To All

[Bijla Singh]

Okay voiceless, you wanna be realistic. First Guru Ji being a Hindu.

taken from www.searchsikhism.com

First of all, we all should know that Guru Nanak Dev Ji never accepted any principal of Hinduism nor Islam. Just because He was born in a Hindu family doesn't mean that he was a Hindu. Your character makes you a person. If you are born in a Hindu family but you have never done anything like a Hindu and you oppose Hinduism then you wouldn't be a Hindu. Hindu is he who follows what Hinduism says such as worshipping stones etc. Guru Nanak Ji never ever worshipped stones. This is just one example. Guru Ji always worshipped one almighty God. Guru Ji rejected the idea of wearing Janju (piece of thread) at young age and later didn't take any rounds around the fire when He married Mata Sulakhni Ji. Guru Ji started a new religion, Sikhism, and preached the message of One God. Bhai Gurdas Ji says:

“Maareya Sikka Jagat Vich, Nanak Nirmal Panth Chalaeya”

Which means Guru Nanak Ji started a new religion. Guru Ji taught Sikhs to believe in one God. Whatever Guru Nanak Ji taught He practiced it first. He did everything first then taught Sikhs to do it in essence practicing what he preached. Guru Ji said, "There is no Hindu, no Muslim" meaning that no one is born Hindu nor a Muslim because what one does makes him Hindu or Muslim. Worshipping stones and believing in more than one God makes you a Hindu; fasting and following what Quran says makes you a Muslim. How can you be a Muslim if you don’t fast, believe in Quran and pray five times a day. How can you be a Hindu if you don’t wear Janju, worship 330 million Gods and believe in castes?

"I am not a Hin

du, nor am I a Muslim." (Page 1136)

End of this discussion.

Your next point. Khalistan will be achieved whichever way possible. Peaceful means or war but we are ready for both. We are not beggers and we do not ask indian government to give us land. We will take it because it rightfully belongs to us. Guru Gobind Singh Ji said "Koi Kisi Ko Raj Na Dehhai, Jo Lehai Nijj bal Se Lehai". Guru Ji clearly says that Raj is always won through power. When Pakistan attacked India had the hindus sat on the border line in their dhotis and started spinning their charkha they would've all gotten killed or slaves of muslims. You are not even a Sikh because a true Sikh will never call Guru Ji a hindu. Prove to me that Gurbani speaks against Khalistan and Khalistan will only bring downfall to Sikhism. Do you have any quotes? We (Sikhs) believe in Bani and follow Gurbani. We will live the way Gurbani teaches us.

In last I wanna say that the way you wrote your post about daring and challenging people.....I smell hankaar. No one was able to provide answers to your arguments because those are not arguments. That's called idiocy. You are making stupid points. Khalistan is needed to save Sikhism and is for Sikhs. So we must look at it from Sikhism point of view. Name a country that won independence with no one getting killed. it is really stupid when someone speaks against killing of couple of hindus and yet not a single word about killing of thousands of Sikhs. You want to argue then speak with Sikhi in your mind.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[smartsingh24]

Excuse me, but I'm going to go buck wild for a couple of minutes

On this website there is a general hatred for those who opress Sikhs.

GEE, I WONDER WHY WE WOULD HAVE HATRED FOR PEOPLE WHO OPRESS SIKHS? MIGHT IT BE THE FACT THAT WE ARE SIKHS?

I've met many in my own community that share these feelings.

OH SO U'VE MET OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT KHALISTAN AND ARE DETERMINED TO UNDERMINE THE HOPES AND DREAMS OF WHAT WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME A REALITY?

AND WHERE DO YOU COME OFF SAYING THE GURU NANAK DEV JI WAS A HINDU? YOU ARE NOTHING, NOTHING COMPARED TO HIM, AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO DISPARAGE HIM!

[SHEEP of HINDUSTAN]

Face the truth: KHALISTAN will be made one day and it will be the most peaceful place in the world.

Nothing but Guru Maharaj ji's grace!!!

You can try and fight khalistan (your a non sikh probably) but the Chardi Kala singhs are laughing at you :wub:

KHALISTAN ZINDABADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!! )

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[The Voice of the Voiceless]

Excuse me, but I'm going to go buck wild for a couple of minutes

On this website there is a general hatred for those who opress Sikhs.

GEE, I WONDER WHY WE WOULD HAVE HATRED FOR PEOPLE WHO OPRESS SIKHS? MIGHT IT BE THE FACT THAT WE ARE SIKHS?

I've met many in my own community that share these feelings.

OH SO U'VE MET OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT KHALISTAN AND ARE DETERMINED TO UNDERMINE THE HOPES AND DREAMS OF WHAT WILL EVENTUALLY BECOME A REALITY?

AND WHERE DO YOU COME OFF SAYING THE GURU NANAK DEV JI WAS A HINDU? YOU ARE NOTHING, NOTHING COMPARED TO HIM, AND HAVE NO RIGHT TO DISPARAGE HIM!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not born a Sikh. He found Sikhism and was brought up as a Hindu.

I mentioned I've met many Sik

hs that share feelings of hate towards the religions that cause people to make horrible judgements.

Since when did Sikhism teach you to hate?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[The Voice of the Voiceless]

"Name a country that won independence with no one getting killed."

Canada

Sweden

Austrailia

The Country of Georgia

[The Voice of the Voiceless]

"When Pakistan attacked India had the hindus sat on the border line in their dhotis and started spinning their charkha they would've all gotten killed or slaves of muslims. You are not even a Sikh because a true Sikh will never call Guru Ji a hindu."

I am not aiming to insult Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji by saying that he was Hindu and that he defied those principles to find Sikhism.

You are offended because you attach Hinduism to hatred of Sikhs. Sikhism accepts and respects all faiths. You don't. You easily categorize people under their religions and attack the religion.

Yes Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not follow the rituals of Hinduism because he saw them unworthy of a connection to Waheguru. Yet the Guru Granth Sahib Ji incorporate prayers and songs from Muslims and Hindus that do revere Waheguru.

You attack my beliefs. Is this what Sikhism taught you?

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Bijla Singh]

Guru Nanak Dev Ji being brought up as a hindu is highly unlikely. Guru Nanak Dev Ji never did a single thing that hindus do. Guru Ji was sent to a pundit to study but Guru Ji wrote Ik Oankar and Gurmukhi Lipi. Then He was sent to Qazi to study Farsi but Guru Ji wrote Shabad "Yuk Araz Guftam Paisto". If Guru Ji was brought up as a hindu then He must've followed hinduism in some way but history does not show it and neither does Gurbani. Guru Ji started writing Gurbani from childhood. He rejected everything that Hindus believe in.

Regarding Hindu and Muslim saints. First of all, they are not hindus and muslims. This has been discussed earlier. their Bani opposes hindu and muslim beliefs. It is very funny that Bhagats like Kabeer, Naamdev and Ravidaas were not even considered humans in hindu society and were not let in the mandirs and now all of the sudden they are hindus.

Last thing about hatred. I did not attack hinduism. First you ask for answers and when someone writes 'em that becomes attack on hinduism. Why do you care about hinduism anyway. Sikhs did not start it. They started it ever since 1947. They killed our brothers and sisters, destroyed Darbar Sahib and distributed sweets to the army. Sikhs are being humiliated in the movies, media, radio and in everyday society, not to mention those sick Sikh jokes. they want to destroy our religion, culture and language. Now tell me who is the one with hatred. Hinduism is not even a religion. There is no definition of a hindu. people worshipping idols are called hindus, people who believe in one god like arya samaj are called hindus. people who believe in caste are called hindus. lower caste people have no rights in hindu

ism but they are also called hindus. people who believe in marriage are called hindus and those who (saneyasi sadhus) think of marriage a curse are also called hindus. there is no single definition. when did hinduism start and who started it? no one knows. where is word "hindu" written in vedas or puranas? no where. Hindus insult Sikhs but you dont seem to care. All you care about is that no one should say nothing about hinduism. and tell me what are your beliefs? Guru Ji called hindu beliefs "blindness" and "foolishness" now why should I respect blindness and foolishness. I don't need to. I respect religions not cults like hinduism. Hinduism never did anything for India. All it did was put chains of slavery around the necks of Indians for centuries. It was Sikhs who broke the chains. We freed the land so it belongs to us. It is ours and we will take it. You and your people can scream all day but nothing will stop us. We want our piece of land and live separate. Our mission is freedom not to kill hindus or muslims.

About your countries. gerogia was established because Russia collapsed. Australia was just a prison for UK and european countries. No one was interested in it. So people who were sent there, mainly criminals and prostitutes, formed a society. Sweden had long wars with denmark and norway. What I meant by my statement was that when any country was ruled by a foreign power, did anybody get killed by foreigners. Did that foreign power one day just get tired of ruling and said "okay we gonna leave now. you guys are free" Nope that never happened. I can say that Afghanistan never had anybody killed for independence but the main reason is that this country was never ruled by a foreign power. So look for countries that got tired of ruling and gave independence to the people. There might be some. Still, I would say without sacrifices people would not understand the true value of freedom.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Mkhalsa]

actually singho, afghanistan was once ruled by SIKHS! they only gained independence because the british came in and ruled them after the death of maharaja ranjit singh and successive kidnapping of his son.

[The Voice of the Voiceless]

Last thing about hatred. I did not attack hinduism. First you ask for answers and when someone writes 'em that becomes attack on hinduism. Why do you care about hinduism anyway. Sikhs did not start it. They started it ever since 1947. They killed our brothers and sisters, destroyed Darbar Sahib and distributed sweets to the army. Sikhs are being humiliated in the movies, media, radio and in everyday society, not to mention those sick Sikh jokes. they want to destroy our religion, culture and language. Now tell me who is the one with hatred. Hinduism is not even a religion. There is no definition of a hindu. people worshipping idols are called hindus, people who believe in one god like arya samaj are called hindus. people who believe in caste are called hindus. lower caste people have no rights in hinduism but they are also called hindus. people who believe in marriage are called hindus and those who (saneyasi sadhus) think of marriage a curse are also called hindus. there is no single definition. when did hinduism start and who started it? no one knows. where is word "hindu" written in vedas or puranas? no where. Hindus insult Sikhs but you dont seem to care. All you care about is that no one should say nothing about hinduism. and tell me what are your beliefs? Guru Ji called hindu beliefs "blindness" and "foolishness" now why should I respect blindness and foolishness. I don't need to. I respect reli

gions not cults like hinduism. Hinduism never did anything for India. All it did was put chains of slavery around the necks of Indians for centuries. It was Sikhs who broke the chains. We freed the land so it belongs to us. It is ours and we will take it. You and your people can scream all day but nothing will stop us. We want our piece of land and live separate. Our mission is freedom not to kill hindus or muslims.

About your countries. gerogia was established because Russia collapsed. Australia was just a prison for UK and european countries. No one was interested in it. So people who were sent there, mainly criminals and prostitutes, formed a society. Sweden had long wars with denmark and norway. What I meant by my statement was that when any country was ruled by a foreign power, did anybody get killed by foreigners. Did that foreign power one day just get tired of ruling and said "okay we gonna leave now. you guys are free" Nope that never happened. I can say that Afghanistan never had anybody killed for independence but the main reason is that this country was never ruled by a foreign power. So look for countries that got tired of ruling and gave independence to the people. There might be some. Still, I would say without sacrifices people would not understand the true value of freedom.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

You did attack hinduism. Because you criticized it without ever really knowing the basis of the religion. Power is something that is put to good use with responsibility. NO Guru was against Hinduism, because they stood by the fact that Sikhism tolerates all religions. Even Guru Gobind Singh Ji used his pens to fight before he used his sword. He acted in defence, never in offence.

" First you ask for answers and when someone writes 'em that becomes attack on hinduism."

Well I wouldn't call them

attacks on a religion if they weren't.

"Why do you care about hinduism anyway. Sikhs did not start it. They started it ever since 1947. "

Regardless of our Great Gurus background, it is understood that Sikhism respects all faiths. Following this, I only see it logical to see where other religions, such as Hinduism coincide and digress from Sikhism.

"They killed our brothers and sisters, destroyed Darbar Sahib and distributed sweets to the army. Sikhs are being humiliated in the movies, media, radio and in everyday society, not to mention those sick Sikh jokes. they want to destroy our religion, culture and language. Now tell me who is the one with hatred."

Did the Great Guru Granth Sahib state that these were precursors to hate someone for their faith? Categorizing those imbeciles that seek to defile the Sikh name as Hindus is ignorance on our part. They are people who assume they are fulfilling their own religions. People like that exist in every faith. Fanatics. Bent on armoring themselves with the word of God and going to kill in His name. Hypocrisy.

"Hinduism is not even a religion. "

And that my veer is something that goes against even the disclaimer for the posts on this board. When did you become the individual to make such a narrowminded summary of a faith followed by millions? You have a problem with those that use their religion for ill purposes. But by attacking the religion itself is ignorance. How ironic. You are showing hate and prejudice. You generalize under the word Hindu all things you hate about those who oppress us.

" There is no definition of a hindu. "

With your reasoning, there is no definition of any religion. Each religion has followers that interpret the Word of God differently. That is because the word is the most problematic creation of man. Any word that is written can be taken many ways. There are many types of Hindus, but there is only one basic scripture as is in Sikhism, Chritianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc.

Sects are permitted in all religions. That doesn't mean they don't have a religion.

You bring up caste as if the Sikh population is devoid of it. We are not. Its a cultural problem that affects even us.

"where is word "hindu" written in vedas or puranas?. no where."

Have you read the Vedas or Puranas or the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita? The word hindu is used consistently in all these scriptures, and even if they didn't, they all present a path of life towards some ultimate end.

"when did hinduism start and who started it? no one knows. "

Hinduism dates back 5000 years as evidence of vedic scripture has been reported in archeological finds in south India. It began as a pagan religion where every element of the world was organized and orchestrated by different demigods, which of course were in some way linked to a monotheistic God. Who found Hinduism? There are many poets purported to have written about the religion, most although is depicted as art as written discourse took some time to get invented. The religion got a blend of romanized thought when the Aryans invaded later in history. They are atributed alongside the south indians to be the creators of Hinduism, Bhuddism and some forms of Jainism. The religion maintained its paganism but also delved into the philosophical quest for the purpose of man. Many Sikhs know this because it interests them to learn about other faiths and not be blind to the world around them.

"Hindus insult Sikhs but you dont seem to care. "

I care about the fact that anyone who insults religion is not very well knowledged. Sikhs insult Hindus and you think that is justifiable?

There are people who follow Hinduism for the wrong reasons and people that follow Sikhism for the wrong reasons. They are the ones that represent their religions in an inappropriate way. I am not saying that Hinduism is to blame. It doesn't promote the crimes you say Hindus commit. Just like Sikhism does not promote the crimes that s

ome who claim to follow OUR religion commit.

Categorization is another form of discrimination and making things easier to deal with. Let's try the opposite. I'm not promoting Hinduism above Sikhism or Sikhism above Hinduism. I merely follow Sikhism. I cannot lay claim that my religion is better than the rest because that is fundamentally wrong in my religion. Sikhism teaches us that we have such a powerful religion that we can tolerate and learn from other faiths as well.

"All you care about is that no one should say nothing about hinduism. "

You have no right to lay claim to knowing Hinduism by what you've already written. How can you understand your own religion that teaches you to tolerate others?

"Guru Ji called hindu beliefs "blindness" and "foolishness" now why should I respect blindness and foolishness."

Guru Nanak Dev Ji said that some facets of hinduism seemed mundane to him. He respected Hinduism for its fundamental beliefs. Just because he didn't follow Hinduism and brought about the beginnings of Sikhism does not mean he did not respect the religion. He did not respect those who abused Hinduism, just as He does not respect those who abuse any religion.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not so narrowminded to dislike a group of people because of their faith. He considered everyone to be on the path of Sikhi including Hindus and Muslims. Its unfortunate you do not see the relationship between our religion and the others because they exist. Again, there are elements in Shabaads in prayers and raags that mention Hindu and Muslim poets because of their reverence of god. The Gurus were wise to note that in every religion there was a hint of Sikhism which they unravel for us in our Immortal Guru.

"I respect religions not cults like hinduism. "

I respect all religions. I respect all people and I treat them as my peers, veerji.

"Hinduism never did anything for India"

I would chance it to say that you are no theologist. Because to as

sume that a religion must accomplish some goal for the betterment of the state is a crude and daring argument. All you can say about any religion is that it is needed.

" All it did was put chains of slavery around the necks of Indians for centuries. "

Indians that followed the Hindu faith followed it for 5000 years. Hinduism still exists today. If you mean to say that these people did not realize their slavery, then it is safe to say they did not consider it slavery. So why argue that they suffered?

"It was Sikhs who broke the chains. We freed the land so it belongs to us. It is ours and we will take it. "

Again veerji, you sound immature. Since when did the possession of land mean so much given the fact that no one will ever take Sikhism away from us. Guru Gobind Singh Ji enforced this by giving us the names we all carry with pride today. I am all for Khalistan. But not because the political borders of Punjab belongs to us, but because the world will one day be Khalsa Panth without borders.

"You and your people can scream all day but nothing will stop us."

You would run through your own to acheive an ideal. When Guru Nanak Dev Ji questioned rituals and methods in Hinduism he called those foolish and blind, not Hinduism. He lost faith in the people who followed trivial pursuits. If you can state something like "nothing will stop us" and assume that "people like me" will just scream all day then you are mistaken.

A Sikh will continue to question. Even if means questioning his/her own faith. Only then will

a Sikh understand the Absolution of the Great Guru Granth Sahib and all the Gurus before It.

"Australia was just a prison for UK and european countries."

Austrailia was a British Colony like india. It won its independance because Britain relinquished its right to Austrailia. True the society was comprised of criminals initially,but how can you assume that Austrailia is full of ciriminals today?

Canada won its independance through simila

r actions of the British Government. Not a single person died for the cause.

" I can say that Afghanistan never had anybody killed for independence but the main reason is that this country was never ruled by a foreign power. "

That is a bad example. Afghanistan also was a part of Russia, occupied by soviets the Ottoman Empire and the Muslims who purged the Persians and finally now occupied by America. There is constant struggle and strife there. And they are especially not independant because of the tribal warfare, the puppet regimes and a flaying economy.

" So look for countries that got tired of ruling and gave independence to the people. There might be some. Still, I would say without sacrifices people would not understand the true value of freedom."

Alright, I guess we can agree that America won its freedom by going at the British. And then of course it emerged finally after a civil war. Today America has the highest mortality rate by guns. Children kill children at schools and its televised on tv like reality shows. America remains the most ignorant country in the world. Yet they reserve the right to the most freedoms towards an individual. They understand the Vallue of Freedom?

The value of freedom can only be understood by knowing the value of the responsibilities that come with that freedom, veerji.

No one has answered to the fact that Sikhism teaches us to respect all religions, and to not hate any person for their religious beliefs. It is also a fundamental right we all reserve.

So why do you avoid answering the question: "Is it Sikhi to hate Hinduism?"

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[smartsingh24]

"Name a country that won independence with no one getting killed."

Canada

Sweden

Austrailia

The Country of Georgia

Ur a complete <banned word filter activated> if u think those countries got independence without blood shed. For one, Canada was ruled by britain and france before it gained independence, and it was only because the british and french didn't see it as a profitable venture. There were still fights between brits and french there. Besides which, they also had to deal with animosity from american colonists who hated them during the rev. war and war of 1812, for being british. Canada lost people too. Australia was a backwards country that the british colonized and sent their soldiers. Besides which, they also killed the aboriginies or split the families up to 'civilize' them. And Georgia was absorbed into Russia during the 19th century, free for three years, and then FORCIBLY put into the USSR. THESE COUNTRIES LOST PEOPLE, AND SO DO OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WILL INCLUDE KHALISTAN. DON'T TALK IF UR GONNA SAY SOMETHING STUPID.

GURU JI WAS NOT RAISED AS A HINDU, HE WAS A SIKH FROM THE BEGINNING. THE WORD SIKH MEANS DISCIPLE OF THE GURU. GURU JI WAS NOT A HINDU, BECAUSE HE MADE SIKHISM. HE IS SIKHISM.