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Singhfauja ji we are here comparing apples and oranges here. Yes, two wrong does not make it right.. Attack on sri guru granth sahib ji maharaj, sri dasam granth sahib- systematically by teja singh bhausarias idealogy has been far more dangerous and far more damaging to panth than some manmat spread by some udasi and nirmale..sure we cannot and should not have double standards, we need to condemn them to equally in same breath for attempted in the past to bring Hinduism rituals in Gurmat. There are no grounds for anyone to justify their wrong doing either.

As i said earlier teja singh bhausaria may have been died but idea never dies..the same basis of his idea based on bubble of - paranoia insecurity, hysteria, inferiority complex was picked by missionaries and others and is still being super imposed on the panth by missionaries here- rejection of dasam granth, rejection of jaap sahib, rejection of bhai gurdas ji varan and others.

Bhausaria idea attack on Gurmat has been proven time and time again to be severely damaging to Gurmat as it attacks scriptures, create doubts within sikhs regarding this own guru...that is single handily most internal threat sikh faces..once you have attacked guru maharaj ang there is no other severe attack than that.

Pseduo missionaries and others are direct by products of bhausaria idea..it does not rocket scientist to figure that out, its pretty easy to connect the dots, they may not be related or from the same pind but they are feeding the same frenzy as teja singh bhausaria did.

Now coming to manmat by some pseduo nirmale and udasi..two things - first key thing- manmat was condemned by nirmale and udasi..in fact nirmale and udasi kicked the bad apples out from them, udasi and nirmale endorsed original singh sabha so that they can free sikh places of worship from curropt leadership..they were not against orginal singh sabha at all, in fact the sgpc granthi of darbar sahib was nirmala himself. In fact some nihangs hate nirmale for this..!!..Nirmale always tried to meditate a solution and looked at the bigger picture than small stuff.

The Nirmalas played an important part in the struggle to free Sikh places of worship from corrupt leadership. Many Nirmala mahants with their disciples participated in the many morchas , were arrested and thrown into prison. The example of Mahant Mul Singh (Kothaguru 1999: 647-49) remains the most renowned example of such participation. He was arrested many times along with his disciples for activities related to the struggle for the control of the gurdwaras. Because of his contribution to the Singh Sabha movement he was honoured with the position of head granthi of the Harimandir Sahib, being the first holder of that position after the creation of the SGPC.

- There are many Udasis who actually welcomed the Singh Sabha movement. They viewed it as an opportunity to get rid of the corrupt elements inside their own sampradaya. A good example of the role of the Udasis in the Singh Sabha movement are Pritam Das Udasi’s works published by the Khalsa Tract Society, an important organ of the Singh Sabha movement.

- The Sikh leadership’s attitude towards the Udasis changed in 1976 with the Anandpur Sahib resolution. The Udasis were declared full members of the Sikh Panth and it was assured that they could keep their practices and properties. Slowly but surely the Udasis are reintegrating the Sikh Panth by participating in major Sikh festivals and debates. They are part of the powerful Sant Samaj and are consulted on major religious issues

Now second thing is- some of anti gurmat stuff performed by some bad apples of nirmale and udasi were adddressed and fixed. In fact, last time i have checked- sgpc have full control of darbar sahib, takth sahib within punjab, and nirmale and udasi are welcome back in panth after years of demonization and demoralization by akalis, even anandpur sahib resolution (which sant jarnail singh bhindranwale, jhaaros/kharakos fight and died for) clearly talks about udasi and nirmale sikhs should be welcomed back in sikh panth

http://en.wikipedia....dpur_Resolution

(h). Taking appropriate measures for the enactment of an All India Gurdwaras Act with a view to improving the administration of the gurdwaras throughout the country and to reintegrate the traditional preaching sects of Sikhism like Udasis and Nirmalas, without in any way encroaching upon the properties of their maths.

Even if given benefit of doubt to doubtful, even if lets say just some of manmat are still being committed by nirmale and udasi, even if they are- the key thing is its not being superimposed onto the panth un alike bhausaria ideaology have done, latest dhunda/kala afghana/pseduo missionaries incident past printing birs without mangals/ragmalla incident speaks for itself.

Another reason bhausaria is highly dangerous than some of things nirmale and udasi have done in the past is bhuasaria does not have ideological frame work, bhasuaria idea is to make "sikhs" so paranoia insecure, inferior to the brink that they would take actions in extreme lengths to adddress- yes even if it means to reject dasam granth sahib, reject jaap sahib, reject bhai gurdas ji varan all in comfort of getting false sense of security that to avoid bhraminvaad, rss etc.

Some of manmats committed by nirmale were contained as nirmale have their head akhara- nirmal panchyati akhara where rules are laid out- meeting of nirmale mahants of akharas are held and also main thing is none of nirmale and udasi rituals (be it according to gurmat or contary) are NOT super imposed by any means on the panth but bhausaria idea based on human traits cannot be contained as there is no ideological frame work, it could be shared by all and being super imposed on the panth..thats why its so dangerous..!!.

Regarding caste discrimination you are simply out of depth on this one- lets not blame nirmale and udasi only, it has effected everyone sikhs from all walks of life. It's fact that its punjabi tribal thinking effected every sikhs from all walks of life for eg- akaali leaders refusing to give amrit to dalits that dr ambadekhar ji bought with him after being discrimated by hindu leaders. And Lets not forget- singh sahib discrimation against non jatt members, even to this day- in singh sabha gurdwara committe members or board of directors are all jatts, how bloody convinenet and lets not forget couples getting married within their jatha/samaprda..again how bloody convienent...lets live by actions rather than empty words that sikhs themselves are immune from caste discrimation and jatha/samparda discrimation when it comes gursikhs finding their partner. I have one of my divine brother- gyani gurdev singh ji who stayed at taksal, nirmale and with jatha singhs for (5 years in toronto) who broke all barriers of samparda and jatha discrimination and who is now married 3ho singhani despite of differences..now thats what you call breaking barriers and setting good example of without any discrimination, living life full without any insecurity/comfort zones.

Caste discrimation within sikhs sikhs whether its evident form (mabhzi sikhs getting seperate amrit) or subtle form(as it mentioned above) its there thanks to punjabi tribalism..and thats harsh truth..we need to collectively lead by examples/actions than empty words..if we cannot marry our son and daughter outside of caste or outside of punjabi tribalism then we have no reason to whine about caste discrimation..good deeds/donation/changes starts from home..!!

Panch Khalsa had good points i.e. Same Amrit sanchar for women, promoting importance of keski and no separate Amrit for "lower castes."

Osingh veer...i am sure teja singh bhausaria intially meant well had good intentions, but unfortunately list of radical changes he attempted to bought fwd in sikhi does not quantify all the good stuff he may have done in the past, he left the earth, but his diseased idea lives on in the panth.

At this moment, I am not too concerned about bhausaria list of radical changes of rejecting bani have audacity to print sri guru granth sahib without his modified version of bani as the suitation was contained. But i am actually concerned about what invokes his thinking and what led him to go extreme lenghts of super imposing the changes itself on the panth, there was no idealogy behind it - it was simple byproduct of human trait- insecure, parniao, hysteria that sikh scriptures were altered by hindus so therefore it should be modified/reprinted..!!

There are still many effected by bhausaria are mum when it comes to rejecting gurbani openly however they are still who discrimate within gurbani, there are those(wide range of missionaries among others) who only read gurbani mukhvak guru maharaj and take bhagata di bani/bhatta di swaie as pinch of salt and ignore reading it and apply that in their daily life.

At the end, bhausaria idea is damaging the panth- evidently as well as subtly systematically....my advise to my brothers- save your scriptures guys..if youths here- don't want to trust nirmale and udasi, sevapanthis don't simple - no harm done - sikhi is not confined to what sikhs or youths abroad think..it does not matter to me..for me what panth (panj takth including puratan samparda's) thinks thats what matter..because thats the foundation of the panth but do save your scripture from bhausaria thought, even slightest suggestion of rejecting gurbani, sri dasam granth- we should become one voice behind the panth (all panj takth) and vehemently defend against regardless whoever it is...people may target dhunda- hold protest and apply band aid fixes infront of him..dhunda goes away another one will come back until we address the root of the problem .!!

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