AK-47

Aww bechara, all that jumping around and shouting and it all turned out to be pointless!! lol And now instead of admitting that he was wrong and accepting it, he/she tries to cause more trouble! If you thought you were going to get your head chopped off and you were scared to question people there, do you feel safer doing it over the internet? Your not painting a very respectable picture of yourself are you This thread would appear to be about informing the sangat about the official stance of the AKJ on the gurbani of Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, not about who is the jathedhar of taksal, you clever clever clever person! None of us saw that one coming!! How clever to bring up that age old jathedharis question when you have nothing new to say about the original thread! As Singhs have said, ask your questions, but ask them with sincerity and ask them genuinely.

Lol Maybe if you had attended the barsi you could have seen what was parkash on which day. Since you were too scared to attend, heres a summary for you. In the upstairs darbar the akhand path was happening alongside japji sahib, singhs were also doing chaupai sahib for the chardi kala of the panth as well. In the downstairs darbar, there was parkash of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharajh, and for the Sehaj Path Bhog parkash of Dasam Granth Sahib Ji was done as well. Once the Bhog and darbar were completed the Dasam Granth Ji Saroop were returned to Sachkhand Sahib. There was no parkash of the Dasam Saroop on the final day of the barsi, so please stop screaming and crying. The other point you keep going on about why the Sikh Channel only showed glimpses of the parkash and that the organisers were therefore trying to hide this fact .... take a second and think .. if the organisers didnt want to show both parkash, then why would they do it in the first place?! Why would they argue so much with the channel to get the parchar being broadcast? You've lost the plot, or more likely your cluthcing at straws and just trying to find something to say! At last years barsi, the singhs did Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Jis parkash in a different palki as the main one wasnt large enough to accomadate both saroops. At willenhall the gurdwara committee requested that this be arranged. At the Nihang Dals and at the Taksals both saroops are parkash at the same level. As Jassa said, the thakats have same parkash but on different palki's, either way id the same really. Please try and understand the following: Our Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Gurbani of Dasam Granth Sahib Ji must be treated with the same equal respect. When we read our nitnem we do not differentiate between the bani from guru granth sahib ji (japji sahib, anand sahib, parts of rehras sahib and kirtan sohila) and that of dasam granth sahib ji (jaap sahib, swieyeh, chaupai sahib, parts of rehras sahib. We treat all of this bani the same, as such the same respect can and should be given to both sets of Gurbani. IT IS possible to do this and at the same time understand that our Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. If we are against treating the bani of dasam granth sahib ji with the same respect, then that bani should not be allowed to sit in gutka sahibs in the same place either. Maybe in the future we will see people arguing for 2 different gutka sahibs, one with adh gurbani and one with dasam bani. If we look at this from a satkar for maharajh angle, then lets look at the gursikhs that we all have so much respect for. The one person who spoke out more for guru granth sahibs ji satkar then anybody else was sant jarnail singh ji. Nobody else would go on stage and tell the sangat to cut off the head of anybody that was disrespecting guru granth sahib ji. The singhs with sant jarnail singh ji did many missions of this nature. Now in 2009 we are saying that doing parkash of dasam is beadbi of maharajh. Dasam saroop were parkash on the same palki under same chandoa at metha chowk for many many many years. If Sant Ji is the head for promoting satkar for maharajh, do you really think he would do badbi himself? At the time the singhs of taksal and the babbars agreed to disagree over raag mala and carried on the panthic work. As far as i am aware they did not need to come to an agreement over the parkash of dasam granth sahib ji. If this had been an issue of beadbi, then im sure one of the singhs would have asked sant ji/taksal to stop doing the parkash. but this didnt happen. ie it was a non issue. So why are we making it an issue now? The singhs who have died for the panth, given their families, were tortured and went through the worst pain, stood by and witnessed the parkash of dasam granth sahib ji. But today we have people who think they know better and know more about maharajhs satkar then our own shaheed singhs. Guru will always be Guru Granth Sahib Ji and nobody else, but the Gurbani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Dasam Granth Sahib Ji will also be treated with the same respect that is due to GURBANI.

Yes your right none of the people are singhs that were part of this sangat are proper singhs are they, hence your use of the old "-", i guess they just didnt take amrit from the right place or something?! Firstly why would the organisers of a prog concerning the taksal speak to other jathebandia about anything? Do the akj ring nanaksar up before they arrange a rehnsbhai and ask them? Do the nishkam seva jatha sit down and have a meeting with the nihang singhs before they have a sampat paath? The arrangements made with the full consent of the gurdwara committee were recorded in the minutes, which the gurdwara committee has and showed to (i assume your leaders at the emergency meeting that they so desperately wanted the day before arambh, in which everything was explained to them). Dasam parkash was held in a seperate darbar to the akhand path. Thats how i answer that one. The people have already been named in about 3 different threads, cant you read? Someone even asked for their pictures and someone put up links to show who they were as well? Seriously man, read first, run your mouth after, makes you look very silly otherwise! And oh yes were very scared to name them ... trembling at the knees, they might petrol bomb my car parked in my drive, or send out text messages comparing the dasam parkash to the sikh events such as the ghulukareh, 1978 and 1984!? (Yes strange as it may sound this is the desperation of the people trying to mislead the sangat, saying that this was the scale of what was happening and asking that people turn up to stop it! Aap aeh ni, loka nu parkoh de si!) Just to repeat something that has been said many many times. The vast majority of the sangat at these events and even many of the organisers are not what you would label taksalis. They are people with satkar and sharda for baba takhar singh ji, sant jarnail singh ji, and the taksal. That does not make them part of the jatha. To be a taksali as you put it, requires around 7 or so years of santhia/learning katha/learning kirtan/doing seva/teaching the santhia etc etc etc. This type of effort can only be done by the blessed, so if you were to ask most of the sangat they would say no that they are not taksali, simply because to claim to be so is no small thing. Soemtimes kids get carried away, but these are usually spoken to after as well. Regarding mehta politics .. you have revealed your level of ignorance about the uk/mehta politics and thats all i'l say lol. Your posts are designed to provoke reactions, and many have done the same over the years, give it a rest. you should have come to the prog, or was you busy texting away? Dont worry there will be more in the future, you are more then welcome to attend and show the silly boys how things are meant to be done! Brother Mala, you are 100% and i couldnt agree with you more. From what the organisers told me that is what they had wanted to do, ie spend the majority of the broadcast time on the katha and veechar so as many issues as possible could be sorted out. I think only the end of the sehaj path was going to be shown to give maximum air time to katha but to also at least show a small part of the paath. When it became obvious that the sc were being forced into not showing the gurbani being read at all, the plans seem to have forced to change. There was also meant to have been a couple of singhs who were to appear on a sc show clarifying the parkash of dasam granth sahib ji and other points as well, the singhs were ready to go, but that show was also cancelled by the channel. So brother you are right, in your first post as well about what actually happens in the sehaj path bhog, these things need to be explained fully. With maharajhs kirpa such things will be done in the future. There is a dasam granth akhand paath happening this weekend as well in coventry and hopefully the singhs there will clear up as many issues as possible, but i dont think thats appearing on the sc? At the same time there are people who are not aware of the facts and are misguided as you said, but on the other there are those who are just causing trouble for the sake of it, for example people trying to use this to create a divide between the sangat with sharda for the akj and sharda for the taksal. The akj fully support dasam granth sahib ji bani, but people will still try and force a wedge/create a wedge because they smell an opportunity! Be smart singho, dont fall for the trap!

The people talking about getting the disney channel etc are obviously taking the pee. Lets use common sense and see the tongue in cheek.

The Sikh Channel's actions during this event have been utterely disgraceful and cowardly. People who were not there and did not have any part to play cannot comment/attack as to put it bluntly, you dont have a clue whats going on! The Sikh Channel staff admitted that there were getting so many phone calls from certain people who even present on the channel shouting at them not to show the darbar! This is Guru Maharajh's bani and darbar and these people are doing all they can to stop it being shown. Thousands of pounds were collected by sevadars to pay for the braodcast. All sikh channel did was turn up, they were paid to be there, this was not out of their panthic duty or pyar that they turned up. They were PAID to be there. Once there they started the jokes. The cameras were setup around 5 i believe, but then suddenly just before bhog of dsasam granth is about to start, a 'techincal problem' occurs. Strangly never happened at any prev live programs. Also strange as they even admitted that this was a lie and reality was they didnt want to broadcast the paath from hapening!! Sangat need to think long and hard about this now. Their people who saying 'we have to keep everyone happy etc' this was the justification given to stop the broadcast minutes before it went live. As singh said, bhog was delayed for over an hour while the channel was being convinced to hold true to its word (especially after having taken the money!!) and show the live showing. Sharam di gal ah that singhs had to argue for an hour in the snow with the channel team doing beantia after benthia to show the path. But its seems that anti panthic people have really got their claws into everything now. Its shocking that the sangat through their own money paid for 3 hours of broadcasting, but in the end around 2hours 30 mins was done. You may say its only 30 mins, but that 30 mins cost A LOT of MONEY, trust us!! The channel is being forced and pushed around by anti panthic people, who come on shows and talk big. None of these fools sending texts cussing the singhs and taksal and cussing guru sahib ji's bani had the nuts to turn up on the day! We had so many messages going around about people wanting to protest and attack the singhs because the path was being done. Well where the heck where these soorme?! If you gona send crap out then they should have turned up and seen what happened. Sending texts from sims and then throwing the sim card away after if cowardice. You have shown yourselves up for what you are. With Maharajhs beant kirpa the dasam darbar and barsi was very chardi kala, beant sangat were blessed with gurbani and many many also had the blessings to receieve amrit as well on the final day. The sangat was amazing, the kirtan, katha, satkar for maharajh, everything was breathtaking. May maharajh bless the sangat to continue doing parchar and smagams like this, may baba ji continue to do kirpa on the singhs to do their seva. And may the ninadks continue their brave brave morcha of sending text messsages, emails, and making phone calls to a channel that is too scared to make any real stance on this issue. Bravo!

Who are you to say this nonsense. This site does support dasam granth sahib. You will be reported to Admin. lol who u 2 report me? hve i said anyfink against dasam granth or in favour? i js said itz da best way 2 stp argumnts,as the commitee seems anti n da oragnisers in favour of dasam granth - look hw insecure u r js read ur post m8 - on abt reportin me wht hve i dne wrng which breakz rulez? The Gurdwara committee are 100% in favour of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Gurbani. They have been requesting the singhs to do a Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Akhand Path/Sehaj Path at the Gurdwara Sahib for a very long time. The only people causing a fuss are nameless strangers who have no understanding of gurbani and history (sorry if that sounds hankari, but too much nindia of gurbani is being done). Just to repeat in case anybody is still confused with the stance of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji on Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. Sant Ji 100% believed in the bani of Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. They did katha of the bani, they did equal parkash of the dasam granth saroop etc. It is amazing that people who claim to be supporters of Sant Ji and still doubt Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. These people call Dasam Granth supporters RSS agents... so they are also calling Sant Ji a member of the RSS. Please stop the nindia and come to the programe and show your support to our father Guru Gobind Singh Ji and their Gurbani. Anti Panthis and anti Sikhi agents are trying to break us from Dasam Bani, lets not fall prey to their actions. Some of these may well be our 'leaders' and 'friends'. Just remember it has to be the Guru and Gurbani first, all else second. Either pick your guru and gurbani or your friends and family.

The Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Sehaj Path Bhog will definetly be taking place on the wednesday at the Gurudwara Sahib, as was done last year as well. Hope to see you all there. (Information received from the Singhs actually doing the seva of arranging the barsi and the Singh reading the sehaj paath etc)

If anyone wishes to organise a protest, it would be more beneficial to arrange them outside the offices (canada/india/wherver else they may be based)of the dera. Doing them anywhere else will not (in my view) be of great benefit. High commissions etc can ignore the protests easily as they are fully aware that the sikh community will NOT turn violent. Since they have this assurance they can just sit by and watch. Generally in our western experience, protest marches have not achieved a great deal. If however we do wish to create some noise etc then outside the dera offices will make them think carefully about the state of their property and people outside of India. Think new, think smart. bal sandhu .. I truely think that unless we provide the types of things these people are providing, their followers will have little need to come back to the path. The small groups of singhs doing parchar are doing their part. But the western sikhs need to be arranging the health/drug/prison care which needs money and organisation. For a poor desperate person he needs the basics, food, clothing, shelter, chance for a future (education/jobs), for many people these things are of importance before religion. We have to face this truth. The gurus built hospitals, wrestling akharas etc for the benefit of the people. we have fallen from their examples. Khalsa aid needs to be supported and other groups should also put their efforts into making real change in panjab.

Im sure the thinkers amongst you will be considering what we need to do to challenge this guy. Also ... sadly have a think about what we can learn from this guy. Sadly sadly sadly our own org's are not doing (collectively under one roof) the kind of stuff these people are (with regards to social efforts). the one to one discussions with gianni/katha vachacks should be happening, but they dont. After kirtan/katha the parcharaks often leave straight away, so any questions/doubts go unanswered. In the news there was meant to be a letter of apology that was sent to the akal takhat in 2002 from ashutosh which was rejected by the panj singhs. has anyone seen this letter, or git a copy? Would be useful to see what they apologised for? Paper article Lets start thinking smart singho, tactics need to be part of an overall strategy. If something does not work, lets not be afraid to change the way we do it.

Before going into battle, one should spend at least a little time to try and understand their enemy. Unfortunetly we have developed a habit of rushing in head first and not thinking, this was not how Sikhs used to operate. One of our strongest points was our ability to think, strategise and make the best use of our often limited man power and resources. Looking at the enemy first will also give you an idea of their strong and weak points. From this you can decide where to concentrate your attacks and where to not waste your time. A further post regarding strategy will be posted later, but i just wanted to share some really really basic points with you all. If we do the most basic research on the Divya Jyoti Jagran Sansthan (Pakhani Ashutosh) theres some revealing information that comes to hand. Lets take a look at their website ... www.divyajyoti.org From first glance it is obvious that this is a well organised project which focuses on marketing and its 'one human race' message. If you look through their articles you will find it all about the kind of thing which people love to read. One-ness of humankind, enlightenment etc etc. In their spiritual section you will see that the majority of their parchar (according to the site at least) seems to be on Hindu figures, ie krishan and ram and shiva. Take a look at the services they offer their followers and you will see that One to one discussions available with both male and female preachers are available after each 'sangat'. This would explain the complete faith their followers seem to have. Any questions or doubts are erased through these sessions. They also have a large social issues branch and deal with prisoner welfare, youth, drugs, health etc. This would explain the holding they have with organisations like UNESCO due to doing these kind of projects and then making sure the world knows about them. The prisoner thing is particularly interesting ... "The organization is continuously working towards betterment of life of the inmates. Thousands of inmates have been initiated to the Brahm Gyan (Divine Knowledge) by the divine grace of His Holiness Shri Ashutosh Maharaj Ji." http://divyajyoti.org/prisoner_reform.php This may explain why we often face a lot of violence from their followers, maybe those inmates who were once violent are used for security now? perhaps? In the various photos on the web you will notice a lot of dastars and full beards amongst his followers. Interestingly ....Ashutosh himself seems to be missing from all of the pics!! Unless i missed him, in the pics that are available, it seems that his picture is put on a chair but he isnt there? Is this done for personal security reasons? Is he ever present? Does he ever attend the duration of the events? These are questions we need to look into ... From the web i have also found the office details for both the Toronto Canada and Delhi India offices ... Office in India Divya Jyoti Jagrati Sansthan (Divine Light Awakening Mission) Pocket OCF, Plot No.: 3, Parvana Road, (Behind Pushpanjali Enclave) Pitampura Extension Delhi - 110034, India. phone numbers 091-11-27020666, 27024555, 27027484 Office in Canada Divine Light Awakening Mission, 24 Taber Road, TORONTO, ONTARIO, - M9W-3A5, CANADA, (Major Intersection Kipling and Rexdale) 1-647-838-7307, 1-416-746-7100

3 police wale injured. The DSP who shot Shaheed Bhai Darshan Singh got attacked by a Singh with a kirpan. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh The DSP was chased by Bhai Bittu with a Kirpaan. Its a shame he didnt catch him, he deserves to have his head removed. If possible lets get the names of the police/officials involved and make them public. There may/may not (probably not) be an enquiry into the murders, and we need the names to put pressure on the police and government. If we dont apply pressure then police will feel that they can get away with killing sikhs and no consequences. It is our duty to try all avenues, including using the courts as well as dealing with our own hands. Does anyone also know whether the aushutosh gathering actually happened as well or not? Also what collaboration was there with the nakli ashutosh and the police? Was he involved in getting the police to fire? Who gave the orders etc? Let think ahead about the info we will need before those that know get picked up off the streets and dissapear.

How many police were injured or killed? Why is it always Singhs being killed? Kirpans and guns must be for more then just show. How many Sikh Gunmen/bodyguards were with the sikh leaders during the protesters? If Sikh gunmen were present and 5/6 singhs have been killed with no enemy in return then those guns need to be taken off them and given to people who have the knackers to use them, when needed.

One elder Singh once told me something that he had heard from a Christian ... he said, 'Today it seems that everyone is prepared to die for God, but noone is prepared to live for God'. The words seem to ring more and more true every day that passes. So many of us seem to talk of the greatness of sacrifice, but we fail to kill our minds daily, we fail to die from the inside daily. We fail to die for God today, but desire to die for him tomorrow. We fail to keep our amritvela, control our minds etc, the daily struggle, but have this dream of going out in a blaze of glory and hoping that this will make everything ok. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji had 3 things that he preached over and over; Bani Paroh - Read Gurbani Amrit Shakoh - Take Amrit from the Panj Pyareh Singh Sajoh - Become decorated as Singhs the sons of the Guru Sant Ji also taught us how to live. He reminded us how to die as well through his katha of old warriors etc, but first and foremost was how to LIVE as a SIKH. Maybe we all need to stop, think and start living. Once we start living, the dying will be easy.

If the information is credible then pass it onto these guys .. http://www.redress.org/ This is the organisation that tried to have muhammed alam and sanjeev gupta (police officers guilty of human rights abuses and genocide in punjab) tried when they visited the UK a few years ago. Unfortunetly was not succesful then, but may be different now.

If this is another attack by cowardly enemies of the panth, its just another large step down the steep ladders to narak. Maharajh kirpa karan and may they forgive us for more mistakes made by not ensuring adequate care and security for Guru Sahib.

Bro, how are you getting confused?? The poster very clearly said that the committee asked them to show how much income the gym was making, they demonstrated that no income was being made as any money received was spent on maintenance and equipment. This would obviously be done by showing documentation. Thats it. Simple. People who have experience dealing with committees will know that their main focus seems to be about making more and more money. In their minds the gym would be making a profit, for the youngsters, the gym would make a difference (regardless of profit or loss). The fact that the gym was not making money annoyed the old boys. Having personally spoken to the committe itself in the past, I am aware of just how 'polite' they can be. I would venture that their concerns with the gyms income had nothing what so ever to do with the gurdwaras accounts of tax status. They themselves probably have absolutely NO idea of procedure. I think you are giving them too much credit if you think that was the cause of the disagreement bro! In the 80's a lot of shady people skimmed money from gurdwaras through various schemes, and many of the guys in charge now are from that same generation. Although they may not have directly taken money, the mindset that "somebody somewhere must be stealing it", has never left their minds. Try sitting through a few committee meetings and see how often this accusation or hints at the accusation crop up! They seem to assume that the youngsters are doing the same as their generation did. Shame really. Bottom line is, the committee acted like a bunch of baboons, they pushed their weight and got pushed back. You reap what you sow. Lets just hope the youngsters can sort things out there. Keep strong, its going to be a long and tough journey.

You talk about the Sikh Channel as if you are aware of an ulterior motive or some great conspiracy behind the keep it free campaign. Either that or you just want to put doubt in peoples minds so that they don't contribute. With all due respect you talk about transparency yet many of us support other groups who have no transparency and carry an element of internal risk and yet they are considered legit simply because they use the taksali or jatha label to hide behind. Where are fully published accounts, 3 year strategic plans, legal status and what not of the other groups you all fully back because your mates run it? Transparency and Sikh institutes don't go together and very rarely do. Write to any jathebhandi asking them for information regarding their trustees, funds, plans, legal position and watch either no response or some out of date generic reply. Context? Why not look at the tangible as well as intangible benefits and let the sangat assess that before implementing doubt in their minds. Look at what has and what can the Sikh Channel achieve regardless of it not being run by any of your chums. If this Sikh Channel carrys some dangerous conspiracy that will destroy the panth then why has no one else felt strong enough to set a Channel up themselves which ticks all these panthic boxes? Again, it's simple nit-picking which stalls any progression for our community. Maybe im not doing it for either of the reasons you have suggested. I havent once said their was a conspiracy (that was you) and i dont see how asking for accounts or how the costs are broken down is creating doubts?? Are you that sensitive that simple straight forward questions can make you feel that way?! Yes your right, other groups do lack transparancy, but they have a history of producing results, and for many people that fact outweighs any transparancy issues. Anything new is always going to be subject to questions. Thats the nature of the world, you have to accept that fact. Further to this, the lack of transpancy has led to a LOT of problems for the panth for a long long time. If were starting something new, then why not do it properly? Again how is that a problem for you? When your talking to me, talk to me. If you want to start mentioning my 'chums' then we going to have a problem. Most of the events you see featured on the Channel are by 'my chums', a lot of the content they play has also been submitted by 'my chums'. So take a long deep breath about your conspiracy theroies! I have already said, I think the Channel is doing good stuff - so much for your angle of attack there! Regardless of who runs it, my friends or not (and again i have previously said that on a personal note i do know people involved in contributing to the content and production etc) but through discussions with them, the answers are not found. Iv got no idea what your 'context' rant is about, the only reason i used that word was to get people to calm down and not blow things out of proportion! lol i.e. all this talk about conspiracies etc! People did try setting up a Channel but due to finance issues (and copyright issues) that project seems to have come to a standstill. Mala your taking things wayyy to personally, i for one am not criticising the channel for what it is doing, simply asking questions about how it is going about it. IF the project is about input and listening to feedback then there is nothing wrong with this. Take a deep breath, my questions are aimed as constructive questions. (for example if the channel produced a proper breakdown and approached businesses, they could decide to sponser a certain segment or show, if they see what it actually involves, the more likely people are to take part. From being involved in diff projects over years, experience shows that simply asking for money doesnt produce as good results as when you say this is what we need, this is what we have got so far, this amount of money will pay for this, if we raise £x we can afford to run these shows, this documentary needs £x or volunteers etc people take you more seriously that way). But nah im just nitpicking hunah.

To be honest it is embarassing the way they are operating (money wise). Still no accounts or constitution have been released, but instead more and more and more requests for cash. People have tried contacting the Channel on a number of issues, but no responses are given. Surely by now, the Channel should be able to declare its legal status, its breakdown of costs, realistic future plans for production etc to enable the sangat to better support and help develop the Channel - if that is really what they want. And whatever your own seva, lets not assume that others do, or do not do seva, themselves. People may be working around the clock for the Panth, how can we possibly comment on their actions? Over the years I have seen people who have dedicated their lives for seva (in the real world - cannot say who as they would beat me senseless lol ), occasionaly they have come onto the forum to make sangat aware of different things, and people have accussed them of all sorts pointing fingers, asking them what they do etc. They simply get abused and leave, they are hardly going to try and refute things by saying what they actually do are they. So lets just chill out and take things in context.

I know that the Sikh Community and Youth Service in Nottingham have been active in responding to this situation. I believe as soon as rumours of this were heard that they began contacting the UK, Indian and Pakistan embassies for information and to make sure they paid due attention to the situation. There has been various correspondence (to and fro) since this began about what the emabssies and the authorities were doing . UK MPs have also been written to and lobbyed on the issue, press releases made etc. I recall somebody saying that the pakistani govt was going to compensate a certain number of Sikh refugees with money. But it only came to around £80 worth of aid. And that was for feeding, clothing, buying a new house, work etc as all these families had to leave everything behind. So i think the group is trying to lobby to have this looked at again. I think they are talking to ministers and officials to guarantee the safety of the refugees. But if anyone does want to help then try contacting them as they do seem to have contact with the right people in the UK and Pakistan now.

Thanks guys! Like you said the online versions are really at odds with each other, anybody of any book which may have the full written version in addition to the one provided above, would be good to cross reference the text to check its the same (unless both books have quoted each other!) The sikiwiki site and the global studies text seems to match, but again like you said not too sure of the tranlsations. Is there any katha of this anywhere?

Sighs ... Please tell me where anyone anywhere has ever stated that by doing these paaths will get you mukhi? Please show me anywhere on the website or anywhere else, where anyone has said that anything is PROMISED after these paaths. You will find that nothing is promised and nothing is guaranteed. Reason being, we are BEGGING at Guru Jis feet. We are doing ardas after ardas after ardas. It is up to him how and when he decided to do kirpa. As his children all we can do is beg. If people are reading gurbani and doing ardas for justice, and chardikala, how is that not reading gurbani with truth in their hearts? How is that any less important then anything else? You keep talking about numbers but you havent grasped the concept. Let me break this down for you. When a person starts reading gurbani or doing simran, he may first try and do 5 mins of simran. Then after a while he increases to 10 mins, then to 20 etc. When a person starts doing nitnem, he may start with japji sahib only, then might do rehras sahib as well.. slowly building upto 7 bania. Then he starts reading more, adding more simran, more mool mantar, starts doing sehaj paath etc. Slowly but surely the person increases the AMOUNT of nitnem/simran they do. This is how most sikhs imcrease their nitnem and jeevan. They set themselves targets, i will complete 25 angs of sehaj path today. I will do an extra 10 japji sahibs today. How is this any different from us saying, ok lets all collectively read more chaupai sahibs? If sangat from across the world is reading more gurbani how does that hurt you? Be it through any excuse, the fact is more gurbani is being read. The fact is that people who previoulsy never did any nitnem have started doing it now as a result of guru sahibs kirpa. Sangat have been spending an extra 15 mins, and hour, 2 hours if not more a day sitting down and focusing their minds on vaheguru and reading gurbani. Most human beings need some sort of motivation to get them going. We need this in almost every aspect of our lives. Nitnem and jeevan included. In this thread people have already posted examples of gurmukhs doing many many paath every day. The target was increased as i prev said on the request of the sangat. The singhs received emails saying that the sangat involved loved the fact that they would regulalrly sit together and do this paath. They said without some sort of target they felt they would get lazy again and needed this to keep them motivated to keep on doing this additional paath. Again what is wrong with increasing the bani we read? If i cannot read your mind (and i dont believe i have tried!) what makes you think you can read mine/peoples like me! If sangat thought they were people with special powers, why would they be doing bentia to guru sahibs charan? Why not use their 'powers' directly? Bhai sahib a dose of nimrata goes a long way as does having faith and parosa in guru sahib. Nobody has talked about magic etc, only yourself. Heres another benefit of sangat reading more gurbani for the panth (all of which has been mentioned on the site and other threads). If today we spend just 5 mins out of love for the guru and the panth reading gurabni, then tomorrow out of the same love for the guru and the panth we will spend 10 mins doing seva, slowly with kirpa this pyar increases and we become activitis for the panth. Bottom line is if we cared for the panth, we would do something for it everyday (as we do when we care for our families, children etc). The one thing we can all do, regardless of where we live, of what our financial position is, what our spiritual position is .. is to do ardas and read gurbani. By spending time thinking about the panth today we may do some more types of seva tomorrow. The strength for that seva will also come from gurbani. So it works from all angles. If you dont think the power of gurbani and ardas can change a persons karam, then thats a different topic and i think its been disucussed before on the forum somewhere. However, I am aware that even Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji would specifically do an additioanl chaupai sahib for the chardikala of the panth everyday. And bhai sahib, we are praying that maharajh do kirpa on others, that he give us justice and that he give the panth chardikala. If you dont think you yourself fit into either of those, then again thats your issue. And no once again nobody has said that. As explained above, the number thing is just a tool to read more gurbani. It seems you cannot look beyond this most minor of things. To be honest the only reason the additonal number was there was result of sangats requests, they said they wanted this so they could pukkah the additional nitnem they were doing. Once again please read the above. Your the only one again mentioning magic etc. The sangat believe in doing ardas and having sharda in maharajh. The singhs actually wanted to start other seva, but the sangat requested more. With Vaheguru ji's beant beant kirpa, in the UK at least 10-15 programmes were done since january to june. Hundreds of people were given seva of reading gurbani, thousands learnt about 1984 and our history, many youngsters learnt the bani so that they could take part etc. All down to vaheguru's kirpa. Some people cant handle anything thats outside their own understanding, and thats fine. The singhs have been sworn at, called bharamins, pakahandis, told that they will be going to hell etc its all good! All i know is that guru ji wants to us to live according to his orders, ie read gurbani, follow maryada, do seva etc etc. If that causes you to laugh at us then once again its fine. Singh above has said that maharajh himself did so many chaupai sahibs after finishing writing the bani. Sant jarnail singh ji had many many singhs do 125,000 paaths of japji sahib and of other paaths as well before the 1984 attack. I wont say that your saying this was black magic as well since these were also counted. But thats for yourself to decide. Anyway i apologise if you wish to drag this out further, these points have all been raised in prev threads so please read them if you wish. If you dont want to take part then its fine, dont. To rest of sangat, please come forward with ideas for more seva, singhs have one or 2 things they should be rolling out soon, but need your new ideas on how we can collectively do something. Remember we need ideas that sikhs from around the world can do, maybe some sort of organised collective seva. Please share ideas. Many thanks, and apologies for any mistakes. Sangat (not harry potter) holds the power (not black magic) to forgive, so please do forgive us. oh and sorry forgot to add, if you check the website audio, you will see different kathas on chaupai sahib. Also at many prog's the katha of the bani was done in both english and in punjabi. So hanji people are learning what the bani says as well as reading it. Maharajh does so much kirpa! :D

Why do you read gurbani? To praise Vaheguru and fall in love with him To do ardas To get strength to do seva To get strength to do seva to get justice ... do you see where this is going. Dont get confused by the numbers thing, thats just a tool to enable the mind to read more gurbani. With the strength of gurbani and ardas as can achieve anything. We use numbers all the time to help us in life. Eg work, studies etc. But for some reason only time people dont like numbers is when they do gurbani. Perhaps because if we did, we'd realise how little we actually did compared to all the other things we do. Just pray brother for strength and seva and all is in his hands!

Does anybody have access to the Khalsa soe joh ninda tyageh poem, tanka-nama (attributed to him). Im looking for the gurmukhi, english translation and audio as well if anyone has it please. There seem to be a couple of english translations on the net, but they have differnet lines in different order and some seem to be at odds with the other. Many thanks for your help!

With Guru ji's kirpa, the sangat will keep reading Chaupai Sahib's for the panths chardikala, and yeh whats wrong with 5 million, 10 million etc, its just targets to motivate people to read mroe gurbani. Theres nothing wrong in that at all. You say people think its silly ... silly to do what exactly? Read gurbani and doing ardas is silly? And what do you mean 'no matter how much path you do, everybody has their own account towards Waheguru'? Didint understand at all what your getting at there! Of course reading more gurbani matters! lol how do you do 1 million chaupai sahibs incorrectly? I think your one of these people that imagines Vaheguru to things with bolts of lightening and crack the earth open and swallow people! Sikhs reading more gurbani and dedicating time daily for the betterment of the panth is kirpa in itself. The additional paath target came from sangat requesting that they wanted a further target as it helped them read more and more gurbani and they enjoyed the comradeship it created amongst the sangat all working for the same cause - ie the panth. In your second post it seems you have realised that gurbani will help the post, but now your talking about 'making' amrithdharis'. Well good luck, as basic beggars at the door of guru ji, all we can do is do benti's and ardas and do whatever parchar we can to awaken the love for the panth. If your on a level where you can 'make' millions on amritdharis then please go ahead. Please do your part for the panth ... rather then just talk for the panth Sevadars have apologised for the massive delay in updating and informing the sangat, they got sidetracked in other projects, so please accept their apologies and please carry on praying and building love for the panth. At the same time they are asking that people volunteer new ideas (realistic ones i.e. not making 2.5 million amrithdharis) that we as a panth can work towards. We have sangat from 35 countries taking part. What can we collectively do to make a difference. Please share your ideas!

First of all, how do you know what he never EVER did? Where you there? Secondly, i recommend you READ what i wrote. Rather than ignore what you dont like. Read about how as the leader of damdami taksal Sant Jarnail Singh Ji carried on using the pothia written by previous gursikhs based on the teachings of sant gurbachan singh ji. His views and beliefs were those of the previous jathedhars. If you actually listened to his katha you would know this. By still referring to this as koor kiriyah you are now directly accusing sant ji of following 'useless hindu rituals' (even though hindu's dont even do this as jassa pointed out lol)! Make you mind up, either admit that sant ji (the only one who had the real strength to stand up to the threat of hinduvata etc) didnt see anything wrong with this or openly say that sant ji was a practioner and propogator of koorkireyah practices. Pick a side, you cant sit on the fence with this. Makes you look ridiculous. Sometimes if we dont understand something, its best just to say i dont understand rather than start insulting people. Again I repeat, if only sant gurbachan singh ji and sant kartar singh ji and sant jarnail singh ji had got their gian and wisdom and studied from you .. then their poor souls may have been saved. Go on, say it lol say you know more than sant gurbachan singh ji .. would love to see that!