Dabwali ready to enter Punjab. This was the report once the news came through that 50,000 Sikhs were blockading the Salabatpura dera. With each passing day the media is putting out misinformation like the dera has 30 million followers. The dera supporters are basically cowards who are now pushing foward their womenfolk after they have realised that Sikhs are now intent on teaching them a lesson. Their real fear was that in the early days the Sikhs from Punjab would march on Sirsa dera and burn it to the ground. The people on the gorund are saying that LESS dera followers congregated at Sirsa on the call given by their leader than congregate on a NORMAL sunday!

Various tall claims are being made about the number of members of Sacha Sauda Manmat. Some channels are saying they are 3 crore (30 million) in Punjab and Haryana which is a hugely inflated figure. The total population of Punjab and Haryana is only 44 million. These manmatis are probably less that a Lakh out of which they have managed to get about 10-15,000 into Bathinda. The ones in Bathinda are from around Malwa or from outside Punjab like Haryana, Delhi etc. The events in Bathinda are a show of strength by the Dera head, you don't get thousands of your followers to riot and rampage for two days without having given a direct order. These events are aimed at diverting the public from the CBI report which has to be submitted later this month about the accusation of rape against the saadhu and the role of his followers in the murder of an investigative reporter who was looking into this case. There are two scenarios that can be played out here-; Either the Akal Takht Jathedar and SGPC take the bull by the horns and galvanise the Sikhs into teaching this saadhu and his arrogant followers a lesson and show him that in taking on the Sikhs the saadhu has bitten off more than he can chew. It's clear that either Badal is disinterested in doing anything and just wishes that the problem just dies down or he is maybe even involved in some way in these stage managed events in order to help save this saadhu from facing the full rigours of the law for his crimes. In India the easiest way to get someone off a court case is to get as many of your followers to protest and riot and the judiciary under pressure from the government will always back down. Badal has a history of saving saadhus just before the Sikhs get their hands on them. He did the same in 1979 to the Sant Nirankari saadhu. He also has experience in browbeating authority and escaping punishment especially when he made sure that he had thousands of his supporters to intimidate the Akal Takht Jathedar in 1995 when he was called to the Akal Takht as to why he had not dissolved his Akali Dal faction in the light of moves at Akali unity made by the Jathedar. If he had wanted to Badal could easily have sent in more police and made sure that the police took strong action against the manmatis. The rioters like all mobs are cowards and any strong action would have seen them beat a hasty retreat out of Bathinda. The manmantis knew they could get away with their rioting otherwise you don't attack the police in India unless you know for sure they have orders not to take action against you. Police in India are well known to shot before they ask any questions, so why didn't the police shoot at rioters especially as they were being attacked by them? That's the big question and one that shows the politicking behind these events. Badal will try and pressurise the SGPC and Akal Takht to 'make calls for peace' and keep putting off making a decision until the whole matter dies down.In the meantime the manmatis in Bathinda will cut back on the rioting and then having declared that they have given the Sikhs a beating in Guru Ka Malwa they will return to their Dera. Meanwhile the Akal Takht Jathedar will have his meeting and in light of the reduced violence will probably make some strong statement and then rush back to Amritsar in his air conditioned car. The only factor that can put a spanner in the works is Akali Dal (Amritsar), Dal Khalsa, Damdami Taksal and the more militant of the Sikh Students Federation. Provided they get enough of their followers there and in the agitated mood that Sikhs are in manage to force the Akal Takht Jathedar to issue a Hukumnama against the dera. The Akal Takht Jathedar could easily have given a call to the Sikhs in the villages around Bathinda to blockade the town in a show of strength. A peaceful boycott by the Lakhs of Sikhs around Bathinda would have ensured that the manmati rioters come to their senses. In this situation they would have been begging the police for protection. Given the fact that the manmatis have continued their rioting and the state has stood as mute spectator then the Akal Takht Jathedar has the right to give a call to Sikhs around Bathinda to save the live and property of Sikhs in Bathinda from the rioters. A similar thing was done in 1986 when Batala was blockaded after Hindus had attacked Sikhs there. That blockade call was given by the Kharkoos and not the Akal Takht Jathedar. Already some of the dispersing rioters have been assaulted and beaten up on the outskirts of Bathinda.

It always takes a big Saka for the Panth to wake up. I can understand what Rupinder Singh is saying but in my view he is mistaken. Yes the fat saadh has got publicity for his manmat but what else? Do you really think this guy will last long and if he does it will be because he'll be in police custody. This case is similar to the Bhaniara <banned word filter activated>, he also caused this type of problem and where is he now? He's in police custody, he's already been attacked once and what did the publicity he got do for him? Every Sikh knows what he looks like and he's a walking target. When the Bhaniara incident happened some of his followers in our village were all beaten up and they were only spared when they agreed to throw away the <banned word filter activated>'s photos in the gutter.