Gurbar Akaal

The fighting arts of the khalsa have been called many things, such as ayudh vidiya, bir vidiya, shastarvidiya, the term Jhatka Gatka was coined by Baba Gyana Singh when they came accross exhibitionist Gatkabaaj, stating that "If your vidiya is Gatka, then my vidiya is Jhatka Gatka" making the differentiation from the showmanship exhibition style of the Gatkabaaj compared to the traditional Vidiya which was aimed to kill quickly, effectively and precisely. If people have no idea of what Shastarvidiya is, they can only relate to what they know, hence the use of the term Jhatka Gatka. There is a bola which they sang also which makes the differentiation between the two styles. Whether the name made a change is regardless, the vidiya is the same, even if Niddar Singh called his art just Gatka, it would still be worlds apart from what is taught in modern day Sikh Akharas. If you read Gyani Gyan Singhs works, you will see the level of yudh vidiya and practise of weapons that was practised by the Singhs, he also expresses his sadness and emotion to the decline of these arts, stating that our own sikhs wont believe these arts existed and in 50 yrs time, people will say "your lying", seem familiar?

The evidence of the origins of the words used by Sikh Gatkabaaj is enough to show that it isnt just exclusive to them, the term Gattka means "Persian Sword Stick", the longer stick they used they call a "Maratti", which has its origins with the Marrattas of southern India. The fact that Gatkabaaj use the word "Ustaad" which is an islamic word for teacher, as opposed to Gurdev in Sikhism and Aacharya amongst the Hindus. Gatkabaaj use words such as Salami (not the sausage) as opposed to Namaskaran, and videos such as these which show the exact same movements, steps, strikes, positioning, striking stick on sheild, the drums etc and people still continue to ignore it. "Weapons" such as the Chakri wheel were never used by the Gurus, and to think that it can deflect and block armour peircing arrows is ridiculous! These arrows would puncture and peirce through plated armour, as soon as something is trapped in the chains of this wheel its gonna fold and flap all over the place. And plus, if someone was waving that infront of you, youd shoot his hands off before he could throw it up in the air and spin on the floor with it and pass it onto his eager friend whos waiting to catch it. Alongside that, no evidence of the term Gatka being used in any Sikh Ithihasic text solidifies the fact that Gatka was introduced to the Sikhs much later than the Guru period. This is not even touching upon the poor martial ability and flaws against using Gatka on a proper battlefield where they would end up killing their own through ludicris spinning and twirling. If Gatkas main weapon is being able to spin so fast and stop everyone coming in, why is it that in every video regarding Gatka there is never a clean kill, nor a clean strike. How long could someone maintain this spinning without getting tired in battles which would last hours upon end? The differing and diverse types of weapons that are in the arsenal of Indian Warriors is probably the most vast amongst all martial cultures in the world, however when you look at Gatka, they use a limited amount of weapons and of those they use (khanda, tulwar, stick) they are always used in the same way, marora (which means having the runs) cheer, spin and repeat. Surely with so many types of weapons the ways to use them would be immense and varied, but what we witness is the same repetition and dramatics until the demonstration is made more interesting by someone puttin salt in their eyes, blind folding themselves and cutting a banana to the beat of a drum and strobe lights

If your ever in the UK, your more than welcome to come to the akhara and back up your words.

Out of interest, how many classes of Shastarvidiya have you attended to make such a claim? If you havent, then I invite you to come to the Akhara to prove how MMA and Krav Maga will destroy Shastarvidiya

Bhai Sahib PJS You say "In no way it is a Devi of Hindu faith", if this is the case then why throughout Sri Dasam Granth is this creative force called Chandi, Durga, Bhawani, Jagdhumbeh, Jagmata etc the exact same names which are used to relate to the "Hindu" Goddess? Also why is it that the same stories are used, and descriptions of Chandi riding a tiger, holding weapons, and slaying demons such as Mahikhasur and Rakatbeej, the same demons which the "Hindu" Goddess slays in puranic myths?

So basically, your putting Firangi and Israeli arts as more useful and better then the art propagated and passed down by your own Gurus? What next? The Bible and Tora is more effective in order to reach Sehaj Avasta and Brahm Avasta over the Gurbani of our Satyguru? Or lets not endeavour to practise Kirtan in traditional Druphad Raag, instead Kirtan is more effective when done in a different style over the traditions of the Satguru?

Your gonna be hard pushed to find good shastar in Punjab, if your in Hazoor Sahib ask for a shastar dealer called Pappu, he has some shastar but they can be expensive. As long as the person going has knowledge of shastar they wont get ripped off. Main thing to look for is if the handle has been changed, or if the tulwar has been cut down to hide dings and damage, avoid anything with pitting and rust. Many times a new shastar is made and dug underground for a number of months to make it age and rust, and is then passed off as puratan. Hard to give advice on shastar without seeing them, have a look on some websites and get a feel for the price ranges of certain shastar/metals/materials and you will have an idea of how much each shastar could go up to. Dont buy anything without being happy with it, and always try to haggle the price. If your happy payin that much, dont buy it. Some shastar will be of normal materials, but due to the rarity of the shastar (souson patta, jamdhari katar, saif, sirohi etc) the price will always be high. If your around there for a few days, have a look around all the dealers and then decide rather than impulse buying.

The best step is to prevent this event happening today and lobby with gurdwaras around UK to ensure they are aware of Darshan in the country and that they should uphold the hukamnama of his excommunication. Secondly it is a opportunity for knowledgeble Singhs to tackle and debate with Darshan on his views. People may be able to stop him going to Gurdwaras, but you cant stop him spreading his views behind closed doors. If he can be defeated in debate then it will silence him for the future. The fact is that Darshan is well known amongst older generations, most older people state "no if prof darshan singh says it, then it must be true", so his views hold allot of weight due to his old fame and popularity. There has not been any real parchar from pro Dasam Guru Darbar supporters which reaches out to the masses, maybe it was time it was done.

Should there really be a pre-requiste of numbers before a Sanchar is carried out? Even if one person comes forward it should be done for that person alone.

What did he quote from Sarbloh? I guess he must have missed the refferences to Dasam GURU Darbar, as Niddar Singh see's Aad Dasam and Sarbloh Darbars as Guru and at the same level.

Funniest is the subliminal message of "Guru Granth Da Khalsa Panth"

Dunno if this is just a rumour, but apparently two Pro Dasam Granth Singhs got a knife put to their throat, one of them had his head split open and the other is half blind in one eye, they turned up to this program. Any truth in this?

A translation of Sri Bhagauti Astotar can be read on Jvala Singhs blog http://sikh-reality.blogspot.com/2010/01/bhagauti-astotar-paat-is-very-rare.html

The front part of the opening of the kachera should dip just onto the knee, whilst the back should not go past the khuchh of the knee, never past the knee as it restricts movement like chatanga stated. I normally get mine made in Phagwara.

Get the Sri Dasam Granth Steek by Pandit Narotam from Singh Brothers website. You can get the whole steek or just the volume which has Chritropakhyan in there.

Mehtab Singh, if Mahakaal is the "Great Death" and Kaal is "Death", Mahakaal is the higher entity right? So how can Mahakaal be someone who does aradhana of a lower Kaal? The word is spelt ਕਾਲਿਕਾ not ਕਾਲਕਾ In Dasam Guru Darbar, Guru Gobind also writes: ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲ ਹੈ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਦੇਬਿ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਮਾਤ ਹਮਾਰਾ Is that also Kaal Ka? Or Kalika?

Apart from the non literal translation of "Maa Da Putra", the translations for the rest of the video seem correct.

Navdeep shot the videos of the techniques for the Shastarvidiya website, that is the filming he is reffering to. The documentary is shot in India with Indian Nihang Singhs, showing the maryada and lifestyle that they follow. If you have an issue with it, take it up with them.

The reason why you cant get a job is because the current financial climate, theres more people out of work hence more competition and less available jobs. Look at your CV and try to make it more appealable to employers, work on your interview technique etc Your kesh have nothing to do with this issue, myself and countless other Sikhs have found work and are working in good jobs, Kesh has never been a set back, so dont let other people tell you that. If you go and cut your kesh and you still dont find a job, then what?

The thing with the older generation and Darshan, is that because they spent allot of time admiring his parchar and see him as a good kathakar, they easily believe what he says. Some people ive met say "no he couldnt have said that" or... "par darshan singh kenda see dasam granth vich gallat galaa likhiya aah", his words have allot of weight amongst people who used to listen to him before. If for example, Ranjit Singh Dhadriawala flipped his stace and became anti Dasam Granth, allot of people would believe him due to his reputation. Dasam Bani is easily defended because it is is the truth, however due to the prudishnes of some people they will easily side with Darshan and his band of fellow anti dasam parcharaks. Beware of manmat in the guise of gurmat.

The Tapoban translation edited out the bits they didnt agree with.

"Sort them out" can be interpreted by many fools in many ways. DTF sell a number of different types of books, sikh, hindu, islamic. By posting just a picture which doesnt even seem offensive and saying they sell RSS books isnt very responsible is it?

I would suggest "shopping around" for even the budu, WC, Kali and grappling schools as they are not always teaching the same thing and at the same level. With the commercialisation of martial arts schools around the world, most ppl have turned them into businesses, where the actual effectiveness is watered down, the techniques are not as effective. Trial a few schools and see which works best for you, any place that tries to hook you up on a direct debit, run for the door.

Converts? People who follow any way of life follow it because either: 1) It makes the most sense to them, providing them answers to questions which co-incide with history and traditions. 2) The person has no other exposure to anything different (ie, families who follow a certain rehit) 3) Following the crowd I think the idea that Davinder Singh Panesar is trying to put accross that people have converted to being a Nihang is utilising the incorrect language. If someone follows a particular aspect of Nihang maryada, ie extra Dasam Guru Darbar portions within their nitnem, practise of Shastarvidiya, Shastarpooja, Ghor Swaar, Bana maryada etc, that is not enought to constitue a "conversion" which requires an initiation which disregards all previous associations and alliances with your previous lifestyle. Or maybe I got the wrong end of the salotar?