Chamchey Wala Baba ! - Malaysia

[S1nghmc]

Panthic Weekly News Bureau

http://www.panthic.org/news/126/ARTICLE/5107/2009-07-17.html

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (KP)—If it's not someone claiming Sikhs are Hindus, it is people like Sukhdev Sinh from Malaysia who is trying to re-invent Sikhi, repackage it, and trying to remarket it for people that don’t seem to want to follow the true path of Sikhi. This new Jatha called “SWAM” or “Sikhs With A Mission” are up to some questionable ideas and views—enough that the so called “Jathedar” needs a serious reality check from Sikh Scholars and/or the Akal Takhat itself. This so called “Jathedar” of “SWAM” goes as far as saying that the current and Eternal Guru of the Sikhs now and forever called Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji should be named his proposed name, “Sri Guru Jyot Sahib”. That being said, he also propagates that Guru Gobind Singh himself would also approve of this renaming of Shabad Guru of the Sikhs—which is not only blasphemous to say, but also a lie made up by him in order to get foolish followers to think Guru Gobind Singh would support his heretical new mix up of True Gurmat Sikhi.

He also tries to undermine Panj Pyare and the Sacred Amrit Ceremony with his recently invented “jhaal ceremony” where he mocks the ceremony of Amrit Sanchaar by not only trying to take the responsibility of acting as the Panj Pyare solely by himself but also a list of things that are not part of the Amrit Ceremony. Besides claiming to be the Panj Pyare that bless Sikhs in the True Amrit Sanchaar he tries to act as the administrator of this supposed Amrit all by himself. He also gives out this supposed Amrit or “jhaal sweet water” with a ladle-like spoon. He doesn’t follow the true protocol of True Amrit by having a steel Bata and other necessary equipment for having an actual Amrit Sanchaar, with the most important element of having 5 pure Rehatvaan Sikhs that strictly follow Guru Sahib's Sacred teachings. This Sukhdev Sinh is literally watering down Guru Sahib's prescribed Strict Code of Conduct.

“The ignorant person is totally blind he does not appreciate the value of the jewel.”

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib

The Sikh Faith is not a missionary religion that advocates trying to convert people to the Faith—we already have enough Sikhs that still need to convert to Gurmat based Sikhi already. Sikhi is definitely about Quality and not Quantity, in contrary to Sukhdev Sinh's heretical “Sikhi”. “SWAM” can't go around trying to convert people when their so called “jathedar" can not even properly follow Sikhi himself. First thing the Jatha should do is follow Sikhi properly before trying to convert anyone. Sikhs lead by example and don’t try to convert anyone to the faith as other missionary faiths do.

Not only does Sukhdev Sinh want to try to propagate his ridiculous manmat of trying to change Sri Guru Granth Sahib's name and making his own version of Amrit, but also tries to tell his chelas that the Kirpan, Kachera, and Turban are outdated and not useful, so he also has his own rules or Conduct which he thinks a modern Baptized Sikh should follow.

“Why become friends with those whom the Creator Lord Himself has misled?”

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib

Through his blasphemous and backwards parchaar, he is misleading many Sikhs based in Malaysia and everywhere he travels, touring as some “enlightened Baba”. On his website he is attempting to fundraise by telling his followers to donate dasvand to further his agenda of trying to change Sikhi. In addition, Sukhdev has been spotted at numerious occasions indulging in unacceptable behavior with members of the opposite sex. His so-called blessing is not only unacceptable, but truly blasphemous and derogatory. A short clip recorded at Gurdwara Sahib in Butterworth, Penang is being shared here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp43tn8r4Vs...player_embedded

Malaysian Sikhs following Sri Guru Gobind Singh's True Rehat want Sukhdev Sinh to stop his manmat. They are being threatened by his foolish followers with different types of harassment and blackmail. He himself posts on his blog and website of the issues brought up in any of the debunking debates held on forums recently over the internet. Nobody opposing “SWAM” is making any false claims about his agenda, but he openly tries to spread his manmat through different flyers, personal communication, and internet websites.

Gursikhs in Malaysia as well as Sikhs from many parts of the world want him to engage in an open public and videotaped discussion with Sikh Scholars to explain what he is trying to implement on Sikh youth through his anti-Gurmat Parchaar. If he ignores and is insistent on further spreading his false teachings while claiming to be a Sikh then he should be summoned before Sri Akal Takhat Sahib for trying to change Sikhi and spreading his misleading manmat and highly mischievous preaching.

“Night and day, engrossed in worldly affairs, even in his dreams, he finds no peace.”

Guru Gobind Singh Sahib

The teachings of the “Jathedar” of “SWAM” are better left to himself on his solo journey through doubt of Sikhi. Don’t follow false teachings preached by Sukhdev Sinh of Malaysia, ‘Jathedar” of “SWAM”.

The self-willed manmukhs do not obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence.

The false are plundered by falsehood.

Sri Guru Amar Das Sahib

Supporting Sukhdev Sinh is not only an insult to Guru Sahib's teachings, but you also forfeit your Guru as Guide and Boat to get across the worldly ocean of life. Strict Gurmat Sikhi has been permanently set forth for the strongest to obtain Guru's blessings. All the false will lose their wager on falsehood by giving their chance of understanding Guru's teachings by trading the mind's jewels for mere worldly glass.

”The jewel of human life is passing away uselessly, lost in exchange for mere glass.”

Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji

Check out his blog : http://perfectlightministry.blogspot.com/

[Hoshiarpuria]

The guy is clearly enjoying some sort of support, his followers are to blame too.We have so many babas who are destroying us from within, the local Sikhs should stand upto him and should confront him !!!!

[humkire]

i checked their website and etc but cannot find 1)anything about the normal full works amrit sanchar being done single handedly 2)that this guy allows himself to be called a baba 3)anything about jyot etc .

could you please substantiate these claims because from my sources of information this guy( sukhdev singh) is a person who studied aeronautical engineering at bristol,UK in the 70s ,met an AKJ gurskh there called mukhtiar singh,hence got involved with akj ,laters got further inspiration from 3HO ,damdami taksal ,saint scholar sant baba naranjan singh patiale wale, etc --thus widenining his scope of understanding Sikhi . Back in Malaysia he has been involved the last 30 odd years in the mainstream akal takt maryada based Sikh Naujawan Sabha , sikh societies at university and school level ,set up theworld's 1st Sikh band based on scottish bagpipes doing all that in the midst of hisbusy scheduleas an aircraft engineer.

he together with a load of other inspired sikhs were responsible for curbing and arresting the decline of sikhi in the orthodox muslim country of malaysia where many young sikh youths were going wayward and even converting to islam and christianity ,apart from drugs and alcohol.these are solid facts .

his wife jaswinder kaur ,is a dastaar tying bibi involved in a gurmat kirtan jatha who sacrificed a promising career as an accountant in order to do parchar apart from her involvement in an orphanage for abandoned sikh children . likewise his younger brother .

from what i know ,in the past this guy's unconventional style has trampled on the toes of traditionalists who resist attempts to do innovative parchar suited to the younger generation to attract their attention . Most of the little changes he brings are kinda window dressing or repackaging basic gurmat in ways and means to captivate monas etc towards sikhi . and like any one of us he sometimes as a thinker speaks his mind like the way any of us express our revolutionary opinions but after all every gyani,sant,parchararak i have heard in my life do tend to have their own little quirky opinions about things haha for which we dont 'hang them on the cross'.

anyway i do not like taking sides or showing favours but as elsewhere .so in malaysia once you are in the public eye you do tend to get criticised and things you do say or do tend to get exxagerated and taken out of context . in that youtube video for e.g he is seen to be making some sort of physical contact like kinda giving a touch of healing to ppl who otherwise would be headed to a hindu swami(which is a serious problem among sikhs in malaysia) ,as a way of ushering them back to faith in the power of a sikh to heal(through gurujee's kirpa) as well as back to SGGS . In my little life too when people come to me i show Sikhi love ,maybe place my hand on an affected area

of pain and make ardas in my heart to Gurujee to bless them ,and give them a simran cd /sukhmani sahib translation to get close to Gurujee . I dont think that means im transgressing but rather helping people of any race to have faith in Gurujee.

if indeed this guy has transgressed than much more substantive prove is required rather than some article exposing a person's misdeeds without substantiation. im no uncle or nephew of this guy , and i do not owe him any favours to need to defend him dishonestly , but i do happen to know first hand the personal record of this person ,plus through my many many many chardikela sikh malaysian contacts from various different jethabandhis at a senior level ,hence i ask for restraint and solid concrete prove before we accuse this person.

Moving on, from my own personal experience, we in Sikhi do not have no goverments backing us financially to do parchaar of sikhi which indeed can cost . we have to draw from a narrow pool of resources whether it is a radio station ,tv station ,blog ,or website or sikh camps or kirtan gurmat tours . thus we cannot afford to be divided as our own leadership at the very top ,including those in charge of gurudwaras and takhts etc have proved totally ineffective and incapable to bring the panth into chardikela . A lot ofsikh youths wherever you go -canada,malaysia.UK,USA ,new zealand,australia , hong kong ,africa are involved in manmat stuff ,cannot read gurmukhi ,dont understand punjabi ,are weternised and use their surnames not singh or kaur . the traditional parcharr method of gyani maan singh chaur ,maskin, which worked well with punjabi speaking masses of the 60s and 70s ,doesnt work with younger youths . you need to be able to do parchaar in local languages ,you need to use modern forms of media,you need to get into changing socio-cultural mindsets , you need to put the message in new forms of expression ,you need to be creative ,innovative and when you do that you stand to be accused of deviating but we either stick to a traditionist modus operanti or be more intelligent and repackage the message in tune with changing times , in ways that are radical,and revolutionary .

even in my own life i have to constantlly readapt and reinvent to make the business i own sucessful . my shop stays where it is but i move things around . i repakage products ,i create websites ,i change my staff and i focus on tapping on a greater number of customers . then in my personal life ,i keep abreast of the news , of the changing slang ,vocab and twang in language so i always appear relevant . my youngest employee is 18 . i always listen to his ideas ,his way of speaking ,because it helps me interact effectively with a bunch of 18yr olds that may suddenly come into my shop . gurmatwill not change because gurmat and sikhi are unchanging but how we present it needs to change if we want to be instruments for the parchaar of Sikhi amongst all races ,unless of course we wanna keep sikhi as an elitist thingy , the hidden secret of a few dedicated favourites of God while everyone is domed for hell . but im reminded of the gurbani verse''raj raj bhojan khao mere bhai ,khavoh kherchoh tot na avei'' which makes me think and be committed otherwise

[GillAUS]

But why is he 'blessing' people (and that too in a way which is akin to molestation!) and why is he distributing some sort of 'holy' water?

Yes maybe he has done some seva etc., but that doesn't excuse him from having to explain the above-mentioned activities which look like pure unadulterated manmat.

His is a former airline pilot with Malaysia Airlines (MAS) - yet the video shows him portraying himself to be a 'holyman' of sorts.

Interestingly, his organisation promotes the following line of thought:

So the mission of Sikhs With A Mission is to re-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market the product created and perfected by our ten Holy Gurus, to the world. Source: http://sikhswithamis...-with-a-mission

They claim that Sikhi is a perfect creation from our Gurus (which of course no one doubts), but yet they feel the need to 're-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market' Sikhi. To me this shows that they in fact, do not believe that Sikhi is perfect!

I guess with all the pakhandi babey floating around, it was inevitable that one would pop up in Malaysia.

Hopefully the sangat there starts to realise that what he is peddling by way of his philosophy is dangerous and total bakwaas.

[humkire]

But why is he 'blessing' people (and that too in a way which is akin to molestation!) and why is he distributing some sort of 'holy' water?

Yes maybe he has done some seva etc., but that doesn't excuse him from having to explain the above-mentioned activities which look like pure unadulterated manmat.

His is a former airline pilot with Malaysia Airlines (MAS) - yet the video shows him portraying himself to be a 'holyman' of sorts.

Interestingly, his organisation promotes the following line of thought:

So the mission of Sikhs With A Mission is to re-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market the product created and perfected by our ten Holy Gurus, to the world. Source: http://sikhswithamis...-with-a-mission

They claim that Sikhi is a perfect creation from our Gurus (which of course no one doubts), but yet they feel the need to 're-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market' Sikhi. To me this shows that they in fact, do not believe that Sikhi is perfect!

I guess with all the pakhandi babey floating around, it was inevitable that one would pop up in Malaysia.

Hopefully the sangat there starts to realise that what he is peddling by way of his philosophy is dangerous and total bakwaas.

its more of a catchy gimmick than some real change in maryada etc,awkward as it seems even to me haha. he is not dressed up as a 'holy man ' but in full bana of which he is fond .i think he even used to wear khalsa bana to work . and he is not known as a baba ,but simply as mr or sardar sukhdev singh . i think you should have read what i wrote more carefully . he is not connected to no dera but ardent proponent of akal takht maryada which is the mainstream popular maryada followed in malaysia as there is very little of akj/damdami taksal/3ho/nanakseria influence in malaysia . i know that he sometimes can say and do things which are awkward but he is part of the youth khalsa network there which always puts him straight. if u were to know him as i did in the past he is just a simple straightforward well loved amritdhari sikh putting in his 2 pence for sikhi parchar. He is an english educated gentleman with no interest to start any new maryada . you would realise that if u flew to malaysia on the next flight . i knew him in the past and all i remember are sweet memories of him hosting and letting our panth's greatest preachers and ragi jathas to stay in his house during their tours of kuala lumpur ,malaysia . He is also a regular speaker and kirtanea at Sikh Nujawan Sabha annual youth samelans/ camps. He works closely with some of the main sikh youth leaders there such as surat singh ,hari singh ,malkit singh ,gyani mohinder singh, avtar singh etc .

the source of the article against him as i have said before is a couple of persons who wish for all sikhi parchar to be done in pure punjabi not understood by most of the youths due to bad upbringing and get uncomfortable with sukhdev singh's gimmicky styles . this is a local sikh malaysian issue to do with parchar style rather than pakhandey babas . read more about the history of sikhs in malaysia ,the parchar of sikhi in malaysia , and you will catch what i mean.you can also visit the sikh naujawan sabha malaysia website which is a good source of malaysian sikhi related information . if you understod the politics of malaysia and how the muslim goverment there as well as pentecostal christian missionaries there target sikh youths there apart from drug and alcoholism and a big patit puna problem ,as well as hindu swamis popular with many sikh families there you would be appreciative of all the efforts young professional sikhs there take to pool their resources and do sikhi parchar.

[GillAUS]

But why is he 'blessing' people (and that too in a way which is akin to molestation!) and why is he distributing some sort of 'holy' water?

Yes maybe he has done some seva etc., but that doesn't excuse him from having to explain the above-mentioned activities which look like pure unadulterated manmat.

His is a former airline pilot with Malaysia Airlines (MAS) - yet the video shows him portraying himself to be a 'holyman' of sorts.

Interestingly, his organisation promotes the following line of thought:

So the mission of Sikhs With A Mission is to re-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market the product created and perfected by our ten Holy Gurus, to the world. Source: http://sikhswithamis...-with-a-mission

They claim that Sikhi is a perfect creation from our Gurus (which of course no one doubts), but yet they feel the need to 're-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market' Sikhi. To me this shows that they in fact, do not believe that Sikhi is perfect!

I guess with all the pakhandi babey floating around, it was inevitable that one would pop up in Malaysia.

Hopefully the sangat there starts to realise that what he is peddling by way of his philosophy is dangerous and total bakwaas.

its more of a catchy gimmick than some real change in maryada etc,awkward as it seems even to me haha. he is not dressed up as a 'holy man ' but in full bana of which he is fond .i think he even used to wear khalsa bana to work . and he is not known as a baba ,but simply as mr or sardar sukhdev singh . i think you should have read what i wrote more carefully . he is not connected to no dera but ardent proponent of akal takht maryada which is the mainstream popular maryada followed in malaysia as there is very little of akj/damdami taksal/3ho/nanakseria influence in malaysia . i know that he sometimes can say and do things which are awkward but he is part of the youth khalsa network there which always puts him straight. if u were to know him as i did in the past he is just a simple straightforward well loved amritdhari sikh putting in his 2 pence for sikhi parchar. He is an english educated gentleman with no interest to start any new maryada . you would realise that if u flew to malaysia on the next flight . i knew him in the past and all i remember are sweet memories of him hosting and letting our panth's greatest preachers and ragi jathas to stay in his house during their tours of kuala lumpur ,malaysia . He is also a regular speaker and kirtanea at Sikh Nujawan Sabha annual youth samelans/ camps. He works closely with some of the main sikh youth leaders there such as surat singh ,hari singh ,malkit singh ,gyani mohinder singh, avtar singh etc .

the source of the article against him as i have said before is a couple of persons who wish for all sikhi parchar to be done in pure punjabi not understood by most of the youths due to bad upbringing and get uncomfortable with sukhdev singh's gimmicky styles . this is a local sikh malaysian issue to do with parchar style rather than pakhandey babas . read more about the history of sikhs in malaysia ,the parchar of sikhi in malaysia , and you will catch what i mean.you can also visit the sikh naujawan sabha malaysia website which is a good source of malaysian sikhi related information . if you understod the politics of malaysia and how the muslim goverment there as well as pentecostal christian missionaries there target sikh youths there apart from drug and alcoholism and a big patit puna problem ,as well as hindu swamis popular with many sikh families there you would be appreciative of all the efforts young professional sikhs there take to pool their resources and do sikhi parchar.

Bhai sahib, you have not addressed the key points of:

a) why is he doing things in the video that looks like the sathya sai baba would do

b) what is he distributing in the chamcha

I can understand that perhaps parchaar need be modified to identify with the local sangat, but this does not mean gurmat and rehit should be foresaken.

Please provide your justification of the video and explain the chamcha 'ceremony' as shown in the picture.

[humkire]

But why is he 'blessing' people (and that too in a way which is akin to molestation!) and why is he distributing some sort of 'holy' water?

Yes maybe he has done some seva etc., but that doesn't excuse him from having to explain the above-mentioned activities which look like pure unadulterated manmat.

His is a former airline pilot with Malaysia Airlines (MAS) - yet the video shows him portraying himself to be a 'holyman' of sorts.

Interestingly, his organisation promotes the following line of thought:

So the mission of Sikhs With A Mission is to re-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market the product created and perfected by our ten Holy Gurus, to the world. Source: http://sikhswithamis...-with-a-mission

They claim that Sikhi is a perfect creation from our Gurus (which of course no one doubts), but yet they feel the need to 're-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market' Sikhi. To me this shows that they in fact, do not believe that Sikhi is perfect!

I guess with all the pakhandi babey floating around, it was inevitable that one would pop up in Malaysia.

Hopefully the sangat there starts to realise that what he is peddling by way of his philosophy is dangerous and total bakwaas.

its more of a catchy gimmick than some real change in maryada etc,awkward as it seems even to me haha. he is not dressed up as a 'holy man ' but in full bana of which he is fond .i think he even used to wear khalsa bana to work . and he is not known as a baba ,but simply as mr or sardar sukhdev singh . i think you should have read what i wrote more carefully . he is not connected to no dera but ardent proponent of akal takht maryada which is the mainstream popular maryada followed in malaysia as there is very little of akj/damdami taksal/3ho/nanakseria influence in malaysia . i know that he sometimes can say and do things which are awkward but he is part of the youth khalsa network there which always puts him straight. if u were to know him as i did in the past he is just a simple straightforward well loved amritdhari sikh putting in his 2 pence for sikhi parchar. He is an english educated gentleman with no interest to start any new maryada . you would realise that if u flew to malaysia on the next flight . i knew him in the past and all i remember are sweet memories of him hosting and letting our panth's greatest preachers and ragi jathas to stay in his house during their tours of kuala lumpur ,malaysia . He is also a regular speaker and kirtanea at Sikh Nujawan Sabha annual youth samelans/ camps. He works closely with some of the main sikh youth leaders there such as surat singh ,hari singh ,malkit singh ,gyani mohinder singh, avtar singh etc .

the source of the article against him as i have said before is a couple of persons who wish for all sikhi parchar to be done in pure punjabi not understood by most of the youths due to bad upbringing and get uncomfortable with sukhdev singh's gimmicky styles . this is a local sikh malaysian issue to do with parchar style rather than pakhandey babas . read more about the history of sikhs in malaysia ,the parchar of sikhi in malaysia , and you will catch what i mean.you can also visit the sikh naujawan sabha malaysia website which is a good source of malaysian sikhi related information . if you understod the politics of malaysia and how the muslim goverment there as well as pentecostal christian missionaries there target sikh youths there apart from drug and alcoholism and a big patit puna problem ,as well as hindu swamis popular with many sikh families there you would be appreciative of all the efforts young professional sikhs there take to pool their resources and do sikhi parchar.

Bhai sahib, you have not addressed the key points of:

a) why is he doing things in the video that looks like the sathya sai baba would do

b) what is he distributing in the chamcha

I can understand that perhaps parchaar need be modified to identify with the local sangat, but this does not mean gurmat and rehit should be foresaken.

Please provide your justification of the video and explain the chamcha 'ceremony' as shown in the picture.

why ask me veerji or be quick to make conclusions and assumptions yourself.im not a forensic expert in analysing tiny details from some blurry shaky video neither was i there and neither the the fuller context of that video or picture . you have visited his website so why not email or message him and let the rest of us know his justification for this gimmicks. while you and me are still debating about him ,he has probably received a good sorting out from either his wife( bibi jaswinder kaur) or the Sikh Naujawan Sabha or senior members of his own kirtan jetha hahaaa .

as i have told you sukhdev singh among the local malaysian sikh sangat is well known to land himself into silly trouble over little gimmicks for which he gets told off sternly either by his more head-wise educated wife or other sikh youth leaders and retracts . if you really knew much about the inside story of parchar in malaysia ,what im saying is what you would get to know haha .if you knew sukhdev singh as i did in the past he is definately no head strong baba type but more of a normal gursikh with a soft pussycat personality when confronted hahaha . Another sikh preacher over there who constantly lands himself in trouble is a guy called Khalsajee, a great preacher who has been responsible for a whole load of monas becoming amritdharees etc but on the other hand can never stop from inventing little maryada rules of his own which again gets him drawing swords with everyone else unnecessarily .

At the end of the day ,the sikh population in Malaysia during the 2000 census was estimated to be ruffly 125,000. most of this is concentrated in the capital of malaysia ,i.e K.L , and spread out in other towns on the west coast with a little sprinkling on the east coast ,as well a further tinier sprinkling on the northern part of the island of borneo which constitutes East Malaysia . Hence everyone some how 'knows' and is connected to someone especially since jaat paat barriers and majha/malwa barriers started falling apart from the late 70s and 80s onwards. By this im implying its not difficult to sort out any local guy like sukhdev singh if he gets out of hand .

Sikhs have been in Malaysia since around the last 100 years ,hence the bulk of sikhs there are not from a relatively newer migration unlike the UK and USA or Canada and Europe . And also because its nearer to India ,hence it has been a favoured hotspot and common stop over on the tour trail map of sikh parcharaks and ragi jethas . aAlso because of very relaxed visa rules in the past most of these parcharaks would stay in malaysia for months on end preaching and preaching and preaching . i remember listening to gyani maan singh chaur (whom i assume you know who he was) for months on end as a kid ,and i remember listenimng to dharam singh zakhmi's keertan jetha continously for 3 months every evening for 2.5 hours in 1977 and professor manjit singh for God knows how many months before he later became Akal Takht jathedar . This is not a brag . The point im trying to make is that the Malaysian Sikh sangat is not relatively unripe and raw ,easy to be prowled upon by babas local or international . the sikhs there are highly organised ,are relatively well educated and hence very less suscepsible to pakandey baba attacks . When the supposed nanakseria baba amar singh (whose is in hayes ,UK now) did his bad stuff in malaysia ,the sikhs there did not wait for the Akal Takt to move . Rather they got together under the leadership of the late Surjeet Singh Besia and Gyani Isher singh jee and managed to get the immigration department to ban him from visiting malaysia and singapore as well as procured a written apology from him .

btw he was not a former pilot for your records but an aeronautical engineer as i mentioned in my 1st post on this topic .

[GillAUS]

But why is he 'blessing' people (and that too in a way which is akin to molestation!) and why is he distributing some sort of 'holy' water?

Yes maybe he has done some seva etc., but that doesn't excuse him from having to explain the above-mentioned activities which look like pure unadulterated manmat.

His is a former airline pilot with Malaysia Airlines (MAS) - yet the video shows him portraying himself to be a 'holyman' of sorts.

Interestingly, his organisation promotes the following line of thought:

So the mission of Sikhs With A Mission is to re-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market the product created and perfected by our ten Holy Gurus, to the world. Source: http://sikhswithamis...-with-a-mission

They claim that Sikhi is a perfect creation from our Gurus (which of course no one doubts), but yet they feel the need to 're-trace, re-package, re-brand and re-market' Sikhi. To me this shows that they in fact, do not believe that Sikhi is perfect!

I guess with all the pakhandi babey floating around, it was inevitable that one would pop up in Malaysia.

Hopefully the sangat there starts to realise that what he is peddling by way of his philosophy is dangerous and total bakwaas.

its more of a catchy gimmick than some real change in maryada etc,awkward as it seems even to me haha. he is not dressed up as a 'holy man ' but in full bana of which he is fond .i think he even used to wear khalsa bana to work . and he is not known as a baba ,but simply as mr or sardar sukhdev singh . i think you should have read what i wrote more carefully . he is not connected to no dera but ardent proponent of akal takht maryada which is the mainstream popular maryada followed in malaysia as there is very little of akj/damdami taksal/3ho/nanakseria influence in malaysia . i know that he sometimes can say and do things which are awkward but he is part of the youth khalsa network there which always puts him straight. if u were to know him as i did in the past he is just a simple straightforward well loved amritdhari sikh putting in his 2 pence for sikhi parchar. He is an english educated gentleman with no interest to start any new maryada . you would realise that if u flew to malaysia on the next flight . i knew him in the past and all i remember are sweet memories of him hosting and letting our panth's greatest preachers and ragi jathas to stay in his house during their tours of kuala lumpur ,malaysia . He is also a regular speaker and kirtanea at Sikh Nujawan Sabha annual youth samelans/ camps. He works closely with some of the main sikh youth leaders there such as surat singh ,hari singh ,malkit singh ,gyani mohinder singh, avtar singh etc .

the source of the article against him as i have said before is a couple of persons who wish for all sikhi parchar to be done in pure punjabi not understood by most of the youths due to bad upbringing and get uncomfortable with sukhdev singh's gimmicky styles . this is a local sikh malaysian issue to do with parchar style rather than pakhandey babas . read more about the history of sikhs in malaysia ,the parchar of sikhi in malaysia , and you will catch what i mean.you can also visit the sikh naujawan sabha malaysia website which is a good source of malaysian sikhi related information . if you understod the politics of malaysia and how the muslim goverment there as well as pentecostal christian missionaries there target sikh youths there apart from drug and alcoholism and a big patit puna problem ,as well as hindu swamis popular with many sikh families there you would be appreciative of all the efforts young professional sikhs there take to pool their resources and do sikhi parchar.

Bhai sahib, you have not addressed the key points of:

a) why is he doing things in the video that looks like the sathya sai baba would do

b) what is he distributing in the chamcha

I can understand that perhaps parchaar need be modified to identify with the local sangat, but this does not mean gurmat and rehit should be foresaken.

Please provide your justification of the video and explain the chamcha 'ceremony' as shown in the picture.

why ask me veerji or be quick to make conclusions and assumptions yourself.im not a forensic expert in analysing tiny details from some blurry shaky video neither was i there and neither the the fuller context of that video or picture . you have visited his website so why not email or message him and let the rest of us know his justification for this gimmicks. while you and me are still debating about him ,he has probably received a good sorting out from either his wife( bibi jaswinder kaur) or the Sikh Naujawan Sabha or senior members of his own kirtan jetha hahaaa .

as i have told you sukhdev singh among the local malaysian sikh sangat is well known to land himself into silly trouble over little gimmicks for which he gets told off sternly either by his more head-wise educated wife or other sikh youth leaders and retracts . if you really knew much about the inside story of parchar in malaysia ,what im saying is what you would get to know haha .if you knew sukhdev singh as i did in the past he is definately no head strong baba type but more of a normal gursikh with a soft pussycat personality when confronted hahaha . Another sikh preacher over there who constantly lands himself in trouble is a guy called Khalsajee, a great preacher who has been responsible for a whole load of monas becoming amritdharees etc but on the other hand can never stop from inventing little maryada rules of his own which again gets him drawing swords with everyone else unnecessarily .

At the end of the day ,the sikh population in Malaysia during the 2000 census was estimated to be ruffly 125,000. most of this is concentrated in the capital of malaysia ,i.e K.L , and spread out in other towns on the west coast with a little sprinkling on the east coast ,as well a further tinier sprinkling on the northern part of the island of borneo which constitutes East Malaysia . Hence everyone some how 'knows' and is connected to someone especially since jaat paat barriers and majha/malwa barriers started falling apart from the late 70s and 80s onwards. By this im implying its not difficult to sort out any local guy like sukhdev singh if he gets out of hand .

Sikhs have been in Malaysia since around the last 100 years ,hence the bulk of sikhs there are not from a relatively newer migration unlike the UK and USA or Canada and Europe . And also because its nearer to India ,hence it has been a favoured hotspot and common stop over on the tour trail map of sikh parcharaks and ragi jethas . aAlso because of very relaxed visa rules in the past most of these parcharaks would stay in malaysia for months on end preaching and preaching and preaching . i remember listening to gyani maan singh chaur (whom i assume you know who he was) for months on end as a kid ,and i remember listenimng to dharam singh zakhmi's keertan jetha continously for 3 months every evening for 2.5 hours in 1977 and professor manjit singh for God knows how many months before he later became Akal Takht jathedar . This is not a brag . The point im trying to make is that the Malaysian Sikh sangat is not relatively unripe and raw ,easy to be prowled upon by babas local or international . the sikhs there are highly organised ,are relatively well educated and hence very less suscepsible to pakandey baba attacks . When the supposed nanakseria baba amar singh (whose is in hayes ,UK now) did his bad stuff in malaysia ,the sikhs there did not wait for the Akal Takt to move . Rather they got together under the leadership of the late Surjeet Singh Besia and Gyani Isher singh jee and managed to get the immigration department to ban him from visiting malaysia and singapore as well as procured a written apology from him .

btw he was not a former pilot for your records but an aeronautical engineer as i mentioned in my 1st post on this topic .

So Sikhs should stoop to the level of other faiths and use cheap gimmicks for parchaar?

Yes I understand that the Malaysian Sikh community has been out of Punjab for some generations, however, this would mean that parchaar may be needed in local languages and/or in english, and via other methods capable of reaching the local Sikhs. But does this involve such cheap trickery as has been shown in the video? Surely such things are not according to Gurmat or Maryada.

Moreover, I do not consider the video and photo 'grainy' for one can easily make out that it is Sukdev Singh.

I am aware of Sukdev's involvment with the SNSM, and I am also aware of the allegations of 'hera-pheri' going on within this organisation.

He may or may not be an aeronautical engineer, but he is also a pilot, for I have met him in person on a flight on which he was the captain.

[humkire]

Since you have met him, know his website, and you also know of SNSM, than, my suggestion is you email all these people to get proper detailed clarifications and how some of these issues are being resolved. That will help you make a better judgement, beyond what i have mentioned. If you do that, please also try get a written statement from him as to which piloting school he went and where. Thats the best way forward. As to you saying that he 'may or may be not an aeronautical engineer'' ,had you read my first post on this topic i even mentioned the university he went to in bristol ,UK ,where he did a degree in aeronautical engineering, who he met there etc as i have been a very close acquaintance of him. Studying piloting is a different ball game. You can get confirmation from MAS(malaysian airline systems) that he was an aeronautical engineer with them from the late 70s till at least the late 90s or perhaps even now .I'm not sure if he has retired. If you are from Malaysia ,it should be common knowledge to you that he was an on-board aeronautical engineer.

As for the SNSM ,again if you are Malaysian, you would know that this the main non-jethabandhi based Sikh Youth Organisation covering all of Malaysia, pioneeered in the 50s or 60s by amongst others ,the leading most senior gyani of malaysia and singapore at that time i.e Gyani Isher Singh ,the eminent senior foreign ministry official,Surjit Singh Besia etc. Its easy to sit at your computer ,pick up a couple of things, and just diss off people as fast as you can ,but the commonly known truth about SNSM is that it has done a whole amount of parchar ,welfare and social activities to help sikh youths in a harsh muslim environment. This has been recognised amongst even the senior leadership of Akal Takht. Of course only Gurujee is perfect,hence you can expect a few irregularities, but on the whole, this is a very respected and safe ,accountable ,transparent and respectable Sikh institution even recognised by the goverment of Malaysia. Its activities encompass sikh societies at schools ,colleges and universities, sikh youth camps , sikh youth satsangs throughout the major gurudwaras in Malaysia, lobbying the goverment for Sikh interests, and through the efforts of a Mr Hari Singh, they even were instrumental in setting up another organisation i.e the inter gurudwara consultative council that helps coordinate amongst the various gurudwaras in Malaysia . They also print out kirtan ,nitnem and other gutkas with english translation . They have also ventured out to help Sikhs in other parts of South-east asiasuch asborneo thailand and indonesia .

I have mentioned a lot of facts in all my posts in this thread ,and names . Go through them carefully as they help you gain a good understanding of Sikhi in malaysia and ask me for more information if required.

As for Sukhdev Singh, do write to him for proper clarifications. When you met him you must have found him to be a very pleasant,humble,educated and loving gursikh ,hence approach him ,remind him of your meeting, and tell him off if need be and you will find him regretful.At the end of the day there is one insider fact you need to know about him that is well known among malaysian sikh youth leaders ,i.e Sukhdev has a tendency to indulge in gimmicks that he soon gets tired off ,but overall he is a safe hand, hence he is best ignored as he not even some popular charismatic bloke . There are far more bigger players and rising stars, on the Malaysian Sikh scene and the problems Malaysian sikhs and gurudwaras face in malaysia are far more bigger. The name to watch, if u you wanna be inspired is a chardikela humble gursikh called Bhagat Singh( from airpanas ,setapak,KL,malaysia). A name not gone unnoticed even by the jathedar of Akal Takht.