Ravidass Gurudawara's Soon To Be Just Temples?

[apnepart2]

i find it funny how you try and club ravidasi and valmiki and now julaha into one catagory! Valmikis worship Sant Valmiki as their Supreme lord and not Bhagat Ravidas. Julahas are totally different, they follow many religions. But you will say, they are all low castes, right? and then it becomes a caste matter not a religious matter, but you will say it is a religious matter because you want to see Sikhism smashed at all costs (maybe you have a cunning brahmin gene in your DNA pool as a few generations back High caste Brahmins, Thakurs and Jatts used to rape all low caste women in their periphery). Thats a sign of mental unstabiltiy.

Valmikis are more violent and retarted than chumars. What makes you think they won't turn onto Ravidasi if you people degrade their Supreme Lord Valmiki by claiming your Guru as superior to Valmiki? Valmikis can wipe out Ravidasi any time. They are few in numbers but more brave than any chumar! you might fool them into following you for a few years but wait till they too get prosperous than chumars and realise your degardation of their lord Valmiki.

You are totally a casteist as based on your arguments. You only use caste and low caste for your personal gain nothing else. And if you worked in a factory with a strong union, you did get slapped everyday for your behaviour and wonder why the slapper is not being fired.

And don't be fooled by an article, Sikhs hold great sway in Canada. (and they are pretty diverse including Chumars ((u won't like that)), julahas, valmikis, jatts,brahmins, rajputs,khatris,sodhis,ramghariya, mazhabi etc. But you won't know upright because most don't BRAG about their background as they are HUMBLE Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh)

[Kaljug Singh]

HSD:

The so-called low castes are the future of Sikhi because the oppressed, the weak, the poor and the destitute have always found protection and respect in the House of Nanak. Of course, when they become Sikhs they will be Sikhs, not Dalit Sikhs.

Jason:

My experience, and the experience of the vast majority of Sikhs I know living in Western countries, is entirely at at odds with the experiences that you describe. In my experience, there is greater consciousness of caste in India than there is here.

Anyway, it's becoming clear from your posts that you are not willing to let go of caste and that you seek to replace Jatts with Dalits at the top of this meaningless hierarchy: in trying to (rightly) rid Indian society of caste discrimination, all you are doing is perpetuating the myth of caste. Your intentions to seek conflict with Sikhs over the issue of caste that has no connection with Sikhi except as a carry over from Hindu India is also becoming apparent.

Until you stop identifying with your caste, and until you start thinking of Bhagat Ravidas as a Bhagat (or Guru, if you prefer) and not a Dalit Bhagat (or Guru) you will never be able to understand the message of Bhagat Ravidas or the Guru Granth Sahib.

Regards,

K.

[Guest jason12]

i find it funny how you try and club ravidasi and valmiki and now julaha into one catagory! Valmikis worship Sant Valmiki as their Supreme lord and not Bhagat Ravidas. Julahas are totally different, they follow many religions. But you will say, they are all low castes, right? and then it becomes a caste matter not a religious matter, but you will say it is a religious matter because you want to see Sikhism smashed at all costs (maybe you have a cunning brahmin gene in your DNA pool as a few generations back High caste Brahmins, Thakurs and Jatts used to rape all low caste women in their periphery). Thats a sign of mental unstabiltiy.

Valmikis are more violent and retarted than chumars. What makes you think they won't turn onto Ravidasi if you people degrade their Supreme Lord Valmiki by claiming your Guru as superior to Valmiki? Valmikis can wipe out Ravidasi any time. They are few in numbers but more brave than any chumar! you might fool them into following you for a few years but wait till they too get prosperous than chumars and realise your degardation of their lord Valmiki.

You are totally a casteist as based on your arguments. You only use caste and low caste for your personal gain nothing else. And if you worked in a factory with a strong union, you did get slapped everyday for your behaviour and wonder why the slapper is not being fired.

And don't be fooled by an article, Sikhs hold great sway in Canada. (and they are pretty diverse including Chumars ((u won't like that)), julahas, valmikis, jatts,brahmins, rajputs,khatris,sodhis,ramghariya, mazhabi etc. But you won't know upright because most don't BRAG about their background as they are HUMBLE Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh)

Oh I heard that there is no caste in sikhism but you just said in Canada, there are lot of sikhs who are chumars, julahas, valmikis, brahmins etc. They are castes. So you are basically going in circles holdin on to your tail and now you have come to where you started and confirmed my observation. Thank you.

You have made obvious that castes doesn't go away when you join sikhism. The cesspool of caste come with you and sikhi makes sure that your are still identitied as valmiki sikhs (mazhabi sikhs), ravidassia sikhs, ramgharia sikhs etc. and they have their own gurudwaras. So much for a casteless sikhism. I think we better stop the discussion as you have confirmed my undersatnding. I don't want you to get into that vicious circle again.

[apnepart2]

read this sentence again

including Chumars ((u won't like that)), julahas, valmikis, jatts,brahmins, rajputs,khatris,sodhis,ramghariya, mazhabi etc. But you won't know upright because most don't BRAG about their background as they are HUMBLE Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh

but you wont understand it bcoz of ur thick skull. and your are such a fart running away from proper debate without answering any valid question or putting up a proper argument and just whining like an old fat cow .

[Guest jason12]

read this sentence again

including Chumars ((u won't like that)), julahas, valmikis, jatts,brahmins, rajputs,khatris,sodhis,ramghariya, mazhabi etc. But you won't know upright because most don't BRAG about their background as they are HUMBLE Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh

but you wont understand it bcoz of ur thick skull. and your are such a fart running away from proper debate without answering any valid question or putting up a proper argument and just whining like an old fat cow .

At least have the decency and guts to quote me rather than just quoting yourselves and lost in your own observations. Today sikhs aka. casteism (I didn't say sikhi, sikhi is a concept). If many castes don't brag about themselves, you make sure that you guys do. How did you know that there is something like mazhabi sikh, Ravidassi sikh etc? Your ancestors named them to make sure that everybody in sikhism would know that there were valmikis or chammars before. Now this you can't get through your thick skull either, covered by god knows what...?

[HSD*^]

The so-called low castes are the future of Sikhi because the oppressed, the weak, the poor and the destitute have always found protection and respect in the House of Nanak. Of course, when they become Sikhs they will be Sikhs, not Dalit Sikhs.

NO! the oppressed people of the world are part of the future of sikhi. those intellects who are spiritual but dont like hinduism, christianity, islam etc are part of the future of sikhi. what would be the point in replacing 'jatts' with ravidassia/chamars in sikhi? dont they name their gurudwaras after their own caste aswell? there are already many so-called low castes sikhs. what would be the point in having more of one bunch of people who believe in their caste than another in the panth? the answer is we have to get past caste (all of us!). mixed gurudwaras. mixed committees. one united, casteless sangat. that is the future.

[Jeevan]

Sikhism unfortunately has allowed itself to be caste based this is not the fault of the Brahmins, GOI, or RSS but Sikhs themselves

[apnepart2]

At least have the decency and guts to quote me rather than just quoting yourselves and lost in your own observations. Today sikhs aka. casteism (I didn't say sikhi, sikhi is a concept). If many castes don't brag about themselves, you make sure that you guys do. How did you know that there is something like mazhabi sikh, Ravidassi sikh etc? Your ancestors named them to make sure that everybody in sikhism would know that there were valmikis or chammars before. Now this you can't get through your thick skull either, covered by god knows what...?

i know there are mazhabi ravidasi etc. becoz many people say it. When you get into conversation with someone and come to know about them, they tend to speak about their background. most youngsters don't do but all elderly people do. so what? they are just telling who their ancestors were. but they don't whine about it to make a point. Sikhs didn't fall from sky. all sikhs belonged to certain backgrounds before becoming sikhs. unlike chumars, born a chumar and die a chumar. unless you become a sikh and leap out of the gutter. Sikhs are equal and diverse. Like Canada. There is chinese, japnese, italians, russians, sri-lankans, iraqis, british and ofcourse our own indians including 'chumars'. but they are canadians and equal, get it?

[Kaljug Singh]

NO! the oppressed people of the world are part of the future of sikhi. those intellects who are spiritual but dont like hinduism, christianity, islam etc are part of the future of sikhi. what would be the point in replacing 'jatts' with ravidassia/chamars in sikhi? dont they name their gurudwaras after their own caste aswell? there are already many so-called low castes sikhs. what would be the point in having more of one bunch of people who believe in their caste than another in the panth? the answer is we have to get past caste (all of us!). mixed gurudwaras. mixed committees. one united, casteless sangat. that is the future.

Veer ji,

I believe we are actually saying the same thing. Those Dalits who are suffering oppression are a subset of the oppressed people of the world. It's not about replacing jatts with dalits, it's about allowing dalits to escape their caste within the Sikh panth. If the huge population of dalits converted en masse to Sikhi, there would be no option but to have mixed caste gurdwaras if they requested them. If that happens, it will only be a matter of time before caste ceases to be an issue.

I agree, mixed gurdwaras are the way, but I think this will happen naturally in a generation or two, at least in the Western world, because I have yet to meet a young Sikh in the UK who cared a damn about caste. At the end of the day, they care about marrying a Gursikh because of her jeevan not because of her caste.

Regards,

K.