History of Taksal.

[13Mirch]

The issue arises when Udhasis and Nirmale say they are not required to take Amrit and then Udhasis bow to Sri Chand (accept him as Guru) and Nirmale try to describe Veda and other religious text as equal to Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj.

Nirmale in Guru's times were no different than other Singhs. Nirmale took Amrit from the Punj Pyare and had the same Maryada as Taksal Singhs. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj taught Baba Deep Singh ji Maharaj, who is the 2nd Jathedar of the Taksal (first being Guru Sahib himself). In Baba Deep Singh ji Maharaj's time the Nirmale were Amritdhari, they did not just teach, they were shastardhari. Nihang Singhs major role was to fight, Taksal Singhs was to teach Sikhs, and Nirmale SINGHS was to spread Sikhi far and wide. However all jathas took roles of being teachers, fighting in battles and spreading Sikhi far and wide. The Nihang Singhs, Taksal Singhs, and Nirmale Singhs were all taught by the first Jathedar of DamDami Taksal, Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Sahib ji Maharaj. Then later Baba Deep Singh ji Maharaj took on the seva as Jathedar of Taksal. Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji Maharaj another Singh who fought with his head off, also took vidiya from Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and then later became the Jathedar of Taksal as well.

Nirmale were also led by an Amritdhari Singh (Sriman Baba Sahib Singh ji Bedi) at the time of the Jathedar of the Taksal was Sant Giani Sant Singh ji.

Take for example the Naamdhari incident. Baba Ram Singh ji was a Gursikh. Shastardhari, Amritdhari and fully followed rehat. But what do "his" followers do now? Kirpan is off, bow to fake Gurus, and disrespect Gurbani. If they truly followed Bhai Ram Singh ji, then you would not know the difference between a Singh and Naamdharis.

The udhasis and Nirmale (Mostly these to groups) of today, along with some self claimed Nihang Singhs and Taksal Singhs are trying to suck Sikhs into Hinduism.

Why are Sikhs today so against Nirmale. It is because they have forgotten their roots of being Amritdhari Singhs.

Didn't they originally have a white bana?

[N30S1NGH]

i m not sure who planted the idea in some that nirmale don't take amrit..they do take amrit- thats mandatory. In fact all five sikhs who came back from baneras took amrit from panj pyares- received naam amrit and everything and then they were put under guidance from panj pyares, from two pyares actual nirmale samparda started...they all take amrit but at times they don't keep four kakari rehit with them at all times (5th one is off course kesh and they are all keshadhari) because of their missionary/blending aim within sadhu culture and do parchar of Gurmat Sidhant...also another reason for this is because they have their own rehat maryada -Sudharm Marg Granth, i haven't read it myself but i love to get copy of it myself- if someone has a copy online please holla...i do have long thesis on them gifted to me for my own research. i will share 3rd party references posted in thesis if requires.

Please read more about nirmale regarding this thread opened by 13mirch veer ji:

http://www.sikhsanga...ardas-of-sikhi/

[N30S1NGH]

If we look at the history deeply- Nirmale orginally meant for scholarship, spread gurmat vidya/parchar far and far out but according to the times/need they also have pro-actively taken sant-khalsa role equally in the panth for eg- sant khalsa bhramgyani soormas like- baba sahib singh bedi, baba maharaj singh ji nurangabad, baba bir singh ji nurangabad, baba khuda singh ji maharaj.

It's all according to need and time, just like when you see damdami taksal lineage you have jathedars you have sant who were fully shant and did parchar but according to need you have soorma;s like baba deep singh maharaj, baba gurbakash singh, sant sunder singh bhindranwale, sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale, sant mohan singh bhindranwale, sant kartar singh ji bhindranwale, sant jarnail singh bhindranwale, sant baba thakur singh ji.

[N30S1NGH]

Nirmale sadhuya da satkar by panthic nihang jathebandiyas, very mutual and warm relationship between samparda's- taksal, nihangs , udasi, sevapanthis, nirmale alike.no issues panthic issues on large level..most of issues like jhatka, mool mantar, growth of anti-ragmalla sentiments in panthic circle, kakars started just 100 years ago ..!!

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[singhfauja]

N30S1NGH Ji, you stated that issues like mool-mantar, ragmala, etc started just 100 years - as if everyone before thought alike. This is a fairy tale my brother.

Can you provide any proof of the above statements? There is plenty of proof to the contrary - in fact many 19th century Udasees and Nirmalas considered moolmantar up to "Gurparsad" and also did not recite Ragmala.

As for moolmantar, please see "Fareedkoti Tikka" which espouses the philosophy of Nirmala/Udaasee enfluenced samperdais and deras. The Fareedkoti Tikka clearly states that moolmantar is up to "Gurparsad", and there literally dozens and dozens original signatures by our Guru Sahibans with this version of the moolmantar. Are we going to blame our Gurus for shortening moolmantar now?

For Ragmala, please study the views of Giani Chanda Singh (Bhai Mani Singh Taksal), Sadhu Govind Singh (Nirmala-Udasee Scholar), Mahan Kavi Santokh Singh (Nirmala Scholar), Giani Gian Singh (Nirmala Scholar), and Udasi Harnam Das (Akali Nihang Nurang Singh), Sant Baba Attar Singh Ji and Sant Teja Singh Ji of Mastuana as they all considered Ragmala extraneous and completed bhog on Mundavani.

Regardless of their views, they still had mutual respect and never tainted each other as we do nowadays because we don't agree on the same "maryada".

I have no intentions to debate these topics, but seriously, I think our nation is now mature enough that they deserve to know the facts that these issues were not created by the British, or the RSS, but have existed for centuries. The same is true about our daily minimum Nitnem, and the kakkars which were originally only referred simply as "tre-mudra."

There have been Nirmalas, Udasees, and Nihangs that have recited moolmantar up to "Gurparsad" and there have been others who recited up to "Hosee Bhee Sach", and the same for Ragmala.

I think its about time we stop dividing the Panth by promoting such myths. The Panth is NOT black and white, it has never been that way. Let's stop characterizing it as such.

[Singh559]

Well said Singhfauja.

[N30S1NGH]

Regardless of their views, they still had mutual respect and never tainted each other as we do nowadays because we don't agree on the same "maryada".

You bought very interesting point ...Thats exactly what i meant..sorry for the confusion..just to re-iterate yes there were many difference of opinions in many areas (ragmalla/mool mantar etc) in Gurmat in the past pre-100 year ago or ago but there were no issues..why? It's simple because samparda's kept the difference of opinions to themselves and when it came to panthic circle- they all came together accepted panthic maryada. No the problem is not some difference of opinions between jatha's or samparda's as there were always difference of opinion between samparda (like rara sahib/hoti mardan all beleive in mool mantar up to gurparsad and taksal/nanaksar/nihang beleives in up to nanak hosi bhi sach) but they seem to go quite well to the point that its seamless to an outsider to even suggest that there could be differences.

The problem is not difference of opinion on things but rather the problem lies at "super imposing" one set of belief on rest of the panth. This thought of "super imposing" actually started with teja singh bhausaria -actual seed of division/hostility was put by teja singh bhausaria when he start "openly" attacking by introducing ridiculous reforms and super impose his revisionist theory on the panth ..he is very first one to cross the line- he obviously confused his tat khalsa revisionist thought with panthic maryada..his mindset is alive and kicking as they - person dies but his ideas never dies..obviously his ideas/mindset was planted in wider people mindset not limited to any jatha or samparda as its basis is based on basic human nature of - complete hysteria, paranoia, insecurity, inferiority complex as opposed to any ideological framework. As soon you super impose major elements of personal jatha/samparda maryada on the panth, there would be outrage, rebuttal, disunity, rhetoric speech back and forth, hostility..!!

At the end, only way fwd with the unity within panth is that we must separate panthic maryada with personal one in our mind and treat it seperate. We must not mix them together..we must make sure they are NOT on a clash course..we need to keep them separate and, accept panthic maryada when engaging in panthic circle- which panthic maryada? I constitute all five takth (five pillars of Sikhism maryada as panthic maryada as all jathedars of all five takth sahib take most important panthic decisions...and i m sure many senior gurmukhs feels the same way..here are some few examples of many- bhai jeevan singh ji spent many years in patna sahib, he never criticize elements in patna sahib maryada (atleast not openly) which he didn't agree with..now thats what you call unity ...same goes with sant gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale when he clearly said that all though he does not agree with physical arti-arta but in the same breath he cautions to all that we should never criticize takth sahiba- sri hazoor sahib maryada...again thats a sign of clear unity..!!

[13Mirch]

Out of interest did Baba Kartar Singh Ji, Baba Jarnail Singh Ji and Baba Mohan Singh Ji ever "clash?" Many people make it out to be a conflict of interests which lead to Taksal splitting and demean one side or another.

[Only five]

What a pretty picture is being painted of groups that went and go against Gurbani and rehat. The people that started imposing their views on Sikhs are the udhasis when they distort Gurbani and go against rehat without any care. What bigger crime can any group commit than purposely distorting Gurbani when Satguru speaks about Sri Chand? Who brought in the idols into Sri Harmandir Sahib? It was the udhasis. Who is saying there is nothing special about Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj as every religious book should be studied and gain knowledge from it, Gurbani shoud not be given any special treatment? Its the udhasis.

There are many enemies of the Khalsa Panth and there one goal is to dilude Sikhi. Teja Singh Bhausaria is long gone and his thinking went with him. New aged thinkers like Sarbjit Singh Dhunda are here and they have similar ideas to Teja Singh, but don't hold his thinking. Singhs don't support Dhunda, so he is not a real issue. Teja Singh Bhausaria is not an issue, simply because he does not exist. Ask yourself then who is the issue from the inside?

Today people that want to dilude Sikhi, they are distorting the institutions started by the Gurus themselves. One and most important is DamDami Taksal because of its teachings are concrete and they are set up to teaching Sikhi to Sikhs. Sikhs don't listen to udhasis because they are corrupt. However, how do you bring merit back to the Udhasis? Tell people that Taksal Jathedars respected them, took lessons from them like learning sanskrit, and hide the parts where the Taksal Jathedars call Udhasis Gurbani distortors among other things. Sant Baba Sundar Singh ji Maharaj was taught Gurbani by his own father early on, but those that want to bring Sikhi down will not tell you this part and just highlight that Sant ji was taught sanskrit by Udhasis. Udhasis are being promoted because they follow the order of the Hindus over Sikh teachings. Yet they are very good at hiding their true feelings.

Another group that is being sucked into the Hindu order are the young "Nihang" Singhs of the west. They rely more on anger and so called historical records, than their Gurus Bani to understand what is accept. Won't label all ofthem with the same brush, but many of these youth are lost and the fake Nihang groups give them a sense of belonging and acceptance. The Nihang Singhs learned Gursikhi from Taksal Singhs in the past and today many of these fake Nihang jathas have created much hate between the two jathas to divide and conquer.

[Singh559]

Another thing people need to wrap around their head is that just because Nihang Singh Jathebandi and even Damdami Taksal was started by Guru Gobind SIngh Ji - it doesn't make it immune from corruption and adopting non-Sikh non-Khalsa traits

In the 1920s Nihang Singhs defended udasees who installed murtian and dancing ladies in our Darbar Sahibs and during the Sikh Raaj a few Nihang Singhs killed innocent people - something uncharacteristic of the Khalsa. Manmat and anti-Sikh forces (suppressors and those who dilute the truth) were also there during the Sikh Raj. I'd actually say they were there since Guru Nanak Dev Ji refused to wear the janeau.

These people with the idea suppressing Gurbani - sachai are doing in different forms that make it hard for a person without the proper lenses to see.

Today we have Dhumma who regularly meets with udhasees and other sanatan-mat people and supports them and matha teks to worldly leaders like Badal.

All of our institutions have been corrupted - some by maya and some by sanatan-mat individuals who have drifted from the way of the Khalsa.