Chastity In Sikhism

[Masti]

Now this is a hot potato if I ever saw one !

1. Why is virginity so revered by people in Eastern races ?

2. Why does sex, that takes away a person's viginity then get's frowned upon by the very people taking away this 'virginity' ?

3. What do women feel and say about this ?

This seems to be the two faces of the same coin, on one hand a man in his pride always 'prefers' a <admin-profanity filter activated> and on the other hand he wants also wants to be the first to 'rob her' of that virginity. From a woman's point of view her honour is her virginity and the loss, her life long anguish....! Or is it...?

How does Sikhism approach this conundrum? What does the Guru Granth Sahib or even the Guru's in history teach about this ?

Let's give you all a starter:

There have been substantial improvements in the position of women in society over the last 100 years. At least in the Industrial world, women have had greatly increased access to education, greater work opportunities, more varied social roles, and greater control over their reproductive lives.

But the underlying patriarchal system remains deeply entrenched. And in many parts of the world today women have little

or no control over their <admin-profanity filter activated> and reproductive lives or health.

By patriarchy, I mean a social system modeled on the family where 'father' is in charge. This goes back a long way. Some speak of an earlier period of matriarchy, where women would be in control - I remain unconvinced that this was the case, although I'm prepared to believe that if you go back far enough, the importance and influence of women may have been greater than it subsequently became.

I find plausible the analysis presented by cultural materialists, who describe a highly relevant contrast between early hunter-gatherer societies, and later agricultural or horticultural societies.

The key issue is the development of property and as a consequence inheritance. For the agriculturalist, land became a key property, which paved the way for the development of social class systems, with the landowners, and those who are employed to work on the land. The result was the stratification of power, with men of the upper classes holding the power, and, in varying degrees, the segregation by gender. The woman needed to be under the control of the man to ensure the paternity of any children.

For the hunter-gatherer, who lived by hunting, fishing or gathering food where he or she could find it, property was not an issue, beyond perhaps your fishing vessels and hunting weapons. And by contrast, women in hunter-gatherer societies had more equal status.

I have for a long time been intrigued by a somewhat buried but still to be found contrast between Northern-European or Nordic and Mediterranean societies and their attitudes to sexuality. The Nordic pattern involved Scandinavian countries, North of Scotland, and North of Mainland Europe. The Mediterranean pattern involved areas mainly round the north of the Mediterranean, including Greece, and parts of Italy, France and Spain.

The Nordic pattern, in its earlier versions, focused on fertility as a key factor in the progress towards marriage. The young

woman first proved her fertility, then got married. With the Mediterranean pattern, the emphasis was on virginity. The virginity of the young woman had to be protected at all costs. She was the property of her father, whose aim was to transfer her in a virginal state, to her husband, chosen by the father, quite possibly receiving money or gifts in return. This carried an implied guarantee that any children that follow have been fathered by the husband.

The differences between these two systems in both the status of women and the attitudes to sexuality, are profound. And the Nordic system, if you go back far enough, can be seen as 'hunter-gatherer' in type; the Mediterranean system, predominantly 'agricultural'.

This geographic contrast may be disputed. If it existed, it undoubtedly became obscured by the effects of the industrial revolution. What is beyond dispute is that in the large majority of human societies for a very long time, society has been structured so that men are in control, and women are subservient. As a consequence of this, everything else is organized according to the male centered model.

This model is perhaps at its most starkly chilling in the accounts of Classical Greek society, where the wife was a little better than her husband's slaves, some of whom were young women sexually available to the husband. With a number of variations, this model has persisted.

The role of religion in this process is of interest. In early classical times, there were female Gods who had some status, and this was perhaps a time when the status of women was greater. As the human race moved towards monotheistic religions, God became male. And woman became the all-too-earthly <admin-profanity filter activated> temptress.

And celibacy became the solution. Elisabeth Abbott in her interesting History of Celibacy, describes the role of celibacy in early Christianity. Sex was a threat, which if it wasn't required for reproduction would have been abolished for certain. Some earl

y Christian sects attempted just that - at a time when the return of Christ was considered just around the corner, such short term planning made more sense. But Christ didn't return, and sex had to be fitted in somewhere. Celibacy, nevertheless was revered. For the man, celibacy was his demonstration of his control over the evil seductions of women, so clearly established in the belief system by the story of Eve in The Garden of Eden. For the woman, celibacy was a most effective way of avoiding the subjugation of marriage.

Although, through the history of Christianity, there have been periods of greater and lesser emphasis on celibacy, the fundamental view of sex as a threat to our virtue has remained deeply embedded. Christianity, without doubt, has been a powerful vehicle for maintaining both patriarchal and sex-negative systems, and remains so to this day.

The other main world religions have also been mainly patriarchal, although one of the rare examples of an extant matriarchal society, the Moso from the Himalayan regions of Southern China, is a Buddhist society.

In the older religions of Hinduism and Buddhism, celibacy is regarded as important, although with Buddhism, a period of life in which <admin-profanity filter activated> activity occurs is accepted as a stage towards the final state of Nirvana in which there is "extinction of all desires and passions and the attainment of a state of beatitude". Needless to say, not all Buddhists make it to Nirvana.

In early Hinduism, we find evidence of greater value of the woman, and a more sex-positive value system. Judaism and Islam have not celebrated celibacy, but they have certainly maintained patriarchal systems, and in both, in different ways, we see the need for strict control of the woman's sexuality.

When I look at the history of the human race, from whatever perspective, the dominance of the male over the female is there in gruesome form, somewhat modified and muted in recent American and European history, due in larg

e part to the ongoing battles of the feminist movement, but all too evident in other places, such as the recent Taliban regime.

Site:

http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/about/if-I-...uld-choose.html

:umm:

[Guest SikhForLife]

its a personal choice, most people feel with s.e.x comes desire and lust and attachment

[Masti]

ts a personal choice, most people feel with s.e.x comes desire and lust and attachment

Isn't 'love' part of the equation ! :umm:

[Guest KHALISTAN ZINDABAD]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[Guest SikhForLife]

Isn't 'love' part of the equation

no what do u think?

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

masti, y do u always pick the wirdest topics to discuse?

kaam in english wud translate out to <admin-profanity filter activated> DESIRE nor lust

and guru je in many places tells us to get rid of kaam, and how its not good

for reproduction, ony for that, i see nothing wrong, cause ure not doing it for fake pleasure or fun, only to have kids

simple as that

no kaam needed

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!