Matha Tekhna

[GooDandEvil]

Completely different situation. Doing Matha Thek to Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji is the same as doing Matha Thek to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and to Waheguruji.

Parents or mahapurash or bhramgiyani are not Guruji/Waheguruji.

Depends on your Avastha, as stated maharaj also used to matha tek to Mata Gujr Kaur his mother, was Maharaj wrong? No he was not.

Also High Avastha Mahapurkhs bramgiani's as you have stated are actually 1 with Vaheguru - 'Brahmgiani aap Parmeswar' Sukhmani Sahib.

There are various ways to show someone satkaar and respect.

[West London Singh]

Depends on your Avastha, as stated maharaj also used to matha tek to Mata Gujr Kaur his mother, was Maharaj wrong? No he was not.

Also High Avastha Mahapurkhs bramgiani's as you have stated are actually 1 with Vaheguru - 'Brahmgiani aap Parmeswar' Sukhmani Sahib.

There are various ways to show someone satkaar and respect.

No no no no no. We are Sikhs. Our name translates as 'learners' or 'scholars'. Thus surely we are supposed to learn some lessons from what is happening around us ? Surely when we see how the biggest threat to Sikhism today is the culture of 'deras' and 'babas' we can see what part we ourselves play in both the problem and the solution ? The fact is that we are Punjabis, and Punjabis, by nature, have difficulty in distinguishing what is in the acceptable part of the thin line and what is unacceptable. Thus, when we bow down to older citizens we are, in effect, giving the green light for our poorer cousins to bow down to older charlatans.

Let me put it another way : Imagine you've just gone on holiday to Punjab. You've landed in Delhi, been driven up to Punjab and the first thing you wanna do is do darshan in the village gurdwara. Imagine, while your suitcases etc are still in the taxi, as you approach the inside of the Gurdwara, your grandfathers brother is sitting on a manjha there. Imagine now that another fellow traveller is videoing your holiday. You say its good and proper to bow down to older citizens so naturally you will bow down to to your grandfathers brother before you go in and bow down to to your Guru. This is all on videotape and it soon ends up on youtube and then becomes a topic of a thread on this forum. What do you think we are gonna say when we see a Sikh bowing down to a fellow mortal before she bows to down to Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji ? The excuse you are gonna give is exactly the same excuse that all those 'sikhs' in Punjab who bow down to babe at deras give. They, just as you will, say that they're just showing respect, thats all.

Do you see what I'm saying ? I'm saying exactly what my parents and grandparents tought me when I ws little. They said amongst us Punjabis it is a thin line between respect and worship. They told me never to bow down and touch the feet of them or any of my relatives because that is a leftover of the Hindu culture that our forefathers left behind. You show genuine respect to your elders by speaking to them with respect, treating them with respect, and by doing things in life that grow their respect. That, is the way of the Sikh, my elders taught me. My elders taught me that the Hindus hang pictures of their elders and pray to those pictures and touching the feet of them is just an extension of that. I explained this fact on the first page of this thread. It didn't register to you people then so I doubt it will now. But the fact remains that the practice is not only totally incompatible with Sikhism it is socially harmfull. Just look what our brethren in Punjab are doing.......We need to set them the right example. Not the wrong one.

[GooDandEvil]

No no no no no. We are Sikhs. Our name translates as 'learners' or 'scholars'. Thus surely we are supposed to learn some lessons from what is happening around us ? Surely when we see how the biggest threat to Sikhism today is the culture of 'deras' and 'babas' we can see what part we ourselves play in both the problem and the solution ? The fact is that we are Punjabis, and Punjabis, by nature, have difficulty in distinguishing what is in the acceptable part of the thin line and what is unacceptable. Thus, when we bow down to older citizens we are, in effect, giving the green light for our poorer cousins to bow down to older charlatans.

Let me put it another way : Imagine you've just gone on holiday to Punjab. You've landed in Delhi, been driven up to Punjab and the first thing you wanna do is do darshan in the village gurdwara. Imagine, while your suitcases etc are still in the taxi, as you approach the inside of the Gurdwara, your grandfathers brother is sitting on a manjha there. Imagine now that another fellow traveller is videoing your holiday. You say its good and proper to bow down to older citizens so naturally you will bow down to to your grandfathers brother before you go in and bow down to to your Guru. This is all on videotape and it soon ends up on youtube and then becomes a topic of a thread on this forum. What do you think we are gonna say when we see a Sikh bowing down to a fellow mortal before she bows to down to Shri Guru Granth Sahib ji ? The excuse you are gonna give is exactly the same excuse that all those 'sikhs' in Punjab who bow down to babe at deras give. They, just as you will, say that they're just showing respect, thats all.

Do you see what I'm saying ? I'm saying exactly what my parents and grandparents tought me when I ws little. They said amongst us Punjabis it is a thin line between respect and worship. They told me never to bow down and touch the feet of them or any of my relatives because that is a leftover of the Hindu culture that our forefathers left behind. You show genuine respect to your elders by speaking to them with respect, treating them with respect, and by doing things in life that grow their respect. That, is the way of the Sikh, my elders taught me. My elders taught me that the Hindus hang pictures of their elders and pray to those pictures and touching the feet of them is just an extension of that. I explained this fact on the first page of this thread. It didn't register to you people then so I doubt it will now. But the fact remains that the practice is not only totally incompatible with Sikhism it is socially harmfull. Just look what our brethren in Punjab are doing.......We need to set them the right example. Not the wrong one.

I didn't read all your essay Singh but it's all good, water your own plant with what ever you feel's best, Sikhi is not based upon regulations.

[West London Singh]

I didn't read all your essay Singh but it's all good, water your own plant with what ever you feel's best, Sikhi is not based upon regulations.

If we put you in charge of it they'll be no Sikhi left to regulate.

Seeing as you have difficulty digesting any information that comes in a package larger than a short paragraph, let me condense what I said to you into one short sentence : You bow down to older citizens and say its just showing respect.....and the masses in Punjab bow down to babas at deras and say its just showing respect.

I won't add any more than that. I don't wanna make it hard for you. So make of that one sentence what you will.

[GooDandEvil]

If we put you in charge of it they'll be no Sikhi left to regulate.

Seeing as you have difficulty digesting any information that comes in a package larger than a short paragraph, let me condense what I said to you into one short sentence : You bow down to older citizens and say its just showing respect.....and the masses in Punjab bow down to babas at deras and say its just showing respect.

I won't add any more than that. I don't wanna make it hard for you. So make of that one sentence what you will.

lol cheerz Singh thats better, see I'm a bit slow so thanks for your patience and understanding in the matter.

Obviously fake babay need sorting out, u misunderstand what I'm trying to say, I'm not saying go around and matha tek to anyone and everyone, or even do pairi pena to everyone, you'll know yourself who has bhagtee and who hasn't,

Again thanks for the small sentances.