Labour Is Pro-Sikh

[randip singh]

I think it is a case of you being a wishy washy socialist.

Kutas you’ve lost your pyjama

There is NOTHING wrong with Socialism, or wishy washy about it…………….Liberal Democrats are just a mish mash of old ex-Right Wing Labour (Social Democrats) and clueless do gooder Liberals………….. …………….but hey yound pretty niave when it comes to politics…….

"New" Labour has nothing to do with socialism.

New Labour is about using modern means to re-distribute wealth……….and not your traditional methods such as re-nationalisation, which clearly has been proven not to work………..

As for distributing wealth, yes they have done a great job at making the rich even richer.

Are you a school child……………?

The Institute for Fisical Studies, has clearly pointed out that those on lower incomes and with children are clearly better off that those with incomes of £40 K +

http://www.ifs.org.uk/wps/wp0221.pdf

SO GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT AND LESS OF THE SOAPY SPIN! :cool:

Whilst people working in the public sector are faced with drastic changes to their pensions, MPs under Labour have had their accrual rate altered so they accrue pensions at an even higher rate, judges who invariably come from the upper classes will not be hit by new capping rules on pension funds. So all in all yes a great job "New Labour" have done in making the rich even more better off.

The Public Sector needs reform (having worked there, I can tell you it is full of wasters) and sorting out and as the IFS has clearly stated the poorer sections of society are better off…………

One of the side effects of a successful economy is that you will get richer people and those that have taken risks to start businesses and actually create jobs and wealth should see a return…………..its only fair…….

Those on higher incomes will accrue higher pensions and a higher rate………….do I have to give you a lesson in economics too………..?

Look at the statistical facts quoted by another veer and you will see that in % terms Labour are not as pro Sikh as you like to pretend.

You mean those damn lies?........................40 Labour Governemnt Ministers sign motions to support Sikhs and yet they are racist?....................you need your head examined……………..maybe your pugh is tied to tight?

As for Iraq etc if you seriously believe that it was all down to intelligence failures then you are living in dream land.

You really have no clue have you?

Now let me give you a lesson how Governemnt Works eg Housing……………the Housing Minister will base projected figures on demand and supply on what Civil Servants and Local Authorities tell them from data and figures they collect………….

The same for the MOD…………they rely heavily of intelligence and what their advisors tell them………….

My own take is that war was inevitable with Iraq whether the intelligence was there or not……….

As far as arms sales go if a government is serious about human rights abuses then they would use sanctions to block sales as has been the case against the Chinese for a while. Early day motions are nothing as nothing comes about from them.

The net effect of arms sales or not would be negligible in the case of India……………

Strange how Labour forgot the Kirpan issue right until an election was called.

I think you live in a political fantasy world………..

Sikhs are not that an important a priority when compared to the NHS, Immigration, the Economy…………that’s a fact………and no party has treated the Kirpan issue as a priority…………….so again…………GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!

Reminds me of the way Blair raises the Palestine issue whenever he is going to do anything in Iraq then forgets about it after everyhting is done and dusted.

Well actually, there are talks going on now over Palestine…………….put your copy of Beano away and start reading the papers……………. :doh:

So please GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT SUNSHINE before you don the role of a "new" Labour spin doctor.

Look Child…………..you stick to spinning your CD’s and records and leave politics and other issues to us adults…… :doh:

[Jeevan]

As a Labour supporter and what I call a Loyalist, the New Labour Project failed to reform the Public Sector full stop. I too have worked in the public sector and it is full of time wasters. Billions are wasted in not securing the best price & quality for goods and services. You need to sack workers and particularly managers and directors who fail manage effectively.

You cannot give billions of £ to public sector organisations who have a track record of waste and inefficiency. The Labour government has failed to raise wages and benefits for the lower paid but at the same time give out billions to contract staff where a permanent employee could do the job.

During the 2001 period when Indo Pak relations were at a record low and there was a possibility of conflict, the British government was quite happy to sell arms to both countries at the same time asking them to seek diplomacy to resolve differences.

Indian Politicians are crooks in Nehru style suits, the Western politicians are crooks in Armani, and Boss suits. PM Blair ordered an illegal war in Iraq if he cannot respect the rule of war why should the common man on the street have respect for authority.

[randip singh]

As a Labour supporter and what I call a Loyalist, the New Labour Project failed to reform the Public Sector full stop. I too have worked in the public sector and it is full of time wasters. Billions are wasted in not securing the best price & quality for goods and services. You need to sack workers and particularly managers and directors who fail manage effectively.

94383[/snapback]

I agree with you partly………..at Civil Service level, there are mass clearouts underway….

In the organisation I worked for (Governement Quango) the “dead wood” and old “Tory” Boys have just about been cleared out………….it normally takes about two terms just to get your people in place to prevent the inertia at Civil Service level, in getting policies through…………

However, at Local Authority level there needs to be a cull of some of these time wasters and managers/directors who have the old views about a job for life…………….ironicly most of these guys I encounter through my consultancy work are old tory boys again……………a lot of these have awarded themselves hefty pay rises with new money available from the Governement for education, etc………….they need to be removed asap…………

You cannot give billions of £ to public sector organisations who have a track record of waste and inefficiency. The Labour government has failed to raise wages and benefits for the lower paid but at the same time give out billions to contract staff where a permanent employee could do the job.

94383[/snapback]

Actually you are wrong and right…………the minimum wage has helped the poorer sections of society, and the Institute of Fisical Studies has confirmed that those on an income of £40 k plus are actually worse off under Labour………………wheras those on lower incomes than this are better off…………..

You say permanent employee, but have you ever tried to sack a Council employee………….it is virtually impossible…………..until you get better accountability and the right balance between rights for workers who work hard and those who just hang on you will need to use casual staff……………

……….actually some public sector organisations and semi-public sector organisations have a brilliant track record for efficiency……………..but we tend not to talk about those……..

During the 2001 period when Indo Pak relations were at a record low and there was a possibility of conflict, the British government was quite happy to sell arms to both countries at the same time asking them to seek diplomacy to resolve differences.

Indian Politicians are crook in Nehru style suits, the Western politicians are crooks in Armani, and Boss suits.

94383[/snapback]

If these stupid Governemnts of India and Pakistan are stupid enough to do that , then I say let them blow each other sky high…………….but relations between the two seem to be easing of late………

PM Blair ordered an illegal war in Iraq if he cannot respect the rule of war why should the common man on the street have respect for authority.

94383[/snapback]

Please define Illegal? Is that Attorney General Legal? Kofi Anan Illegal? French illegal? Italian Legal? German illegal?Hungarian legal? Australian legal? Was the 1st World War legal? Was the 2nd World War legal? Was the Korean War legal? Was the Boear War legal?...................it all depends which side of the fence you sit ultimately………

I think the whole issue of legality is a white wash…………….the fact is Sadam’s number was up, one way or another …………….and history will record that taking him out was the right decision………….. ……..

……..and the reason why he (Blair) should be respected is because he ended years of Tory misery and has provided the UK with a steady economy…………by and large he has been a good Prime Minister……..the lowest unemployment in decades and is well on the way to re-building the NHS from the years of neglect by the Tories…………yesterday nights BBC Panorama programme confirmed crime falling since 1998 (and that Michael Howard being dishonest about the figures)………….new schools being built…………new deal for communities………….etc etc

[kurtas]

I think it is a case of you being a wishy washy socialist.

Kutas you’ve lost your pyjama

There is NOTHING wrong with Socialism, or wishy washy about it…………….Liberal Democrats are just a mish mash of old ex-Right Wing Labour (Social Democrats) and clueless do gooder Liberals………….. …………….but hey yound pretty niave when it comes to politics…….

"New" Labour has nothing to do with socialism.

New Labour is about using modern means to re-distribute wealth……….and not your traditional methods such as re-nationalisation, which clearly has been proven not to work………..

As for distributing wealth, yes they have done a great job at making the rich even richer.

Are you a school child……………?

The Institute for Fisical Studies, has clearly pointed out that those on lower incomes and with children are clearly better off that those with incomes of £40 K +

http://www.ifs.org.uk/wps/wp0221.pdf

SO GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT AND LESS OF THE SOAPY SPIN! :cool:

Whilst people working in the public sector are faced with drastic changes to their pensions, MPs under Labour have had their accrual rate altered so they accrue pensions at an even higher rate, judges who invariably come from the upper classes will not be hit by new capping rules on pension funds. So all in all yes a great job "New Labour" have done in making the rich even more better off.

The Public Sector needs reform (having worked there, I can tell you it is full of wasters) and sorting out and as the IFS has clearly stated the poorer sections of society are better off…………

One of the side effects of a successful economy is that you will get richer people and those that have taken risks to start businesses and actually create jobs and wealth should see a return…………..its only fair…….

Those on higher incomes will accrue higher pensions and a higher rate………….do I have to give you a lesson in economics too………..?

Look at the statistical facts quoted by another veer and you will see that in % terms Labour are not as pro Sikh as you like to pretend.

You mean those damn lies?........................40 Labour Governemnt Ministers sign motions to support Sikhs and yet they are racist?....................you need your head examined……………..maybe your pugh is tied to tight?

As for Iraq etc if you seriously believe that it was all down to intelligence failures then you are living in dream land.

You really have no clue have you?

Now let me give you a lesson how Governemnt Works eg Housing……………the Housing Minister will base projected figures on demand and supply on what Civil Servants and Local Authorities tell them from data and figures they collect………….

The same for the MOD…………they rely heavily of intelligence and what their advisors tell them………….

My own take is that war was inevitable with Iraq whether the intelligence was there or not……….

As far as arms sales go if a government is serious about human rights abuses then they would use sanctions to block sales as has been the case against the Chinese for a while. Early day motions are nothing as nothing comes about from them.

The net effect of arms sales or not would be negligible in the case of India……………

Strange how Labour forgot the Kirpan issue right until an election was called.

I think you live in a political fantasy world………..

Sikhs are not that an important a priority when compared to the NHS, Immigration, the Economy…………that’s a fact………and no party has treated the Kirpan issue as a priority…………….so again…………GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!

Reminds me of the way Blair raises the Palestine issue whenever he is going to do anything in Iraq then forgets about it after everyhting is done and dusted.

Well actually, there are talks going on now over Palestine…………….put your copy of Beano away and start reading the papers……………. :doh:

So please GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT SUNSHINE before you don the role of a "new" Labour spin doctor.

Look Child…………..you stick to spinning your CD’s and records and leave politics and other issues to us adults…… :doh:

94361[/snapback]

You are doing a great job as a "New" Labour spin doctor. You after selection for a council seat ?? You remind me of Tory Boy.

As for giving me Economic lessons, I suggest you undertake some actuarial studies to learn a bit more about pensions and accrual rates. Those on higher incomes need not accrue higher pensions RELATIVE to those on lower incomes, but if you increase the accrual rate for such people then they will accrue higher pensions. Obviously you think increasing the accrual rate for MPs to 1/40 from 1/55 is a way of redistributing wealth.

You obviously do not have a clue about pensions.

I suggest you stick to washing dishes and emptying rubbish bins rather than offering to give me Economic lessons. If you want actuarial lessons on defined benefit pension schemes then please feel free to drop me a PM.

Ha ha net effect of arm sales to India would be negligible - what an absurd statement. So it is OK to sell Hawk "trainer" jets that can be adapted for use against civilians ?

Talks over Palestine, where was your uncle Blair prior to the invasion of Iraq. No mention of talks. If you seriously think these "talks" are of any substance then you do seriously need to get a reality check. I suggest you put your copy of "The Daily Sport " and do some serious reading.

No party has treated the Kirpan as a priority, well so stop claiming this as a positive for "New" Labour. We are not all as naive as you. We can see why this issue has been raised now by Labour.

[randip singh]

You are doing a great job as a "New" Labour spin doctor.

94397[/snapback]

….and you’re doing a great job at doing nothing

You after selection for a council seat ??

94397[/snapback]

No, but I am out to shut Liberal Goody two shoes people up like you…………….while people like me were demonstrating outside the Old Bailey and Fighting fascists in the East End of London what were you doing?…………….probably weren’t even born….

You remind me of Tory Boy.

94397[/snapback]

At least Tory Boys are somewhere on the political spectrum…………you Liberals change your colours like your clothes……… :doh: .........

As for giving me Economic lessons, I suggest you undertake some actuarial studies to learn a bit more about pensions and accrual rates.  Those on higher incomes need not accrue higher pensions RELATIVE to those on lower incomes, but if you increase the accrual rate for such people then they will accrue higher pensions. Obviously you think increasing the accrual rate for MPs to 1/40 from 1/55 is a way of redistributing wealth.

94397[/snapback]

Proof please and less BS. The Liberal politicians are happy enough to take it too………….so have a dig at them too you hypocrite…

You obviously do not have a clue about pensions.

94397[/snapback]

More than you think………

I suggest you stick to washing dishes and emptying rubbish bins rather than offering to give me Economic lessons. If you want actuarial lessons on defined benefit pension schemes  then please feel free to drop me a PM.

94397[/snapback]

Washing dishes and emptying bins is good honourable hard work…………..why do you considerate it as so below you?

See this is the problem of you people brought up in your comfortable Middle Class lifestyles…………….you talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk…………..I’ve washed dishes and emptied bins in my lifetime and now I have several degrees under my belt and run successful consultancies which help poorer sections of society gain a stake in society………….

People like you sit in Starbucks sipping your coffees taking snipes………….and thats all you are good for........

I am proud to be seen emptying bins and washing dishes rather than a clueless wannabe………….

Ha ha net effect of arm sales to India would be negligible -  what an absurd statement. So it is OK to sell Hawk "trainer" jets that can be adapted for use against civilians ?

94397[/snapback]

Now let me give you a little lesson………….in 1984 when a relative of mine was murdered by Hindu mobs in Delhi………………..the mobs weren’t flying jets…………it was eventually when the Army was let in that the mobs were shot and brought under control………..

…..and are you so naïve that you think India won’t buy arms from other countries like Russia, USA, China etc etc………………its you who is absurd and needs to loosen your pugh………… :cool:

Talks over Palestine, where was your uncle Blair prior to the invasion of Iraq. No mention of talks. If you seriously think these "talks" are of any substance then you do seriously need to get a reality check. I suggest you put your copy of "The Daily Sport " and do some serious reading.

94397[/snapback]

I suggest you learn to read full stop………..

Whether you like it or not there are talks over Palestine………………..better men than you and me have tried and failed to solve the crisis……………what hasn’t solved the crisis is people like you who take needless swipes at people who at least TRY!

As for Blair being my Uncle……..you’ve definitely got your Kurtas and Pyjamas in a twist and are getting a bit incoherent…………. :doh:

No party has treated the Kirpan as a priority, well so stop claiming this as a positive for  "New" Labour. We are not all as naive as you. We can see why this issue has been raised now by Labour.

94397[/snapback]

This post was a response to a LIE stating that Labour was racist against Sikhs………….and it was to check the naivety of that…………..

…………my conscience is clear, whereas clueless people like you criticise for the sake of criticising…………..

……and for your information………….this Kirpan issue was jointly raised by the Lib-Dems (Check my earlier link)…………..so we can see who is playing politics where and who is TRULY naïve :doh:

[kurtas]

You are doing a great job as a "New" Labour spin doctor.

94397[/snapback]

….and you’re doing a great job at doing nothing

You after selection for a council seat ??

94397[/snapback]

No, but I am out to shut Liberal Goody two shoes people up like you…………….while people like me were demonstrating outside the Old Bailey and Fighting fascists in the East End of London what were you doing?…………….probably weren’t even born….

You remind me of Tory Boy.

94397[/snapback]

At least Tory Boys are somewhere on the political spectrum…………you Liberals change your colours like your clothes……… :doh: .........

As for giving me Economic lessons, I suggest you undertake some actuarial studies to learn a bit more about pensions and accrual rates.  Those on higher incomes need not accrue higher pensions RELATIVE to those on lower incomes, but if you increase the accrual rate for such people then they will accrue higher pensions. Obviously you think increasing the accrual rate for MPs to 1/40 from 1/55 is a way of redistributing wealth.

94397[/snapback]

Proof please and less BS. The Liberal politicians are happy enough to take it too………….so have a dig at them too you hypocrite…

You obviously do not have a clue about pensions.

94397[/snapback]

More than you think………

I suggest you stick to washing dishes and emptying rubbish bins rather than offering to give me Economic lessons. If you want actuarial lessons on defined benefit pension schemes  then please feel free to drop me a PM.

94397[/snapback]

Washing dishes and emptying bins is good honourable hard work…………..why do you considerate it as so below you?

See this is the problem of you people brought up in your comfortable Middle Class lifestyles…………….you talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk…………..I’ve washed dishes and emptied bins in my lifetime and now I have several degrees under my belt and run successful consultancies which help poorer sections of society gain a stake in society………….

People like you sit in Starbucks sipping your coffees taking snipes………….and thats all you are good for........

I am proud to be seen emptying bins and washing dishes rather than a clueless wannabe………….

Ha ha net effect of arm sales to India would be negligible -  what an absurd statement. So it is OK to sell Hawk "trainer" jets that can be adapted for use against civilians ?

94397[/snapback]

Now let me give you a little lesson………….in 1984 when a relative of mine was murdered by Hindu mobs in Delhi………………..the mobs weren’t flying jets…………it was eventually when the Army was let in that the mobs were shot and brought under control………..

…..and are you so naïve that you think India won’t buy arms from other countries like Russia, USA, China etc etc………………its you who is absurd and needs to loosen your pugh………… :cool:

Talks over Palestine, where was your uncle Blair prior to the invasion of Iraq. No mention of talks. If you seriously think these "talks" are of any substance then you do seriously need to get a reality check. I suggest you put your copy of "The Daily Sport " and do some serious reading.

94397[/snapback]

I suggest you learn to read full stop………..

Whether you like it or not there are talks over Palestine………………..better men than you and me have tried and failed to solve the crisis……………what hasn’t solved the crisis is people like you who take needless swipes at people who at least TRY!

As for Blair being my Uncle……..you’ve definitely got your Kurtas and Pyjamas in a twist and are getting a bit incoherent…………. :doh:

No party has treated the Kirpan as a priority, well so stop claiming this as a positive for  "New" Labour. We are not all as naive as you. We can see why this issue has been raised now by Labour.

94397[/snapback]

This post was a response to a LIE stating that Labour was racist against Sikhs………….and it was to check the naivety of that…………..

…………my conscience is clear, whereas clueless people like you criticise for the sake of criticising…………..

……and for your information………….this Kirpan issue was jointly raised by the Lib-Dems (Check my earlier link)…………..so we can see who is playing politics where and who is TRULY naïve :doh:

94398[/snapback]

Fact remains Labour whos cause you espouse were the majority party and they could have taken a stand against the increased pensions for MP's but they failed to do so. Really totally defeats your so called wealth redistribution comments when there are proposals to change the accrual rate so less pension is accrued by binmen, dinner ladies and other public sector workers. If you hink it is BS then I suggest you contact the institute of actuaries or even the actuarial division at PWC (they do a nice course on pensions which may help you understand them rather than BS about them!).

Uhhh woopee so what you stood outside the old bailey etc. You are probably right I was not born in the late 1960s when you was walking around in your army surplus jacket outside the old bailey. You want a Blue Peter badge ? Whilst you was undetaking your peaceful marches my uncle sorted out some facists good and proper and served time for it. So stop trying to play the big hero. Plenty of people stood up to the facists in those days not just you !

Woopee you have some degrees. Maybe if you suck up to Blair and his cronies they may sort out a OBE for you.

As for the 1984 riots, you once again show your total lack of knowledge. Firstly the mobs were not just HINDU as you claim, Muslims were also involved. The mobs had nothing else to destroy, rape or murder at the stage the army was bought in, so stop making false claims about the army bringing things under control. Secondly I suggst you look at Indonesia and the methods the Indonesian airforce used in East Timor to see how countries use military jets to kill civillians (once again your chacha Blair approved the sale of jets to Indonesia).

As for my kurtas etc, nice to see how such an educated person with lots of degrees has to resort to lowly insults as they have nothing intelligent to say.

[randip singh]

Fact remains Labour whos cause you espouse were the majority party and they could have taken a stand against the increased pensions for MP's but they failed to do so. Really totally defeats your so called wealth redistribution comments when there are proposals to change the accrual rate so less pension is accrued by binmen, dinner ladies and other public sector workers. If you hink it is BS then I suggest you contact the institute of actuaries or even the actuarial division at PWC (they do a nice course on pensions which may help you understand them rather than BS about them!).

94445[/snapback]

Look mate....we're not going to agree........as long as you don't vote Tory or for the Right wing .......thats fine with me......... :T:

I could go into the finer points about Pensions but I won't.......we won't agree........ :e:

Uhhh woopee so what you stood outside the old bailey etc. You are probably right I was not born in the late 1960s when you was walking around in your army surplus  jacket outside the old bailey.  You want a Blue Peter badge ? Whilst you was undetaking your peaceful marches my uncle sorted out some facists good and proper and served time for it. So stop trying to play the big hero. Plenty of people stood up to the facists in those days not just you !

94445[/snapback]

Who is your uncle........I may know him because I was involved in quite a bit of Filling in fascists myself and it got me in a lot of trouble unfortunately..............if he's from the East Ham Area and went to school around the 80's at secondary level........he'll definitely know me as one of the East Ham Boys.........I knew quite a few of the Southal and Birmingham Boys..........

Woopee you have some degrees. Maybe if you suck up to Blair and his cronies they may sort out a OBE for you. 

94445[/snapback]

Mate making fun of my academic achievements is no laughing matter............at the time in the mid 80's my father was unemployed as well as my brother..............my mother was the only bread winner.............I went to Uni without even getting one quarter of the means tested grant (what a joke) and I see rich kids on full grants and BMW's because their parents have the best accountants.........

I bet you have never experienced Balifs at your door taking your furniture away, or your gas and electric being cut off...............I pray you never have to .............not times to be laughed at

As for the 1984 riots, you once again show your total lack of knowledge. Firstly the mobs were not just HINDU as you claim, Muslims were also involved. The mobs had nothing else to destroy, rape or murder at the stage the army was bought in, so stop making false claims about the army bringing things under control. Secondly I suggst you look at Indonesia and the methods the Indonesian airforce used in East Timor to see how countries use military jets to kill civillians (once again your chacha Blair approved the sale of jets to Indonesia).

94445[/snapback]

Actually you were not there, but I have spoken to eyewitnesses of the riots and they have pointed out people involved in the rioting.........AND the majority were Hindu's.........as well as Muslim..........

The army was held up for 3 days by the Congress politicians outside Delhi and when they entered (many were Sardar Jiwans)................they shot a killed many rioters...................that was witnessed by several victims I spoke to..........

........Indonia will by arms from somewhere else, even if they don't buy them from the UK........

As for my kurtas etc, nice to see how such an educated person with lots of degrees has to resort to lowly insults as they have nothing intelligent to say.

94445[/snapback]

I thought I was adding humour to this dull conversation.....................if I have offended you then accept my apoligies.................PEACE........

[kurtas]

Fact remains Labour whos cause you espouse were the majority party and they could have taken a stand against the increased pensions for MP's but they failed to do so. Really totally defeats your so called wealth redistribution comments when there are proposals to change the accrual rate so less pension is accrued by binmen, dinner ladies and other public sector workers. If you hink it is BS then I suggest you contact the institute of actuaries or even the actuarial division at PWC (they do a nice course on pensions which may help you understand them rather than BS about them!).

94445[/snapback]

Look mate....we're not going to agree........as long as you don't vote Tory or for the Right wing .......thats fine with me......... :T:

I could go into the finer points about Pensions but I won't.......we won't agree........ :e:

Uhhh woopee so what you stood outside the old bailey etc. You are probably right I was not born in the late 1960s when you was walking around in your army surplus  jacket outside the old bailey.  You want a Blue Peter badge ? Whilst you was undetaking your peaceful marches my uncle sorted out some facists good and proper and served time for it. So stop trying to play the big hero. Plenty of people stood up to the facists in those days not just you !

94445[/snapback]

Who is your uncle........I may know him because I was involved in quite a bit of Filling in fascists myself and it got me in a lot of trouble unfortunately..............if he's from the East Ham Area and went to school around the 80's at secondary level........he'll definitely know me as one of the East Ham Boys.........I knew quite a few of the Southal and Birmingham Boys..........

Woopee you have some degrees. Maybe if you suck up to Blair and his cronies they may sort out a OBE for you. 

94445[/snapback]

Mate making fun of my academic achievements is no laughing matter............at the time in the mid 80's my father was unemployed as well as my brother..............my mother was the only bread winner.............I went to Uni without even getting one quarter of the means tested grant (what a joke) and I see rich kids on full grants and BMW's because their parents have the best accountants.........

I bet you have never experienced Balifs at your door taking your furniture away, or your gas and electric being cut off...............I pray you never have to .............not times to be laughed at

As for the 1984 riots, you once again show your total lack of knowledge. Firstly the mobs were not just HINDU as you claim, Muslims were also involved. The mobs had nothing else to destroy, rape or murder at the stage the army was bought in, so stop making false claims about the army bringing things under control. Secondly I suggst you look at Indonesia and the methods the Indonesian airforce used in East Timor to see how countries use military jets to kill civillians (once again your chacha Blair approved the sale of jets to Indonesia).

94445[/snapback]

Actually you were not there, but I have spoken to eyewitnesses of the riots and they have pointed out people involved in the rioting.........AND the majority were Hindu's.........as well as Muslim..........

The army was held up for 3 days by the Congress politicians outside Delhi and when they entered (many were Sardar Jiwans)................they shot a killed many rioters...................that was witnessed by several victims I spoke to..........

........Indonia will by arms from somewhere else, even if they don't buy them from the UK........

As for my kurtas etc, nice to see how such an educated person with lots of degrees has to resort to lowly insults as they have nothing intelligent to say.

94445[/snapback]

I thought I was adding humour to this dull conversation.....................if I have offended you then accept my apoligies.................PEACE........

94491[/snapback]

I may not have been a witness but I was at Uni with a few Sikhs who had come to the UK for study purposes from Delhi and they were more than clued up about what happened as their families were victims of the 84 riots.

I doubt you know my uncle. He sorted out a few facists in the late 1970s so before your time and he was not from the London area.

Shame Blair and his stooges who all benefitted from "free" education have now burdened the masses with tuition fees. Not exactly a great way to increase the number of people from lower income families from taking up Uni education.

I think we will have to agree to disagree as this debate is going off the boil due to you claiming "New" Labour are socialist and me thinking they are an extension of Tory rule with very similar policies.

[randip singh]

I may not have been a witness but I was at Uni with a few Sikhs who had come to the UK for study purposes from Delhi and they were more than clued up about what happened as their families were victims of the 84 riots.

94493[/snapback]

If you ever get a chance, go to Delhi and speak to some of the ordinary folk that were mostly affected………………Cab drivers, Shop Keepers etc. These are the people I spoke to and they have grave regrets that violence like this can take place between Hindu’s and Sikhs…………….it’s a very harrowing experience when you hear it first hand and makes you very angry………….

I doubt you know my uncle. He sorted out a few fascists in the late 1970s so before your time and he was not from the London area.

94493[/snapback]

Perhaps he knows my Uncles and Dad……………..many of my Uncles were quite active in smashing fascists heads in Gravesend, Birmingham and London……………

Shame Blair and his stooges who all benefited from "free" education have now burdened the masses with tuition fees. Not exactly a great way to increase the number of people from lower income families from taking up Uni education.

94493[/snapback]

Mate……the means tested grant system does not work…………..I will testify to that. According to the means testing system I did not qualify for a full grant, despite my mother being the only bread winner in the family and having to support me, my brother, my father and grandmother………….

All I saw at Uni was rich kids in BMW’s with full grants, because their parents had the best accountants………………I had to work and get a job through my Uni education so why can’t kids nowadays…………..

………they do need however to extend the bursaries that are available for the poorer kids further……………but I do not believe in means tested grants for which I have to pay for through my taxes, to support rich kids in Uni………….

I think we will have to agree to disagree as this debate is going off the boil due to you claiming "New" Labour are socialist and me thinking they are an extension of Tory rule with very similar policies.

94493[/snapback]

As explained to you from the beginning…………..if you took a snapshot of Labour Ministers and Members you would find there are views ranging from the Left of Centre (Blairites) to the Left (Gordon Brownites/ Jon Prescott etc) to the far left, me (Tony Benn, Ken Livingstone etc etc). So New Labour is a spectrum of opinion. This political consensus is what political parties are built upon. I see my home as being with Labour because it is the only credible Left of Centre Party and the only left of centre party with a credible chance of challenging the “Party of Evil” The Conservatives.

I don’t know if you remember the 80’s and the days of the “Looney Left” in the 80’s when Labour did not have a knats chance of beating the Tories, and as a result we have had 18 years of Tory misery, from which we are still suffering today…………….they basically sold all the UK’s assets and screwed (and brainwashed) the working man. “Greed is Good” was their mantra, and still is, and like sheep our Sikhs are following this Right Wing menace.

On polling day, every vote will count, and votes in marginal seats that go towards Lib-Dems away from Labour, may allow the Tories to sneak in, because of the “first past the post” system in this country. The reverse will also be true, and that is why I say, use every vote tactically. Find out which party has the best chance in your constituency of keeping the Tory Menace out and vote for them accordingly.

[kurtas]

I may not have been a witness but I was at Uni with a few Sikhs who had come to the UK for study purposes from Delhi and they were more than clued up about what happened as their families were victims of the 84 riots.

94493[/snapback]

If you ever get a chance, go to Delhi and speak to some of the ordinary folk that were mostly affected………………Cab drivers, Shop Keepers etc. These are the people I spoke to and they have grave regrets that violence like this can take place between Hindu’s and Sikhs…………….it’s a very harrowing experience when you hear it first hand and makes you very angry………….

I doubt you know my uncle. He sorted out a few fascists in the late 1970s so before your time and he was not from the London area.

94493[/snapback]

Perhaps he knows my Uncles and Dad……………..many of my Uncles were quite active in smashing fascists heads in Gravesend, Birmingham and London……………

Shame Blair and his stooges who all benefited from "free" education have now burdened the masses with tuition fees. Not exactly a great way to increase the number of people from lower income families from taking up Uni education.

94493[/snapback]

Mate……the means tested grant system does not work…………..I will testify to that. According to the means testing system I did not qualify for a full grant, despite my mother being the only bread winner in the family and having to support me, my brother, my father and grandmother………….

All I saw at Uni was rich kids in BMW’s with full grants, because their parents had the best accountants………………I had to work and get a job through my Uni education so why can’t kids nowadays…………..

………they do need however to extend the bursaries that are available for the poorer kids further……………but I do not believe in means tested grants for which I have to pay for through my taxes, to support rich kids in Uni………….

I think we will have to agree to disagree as this debate is going off the boil due to you claiming "New" Labour are socialist and me thinking they are an extension of Tory rule with very similar policies.

94493[/snapback]

As explained to you from the beginning…………..if you took a snapshot of Labour Ministers and Members you would find there are views ranging from the Left of Centre (Blairites) to the Left (Gordon Brownites/ Jon Prescott etc) to the far left, me (Tony Benn, Ken Livingstone etc etc). So New Labour is a spectrum of opinion. This political consensus is what political parties are built upon. I see my home as being with Labour because it is the only credible Left of Centre Party and the only left of centre party with a credible chance of challenging the “Party of Evil” The Conservatives.

I don’t know if you remember the 80’s and the days of the “Looney Left” in the 80’s when Labour did not have a knats chance of beating the Tories, and as a result we have had 18 years of Tory misery, from which we are still suffering today…………….they basically sold all the UK’s assets and screwed (and brainwashed) the working man. “Greed is Good” was their mantra, and still is, and like sheep our Sikhs are following this Right Wing menace.

On polling day, every vote will count, and votes in marginal seats that go towards Lib-Dems away from Labour, may allow the Tories to sneak in, because of the “first past the post” system in this country. The reverse will also be true, and that is why I say, use every vote tactically. Find out which party has the best chance in your constituency of keeping the Tory Menace out and vote for them accordingly.

94600[/snapback]

There was nothing wrong with the means tested grants. Coming from a low income family I qualified for a full grant and was able to more than survive on it. I even managed to save a bit of money form the Grant and come out of Uni without any debts.

I used to vote Labour but have not voted in the last few council elections because I think Blair has failed the working class people of this country. I will not vote Labour at national or local level until Blair leaves office. The tories did privatise a lot but Labour is following the same ethos and using the same values in promoting PPF etc.