The Path to a Sikh Renaissance

[Kira]

Only way a Sikh Renaissance has any chance of flourishing is if people bother to start prachar of all the Granths. Katha of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is good and amazing but lets not ignore our Dasam Pita's other 2 treasures in the mix. 

Firstly we need to start helping people learn Gurmukhi, we have too many pseudo-scholars that barely touch the texts but love to preach, if you haven't even begun the journey there's no point in speaking about it.  Secondly we need to get all the so called Prachariks in check, many of them are simply spreading misinformation (either because they learnt from the wrong source or for more malicious reason, no one can be sure). Thirdly we need proper representatives, Most if not all of the SGPC haven't left Punjab and probably aren't even educated properly, That itself isn't a bad thing but the true Education is also where they lack, which is far above. None of them have even begun to even look at Gurbani, their knowledge is knee deep and shallow. 

We also need to change the Panthic Maryada, like stat. the SRM is a mess right now, it's disgusting it lets Sikhs get by with 3 banis of the 5 a day and has torn up Chaupai Sahib and Rehrass. We need proper Scholars who have knowledge of history and the Rehitnamas that are available to rectify it. The Maryada of Damdami Taksal and Buddha Dal should also be looked at and a resolution should be found within the Jathas so they can work on a Panthic stage too.

The Jathedhars of the 5 Takhats should be Pooran Singhs in full bana and Amritdhari, While having knowledge of all of the texts they should also be versed in Politics and science. They need better control over the Sikh populous in foreign lands. For example during the gay rights marriage act in Canada, the Jathadhar of Akaal Takhat forbid the sikhs from voting in favor for it but they did it anyways. Disregarding what any one view is on that topic, the fact that Sikhs openly defied the court of Sikhi and then were more or less fine is a disgrace. 

[TejS]

5 hours ago, Kira said:

Only way a Sikh Renaissance has any chance of flourishing is if people bother to start prachar of all the Granths. Katha of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is good and amazing but lets not ignore our Dasam Pita's other 2 treasures in the mix. 

Firstly we need to start helping people learn Gurmukhi, we have too many pseudo-scholars that barely touch the texts but love to preach, if you haven't even begun the journey there's no point in speaking about it.  Secondly we need to get all the so called Prachariks in check, many of them are simply spreading misinformation (either because they learnt from the wrong source or for more malicious reason, no one can be sure). Thirdly we need proper representatives, Most if not all of the SGPC haven't left Punjab and probably aren't even educated properly, That itself isn't a bad thing but the true Education is also where they lack, which is far above. None of them have even begun to even look at Gurbani, their knowledge is knee deep and shallow. 

We also need to change the Panthic Maryada, like stat. the SRM is a mess right now, it's disgusting it lets Sikhs get by with 3 banis of the 5 a day and has torn up Chaupai Sahib and Rehrass. We need proper Scholars who have knowledge of history and the Rehitnamas that are available to rectify it. The Maryada of Damdami Taksal and Buddha Dal should also be looked at and a resolution should be found within the Jathas so they can work on a Panthic stage too.

The Jathedhars of the 5 Takhats should be Pooran Singhs in full bana and Amritdhari, While having knowledge of all of the texts they should also be versed in Politics and science. They need better control over the Sikh populous in foreign lands. For example during the gay rights marriage act in Canada, the Jathadhar of Akaal Takhat forbid the sikhs from voting in favor for it but they did it anyways. Disregarding what any one view is on that topic, the fact that Sikhs openly defied the court of Sikhi and then were more or less fine is a disgrace. 

I agree with absolutely everything you have said (even regarding the Dasam Granth, albeit it does have some controversial mentionings, it also shows the inferiority of Hindu practices, and is also extremely uplifting, perhaps something our astray Sikh youth could use).

I'd like to add these points to the list on page 1 if you will allow.

[Kira]

10 minutes ago, TejS said:

I agree with absolutely everything you have said (even regarding the Dasam Granth, albeit it does have some controversial mentionings, it also shows the inferiority of Hindu practices, and is also extremely uplifting, perhaps something our astray Sikh youth could use).

I'd like to add these points to the list on page 1 if you will allow.

go for it bro. But what sort of meanings do you find controversial in Dasam Granth?

[TejS]

6 hours ago, Kira said:

go for it bro. But what sort of meanings do you find controversial in Dasam Granth?

Well there are things like saying women aren't to be trusted, consumption of intoxicants and then performing fornication under their influence - things like these which are clearly not the words of our tenth Guru. 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

23 minutes ago, TejS said:

Well there are things like saying women aren't to be trusted, consumption of intoxicants and then performing fornication under their influence - things like these which are clearly not the words of our tenth Guru. 

Do you have direct references? Or which bani you are referring to? Also if you are referring to Chritropankhyan, that talks about much deeper stuff then women.

[Kira]

21 minutes ago, TejS said:

Well there are things like saying women aren't to be trusted, consumption of intoxicants and then performing fornication under their influence - things like these which are clearly not the words of our tenth Guru. 

Not true at all man. Dasam Bani shows how woman can be morally upright and amazing warriors in Chandi Charitar, If you're referring to Sri Charitropakhyan its a referral to human psychology.  The worst of all humanity is exposed in there, the worst of the worst woman can't  be trusted but the same is said of their men. The Charitar contain stories about men, woman and even Devtas showing the flaws in their character. 

Guru Sahib never said Sikhs should do it, the bani was written from the point of view of a King and his minister, the King is named Chitar Singh. Guru Sahib himself distanced himself from it in that respect. 

[TejS]

1 hour ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Do you have direct references? Or which bani you are referring to? Also if you are referring to Chritropankhyan, that talks about much deeper stuff then women.

 

Listen I'm not a Dasam Granth opponent. In fact, I think certain parts should be read and applied and it should be seen in Gurudwaras, but the sexually explicit nature of some of the tales, albeit describing the downfall lead by kaam, are far too explicit for something a Guru would write, and with the Dasam Granth being lost after the Battle of Kup, it certainly raises valid suspicion that perhaps some of the writings aren't of Guru Gobind Singh's.

And yes I was talking about Sri Charitropakhyan. 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

8 minutes ago, TejS said:

Listen I'm not a Dasam Granth opponent. In fact, I think certain parts should be read and applied, but the sexuallly explicit nature of some of the tales, albeit describing the downfall lead by kaam, is far too explicit for something a Guru would write, and with the Dasam Granth being lost after the Battle of Kup, it certainly raises valid suspicion that perhaps some of the writings aren't of Guru Gobind Singh's.

And yes I was talking about Sri Charitropakhyan. 

Look, I can tell that you aren't exactly Anti-Dasam Granth from your other posts. Charitopakhyan has as much to do with women as Kharag Singh, (Hindu named Singh in Dasam Granth), has to do with Sikh people.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

50 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Do you have direct references? Or which bani you are referring to? Also if you are referring to Chritropankhyan, that talks about much deeper stuff then women.

 

25 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Look, I can tell that you aren't exactly Anti-Dasam Granth from your other posts. Charitopakhyan has as much to do with women as Kharag Singh, (Hindu named Singh in Dasam Granth), has to do with Sikh people.

To whoever is confused, tell me what you are confused about, so I can attempt to help you.

[TejS]

2 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Look, I can tell that you aren't exactly Anti-Dasam Granth from your other posts. Charitopakhyan has as much to do with women as Kharag Singh, (Hindu named Singh in Dasam Granth), has to do with Sikh people.

I'll admit that I haven't understood the Dasam Granth in its entirety, so perhaps I should first read through it, understand it from all perspectives, and I would then be in a better position on offering my opinion of it.

But I agree with you that the Sri Charitopakhyan is not only critiquing women, but also men. It's just the wording, which in other parts, such as the tales, can get quite vulgar, and my initial response of certain parts being deemed inappropriate was based off of that. I will, however, definitely make time to go through the Dasam Granth in its entirety, and not only glaze over the controversial passages.