hawk13

What u r quoting is not done by SOCALLED RAGIS have u listened to the verses sung by ragis then u reply verse at 7-45 sung by was RAMCHANDRA LEFT KINGDOM FO THE SAKE OF HIS PARENTS AND IF RAGIS HAVE TO QUOTE THEN THEY MUST QUOTE FULL STANZA. U SAY IAM ON THE WRONG FORUM IT IS U WHO R DEFENDING MANMAT NOT ME. THESE RAGIS R AGENTS OF HINDU FASTIST FORCES SOME OF DARBAR SHAIB RAGIS R ALSO DOING KIRTAN IN RESPECT OF GANGA THAT TOO IN SIKH RAGAS DO U LIKE DEFEND THEM?U CAN SEE CLIPPINGS OF THE SAME TIME7-45-8 AM

Iam just citing the facts . Never mind thanx for wishes hope everybody in this forum can share cake and party with me.

2 WEEKS BACK it was reported in INDIAN EXPRESS that a sikh offered money by indian intelligence agency raw to kill big religious and panthic leader that person seeked asylum in USA has said such groups are being raised by RAW . and he was one of them lower courts dismissed his submissions on the ground that not such agency existed but at the appellet stage this case was remanded back . This was the second big setback after defection of their top offcial RABINDER SINGH WHO WAS ALSO A SIKH BUT PATIT ONE. AND RAW OFFCIALS ARE PLANNING KILLINGS OF THESE PERSONS AND OPENLY SAID THAT PEOPLE WILL HEAR THEIR DEATHS EITHE IN SHOOTING OR IN ACCIDENT.INDIAN AGENCIES ARE THEMSELVES BIGGEST SPONSERS OF TERRORRISM AT INTERNATIONAL LEVEL

On 21st october on DUSSHERRA FESTIVAL at 8-45 -8am indian standard time in live telecast from durbar shaib AMRITSAR the ragis started KEERTAN in incomplete BANI and started praising FICTIOUS MAN RAMCHANDER IN GURDWARA ONLY KEERTAN AND KATHA OF AKALPURKAKH CAN BE HELD IN THE HOLIEST PLACE OF SIKHS THIS KIND OF MANMAT HAD CAUSED A DEPRESSION IN MY MIND Apart from this in DAMDAMA SHAIB GURDWARA in CHAMKAUR SHAIB INSIDE COMPLEX A MANDIR HAS BEEN CONSTRCTED I AM PAINED TO SAY THIS HAS BEEN DONE BY BUDDHA DAL NIHANGS AS THIS GURDWARA WAS IN POSSESSION OF BALBIR SINGH. CAN JASSA OR OTHER NIHANGS CAN CLARIFY BUT IT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO JASSA DO NOT TAKE IT PERSONALY I JUST WANT CLARIFICATION AS A HUMBLE SIKH. Apart from this in AMB SHAIB gurdwara on 11th september there was a katha going on in histroic place that was the KATHA OF SIVA AND ADVANTAGES OF SANYAS AND TAP. AS AND FURTHER KATHAVACHAK SAID GURU AMAR DASS JI GOT PUN OF BATHING IN GANGA AND GIVING DAN TO BRAHMINS THAT HE GOT GURUSHIP. SUCH A MANMAT WILL SUBVERT THE SIKHI. RAGIS DOING MANMATS SHOULD BE BOYCOTTED BY SANGAT.

Ur queries it seems r motivated by socalled sikh scholars who r infact bloddy communists SIKH NATIONAL CONCEPT IS COTAINED IN BEGUMPURA GIVEN BY GURU GRANTH SHAIB AND FOR THE FIRST TIME CONCEPT OF TRUE WELFARE STATE OR HALIMI RAJ WAS GIVEN. please compare other systems modern liberal system of democracy and communist stATE with medival KHALSA RULE UNLIKE MARXISTS WHO CLIAMED TO BE ANTI-RELIGION KILLED MORE THAN 30 MILLION NON COMMUNISTS IN SOVIET UNION BEFORE CRITICING COMMUNISTS AND HINDU FANATICS SHOULD SEE THEIR PAST HINDU FANATICS DURING ANCIENT TIMES KILLED COUTLESS BUDDHISTS AND THEIR RELIGIOUS PLACES WERE CONVERTED INTO MANDIRS BADRINATH IS SUCH EXAMPLE.Before making comments on sikh ideology and carried away by anti panthic propaganda u should read the track record and history.

NICE INFORMATION SHARED CAN I CIRCULATE TO OTHER SIKH SITES DO U HAVE COPY RIGHT VEER JI?PLEASE DO POST IN THIS REGARD.

Other anti sikh cults are RADHA SOAMI , DERA SIRSA, NOORMEHILAS, RSS, AND MANY SMALL DERAS , BANIARAWALA,FANATIC SADHUS, POLITIC GROUPS ARE CONGRESS ,BJP, COMMUNISTS . RSS AND COMMUNISTS HAVE INFLITRATED SIKH INSTITUTIONS BY THE EFFORTS OF BADAL AND TOHRAS.ANTI SIKH LEADERS IN AKALIS ARE B.S BHUNDER A LEFTIST, PS CHANDUMAJRA,AND IN AKALI DAL AMRITSAR ALL THEIR LAWYERS HAVE MORE LOYALTY FOR MARX THAN WITH SIKHISM.

Actualy DAYAL SINGH WAS THE FOUNDER OF NIRANKARIS ,DAYAL SINGH THE DEVOTED SIKH AND ENCOURAGED ANAND KARAJ He became a popular figure and still very respected his follwers are even today very devoted sikhs among them is noted sikh scholar MANN SINGH NIRANKARIS. A SMALL GROUP BROKE AWAY FROM THEM IN 1947 UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF FATHER OF NARAKDHARI GURBACHAN SINGH I DO NOT REMEMBER THE NAME OF FATHER OF NARAKDHARI GURBACHNA but he was most charecterless person encouraged free sex and wife swapping HE WAS SUPPORTED BY SARDAR PATEL. fanatic hindus and intelligence people helped him in big way as a result DELHI FACTION BECAME VERY STRONG.LEADER AND FOUNDER OF DELHI FACTION DIED A WORST DEATH FOUL SMELL COULD BE FELT UPTO SEVERAL MILES AS HE GOT PUNISHMENT FOR DEMEANING THE GURU NANAK DEV JI. GURBACHAN did not want to become chief as it is BELIEVED THAT HIS FATHER IS BELIEVED TO BE FIRST VICTIM OD AIDS HOW HE GOT THIS MONKEY DEASEASE U CAN UNDESTAND.GURBACHAN WAS MADE FORCIBLY CHIEF BY HIS MOTHER OTHERWISE HE WENT INTO HIDING FOR 7 DAYS. After becoming chief and seeing political and powerful officers as his followers he started demeaning and disgraceful campaign againist the sikhism . EVEN SIKH ARMY OFFICERS WERE USED TO BE ORDERED TO JOIN HIS CULT.ALL know rest of history.

I was out of order ......I really should not have responded in the way I did. Apoligies to admin. BTW I can post historical evidence on Vashnavite cults and how they have infiltrated Sikhism upon request. Some of the earliest anti-sikh cults were Sakhi sarvar BABA BUDDHA JI WAS ITS FOLLOWER BEFORE COMING INTO THE CONTACT OF GURU NANAK DEV JI. This has made them permanent enemy of SIKHISM ,THEIR DERAS ARE MUSHROOMING IN PUNJAB UNDER THE NAME OF NAU GAJA PIR IN 21TH CENTURY ALTHOUGH OUTLAWED IN ARAB NATIONS . Althogh GURU NANAK DEV JEE has already restrained sikhs from visiting their deras but u can see stupid slaveminded ,sikhs visiting their deras.T hey have opened big dera in chamkaur shaib recently.Another pir is near AMRITSAR DISTRICT WHO USED TO PROPAGATE HOMOSEXULITY DURING GURU ARJUN DEV JI TIMES. When that stupid fakir came to GURU JI to include his verses in GRANTH SHAIB GURU DID NOT ENTERTAIN HIM.He was one of the persons who complained to jahangir his MAZAR is still attracts hugh public in punjab. JOGIS and SIDHS along with some brahmins went to AKBAR to complain againist guru AMAR DASS JI they were supported by BIRBAL who at one time ordered the arrest of GURU RAMDASS JI very few people knew that birbal was sent to afhanistan as a punishment .

sorry for mistake grand father of Ajmer Chand got freed and thanks for editing I DO MAKE MISTAKES

lolz ... :nihungsmile: ... nihungan nu abuse karran da mokka koi hath choon nikal na jaye .... :WW: .... gussa ghat te tarras jeyada aunda tere wargeyan te .... challo rab ne jinni soch ditti hai oss toon agge banda thori ja sakda ... andron taan khushi hougi ki chall 4 nihung taan ghate ... ... anyways if i can remember very first clash between dera people and sikh were at bathinda it was with nihungs only ... search google for it .... khalsa is still alive we dont think ki police da case pay ju goli challan toon pehlan ... proud of them who shoot .... and may akal bless the panth next time it should be baba balbir singh .... baki tusi sarde raho .... te nindeya karranch lagge raho .... :lol: I do not want to demean the GURU KI FAUJ THE NIHANG SINGHS, nor I feel happy at the death of SINGHS main losers is panth. is it good to open fire near the gate of GURDWARA SHAIB I know of some greatt NIHANGS I come accross who r perfect in rehat. But NIHANGS FIGHTING AGAINIST THEMSELVES should know panth is surrounded by enemies like jhoota saucha , banirawala, noormehias and recently dera sher singh, RADHA SOAMIS who r opening deras in rural areas and near sikh historic places. I do not know real cause of rivalry between two nihang factions .Even I feel very enlighted when I visit the TEER SHAIB in PAONTA SHIAB WHICH IS MANAGED BY BUDDHA DAL. RADHA SOAMIS HAVE OPENED DERA NEAR THAT PLACE AND SEND THEIR AGENTS TO TEER SHAIB TO DIVERT SIKH SANGAT VISITING THE GURDWARA SHAIB THESE AGENTS ARE SUBVERTED SIKHS WITH FLOWING VISITS. INSTEAD OF COUNTERING DERA WAD NIHANGS HAVE STARTED FIGHTING EACH OTHER.ONLY IN SIKHISM THERE IS RELIGIOUS ARMY THERE ARE DESIGNS OF ANTI SIKH FORCES TO WEAKEN EACH SIKH INSTITUTION.

It is sad these killers of singhs are alive and enjoying life fully. when will their time come?

As per news recieved there is armed clashes between two groups of Nihangs in patiala near BUDDHA DAL school in PATIALA . These groups belong to rival groups of buddha dal 4 persons are dead unspecied numbers injured . According to media reports gun shots could be still heard. It is shameful NIHANGS USE THEIR SASTARS AGAINIST EACH OTHER.where were theirguns gone when sikhs were being attacked in BATHINDA,PATIALA, SANGRUR BY SIRSA DERA GOONS.It seems antipanthic forces have infilitrated the nihangs. In chamkaur shaib in tari shaib gurdwara wives of nihangs could be seen doing katha of RAMAYAN. In Amritsar district u can come accross blue NISHAN SHAIBS HOISTED ON TRISHULS.

u should write about the antisikh propaganda againist by MAHASAS arya samajis in 1909 how they used dirty words againist the GRANTH SHAIB and misdeeds of mahants. how LALA ( lajpat rai ) collected funds from sikhs and used it for spread of Arya samaj cult why lala hardyal got just 5 years and other sikh freedom fighters got death penalties. And attack on durbar shahib by police in 1955 in paouta shaib in 1963. burning of seven GURDWARAS in 1982 by rss men and attack on durbar shaib by a hindu mob led by rss men.

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੀਮ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਜਕ ਰਹੀਮ ਓਈ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਿ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਮਾਨਬੋ ॥ करता करीम सोई राजक रहीम ओई दूसरो न भेद कोई भूलि भ्रम मानबो ॥ Karta (The Creator) and Karim (Merciful) is the same Lord, Razak (The Sustainer) and Rahim (Compassionate) is the same Lord, there is no other second, therefore consider this verbal distinguishing feature of Hindusim and Islam as an error and an illusion. ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਏਕ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਜੋਤ ਜਾਨਬੋ ॥੧੫॥੮੫॥ एक ही की सेव सभ ही को गुरदेव एक एक ही सरूप सबै एकै जोत जानबो ॥१५॥८५॥ Thus worship the ONE LORD, who is the common enlightener of all; all have been created in His Image and amongst all comprehend the same ONE LIGHT. 15.85. ਦੇਹਰਾ ਮਸੀਤ ਸੋਈ ਪੂਜਾ ਔ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਓਈ ਮਾਨਸ ਸਬੈ ਏਕ ਪੈ ਅਨੇਕ ਕੋ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਉ ਹੈ ॥ देहरा मसीत सोई पूजा औ निवाज ओई मानस सबै एक पै अनेक को भ्रमाउ है ॥ The temple and the mosque are the same, there is no difference between a Hindu worship and Muslim prayer; all the human beings are the same, but the illusion is of various types. Read what has been highlighted in red. Gurujee has also stated the illusion others are caught in. ਅਲਹ ਅਭੇਖ ਸੋਈ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਅਉ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਓਈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਸਭੈ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਬਨਾਉ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥੮੬॥ अलह अभेख सोई पुरान अउ कुरान ओई एक ही सरूप सभै एक ही बनाउ है ॥१६॥८६॥ Allah of Muslims and Abhekh (Guiseless) of Hindus are the same, the Puranas of Hindus and the holy Quran of the Muslims depict the same reality; all have been created in the image of the same Lord and have the same formation. 16.86. Gurujee is saying that the Hindu and Muslim scriptures are the same. Where is He equating them to Gurbani? BYrau BUq sIqlw DwvY ] bhairo bhooth seethalaa dhhaavai || One who chases after the god Bhairau, evil spirits and the goddess of smallpox, Kr bwhnu auhu Cwru aufwvY ]1] khar baahan ouhu shhaar ouddaavai ||1|| is riding on a donkey, kicking up the dust. ||1|| hau qau eyku rmeIAw lYhau ] ho tho eaek rameeaa laiho || I take only the Name of the One Lord. Awn dyv bdlwvin dYhau ]1] rhwau ] aan dhaev badhalaavan dhaiho ||1|| rehaao || I have given away all other gods in exchange for Him. ||1||Pause|| isv isv krqy jo nru iDAwvY ] siv siv karathae jo nar dhhiaavai || That man who chants ""Shiva, Shiva"", and meditates on him, brd cFy faurU FmkwvY ]2] baradh chadtae ddouroo dtamakaavai ||2|| is riding on a bull, shaking a tambourine. ||2|| mhw mweI kI pUjw krY ] mehaa maaee kee poojaa karai || One who worships the Great Goddess Maya nr sY nwir hoie AauqrY ]3] nar sai naar hoe aoutharai ||3|| will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. ||3|| qU khIAq hI Awid BvwnI ] thoo keheeath hee aadh bhavaanee || You are called the Primal Goddess. mukiq kI brIAw khw CpwnI ]4] mukath kee bareeaa kehaa shhapaanee ||4|| At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4|| gurmiq rwm nwm ghu mIqw ] guramath raam naam gahu meethaa || Follow the Guru's Teachings, and hold tight to the Lord's Name, O friend. pRxvY nwmw ieau khY gIqw ]5]2]6] pranavai naamaa eio kehai geethaa ||5||2||6|| Thus prays Naam Dayv, and so says the Gita as well. ||5||2||6|| Bhagat Naamdev Jee is glorifiying surrender to SatGuruJee. Where is he glorifying the Gita? He says that even the Gita asks one to surrender to the true Guru! Note how he speaks against worshipping deities, so how can he say that Gita is an authority? As per my limited knowledge on Gita, I am not sure if Shri Krishan told Arjun to worship deities. ibAws ibcwir kihE prmwrQu rwm nwm sir nwhI ]2] biaas bichaar kehiou paramaarathh raam naam sar naahee ||2|| After deep contemplation, Vyaas spoke of the supreme objective; there is nothing equal to the Lord's Name. ||2|| Where is this saying that Vyaas ji was looked upon as an authority by Bhagat Ravidas Jee? This dude needs to know what the definition of "authority" is. No wonder he is trying to discredit the authority of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, because he doesn't know what is the meaning of the word authority. Punjabi Link veeray, the retard who sent you this garbage needs immediate medical treatment. If an <banned word filter activated> like me can easily find flaws in his arguments, I don't think you should bother about anything he says. My knowledge in Gurbani is peanut-sized. May the sangat and Gurujee forgive me for any mistake I may have made, and may some other Guru pyaare who have tons of more gyaan please correct me wherever I am wrong. nice job singh shaib u have cleared everything but we must also 10 times more demeaning to antisikh people.

Actually that scholar gave rare information as he has spent more than 30 years on that particular reasearch he said that none of the indian ragas match matches SIKH RAGAS as mode is distinct from indian ragas there different type of stop and pause in THE GURBANI unlike indian ragas gurvani must be sung in that form. Unfotunately even I used to think differently why dancing is banned in gurmat as the indian raga has negligle link with SIKH RAGAS. In 1994 some kathak dancers did sing sikh ragas in dancing form but shockingly no sikh group took note of it despite the fact that it was a conpricacy by antisikh forces.

Just last month I came to know about a important fact that during a address by a sikh scholar in a GURDWARA SHAIB in delhi that SIKH RAGAS are not taken from indian music system in indian ragas there are two ragas one north and other south in both systems there are just 3 ragas. In GRANTH SHAIB there are 32 ragas and tone of singing is according to pattern of grammer and tone in GRANTH SHAIB AND IS ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT THAN INDIAN RAGAS IN INDIAN RAGAS THERE ARE 3 RAGAS AND OTHERS ARE RAGINIS. In south indian pattern ragas are sung in dancing form.So RAGAS contained in GURU GRANTH SHAIB ARE NOT THEINDIAN RAGAS .Further in hindu belief DEEPAK ut in RAGA is consisdered dangerous but in sikhism it is asgood as others RAGAS .BHUL CHUK MAUF I WILL WELCOME ANY INFORMATION FROM THE MEMBERS.

Ajmer chand descendants got freed by guru hargobind ji along with 52 kings but they were very ungrateful even upto the time of ranjeet singh hilly dogras betrayed the panth even GURU GOBIND SINGH JEE saved the life od ajmer chand and bhim singh many times but ajmerchand sent messengers for help to AURANGJEB IN DECCAN to mislead the emperor that GURU JEE IS GOING TO OVERTHROW THE MUGHALS AND HIMSELF BECOME KING this was in1701.HI which resulted in last battle of Anandpur shaib many historian calls Wazir khan as faujdar of sirhind BUT INFACT HE WAS ONE OF THE PILLARS OF MUGHALS EMPIRE and Sirhind being second capital of Punjab was more important than LAHORE.AND wazir khan was the governor of not only punjab but also head of the KABUL FAUJDAR. In the hitorical books of himachal veryy false details of sikhs lootings have been published and very demeaning comments on GURU JI have been made.

Dear brother u r wrong it is the Gursikhs and Amritdharis who r looked down upon by Patit or mona sikhs go and watch the attitude of patits in punjab very few people like to give their daughters in marriage to gursikhs and under influence of anti-sikh media and bollywood sikh girls prefer patits even bhayias . In Punjab even sikh girls prefer to marry BHIyas migrant from U.P ,Bihar then marry a gursikhs as they r falling prey to anti sikh forces like RSS and COMMUNISTS to ethicnic cleaning of sikhs even in histroric Gurdwara u come accross migrants who have no respect for sikhi stay there and many times loots the GOLAK .It is rather pure sikhs who face discrimination not the patits.

What to celebrate killing of 10 lakh sikhs on this day in west Punjab? Forget about Khalistan pay a homage to sikhs who died. In world war second 7 lacs sikhs died in total 17 lacs out of 38-40 lacs not even a single dhoti topi wala said a word about it. sikhs were pushed to one bucther to another monster.Futher both pak and india were free from british rule on 14 august but due to some pandits moohrat 15 august was fixed. Those came to rule us who were the robbers . What u want to celebrate?The celebration of rape of 2 million sikh women? r ather it should be celebrated as black day . I am not talking of Khalistan or any politics just think of reason.

Even before 1984 goverment did use force in DURBAR SHAIB and GURDWARA for example in 1955 ,1959 there were no SANT JI or no armed singhs police did OPENT fire in the complex at that time there was some tension in indo-china relations in 1961 j n nehru came to AMRITSAR and appolosised as india needed sikh support the person who opened fire was SP AMRITSAR PURAN SINGH . puran singh within half hour after he fired from his.455 revolver got strange type of ailment of burning of skin and foul smell coming from the body which strated increasing onsomeone advise he was taken to durbar shaib at midnight when he appologised then he could be cured as in the firing A GURSIKH DOING ARDASS WAS MARTYED. even K SUNDERJEE died miserably of spcific ailment which makes the all body parts dead but still person remains alive in miserably this deasease affects humans rarely. In paonta shaib gurdwara 13 nihangs were martyed while akand path in1963 . Singhs by killing ati sikh people were doing a great favor to these people they were destined to die more miserably . similiarily those peole who did beadbi of GURU GRNATH SHAIB on orders of baniarawala died miseraly woman who was the main mastermind died badly and his two sons who were involed also died miserably dying bt the hands of singhs could have been easier.Topic Closed

This article is full of lies first biggest lie is it was KAIRO who tried to divide the sikhs into jats and nonjats duing PUNJABI SUBA agitation not the british kairo publicaly called khatris as bhappas and akalis as bhappa party. indepedent India tried to divide the sikhs into castes secondly during GURDWARA REFORM MOVEMENT all sikhs took part. It was the only successful movement againist britishers all movements failed miserably like quit india movement remained for 2 weeks only swadesi movement also failed. socalled brave freedom figters spirits were brought down by lathis unlike sikhs who faced death boldly. Second lie was the most of sikhs who joined khalsa were jats in ANANDPUR SHAIB It was tribal sikhs not khatri or jats who joined KHALSA IN 1705 BAISAKHI TWO AND HALF LAC SIKHS JOINED KHALSA FOLD in DAMDAMA SHAIB. i AM againist casteist articles but iam correcting it. Even during wars with pakistan and china these were in fact sikh-pak and sikh china wars. It was again the INDIA who used sikhs recent example is in KARGIL where tiger hill was capured by 8th sikh regiment and awards went to mahasas .If hindus were brave what happened to them at kargil where socalled brave indian army was humbled by para milatary force of pakistan and lost fighter planes indian press is misinterpreting the history.In some of the gun battles in kashmir troops just run away do not be paper tigers.

U R talking outdated u say religion based states r cruel see the genocide commited by BLOODY LENIN during RUSSIAN REVOLUTION communists killed 5 million innocent people and TZAR who quited was killed and his sons aged 10 and 13 were beheaded and their remains were discovred in 1991. STALIN killed 5 crore people and among his victims were FORMER SOVIET president gorvachov families stalin,s intelligence agencies used to kidnap young newly born kids to recrit them as loyal communist fighter. RUSSIA commited excesses in HUNGRY, POLAND ,CHEKVOSLOVIA AND AFGANISTAN PROVED THEIR waterloo STALIN AND LENIN are biggest killer of human beings than islamic fanatics u talk about cuba where daily people r leaving and was biggest sponser of terorrism and was responsible for the missile crisis in1963 I will prefer all leftists to be killed in same manner as they killed other people then wronly claim tha only religious people are blood thirty . see what the naxallites in india r doing they kidnap yong chindren and cutt off their bodyparts and wipe out children of tribals who do not support them.throw the lenin stalin and marx books in drain .

See veer ji u have put up a good question I as a young boy along with my family was surrounded by 500 mob in 1984 I just took my shotgun and aimed at main power lines so that with single shot live wire could have burst and felt on mob killing most of them my target will be to kill all then u can end up killing 100 or so. in single combat karete skills are best along with dobble edged kashmiri kirpans if need be use it in split second every martial art is good but revolver not the pistol is the handy weapon in case of mob or group attacks shotguns and rifles r very useful particular bugshots r good even .22 rifles r simplest and best to use. Even GATKA IS USEFUL recently jhoota sauda men armed with rifles were overpowered by 24 singhs expert in GATKA and dera chief has to run after leaving one of his shoes. BHUL CHUK MAUF EVEN IAM NOT MASTER BUT A HUMBLE SINGH How many people did you kill by shooting the power lines with your shot gun? They just ran away with just one shot leaving behind their weapons it was in air second i was aimed at lines even i was surprised by their reactions they were all sheep in front of a single singh what will u do in this situation